/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12085317
The equivalent of Bitcoin in 2011

>>12085317
a shitcoin that's hardly being used in any market let alone the darkweb, soon to be outlawed on most exchanges, and no that won't make it's price go up, fucking brainlets.

>>12085317
It's a fungible store of value. Basically, digital cash. It's what bitcoin was supposed to be.
>>12085347
Based retard.

>>12085347
>Coin is not used
>Will be banned
why would it be banned if its not used and poses no threat? Is your father also your uncle?

>>12085363
>store of value
I am financially ruined

>>12085399
Buy high, sell low.

>>12085317

more Bitcoin than Bitcoin

>>12085363
>muh fungibility

same retarded reddit-tier talking points

>>12085386
>these are mutually exclusive

you really are a magnificently stupid cunt aren't you?

>>12085317
The ultimate privacy coin. Monero now has bulletproofs and hardware/mobile wallet support which will allow its adoption to grow massively. The only real competitor at this point is zcash which has crippling problems like the founders tax, non mandatory privacy, ASIC centralization, trusted setup, and the “zcash is traceable enough to track criminals” quote.

>>12085455
>retarded reddit-tier talking points
>fungibility
Pick one, brainlet-anon.

>>12085415
no you're right just because it used to be a few cents a couple years ago you're not a retard at all if you lost 85%+ holding

>>12085486

based anime-tities poster

>>12085508
All late adopters and hodlfags got BTFO. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be loading up on XMR right now.

>>12085576
>market clearly dumping and prices rapidly dropping

>thinking you should be loading up on anything besides Tether for the next month at least

>>12085504
Good lord, this is absolutely a reddit-tier argument, loads of things are "fungible" but that alone doesn't automatically give it high value retard

bitcoin is valuable because it's the original public commodity ledger with the highest network effect backed by the highest computational proof of work, at the time it was conveniently used by the first mainstream darknet markets but that actually hindered it's long term adoption into financial institutions

also do you really think something that drops 90% in value in less than a year will be used as a "store of value" by rich entities who tax evade "because it's private"? fuck me you're retarded

>>12085603
I am buying $100 of xmr every weekend instead of smoking. If it doesn’t make me wealthy at least i’ll be a bit more healthy

>>12085317
Only crypto that, by default, uses private transactions. Doesn't use a fuckload of RAM to create a transaction either like Zcash or other zk-snarks coins. Zk-starks might be implemented in the future which is a trustless version of zk-snarks. It has a lower supply than Bitcoin with a tail emission that ensures it isn't exclusively deflationary that way hoarding will be minimized which limits economic stagnation.

>>12085844
And yet it still isn't fungible which means it isn't near as useful as a currency as an actual dollar. It also isn't stable, but neither is XMR so that's a con for both of them.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter if you buy xmr now at 40dollars or in a month for 25. In a decade monero will be worth over 10k per coin

>>12086203
You can buy almost twice as much at 25 though, so you will be twice as rich at 10k

>>12085317
shitcoin for drug dealers and terrorists. you must be a complete brainlet to actually think this is a good investment

>>12086239
Sorry I was implying you dollar cost average your way throughout this bear market. If you will only make a few investments then yes try to buy as low as possible.

>>12085603
My point is to have cash on hand for whatever you think is a good entry. I seriously don't think we'll see $10 XMR again but I could be wrong.
>>12085844
>loads of things are "fungible"
Sure, but Monero is the best fungible crypto, which makes it unique as a digital store of value. As for the volatility, give it a few years to stabilize. Nothing has been completely spared from the bubble we were in. That isn't a reflection on Monero but crypto in general. At least Monero doesn't fail as cash like Bitcoin.

>>12085486
Can you expand on the zcash issue? I generally mine zcash but auto exchange it and I’m curious how valid the FUD is around it/if I should hold it instead of taking profits in BTC.

I was a Monero shill but changed my mind once I realized it was just another shitcoin.

There is no way to detect if coins are lost on the chain due to bugs.

It will always have a reason for existing as long as Bitcoin exists because it’s the only thing you can use to do anonymous transactions or pay people without exposing your net worth. There’s a difference between a currency being used versus its ability to go up in value as a speculative investment. I have no incentive to hoard Monero because it doesn’t have a capped supply. I can just buy/sell Monero when I need it.

Since no one will invest in it since Bitcoin will always be a superior investment, and it can only exist if Bitcoin exists, then there’s no reason for it to explode in value (especially indepently from Bitcoin).

>>12085844
To be fair, any potential store of value coin has a shot even with obscene volatility. It’s just a matter of sticking around long enough that people start taking it for granted that the thing is worth something. Give it 20-30 years when the Zoomers are unironically running things

>>12086280
By default Zcash only uses t addresses which are transparent like a standard bitcoin address, trusted setup is how zk-snarks works it relies you to trust the implementation of the initial founders without the ability to verify, and also equihash coins are mined almost exclusively by ASICs now, although ASIC resistance is really a meme so I take it the person you are replying to is a GPU miner and just hates them on principle since it makes their rigs unprofitable, the "zcash is traceable" quote was made by the developers in regards to criminals using zcash. It's why you can find it on coinbase. They only use taddresses. It's basically in the clear to be just as traceable as bitcoin, if not more.

>>12086314
>No reason to hoard due to uncapped supply
That's unironically a good thing for it's long term use as a currency. Hoarding leads to economic stagnation and a mariad of other problems. See here. https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/5-reasons-to-worry-about-deflation/

>>12086314
Tail emission != Unlimited emission

>>12086444
to have economic stagnation you first need an economy. the only markets that will ever use monero are drug dealers and terrorists. your shitcoin is doomed from the get go

>>12086445
Tail emission is
0.3 Xmr per minute
18 Xmr an hour
432 Xmr per day
157680 per year

>>12086506
So like 1% inflation in a year?

>>12086506
When the tail emission kicks in, that will be 0.87% of inflation in the first year, and that percentage will drop lower every year. Gold has a higher inflationrate through mining.

>>12086570
Less if you take into account people forgetting password to their valets and coins being lost

>>12086497
The only markets that don't stand to benefit are the ones where individuals don't mind making their net worth public record. I don't know of many people who are that into transparency. I'm neither a drug dealer nor a terrorist and see it's the only obvious choice for crypto since it actually makes my transactions private. If I send 20 dollars to my buddy to cover dinner, that's not anybody's business but our own.

Even brainlets can see why that's important. Imagine if your visa bill was public record. Or your savings account balance. That would just be fucking retarded.

>>12086614
you really don't get it do you? privacy is not the same as untraceability. Everyone wants privacy, even banks and paypal offers you privacy. Untraceability from the government is something that only criminals want

>>12086650
Or people that know that their government is fucking corrupt to the core.

>>12086031
Based and oxygenpilled.

>>12086673
yes sure thing my ancap brainlet, you only tax evade because the guberment is corrupt, if it wasn't for that you would definitely pay taxes amirite?

>>12086650
>Untraceability from the government is something that only criminals want

Fuck you man. I know I want it. Imo this is something every citizen should want.

>>12086739
Citizens want privacy not untraceability. The bank clerks don't know that you are buying dragon dildos every time you use your debit card, its all in the computers. The only way you get checked is if you do something illegal

>>12086690
Yes i would if i would see that my money goes into roads or healthcare or other quality of life improvements. Where i lived those money went into fueling wars, buying yachts for oligarkhs and doing useless shit like forgiving other country’s debts. While regular people live in poverty with shitty roads, shitty healthcare and shitty “law enforcements”

>>12086739
>Citizens want privacy not untraceability
Says you. I say you are full of shit. I say if citizens knew they could get it they would want it.

>>12086650
In a decentralized world, you cannot have privacy and fungibility without also having untraceability. In general, the point of decentralization is to take the power of your wealth out of the hands of the few. If you are opposed to that, why are you even in crypto?

>>12086802
>>12086857
you guys are really underestimating the gov power. If it was just a bunch of ancap tards tax evading their few grands and some brainlets buying drugs they would probably not do much. When north koreans and isis starts using your shitcoin they are gonna pump and dump it to hell, they are gonna make it so volatile not even a degenerate gambler would want to touch it

>>12086650
How retarted are you? Its estimated 10% of the world's wealth is hidden in offshore accounts. Let that sink in and let yourself realize these rich fucks are sure as hell interested in untraceability

>>12086778
>The bank clerks don't know that you are buying dragon dildos every time you use your debit card, its all in the computers.
What kind of argument is this? Why would anyone trust a bank?

>>12086975
exactly you dumbass. banks already offer full privacy to their rich clients, monero doesn't offer anything to them

>>12087012
Yes you're right, a government couldn't figure out who's account it is based on a banks privacy policy. Why do you think shell corporations exist?

>>12087012
That has been true for a long time but it’s becoming harder and harder to hide money. Even Swiss banks have passed kyc laws so you can’t hide money.

>>12087012
>what are the panama papers
sure, nothing came out of it but its enough to spook a significant portion of them

>>12086908
90% of XMR's liquidity is due to Korea. Tf you going on about man

>>12087082
>>12087081
>>12087080
even if they did use it to make untracaeble transfers, why would they HOLD it to monero? they would simply change it back to usd or other coin/currency as soon as the transfer came. Also, how exactly would someone convert 1 mil to monero without any trail? the only way to be completely untraceable is to buy locally which if you have a lot of money is completely retarded to even try it

Welp, going right back to the AmDOGE threads like 5 years ago, nobody would listen, so like fuck am I trying to convince you cucks again.

PPC, VTC, VRC, NMC, BCN. Then wait 5 years. Or yaknow, don't.

>>12087120
The point in holding it as Monero is so their networth would be known only by them. Transferring back into USD would entirely defeat the purpose. There would be no point in transferring to other coins, because those other coins don't offer a benefit and are suffer from all the same pitfalls.

You don't convert 1 mil to monero without a trail. But it's not illegal to buy 1 million worth of crypto, so why is this even an issue?

>>12087187
to buy 1 mil in crypto you have to complete KYC. you can't escape the trail

>>12087219
bullshit. message someone on bitcointalk and you've tens of millions at your disposal. where do you think drug dealers cash out?

>>12087235
>where do you think drug dealers cash out?
are you a drug dealer? do you have connections to a network of criminals? if not, you are probably gonna get knifed on the street if you try to buy 1 million crypto from some pajeet on the street

>>12087219
Irrelevant unless you are trying to put in dirty money. In which case entrypoint through an exchange is just fucking stupid. That's like trying to use dirty money to buy any other regulated asset.

If you wanna do that you go through localxmr or something of that sort. Localxmr has i2p and tor sites as well for those that don't want their IP exposed.

>>12087289
if your money are legal and didn't do anything criminal then from who are you trying to hide? the exchange that you bought the crypto to convert to monero already knows how much you spend, how is that any different from just keeping them in the exchange or just putting them in your wallet?

>>12087262
why the hell would anyone do... near literally anything on the damn street in this day and age?

>>12087311
You don't have to want to hide from anyone to want your funds to be private. Having your entire net worth be public domain is just fucking retarded. Having some of your money accidentally get blacklisted because some idiot bought coke with it 10 years ago is also retarded. The fact you don't understand this makes me really wonder if you are just playing the devil's advocate.

As far as the exchange goes, that's irrelevant. Once your Monero leave the exchange, that money is gone to everyone except you. That exchange knows how much you initially spent. Beyond that they know nothing. Maybe you bought a car, maybe you traded that monero for cash elsewhere, maybe you lost access to your wallet. Who knows? Only you. That's the entire fucking point.

>>12087360
Pretty sure that anon is a FED/Psyop

>>12087395
Would explain the poor level of FUD

>>12085317
its our only hope to fight the Jews.

>>12087395
This. Nobody is actually that retarded.

>>12087311
You are a fucking retard, holy fuck.

>>12087311
Please post screenshot of your bank account right now or your post is irrelevantl. You have nothing to hide right anon?

>>12087080
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8
bank secrecy is a meme. management of trusts obfuscate ownership over multiple jurisdictions. currently these services are available only to the rich due to overhead costs and paying for protection. however if one could manage trusts/shell corp etc via smart contracts...these services would be widely available.
https://youtu.be/NV5ubkGQUes?t=65

>>12087711
This

imo you should always invest like the majority of libertarians (you have to ignore the prepper types). they always somehow find a way to make money. monero seems like a good libertarian investment, but they don't really seem to give a shit about it from what I can tell. in the crypto space, they're all still tied up in bitcoin, but I think even a lot of those guys are moving to silver.

>>12086596
not only that: way more than .87% of wallets will be lost per year - either because normies buy in and lose their passphrases or because people die unexpectedly and a "random sheet of gibberish" will be thrown out with the rest of their belongings
muh inflation is really one of the most transparent pseudo-arguments against XMR, because anyone with a three-digit-IQ can see that it is there to counteract naturally occuring deflation, not to continuously inflate.

>>12089019
It's about stock/flow ratio. Even btc is technically "inflationary" until 2140 or whatever as more coins are mined every year. If monero has a set nominal amount of coins mined every block, say 10 or whatever it is, as time passes this "inflation" becomes increasingly insignificant in proportion to total supply. This is why BTC/XMR that are mathematically set at a certain nominal coin inflation rate are actually even better than gold as a store of value, as gold has generally a 1.5% inflation rate compounding annually as technology improves efficiency of mining gold.

So as time goes on as long as the block reward remains constant, inflation will taper off exponentially as the newly mined coins are increasingly insignificant compared to existing supply.

>>12088390
Who needs to use trusts to obfuscate ownership when you could just hold monero?

>>12086570
Percentage-wise:

Every year of tail emission, the percent drops because the amount per year stays the same, while total (theoretical) supply grows.

So each year you get the same amount of new XMR, but less than the previous year percentage-wise.

>>12085347
>>12086251
Based retards.

this piece of shit doesn't mine correctly

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin-private/

lol keep on dreaming if you think monero is (((their))) coin

>>12085486
>zcash is traceable enough to track criminals
What is this about? Unless you're talking about just tracking people's network activity, zk-SNARKs should make it impossible to trace transactions unless you've made mathematical discoveries worthy of more awards than anyone's ever received.

>>12087012
The US and other countries can still freeze assets if you they decide that you are a "criminal". Monero offers privacy, untraceability and full control over your finances no matter where you are.

>>12086031
That's the spirit. I remember a guy in 2016 who used cardboard for soles instead of buying new shoes. There's probably going to be another good year or two, starting now, for anyone who doesn't own 1000xmr to sleep in their car/office/shed, subsisting off rice and beans while accumulating the real bitcoin.

>>12086314
>There is no way to detect if coins are lost on the chain due to bugs.
>t. brainlet
It's trivial to verify that a transaction is valid. If you couldn't verify that, the whole system wouldn't make sense, lol.

>>12092839
Don’t help the brainlets

>>12092839
Get Zooko'd.

>>12093088
Nice meme

>>12092839
Due to the vast majority of zcash being public its possible through blockchain analysis.
Now even though the amount of resources and $$$$ required to even start thinking of this as an option are massive it doesnt rule it out.
Zcash would be much better if it was all private, not a choice therefor making you a defacto suspect the second you turn privacy on.
Add to this the infamoud zooko tweet which should instantly put your head in red alert mode.
+current trusted setup is fucked up. Their video doesnt prove jack shit.

>>12093182
But seriously, I can't believe he publicly said what he did. Anyway, as long as the z-transactions remain so paltry then they are subject to temporal analysis and deanonymization. zk-SNARKS themselves are cool, minus the trusted setup, but the rest of Zcash as an organization is pretty shitty.
>>12093361
Exactly.

>>12087311
Oh look FBIanon is back. Hey we all understand you have a job to do - since XMR isn't traceable, the only way for the feds to combat it is to spread disinformation. But look man, the game is up. It's a lost cause. We're going back to the days when the government didn't know everything about everyone all the time. Guess what? That's a good thing for freedom.

>>12093426
>The Zerocoin Electric Coin Company LLC

>>12085330
/thread

>>12093782
>/thread
/thread

Bump as a daily reminder that paid operatives post here.

>>12087311
are u stupid or what?

Monero 40 bucks holy shit. This the Best Buy ?

>>12092839
zk-snarks requires you to trust that it was actually implemented correct, you can't verify this. This makes zk-snarks a weak link, top that off with t-addresses being the default (and only method used by exchanges), and you have a recipe for a "privacy as a meme" coin

>>12097156
The answer is yes. It is obvious. Believe what you will.

Eternal bump for the best coin, Monero. Thank you BASED Riccardo!

>>12085317
governments fear it. common-folk need it. the rich will hate it at first, but come around in time.
it's the closest thing to ideal money we have today based on John Nash's assertion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_money
but don't listen to me, my first purchase was sub $2 like what could I know i'm a faggot who's kinda tipsy on one beer rn

>>12100173
please don't misinterpret this as an endorsement for ztrash either.
here's a quick redpill on why z-cash is trash:
lead developer tweets this garbage, basically confirming they aren't trying to actually achieve true privacy/fungibility: https://mobile.twitter.com/zooko/status/863202798883577856?lang=en
next, you have to look into the origin of Z-cash. Now let me say, there isn't anything wrong with the zk-snark protocol, _if_ you can implement it from the ground up, standalone and trustless. Zcash has a trusted setup, where there are a set of "inception keys" that have the ability to essentially do whatever the fuck they want (i.e. print more zcash). the developers totally "deleted" those keys, i'm sure. "but anon, you can just audit the circulating supply like other coins?" -- nope. not only do we have a trusted set up which can be abused, we'd only know by the time it's too late. there is zero way to audit the circulating supply of z-cash unlike monero.
lastly, z-cash has optional privacy. do you know what the implications are from a privacy standpoint? basically, they allow users to optionally weaken their anonymity set by having "public send" or whatever the fuck it's called. christ this market is retarded.
Monero is actual digital cash, that works today, that is trustless, decentralized, funded altruistically by the community, like christ if you're not all in on this until tail-emission (2020-2021) then honestly you deserve to be poor.
>inb4 butthurt z-cash plebs, fact-check anything I just said

>>12100226
look at their weasley fuck of a lead-dev try to backpedal on that twitter thread, too. makes me sick. greedy, spineless weasel who doesn't care about privacy in the slightest:
"I _don't_ mean weakening security...I mean that a secure protocol layer is compatible with good law enforcement."
https://mobile.twitter.com/zooko/status/863516385426755585
like, listen to this idealist doorknob? how does one differentiate "Good law enforcement" from bad? human nature is fallible no matter what title you give a man. decentralized protocols are not. fucking end of story.
and this has been your red pill of the day, screencap this for 2021 lols :^)

Bought at 35, sold at 380. Looking to start rebuyi g now. Hoping it'll continue getting cheaper

>>12100173
>>12100226
>>12100262
Based. I agree 100%. The good news is I think Monero is winning on the PR side of things at least vs. Zcash. Seriously *nobody* that isn't Zooko himself or a serious bagholder can take it seriously at this point. Not after his comments and everything else that sucks about Zcash.

>>12095824
there are "paid operatives" for amazon reviews for fucks sake. if you cannot think for yourself and do research to differentiate, for yourself, what is real and what is not, then you DO NOT DESERVE TO MAKE IT.
you can learn a whole variety of information from a lot of smart people but you know what? at the end of the day, it's all biased: as soon as any information has been formatted, packaged, presented in front of you for convenient consumption, YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. You will, at best, get close to the truth. Fuck that. Find the truth for yourself. Sit down for a week and learn anything you want, /biz/brothers. that one beer turned into two and I'm drunk but I speak scripture channeled from the deities themselves. PLEASE look into the amount of money being poured into blockchain analysis, too. bitcoin is actively being turned into a honeypot for any "bad" activity, but they'll be letting small fish get away with anything and using parallel construction (look this up on wikipedia faggot, it's used by law enforcement every day), they'll fry big fish.
Monero is the ONLY way to reclaim your financial freedom to the fullest degree, at this time.

>>12100320
Is there an alternative to monero right now?
We all know zcash is bullshit. Except for that what do you have? Some shitty bottom barrel garbage like xvg/dero.
The only problem monero has right now is ease of use, much like bitcoin had in 2012/2013 and it still has to some degree.

Need to get some intuitive UI thing out there which makes it easy for every halfwit to use it properly.

>>12100385
>Is there an alternative to monero right now?
Not really when you look at the entire package of what Monero offers in terms of fungibility and trustlessness. Monero isn't perfect but it's clearly the best of the bunch for what it sets out to do. I don't think the current GUI is that bad. I personally think mainstream adoption is a meme though so don't go by me on that.

>>12100385
>dero
shut your mouth kiddo one of the dero devs is literally one of the contributors to the bulletproofs whitepaper

You can't go wrong with Nerva if youre looking for small cap gems in the privacy coins. You can find it on tradeogre. Best of money and masari. Cpu only mining and pool resistant

>>12085317
Literal cuck coin

>>12101383
By they same respect one of the dero devs was arrested on isis terrorist charges and money laundering. What’s your fucking point?

>>12085844
>loads of things are "fungible"
Oh yeah name three.

>>12085317
Double digit shitcoin which will be banned from exchanges and it’s terrible investment. I warned you in january too.

>>12100385
ryo currency

>>12100385
Horizen is the true successor to Monero and Zcash with none of the drawbacks. Pay no attention to the 51% attack of a few months ago. It could happen to anyone and anyway it's been patched.

>>12101383
>>12101439
>>12101815
>>12101856
>>12101884
>>12102064
Based literal retards.

>>12086347
>when the Zoomers are unironically running things
... into the ground.

>>12102894
Monero may or not have a better way to do private transactions than horizen zk-snarks but for the price and investment opportunity zen is well more attractive, not to mention the passive income from secure and supernodes.

>>12097454
>zk-snarks requires you to trust that it was actually implemented correct, you can't verify this.
That's true, this is a weak link. But it's also kinda really unlikely that every single person involved in the key generation ceremony colluded. Literally if a single one of those people actually did everything correctly and deleted their "toxic waste", ZCash is secure.
>top that off with t-addresses being the default (and only method used by exchanges)
This kinda sucks, but you can just send your balance to a z-address once, and it's like perfect money laundering. Or if you do something like WannaCry or any other shady shit, people deposit to your z-address, you can funnel that into t-addresses and cash out, no one will be able to tell you're the extorter.

>>12085415
unironically this is actually good coded advice turned into a meme by discord whales
consider doing this and still making a profit, what would you call it - shorting

Imagine buying MONERO instead of MASARI in 2018!

XD

It will probably be banned from all the big exchanges because of money laundering potential.
Thats just the sad fact...

>>12103658

monero is too good for this world

>>12103658
Ban something and often its price goes up. If it's banned it's because people want to make use of its features, I don't see how it can be stopped.

>>12103658
ironically the ban will be its ultimate test:
if it actually *is* a decentralized currency, it will moon. if its not, it will die.

It’s a scam. CN is designed to be intentionally complex so it’s hard to optimize unlike sha which can be mathematically proven that it’s optimized . The core teams kicks people off the network every 6 months under the guise of stopping ASICs. In reality they are mad other people have optimized their miners and they aren’t getting a huge advantage. Speaking out against monero makes you a heretic. Anyone who actually does graduate level study in PoW will ell you CN is a blantant scam to enrich the core team. Don’t think for 1 second they are holding their monero. They are too smart for that and dump for btc and fiat. Seriously, don’t invest. Privacy coins are good in theory, not this one. Not zcash either. CN coins have a huge history of being scams. It’s a fork of a blatant scam. Even after the “clean” start it’s common knowledge it was only mined by a small handful of people who realized the released miner was shit and they could mine dozens of times more effectively. No one here is going to listen to this. On paper it’s a great fucking project. In reality it’s a giant scam

>>12103563
>MASARI
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2159114.msg21613111#msg21613111

>>12104127
>It’s a fork of a blatant scam.
You don't think Satoshi is behind BCN?

>>12104135
It’s possible but I don’t think so. BCN is a straight up scam though. I don’t think that’s really a contested issue

>>12104131
At least masari admitted to its tiny premine...

>>12104141
>>12104135
>>12104127

Cryptonight is purposefully complex to thwart ASICs, you are confusing the crippled miner inherited from bytecoin, I started mining Monero since it was 2 weeks old and the network at 10k hashrate, I fucking watched the early dev team and they are some of the most honorable people in crypto, releasing each optimization to the public when they could have mined for themselves, I'm talking about people that are not even public in the Monero community anymore like NoodleDoodle.

Whoever designed Cryptonote had their ears to the ground in the early days and corrected many shortcomings in the Bitcoin design.

I don't think it was Satoshi but he may have helped.

Put in your predictions how low it will drop
I say 10$

>>12104155
Monero doesn’t actually give a shit about ASICs. It’s a cover. It’s a boogie man to point a finger at. They don’t want the completion mining their own coin. CN was originally made take advantage of people who don’t understand PoW. You’re just spewing the standard monero narrative. I’m sure you’ve been mining it a while. But this is not a new trick they just started pulling. It’s been tainted since day 1

turtlecoin is way better than monero, more secure, more developers, more community, more everything.
just bought more on Tradesatoshi, just in case flips monero soon

>>12104155
This is coming from someone who solo mined blocks! I get it. You want to protect your nest egg. But it is not a pure project

>>12104167
>>12104171

Maybe cryptonight was a scam, it is extremely ddos-prone, but if you were correct they wouldn't be trying to replace the PoW with randomjs.

>>12104178
Chu is a good guy I believe. He is actually one of the few people involved in the project I somewhat trust. The noethers are straight scammers imo. I also am skeptical it’ll ever happen. We’ll see.

>>12104127
Thank you for this information I’ll definitely consider it the next time I buy 100 xmr

>>12089196
In the real world, ownership is tied to a physical location;anywhere as long as it is somewhere.

>>12104294

yeah. don't buy monero.

>>12104127
>>12104141
>>12104167
>>12104171
Anon can you link a few technical papers demonstrating your points about CN?

Last week i was thinking about picking up some monero since its so cheap right now, and literally 20 seconds after thinking about it i drove past a parked car with a monero sticker stuck on the back window.
I'm taking this as a buy signal. I feel that monero is going the same route as btc. I had a similar experience with btc back in 2014.

Not sure whether to buy more LINK or start buying some XMR. I already own some ZEN.

I see no reason not to go all in Monero now

>>12104127
Cryptonight complexity has nothing to do with making difficult miners but making it difficult to make profitable ASIC hardware. Your post makes no sense because you seem to misunderstand this premise that it has nothing to do with mining software. Monero has been fully open source from day one so if someone out there in the early days had some super secret optimized miner that they only shared with a select few people then that's basically on everyone else for not realizing the same optimizations would have been staring them right in the face in the open source code.
>Anyone who actually does graduate level study in PoW will ell you CN is a blantant scam to enrich the core team.
What?
>CN coins have a huge history of being scams. It’s a fork of a blatant scam.
Bytecoin is a scam so Monero is a scam? Nice logic.
>Even after the “clean” start it’s common knowledge it was only mined by a small handful of people who realized the released miner was shit and they could mine dozens of times more effectively.
It's common knowledge that it's always been open source so anyone could make any miner they want. If I made a super-optimized miner today that gave me 5x my normal CN hashpower I'm not obligated to share it with anyone if I don't want to.
>>12104167
>Monero doesn’t actually give a shit about ASICs. It’s a cover. It’s a boogie man to point a finger at.
If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't be dedicated to breaking them every 6 months.

>>12105275
them forking every 6 months to change the algo only helps to lessen the security of the network.


really ASICs are fine.

>>12104400
He can’t do that because he has no fucking clue what he’s talking about

>>12105299
Really, they’re mostly not. There aren’t enough distributors of these ASICS for everyone to have like GPUs. ASICS aren’t even programmable, so if you buy one and it becomes obsolete whether in terms of hashing power or algorithm, you can’t resell that piece of shit.

>>12105299
It depends on what your definition of security is. Is it more secure to have a higher hashrate but have the network in the hands of a few ASIC manufacturers or to brick ASICs and keep a lower hashrate distributed around the world? The "hardfork every 6 months" strategy is not sustainable but that's where randomJS comes in. Monero has never been ASIC friendly so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that this is how the devs want to handle things.

>>12105436
I just read the github for randomJS, can you give me a better understanding of what it is? Doesn’t monero use CN? Why would they switch to Blake2b + randomJS

>>12105634
random js is abandoned and we are working on RandomX

>>12105698
Source?

>>12105436
I think one of the real issues of having a lower hashrate is https://www.crypto51.app/ .

Usually, requiring an ASIC puts a higher barrier of entry for potential attackers. It doesn't guarantee absolute security as can be seen in the above charts, though. And I like mining being decentralized. The above chart is still a problem that has to be solved, though. Maybe through something like what DigiByte does with multi-algo / multi-shield

THE KING

>>12106188

>>12104865
>lready own some ZEN.
Owning anything besides LINK XMR BTC ETH

>>12104752
Bullish

how long to make it with 100 XMR

if papermoney is gone monero will hit 100 trillion

I like monero very much. The only problem i see atm is the chain size. Hopefully it will get solved. It is one of the most active projects and has a great community.

>>12106459
i just hope they aren't as lazy as btc core cucks and won't do shit about it until scalability is an issue.

>>12106459
>>12106529
Bulletproofs reduces tx size by 80% where you been?

>>12106739
>>12106529
>>12106459

and monero has dynamic blocksizes

blocksize limits wont ever be a problem

>>12106739
Yes, I know about BP. But maybe monero can adopt MW later.

>>12106965

it will probably go with a version zk-starks (without the trusted-setup), but the tech is not there yet

>>12106459
>>12106529
Monero's protocol actually scales great thanks to the dynamic blocksize. Limitations on storage capacity and data throughput aren't really issues with Monero per se. As time goes on, hopefully this is less of an issue as storage becomes cheaper and data flows faster. Bulletproofs has already trimmed transaction sizes by a good deal as well.

SIEG HEIL MONERO WILL DESTROY ALL SCAMMERS!!!

>>12105275
You have no idea what you are talking about. Monero forks have nothing to do with ASICs.

>>12103038
The problem though is, decentralized crypto is supposed to be trustless. A trusted setup defeats the purpose, and if devs didn't handle waste properly all coins implementing zk-snarks are insecure.

The infrequent use of z-addresses makes using them suspect and funds sent from z-addresses to t-addresses will be watched. T-addresses being public can be linked back to individual users in the same way bitcoin addresses can be. Z-addresses may make the link slightly harder, but the presence of t-addresses still makes traceability a likely possibility.

>>12103658
Unironically, this is the same argument that's been made about bitcoin since its inception.

>>12105392
Not to mention that ASIC's can easily be blocked or taxed on import as "crypto mining equipment" where as a GPU cannot. Although more efficient specialized hardware isn't a bad thing in principle because it increases network security and binds users to a specific algo, meaning they won't just jump around via Nicehash (also results in coins being less likely to be 51% by places like nicehash).

>>12107128
Yeah, they're discussing that (zk-starks) and moving to a DAG from a blockchain.

>>12103563
Maybe after their main members stop to waste a lot of time joking and mocking shitcoins like Linda and Electronero, start to effectively help the project with ideas, making their reddit and bitcointalk thread more active, spreading more awareness about it, then maybe it will be really worth to possess Masari.

t. bagholder of really heavy Masaris

>>12107501
it cannot be banned
what kind of mindset do you even have? It's because of people like you that the world goes to shit.

>no gibs? ok I just migrate to another country
>the gubaman bans shit? ok I just use tether

You're a waste of space

RINGCT is weak privacy and this coin is part of the crypto hype train. People that say it's like digital cash are fucking retarded and bought in fucking january.

This video explains it all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s3EbSKDA3o

>>12108283
Learn to read you fucking brainlet. That's the exact point I was making.

>>12108365
>This video explains it all:
This video is a commercial for Zcash. Zcash is shit for a number of reasons. Nobody is arguing that RingCT is the be all and end all of privacy (it's obfuscation) but at least Monero isn't Zcash.