/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12068689
shoot yourself first you disgusting commie

My god...are employers even human?

>>12068702
Sure, after you can justify pic related.

You can't just kill the rich and expect things to improve. All that does is create a new cohort of rich.
With crypto you need to structure an economy such that, by design, there are limits on how much it can be exploited. In a well structured economy psychopaths should constantly be furious that their attempts to game the system are restricted.
We would know we were doing things right if there was a constant baying from the top end of town about how profoundly unfair things were. When the top end is quiet it means they're looting and getting away with it.

>>12068708
who the fuck cares that some dumb bitch HR intern decided to make a meme picture for her workplace

>>12068722
>its just one instance
Its systemic, you blind nigger: >>12055380

>>12068689
Executions will be carried out according the demands of the people. But excesses should be avoided.

The proletarian dictatorship will make no excuses for the terror.

>>12068733
I agree wholeheartedly.

>>12068732
Racism is a means to control the proletariat. Rid yourself of this 14th century trash ideology.

>>12068732
>getting this upset by silly workplace bullshit
you are autistic. How fucking destroyed would society be if lazy retards like you actually shot up the entire middle and upper class. Just move to Africa if that's what you want

>>12068747
>saying nigger makes you racist
>>>/reddit/

>>12068689
>expecting wagies to act like entrepreneurs
the person that made the board is retarded

>>12068757
Words have meaning. Take responsibility for the ideology your language promotes

>>12068771
meaning is ambiguous, brainlet. it's why no one truly understands anyone else

>>12068755
>middle and upper class
This is a relativizing and subjective way of categorizing classes (also: wrong). The objective categories relate people's positions to the means of production (factories, land, etc.): those who own them are capitalists, those who don't are wagies. It doesn't matter if some wagies earn bigger wages than others since ultimately both are in servitude to the capitalist.

>>12068771
That's not how ideology works, you stupid retard. Read Althusser, Zizek, Adorno, you moralistic faggot.

>>12068783
Imagine being so fucking autistic that you think language is subjective and that the conclusion you have come to because you can’t comminucate, is that it must be normal that nobody understand each other

Lmao

How the fuck did you even find a computer aren’t people this autistic usually also blind. I mean I can tell you’re obviously like 16 but still

>>12068804
i can communicate with people fine. meaning is ambiguous, not language, brainlet

>>12068796
Holy fuck I can't even imagine being poor and lazy enough to fantasize about shooting the upper class while also being this smug. Only disgusting communists are capable of this. You are subhuman and you will never be successful at anything meaningful in your life.

>>12068815
HAHAHAHAHAHA

OMG

>meaning is ambiguous, not language

My bad you are clearly 14.

>>12068823
Just to clarify: do you think that Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Goldman Sachs, etc. had positive and meaningful contribution to humanity?

>>12068689

Agreed. Bear in mind of course that we don't have "Capitalism" in the sense of an actual free market system of voluntary & non-coercive trade between free, rational actors. We have (((Capitalism))) in which a class (of whom a large majority belong to a specific ethno-religious group Oy vey) exert violent & coercive control over all aspects of economic life via unfair taxes, manipulation of markets, bailing out of specific plutocrats (like the bankers) when they fuck up. So normie fags larping as AnCaps can gtfo if they defend the current system. Bicker about what the solution to the problem is (Libertarianisn of either a left or right variety, since authoritarian communism is just the same system we have currently in a modified form ), but anyone not seeing the current system as a corrupt & indefensible farce is just a straight up NPC.

>>12068842
>i can't understand what someone else is saying therefore, i will insult their intelligence
thanks for proving my point, retard.

>>12068844
Yes. They contributed more to humanity than you would in a million lifetimes.

I find it funny that on a board nominally dedicated to decentralized currency platforms there are so many people who's ideology requires a centrally controlled government operating a centrally controlled currency to steal from the productive members of society.
>We'll just make a commiecoin
Nobody capable of commerce wants to deal with commies, you are all insufferable faggots that think your own weakness is somehow justification for organized theft.

>>12068823
haha, a bootlicker!

look at him! look at him and laugh!

>the ruling classes will never dispense tendies to you because you are nothing but a wagie, who will never receive even close to full compensation for your labor beyond the amount necessary to ensure your survival and thus continued slavery

>>12068844
how retarded do you have to be to ask this question unironically?

Damn I wish the working class in the US would wake the fuck up before we all have to start dancing like clowns for the amusement of the ruling class in order to survive

>>12068861
read a history book for fuck’s sake

>>12068711

Yeah, this. Has to be made impossible to create a situation of centralised control at the technological & systemic level. Ultimately, the real issue is centralised power in the hands of a few people that can leverage it for further gains at the expense of everyone else.

>>12068894
I personally employ 17 people you stupid faggot. You honestly think your contribution to society is higher than Bill Gates'? You wouldn't even have the ability to write this bullshit if he never existed.

>>12068907
>being this retarded

>>12068907

Not an argument. Which history book? By who & whom?

>>12068915

I hope the 17 of them get together and hang you one day

>>12068861
>Bear in mind of course that we don't have "Capitalism" in the sense of an actual free market system of voluntary & non-coercive trade between free, rational actors.
Capitalism has changed a lot throughout its 300-400 years of history -- but which socioeconomic system didn't? I would like to point out the fact that whenever people claim that somehow capitalism was 'corrupted from the outside' they totally idealize and misrepresent what the system actually is.

(Free) market competition is the main motor force behind monopolization, of mergers of industry and banks -- things that libertarians rightly perceive as being shitty. A truly free competitive economy by its own nature produces big winners, winners that are faced with a choice of becoming even bigger at all costs (be it criminality -- as if "legality" wasn't defined by capitalists under capitalism) or let your main competitor do the same.

(Pic related is a good source for providing data for these claims.)

>(((Capitalism))) in which a class (of whom a large majority belong to a specific ethno-religious group Oy vey)
Even if this was true (it is not, but I don't with to argue along this ideological line) what difference would it make if pic in OP was made by a kike or an Irish capitalist? You either realize that it is not gender/ethnicity/age/etc. which determines choices made in a SYSTEM but the STRUCTURES governing that very system or you remain on the level of boot licking liberals and illiterate alt-right faggots.

>>12068915
you are afraid of getting owned so hard lmao

pay close attention to which class says what, wagies

>>12068949
>structures exist without people implementing them
brainlet

>>12068823
>be Russia circa 1910s or China circa 1940s
>live in third world semi-feudal shithole with capitalists owning everything
>"Don't kill me. Without job creators, you'll all live like apes."
>kill capitalists anyway
>country massively improves in life expectancy, industrialization, infant mortality, and food consumption because it turns out capitalists are actually useless parasites and you really can manage your economy without them
>capitalism is restored in 1990s with Friedmanite free-market policies that promise a utopia
>save for a few tiny meme states like Estonia, people starve, life sucks, no job security, rising death rates, and Pew polls show most people want socialism back

We're even seeing the same thing in America now. The capitalists won, and now everything's decreasing: life expectancy, wages, job security, and free time.

Sooner or later people are going to realize what's objcetively in their self interest.

>>12068689

Why don't you just buy linkies Anon then you can stop being a whiny pussy after you get some money.

>>12068771
Please go back to plebbit

>>12068959
The soviet union was total fucking ass under communism. If you think that's what we should strive for then you are hopeless.

>>12068866
>Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Goldman Sachs contributed to humanity
Let's see, anon!
>Jeff Bezos, the wealthiest man in the history of the human race
>could abolish poverty globally with 25% of his money
>runs literal slave farms
>millions are losing their jobs thanks to him to be reemployed under worst conditions

>Bill Gates
>halted the development of IT by 30 years
>inb4 you defend their predatory capitalist practices and the joke of an OS CIA-friendly Windows is

>Steve Chops
>let's put up nets to catch suicidal workers jumping out from the windows of my slave factories in china
>3/4th of the "innovation" put inside an iPhone was developed by the state

>defending Goldman Sachs on biz
How does boot taste like?

>>12068933
Eric Hobsbawm’s ages trilogy
Neoliberalism by David Harvey
The Long Century by Giovanni Arighi
Long waves of capitalist development by Ernest Mandel
The Origin of Capitalism by Wood

notice I didn’t even include any marx so you wouldn’t shit your diapies

>>12068949
Good post, and I'd like to add a paragraph from that book
>We must now try to sum up, to draw together the threads of what has been said above on the subject of imperialism. Imperialism emerged as the development and direct continuation of the fundamental characteristics of capitalism in general. But capitalism only became capitalist imperialism at a definite and very high stage of its development, when certain of its fundamental characteristics began to change into their opposites, when the features of the epoch of transition from capitalism to a higher social and economic system had taken shape and revealed themselves in all spheres. Economically, the main thing in this process is the displacement of capitalist free competition by capitalist monopoly. Free competition is the basic feature of capitalism, and of commodity production generally; monopoly is the exact opposite of free competition, but we have seen the latter being transformed into monopoly before our eyes, creating large-scale industry and forcing out small industry, replacing large-scale by still larger-scale industry, and carrying concentration of production and capital to the point where out of it has grown and is growing monopoly: cartels, syndicates and trusts, and merging with them, the capital of a dozen or so banks, which manipulate thousands of millions. At the same time the monopolies, which have grown out of free competition, do not eliminate the latter, but exist above it and alongside it, and thereby give rise to a number of very acute, intense antagonisms, frictions and conflicts. Monopoly is the transition from capitalism to a higher system.

>>12068915
it's afraid

>>12068959
This isn't even remotely accurate...

Without intervention from the West the Soviets would have collapsed. And this isn't just WWII aid, this pre WWII. The Soviets bent over backwards for American cock.

You might be the most retarded person here today.

>>12068991
>could abolish poverty globally with 25% of his money
Maybe for a year or two before they go broke again. Very few people are poor because of isolated instances of bad luck. A majority of them are poor due to a long sequences of bad decisions. You are one of these people. You're just dumb as fuck, and that's why you will be poor and bitter for the rest of your life. Bezos could personally hand you a million dollars and you'd just waste it.

>>12069016
yeah because the soviets were totally given aid during the cold war

also every brainlet knows that the soviets did the heavy lifting during WWII for the allies lol

go back to high school

>>12068711
>>12068711
This. And BTW, capitalism can function with corporations managed in a decetralised way. Communism yields too much power to States and Traditional capitalism yields too much to Corporations/Gov.

It's possible to reinvent capitalism with a truely decentralised manner. It's just that such a model don't exist now.

BTW, have you ever wondered why in forest there are no "manager" trees, yet it function beautifully. So as your brain. Only thing special about human-based entities is incentivisation as our primary motivation. Design it right and you have a blue print to start a change.

Start small and create a decentrally-managed (liquid democracy / horizon state / Aragon whatever) and sustainable eco-village with some form of spirituality at its core. That's my dream. DESSECO Anon !

>>12068958
I didn't say that. What I'm trying to get through to you is that the objective structures of a given socio-economic system determines the choices people can make, are stimulated to, or discouraged to do.

To use an analogy: you can't play by the rules of chess or poker when you are playing Monopoly with your friends. I mean... you could, but then you'd lose. The structure of the game rewards certain attitudes while punishing others.

>>12069036
I said pre WWII.

>>12069028
>Bezos could personally hand you a million dollars and you'd just waste it.
Not that guy but are you fucking serious? You sure that's not your ideology talking?

>>12069028
this is possibly the most retarded post i have ever read

>implying that “abolishing poverty” means just dropping coins out of zeppelins, which you capitalists seem to picture when you think of philanthropy

>>12068949

Oh, we never had Capitalism. Like functioning Marxist-Leninist Communism, it's a utopian ideal that's never been implemented.

>>12068949
>Free market competition is main motivator behind monopolisation

Nope. The state monopoly on the use of violence precedes it. Plutocrats can then buy politicians to further their interests. It might be impossible (as in, maybe humans are just too deeply hardwired for hierarchy), but without coercion large, subsidised monopolies just don't remain. Eg, the bank bailouts - if they had to play by the same rules as a small business & fail if they fuck up, leaner & better competitors (like say blockchain powered Mutual societies with crowd sourced decision making) would eat them for breakfast. Instead, they get a free pass.

>even if it was true (re Jews)

Oh it is though, that's just publicly available information. The 1% in the US are disproportionately Jewish, by an incredible margin. Don't make me go all /pol/ and drop red pill charts.

And it's entirely relevant to mention it btw. Class dynamics have a lot to do with racial in-group dynamics & are intrinsically linked to race & culture. Ruling classes are almost never the same ethnic group as the ruled, see India, Egypt, Britain etc. Race & class just go hand in hand. Kin selection and preference are a large part of what creates class in the first place. Then factor religious groups with an intrinsic contempt for outsiders, and it's easy to see how Jews wind up as a large part of the ruling class. But no, an Irish capitalist can be equally a problem - but statistically, they're not as likely to be Irish.

>>12069036
B-but america and britain landed on some beach somewhere and killed like, 7000 german troops. That's actually how the nazis were defeated.

>>12068915
writing a language isn't as hard as you think faggot

>>12069016
>intervention from the West
You mean when 12+ capitalist countries invaded Russia after it had a wagie revolution and the capitalists failed?

If I were a capitalist like >>12068915
I'd be afraid at the creativity and resoluteness of the wagies waging a revolution, because it is almost as if these wagies would rather fucking die in battle than to suffer a minute more of the "enlightened" capitalist regime.

>>12069137
You might be retarded too. Do you kiddie commies not know how to read? I said,
>pre WWII

>>12068894
>being this much of a angry commie poorcuck

You're too dumb to live off the grid and your family was too dumb to amass land to live off. You should be thankful for the opportunity of employment. Besides, why do you losers keep thinking being a wagie is forever? You can always start your own business with savings. Everyone works for someone, we all live in societies, we need each other for different things. Basics of life that edgy teenager twitter commies like you don't understand. Back to rebbet faggot.

>>12069059
>The state monopoly on the use of violence precedes [private monopolies]
One of capitalism's basic line of contradiction has always been between the private sphere and the state: the state limits the freedom of the private sphere, sure, but without without the capitalist state the private sphere could not function since the rights to private property have to be guaranteed for a capitalist economy, and this can not be done without what you correctly call a monopoly on violence.

(If you actually cared to look up the history of private property you'd find the very same: in order to be able to say that "this high yielding farm is my property and these are my slaves" you had to have protection, enforcement, etc. -- violence.)

>le 1% jooz
Pic related. Capitalism is actually controlled by the Irish. Take the green pill, blind nigger.

>>12069151
The Russian Civil war was between 1918 and 1921 -- before WWII --, you fat and illiterate american.

>>12069044
>the objective structures of a given socio-economic system determines the choices people can make, are stimulated to, or discouraged to do
you literally just did
brainlet

>>12068991
Brainlet teenagers will never understand that some problems can't be dealt with by just throwing cash at them. You think if you pump 50 trillion dollars in Africa that it'll be a utopia in 20 years? No it fucking won't. Africa will still be a shithole, because it's full of fucking Africans. God you zoomers are fucking adorable with the dumb shit you say, "abolish global poverty with ~20bn dollars" nigger are you fucking dumb?

I'll tell you something for free, sometimes, the path to improvement of life needs not money itself, but things which are expensively funded by money. For instance, don't throw cash at an education system, research ways to teach better on an individual basis.

>>12069044
>The structure of the game
someone had to make the game, retard. that was the point.

>>12069185
>it is clever people™ who become the ruling class
Imagine being this sheltered.
>be thankful that capitalists can exploit you
Thanks, massa'!
>why do you losers keep thinking being a wagie is forever
Because 80% of new enterprises fail in their first four years, because 99% of the world's population dies as either unemployed, wagie, or pensioner after being a lifelong wagie.
>You can always start your own business with savings.
Are you retarded? Savings from what? Inheritance from whom? What the fuck do you think banks are for? You take a gamble with them and you either lose your house immediately or in 10 years due to the next global economic crisis.

The days of your ignorant kind are numbered.

>>12069249
"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living."

>>12069276
>waaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa life isn't fair
if you say so.
you sound like a defeated faggot

>>12069205
I don't quite understand, are you legitimately retarded? Surely you understand the Russian Civil War and the Revolution, but you seem to lack a firm grasp of the interwar period of Russia and the Soviet State.

Do you actually know how Russia grew during that time period? Do you know those 5 year plans were actually carried out?

>"Lenin, Leon Trotsky, and Joseph Stalin all opted for technological America. One of the momentous and almost forgotten chapters of modern history concerns the Bolsheviks’ fierce determination between the two world wars to adopt the industrial legacy of the United States"


https://www.americanheritage.com/content/how-america-helped-build-soviet-machine

I'll give you the TLDR, Soviets only survived by importing American industry built upon capitalism. It's an interesting article you probably should read. Capitalism built the USSR.

Next time you might want to comprehend the history you attempt to defend.

>>12069276
just googled that quote, because i'd never heard it. fucking karl marx, top fucking kek.

>>12069044
So what wonderful rules do you have in mind that will have everyone become a massive winner forever, leaving boomer humor and dancing for corporate a distant memory?

>>12069260
Your parents are dumb losers and you're even worse. There's no use, you were destined to be an angry, bitter poorcuck. Back to rebbit, loser. Don't bring us down with your depressing sad life LMAO.

>>12069334
http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

>>12069335
>Don't bring us down with your depressing sad life LMAO.
The funny thing about this: /biz/ is one of the most depressed boards out there. It's basically the board for hopeless millennials who see through the charade of working for a capitalist so they sit down at the roulette table and hope desperately that they hit the jack pot (1:100....0 chance).

If anything communists bring hope countering the delusions of the average /biz/fag: nope, you are not going to "make it," your virtual sonic coins are not going to save you from wagie life, but there is still hope: overthrowing the existing order.

Remember these words when we enter the next economic crisis.

>>12069335
kek, porky is angry and scared

>>12069335
the most npc comment I've seen all day

>>12069377
No rebuttal on how capitalism built the USSR during the interwar period?

Hows it feel to get blown the FUCK out? You literally post on a system of tubes stemming from capitalism and the free market of America and yet bash it? On top of not even understanding your chosen ideology only survived by sucking Henry Ford's dick.

>>12069418
no Marxist that I know of ever said communism was an alternative to capitalism but a successor like capitalism to feudalism

>>12069288
What the fuck is this even supposed to prove? Yes, The USSR imported a great deal of technology from the more advanced western nations. They were not "interventions". By the same logic I could argue that America would have starved if it wasn't for Soviet grain.
Trade happens, get over it kiddo.

>>12069418
I'm sorry, but I have an inbuilt tolerance level to burger ideology. Somehow the "we shat out the world by ourselves" from pic related is not something I am willing to spend time on.

Feel free to "rub it in" by pointing out how "MURRICA" has "WON AGAIN" and start clapping and chanting the three letter abbreviation of your country's name.

>>12069455
So you mean to tell me that the "successor" ideology to capitalism was so good, that it had to rely on capitalism to make it work under Lenin's Marxism.

And even then after the interwar period, the ideology was so good that it only,
>leaned heavily on the massive industrial base that they had by then established with American help

>>12069498
>So you mean to tell me that capitalism, the "successor" to Feudalism was so good, that it had to rely on Feudalism to make it work under Georgian era Britain?

>>12069490
Not argument. Yeah, you lost. I'm sorry you lost all credibility when the proud Leninist went and personally sucked off Henry Ford with their trade delegation.

>>12069488
Prove?

Its simple. It goes beyond trade. Did you even read the article? It spells out how the USSR was a creation of capitalism due to their reliance on industry, people, education, and technology derived from America.

>>12069498
>So you mean to tell me that the "successor" ideology to capitalism was so good, that it had to rely on capitalism to make it work under Lenin's Marxism.
Yes, that's literally what he's saying. Capitalist development in Russia was way behind capitalist development in western Europe, so when the workers took over they needed to catch up by importing more advanced machinery and techniques. I don't understand what it is you don't understand.

>>12069038
You should look for real life utopias, most of them failed.

>>12069523
Theres a pretty clear evolution from the feudal society of England into the mercantile empire it became.

>>12069539
If that was the case, then why did the USSR collapse?

>>12069558
What does this have to do with what we're talking about?

>>12069574
explain gravity

>>12069574
So logically, if Marxism-Lenin and the ensuing ideologies of the USSR were the successors to capitalism...

Why do you guys not recognize that capitalism built the USSR initially

And

How do account for the collapse during the Cold War, if the economic system was superior?

>>12069610
Magnets probably.

>gommie factor still trying to recruit
>still doesn't realize he is enslaved to ideology as much as the capitalists
Take the indigo pill, faggot. Wake up and realize you're being controlled by ideas that you didn't even come up with.

>>12069081
>proves himself right by showing how brainwashed the americans are
If you actually read about WW2 you would know that the Nazis were defeated when they ran out of oil and had to go to Russia to get the oil. When the Russians circled them, they were out of oil and they lost the eastern front. Because they lost the eastern front they also lost the western front. Prior to this, it is well known that the Ruskies sent their troops relentlessly. The war couldn't have been won without either the burgers or the vodkas but given that the US only sold weapons and arms before Pearl Harbor, the ruskies did the heavy work and when the US meddled into this, they were fighting a weakened Nazi army that was out of oil and had no ubermensch left to spare on the frontlines. Oh also, Italy happened haha.

>>12068771
Your language promotes the ideaology of a nagging housewife. Take responsibility for over 70% of all divorce.

Lol who of you here has more than 2m net worth let's flex on these clowns

>>12069038
Somehow I missed this post.
>capitalism can function with corporations managed in a decetralised way
This would be a rather hilarious and predictable experiment:
>[somehow (kek) we get to the point where] every monopoly, banking mega-cartel, media mogulate, international industrial megacorporation decides to stop competing for a moment and they voluntarily decide to restructure themselves out of the goodness of their hearts
>they decide that from now on they don't need no evil state and they can decide in a decentralized way who gets which plot of land, factory
>the experiment ends with certain capitalist aligned with others, hiring private militias and enforcing their rule
TL;DR: private property literally can not be upheld without violence in a competitive economy

>It's possible to reinvent capitalism with a truely decentralised manner
You do realize that societies throughout human history didn't change through "reinvention" but through great upheavals, revolutions, wars, and so on? You can invent anything on paper but how will you convince your good daddy capitalists to implement your dreams? They will not listen to your childish and moralistic weeping that is for sure.

>BTW, have you ever wondered why in forest there are no "manager" trees, yet it function beautifully.
Society, like, dude, totally, it's like trees, man. Like, pass that joint, dude!

China still exists. Just like the soviet union socialism turned the country from a semi-feudal wasteland with constant famines into a global superpower. I mean that's got to count for something right?

>>12069625
My grandpa fought on the eastern front died today :(

>>12069613
it’s because we have a conception of something called “historical materialism” and “dialectical materialism” which you are too pea-brained to comprehend

socialism/communism must arise out of the proper conditions by force, these proper conditions being capitalism. these conditions may not always be ideal but you can bring about proper industrialization as the USSR did for example. marx thought that there would be a communist revolution in england first due to its level of industrialization. of course a socialist state isn’t fucking capitalism, that’s how historical materialism works.

>>12068796
>It doesn't matter if some wagies earn bigger wages than others since ultimately both are in servitude to the capitalist.

Commies are going to be slaves to new masters after their communist revolution. It doesn't matter what labels you come up with for people, ideologies, and whatnot. Objectively, you won't change the shitty side of people just by redistributing property.

>>12069620
>thinks that he can escape ideology
Watch The Pervert's Guide to Ideology, you centrist faggot.
>indigo pill: being antisocial
That's not an escape, you idiot, that's just the basic social reality of capitalism.
>you're being controlled by ideas that you didn't even come up with
Is this your version of the SJW's refusal to engage with books and thoughts by saying that those were written by "dead white men"?

>>12069613
also, economies don’t exist in a vacuum, fucktwat.

>COLD WAR
>PRESSURE FROM ALL SIDES AND ADJACENT PROXY WARS THAT PUT RELENTLESS PRESSURE ON THE SOVIET UNION DUE TO IT BEING PERCEIVED AS A SUCCESSFUL THREAT TO CAPITALIST SOCIETY


geee i wonder why we had the red scare and so much anti-communist propaganda xddd surely it’s because—

http://www.mariosousa.se/LiesconcerningthehistoryoftheSovietUnion.html

>>12069613
>Why do you guys not recognize that capitalism built the USSR initially
When has anyone not recognized this you fucking imbecile? One of the biggest problems of the communist movement in the 20th century was that revolutions happened in countries that didn't have sufficient capitalist development and therefore not a properly organized industrial proletariat, and instead they had to heavily rely on alliances between illiterate peasants and industrial workers.
>How do account for the collapse during the Cold War, if the economic system was superior?
Ultimately it was the Soviet Union against the world with Mao turning into a little bitch over the USSR "stealing" Mongolia from them. Even with a superior economic system, a growth that perplexed American conservatives, the capitalist forces were stronger in their global desire to gain access to the Soviet market and stop the spread of communism to save their profits.
Also, I'm pretty confident that the Soviet Union could have avoided collapse with a more competent leadership. As much shit as I could talk about Stalin, the post-Stalin Soviet government went way too overboard with liberalization.

>>12069260
>Because 80% of new enterprises fail in their first four years, because 99% of the world's population dies as either unemployed, wagie, or pensioner after being a lifelong wagie.

Why would communism be anything different? Look at what happened in Soviet Union, China, etc. Millions of people starved to death as a consequence for their failures.

>>12069245
No you're the adorable cunt for being unable to understand that education can make a change. Yes niggers are stupid but if you're taught how to cook mud cookies all of your life, the chances are that learning simple mathematics is a complex challenge for you. If your life, however, revolves around complex, deeper thinking then obviously you will be a little smarter than your parents and so your offspring have a higher chance of being better than his own parents. Cognitive performance is not purely biological. If you sincerely believe it is then how could you ever explain people like kazyncsky? His parents were middle class workers from poland yet he was tested with an IQ that rivals the estimates of both Einstein and Hawking. Right this moment in Africa they have slot machines that the african children below the age of 15 compulsively play. When the government cracks down on this, the chinese who provide them place new ones within a week. So please, stop judging without knowing more than an ounce of knowledge about a topic, you deranged subhuman cunt.

>>12069625
Look up the Lend-Lease program. The United States funded Russia so hard that they replaced over 100% of Russia's tanks through the Lend-Lease alone. They were a Poland without us.

>>12069674
I am very sorry for you my friend. Your grandfather was a hero. My grandfather was shot at by german planes when he was 7 but he was also raised by a german man.

>>12069696
Just have the intellectual honesty to at least look up wikipedia articles before posting on topics you have no idea about, holy shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yiu-g7iVME

If i changed the word from "socialism" to something like "freedomism" but still have it be about the workers owning the means of production/abolition of money/abolition of classes would the idea be more palatable?

>>12069747
>youtube videos

You're the one who's intellectually, dishonest, welfare leech. You know damn well what I'm talking about.

>>12069773
intellectually dishonest*

>>12069727
I'll read about that. Thanks anon. That would change my opinion on the impact of the US in WW2 given that the tanks used by the ruskies weren't so shit that they would lose 100 tanks to one panzer because of the US (((funding))).
>>12069724
It's Kaczynski not Kazynkcsky, my mistake.

>>12069723
>if I repeat cold war propaganda it will become true
https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2009/11/03/better-red-than-unfed-a-survey-of-post-communism/

The soviets abolished the causes for starvation, not created them, you nitwit. We are talking about wast regions of Russia wherein every 10 years way before the soviets took power starvation occurred due to a complex set of factors [war damage, drought].

Never mind that an average soviet citizen had a higher calorie intake than an US citizen.

>>12069706
You are simultaneously uninformed while believing you are extremely informed. How is you govt job going?
>escaping ideology
Control and select, not escape. Pick ideologies that empower the self. All ideologies are designed to spread. Communism spreads by asking for self sacrifice while secretly serving the will to power. Similar to Christianity. "On the last day(communist revolution) all the evil sinners (capitalists) will perish (be executed)." Contrast that with Maimonedes who was the first to argue that to believe in Judaism was advantageous to the self, and that's why you should follow it. Of course he was wrong about Judaism being the best possible system. A modern example is Ego and Its Own.
>antisocial
Indigo pill is not antisocial. It views others as tools for gaining personal power.
>SJW
I have far more respect for SJWs than for you. SJW (when done right) manipulate the system for their own benefit. You're just sad, a "white male hero" fighting for a long dead vision you barely understand with no knowledge of the advancements by Marxists in the last 100 years.

>>12069750
No. What you call it doesn't change the fact that the very idea is repulsive, unsustainable, and diametrically opposed to natural law.

>>12069707
>>12069678

I get it you're asspained. Right so the point you're not grasping is that it was a failed state from the beginning. Right so you've just won a revolution, killed the mensheviks, whites, etc. Time to enact your economic system for the Soviets right?

But you've basically caused the brain drain, destroyed every institution...so you have to import the industry of capitalism to save your system, despite railing against it. You never "properly" industrialized, which us why the USSR collapsed.

Also, gee red scare eh? You sure seem to gloss over why countries in proxy were scared when whole nation states seemed to disappear overnight in the conclusion of WWII. No wonder why West Germany, Norway, Finland, etc. were worried about their right of self determination, idiots like you were in power in the East. The delusion you must have.

>>12069727
>replaced over 100%

Lads
>an active thread on /biz/ where everyone discusses their distrusts of capitalism/communism
Are we finally blaming the goverment? Are we at anger yet/near depression? I very much think so! Get that job wagie and buy your favorite shitcoins, the world is going to be ours soon.

>>12069773
>wagies are welfare leeches
Nope. It is the capitalist class that is parasitical and not the other way around. I haven't seen a single porker fix pipes, lay roads, cook food, or drive a bus.

>>12068991
jeff bezos doesnt have $100 billion in CASH you stupid nigger. that's in stock. he has to sell that stock and follow STRICT SEC rules in order to do so. his actions will be scrutinized by the SEC heavily. he will also have to pay heavy TAX on that cashing of stocks and then he will have cash. but ONLY if he can find someone or people to actually buy $25 billion worth of stock in a timely matter. you worthless fucking nigger, you know nothing about stocks, net worth, cash - nothing. fuck off niggerboy

>>12069817
Look, a clown (Stirnerite)!

>>12069822
>natural law
Humans by their very nature is an affront to nature so i don't think we should go and appeal to something like that.

>>12069874
How would giving more political power and money to the plumbers, road maintenance workers, bus drivers, etc. address the problem of corruption, greed, and hierarchical distribution of power that has happened in every human society?

>>12069928
You're letting political power be held by the majority class and not the parisitical minority class who can only exist by expropriating from the working population. Also, we're abolishing money and replacing it with something that doesn't circulate and accumulate.

>>12069874
This. I don't understand how anyone can think that it makes sense that a fraction of the richest people on earth own half of it. Considering that the US spends roughly 1T on welfare and meanwhile pic related happened, people still prefer to blame it on welfare rather than bullshit policies that only set up a 1929 style financial crash. Then the President goes on to attack the Fed and calls their interest rates far too high as if he didn't, in anyway, cause these interest rates to skyrocket. I also fon't get how people can expect the entire 300mm people in the US to obtain a valuable degree given the high costs of education and the distribution of IQ. Not everyone will be a STEM graduate, the rest will have to become lower grade workers. The same applies to people starting a business. In the end you will have poorer people in a system that is a literal pyramid of power. Speaking of getting a non-dogshit job, I better get back to studying because I certainly did not win the IQ lottery both genetically and environmentally. Good conversation lads, even with you brainwashed capies and commies.
>>12069928
My post is semi related to what you said.

hope you realize that automation makes the poor and unfit a waste of space, and populations will decline forcefully or voluntarily as a result. if you dont have assets and are not capable of working for them, you are literally on the way to extinction.

there will be no revolution, because there will be nothing for the worthless to steal from the worthy. if the worthless "people" try to rise up and try to cause any problems, the rich simply leave, and are happily welcomed into another country. the poor remain trapped forever in the mess they have created for themselves.

the future will further tighten the definition of what a first world country looks like, as those who can keep escaping the increasingly poor, stupid, and brown population

>>12069899
not surprised you didn't answer me you worthless spic. your entire existence descends from conquered spics who have never in their history been able to form a proper government or country rife with corruption. your smug, spic attitude is an attempt to keep people away from your glaring insecurities. change your name to "conquered spic" worthless bitch

>>12069904
One should also point out that the very concept of 'natural law' is rooted pretty much in the creation story of the bible (see Hobbes and Locke), a kind of pre-ordained way of things that was always used as an ideological ersatz: "things be like it is because things are like dat."

>>12069928
Legit question, although I must start by correcting you on one of your points. You say that the
>problem of corruption, greed, and hierarchical distribution of power [...] happened in every human society
while this is not true at all. The point at which what you imply as being an unmovable human nature of greed etc. came into force is when most of humanity became a class society, that is, after the invention of agriculture the scarcity of arable land mixed with the primitive technology incentivized enslaving a part of the population while the other part could sustain itself by parasitizing on their efforts.

If you consult with anthropologists, archaeologists, historians of early human civilization they will confirm that 90% of the history of Homo Sapiens has been spent in classless societies.

Familiarize yourself with its basics of Marxism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4

>>12070003
If you expel people from production through implementing automation then there'd be less people to buy the goods that the capitalists are selling.

>>12068747
>anti-racism is a means to control the proletariat. Rid yourself of this 20th century kike ideology.

>>12070003
Also this. Minus the comment about shitskins. I think they are just a tool to divide the population from the real issues that automation and global capitalism create.
>>12070043
I very briefly skimmed through your post but the issue I have is that although humans can function without a class system, how can you have such a system with a large population. I have seen something about wards and communes with specific amounts of people in them but I am not sure how this does not lead to capitalism within a few decades.

>>12070012
someone got emotional, babby

>>12068689
okay...
whoever made that sign needs to UNIRONICALLY kill themselves. I know a lot of times people say this in a joking manner, but this time I am dead serious 100%. This isn't a joke.

>>12068689
the ironic thing is that in a truly free market you can reject employers that try to enforce your pic related, and shit like >>12055380
the more authoritarian and collectivized things become, the less the will and opinion of the individual has any significance
the less you can turn down stupid, retarded modernist NPC normie shit

shoot yourself you disgusting fucking commie

>>12069822
yeah dude birth rates are dropping and people are going insane because we're not doing enough pointless, undignified white collar wage labor in the imperial core. 's just natural law man. natural law man.

"the more exponential growth you do the more gooderer you is nigga f'real doe" -based CHRISTIAN yahweh

it's nature so that means it's good. let's live in shit and die face-down in the mud from secondary infections, 's what big g God intended man

>>12070044
but thats a huge fallacy, because the cost rapidly decreases due to more advanced automation, and so you just don't need to sell as much as before.

declining population is inevitable, and so at some point you will have to accept being able to sell less and less YOY. the fact that today people can't afford to buy a large number of products that have been increasingly pushed up into the "luxury" category means its already happening. many businesses are happy to simply raise prices and accept a smaller customer base than try to find something the lowest common denominator can afford, which is not where the profits are.

>>12070070
they are one of the most easily visible factors of a declining country though. they bring decreased wages, quality of life, increased violence, poverty, lowering average intelligence, etc. it's a symptom of the underling cause but itself something that wakes average people up to what's going on around them.

>>12070082
The myth of "true capitalism of olden times" has been already addressed here: >>12068949
To add insult to injury capitalism didn't start peacefully. Remember: most of the population was a self-sustaining serf that worked 5 hours a day and had ZERO intention of working for a capitalist 12 hours a day. They literally had to be FORCED to become wagies, this process entailed
>taking land, say, enclosing it, and expelling a resident population to create a landless proletariat, and then releasing the land into the privatised mainstream of capital accumulation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_accumulation_of_capital
>HURR HURR HURR NPC
Why is it that the ones shouting "muh NPC" are the biggest NPCs?

>>12070150
Are you implying that the capitalist class at this very moment don't see automation as a problem? That things are all fine and dandy with regard to its implementation and its consequences towards the labor force?

>>12070208
He doesn't really imply anything, he just has this malthusian power trip fantasy and constructed for it a self-fulfilling teleology.

>>12070150
By calling them shitskin, I was trying to imply that you were right but they were not the source of problem. They are just a tool to divert the attention from the real issues that the country is going through. What I am trying to say is that I don't want our hatred to go against immigrants as if they were a cause rather than a repercussion of capitalism/government incompetence/corruption/brainwashing which really is just the downfall of the American Empire (I think we can both agree that it is an empire). Also, I had this autistic idea after posting, given that automation will happen, isn't it better to give the jobs/education to immigrants that can fuck off to their own countries when automation cuts their jobs. That way you only have to deal with the native population that is less instructed because most of the educated population could leave the country. This means that the population has less chances of rising against the oppressive power than subjugates them. Pic unrelated, I don't even know what it is.

>>12068689
>Establish dictatorship of the proletariat
>suddenly you have to work at least 20 hours a week in order to get neetbux from state
>NEET's faces when

>>12070446
Oh yeah, it's a fallacious piece of shit meme. Have this one instead. I think this one could lead about a conversation about induced happiness to calm the masses. A bit similar to what goes on in BNW but more subtle.
>>12070460
Based anime poster.

>>12069904
You're entitled to believe your fallacious fantasy that humanity is somehow separate from or higher than nature. The rest of us will continue to live in the real world.

>>12070083
My statement was purely descriptive. That you somehow perceived a normative statement from what i typed tells me you are either drunk, retarded, or some combination of the two.

The best part about communism is, that all of the early advocate faggots all end up in the mass graves, all the Chad's end up in the military and get to bang all the hottest slags anyway, and all the rest of the pathetic middle too weak to stop any of it end up working for Mr Sheklebergski the commissar rather than Mr Shekleberger the capitalist (no more quiting from your no-wage jobsky)

>>12068702

fpbp

>>12068689
You would literally be dead without "job creators."
Think about it, the human population is higher than it's ever been.
Retarded people like you wouldn't even survive without someone employing your sorry ass

>>12070082
>the ironic thing is that in a truly free market you can reject employers that try to enforce your pic related
rxcept you can't because every time you try to implement your dream utopia you hit a brick wall called REALITY and it turns out starving people (the result of "truly" "free" markets) will not just dance like trained monkeys for a couple of bucks but do a lot more and a lot worse
you're not gonna have employees telling employers to go fuck themselves, you'll have employees competing in breakdance like it's fucking x-factor and not a burger joint

>>12070576
>3.8% unemployment
lol everybody except the "experts" on /biz/ know the unemployment numbers get brutally fudged
the literally don't count you if you stop looking for a job cause you chronically can't find one

>>12068844
Duh.

>>12070446
>who makes the product
the wagie
>who markets the product?
other wagies
>who produces the material for the product
third world wagies
>who pays for the factory
the bossman by not paying his wagies the full worth of their work
>who provides the training?
teacher wagies
>who risked capital
the bossman, like 25 years ago, and now he's an untouchable god whose great great great grandson won't have to work a single day in his life because this is somehow just or meritocratic, lol
>how should the profit be distributed
by and among those who actually work in the now

>>12070628
job creators are erasing life on earth
good job! fuck 50 years from now, the next quarter is the most important thing

>>12070714

Uh oh, one of the factory no-wagies just contradicted our utopian workers government, looks like your family will never see or hear from you again.

>>12070043
>>12070043
>>12069977

You didn't answer my question. None of the things I've mentioned have anything to do with class. A store clerk that secretly overcharges customers and pocketing money is no different than the the rich guy who engages in dishonest business practices. Why would putting the proletariat to power prevent any of these things from happening?

>>12070848
I find it hilarious how you try to project your petit-bourgeois fears of a wagie revolution on proper wagies.

It's also somewhat reassuring that while the right wing trolling is concerned with collecting salt, legit left wing threats can make bossman make poopoos in his underwear, shouting at his wagies: "Aren't ya all afraid of this?"

Nigga, your wagies gonna fucking ditch you in an unmarked mass grave.

>>12068796
>>12070971

>>12070971
>A store clerk that secretly overcharges customers and pocketing money is no different than the the rich guy who engages in dishonest business practices.

>>12068733
>But excesses should be avoided.
plain and simple : only execute the jews. Then the world will be a lovely place again instead of this demonic timeline.

>>12071053
>non-jewish capitalists are welcome to exploit me
GOOD WAGIE
SMART WAGIE

>>12068689
tryting to kill a bunch of people is evil you moron. Capitalism isnt evil, at the extremes it can bring evil forward, but it isnt inherently evil..

>>12071149
American capitalism kills people every day though.

>>12071175
Don't forget how much human trafficking and child slavery in 3rd world countries it involves too.

>>12071149
>Capitalism isnt evil, at the extremes it can bring evil forward, but it isnt inherently evil.
shut up porky

>>12071149
By whose standards are you judging the revolution to be evil? Not with the standards of the wagies, the wage slave, whose blood and tears this machine runs on, benefiting only the very few.

It seems to the wagie that this system is already evil, violent by its very functioning, killing people right and left being as a system so totally overarching that no culprit is to be found for these deaths.

TL;DR: you are a faggot

>>12071130
>post a kike's caricature to prove his point
unironically yes

>>12070997

>Nigga, your wagies gonna fucking ditch you in an unmarked mass grave.

It reassuring that after a brief attempt at sounding smart you go back to your core principle: murdering everyone you are envious of. Violent communist revolutions have worked wonders every time so far, so best of luck with your genocide chap, hopefully your intended victims are not the most armed public in human history.

>>12068844
Yes.

>>12071244
>if a German capitalist rapes me that is fine
>if an Irish capitalist rapes me that is fine
>WTF A JEWISH CAPITALIST RAPED ME LETS KILL THE KIKE
>if an Indian capitalist rapes me that is fine
>if a Slovene capitalist rapes me that is fine

>>12071250
>hopefully your intended victims are not the most armed public in human history
No, they are not. They are the intended agents of it, if you know what I mean.

>>12071269
>t. increasingly sweating shlomo
We will come for (((you))) in due time kike, don't worry

>>12068991
>could abolish poverty globally with 25% of his money

>>12071296

No I don't. Every man I know who owns an AK47 would love an opportunity to bury a collectivist in their back yard. Every person I ever met at college that advocated for some form of Marxism was a tremendous faggot who thought guns should be banned. You don't become a communist because you think yourself a winner, but because you know you're a loser. Weak, effeminate losers don't win bloody civil wars against hard guys with ak47s.

>>12071301
Does your boss give you so much free time to come after people? Better kiss his aryan feet and ask the bossman kindly: "Übermensch bossman, plz, can we has some time off? We need lynchings of internet (((parentheses)))! Pretty please, we promise to work overtime tomorrow!"

You selective bootlicker.

>>12069036
>soviets did the heavy lifting
C’mon man

>>12071391
This has got to be the most homoerotic post ITT.

>>12071391
t. boomer

>>12071405
this is what happens when americans shit out ww2 movie after ww2 movie for half a century

>>12071406

Thanks, you have to know who you are talking to, and for you dick sucking faggots, the image of the ass-fucking you retards would get in a civil war would make even the most gaping bottom question his life decisions.

>>12071421
>b-but we learned in elementary school that america is best country and it keeps bringing democracy to the w-world

>>12071416
Nah, boomers wouldn't post dabbing. It's an underage b& copy pasting his daddy's deep insights.
>>12071479
>no, u

>>12071406

>>12071522

My favorite part of trolling commies is that I can shit, just fucking shit all over, on their garbage ideology without saying a single positive thing about capitalism or any other altenative. Call me a boomer, who cares, doesn't erase the 100,000,000+ dead working class people your political religion killed. It's easy when the main guy behind the ideology you shit on is a privilaged NEET Jew who banged his working class maid pregnant then left her in the gutter. Nothing but hypocrisy and logical fallacies from start to finish.

>>12071623
>doesn't erase the 100,000,000+ dead working class people your political religion killed
[citation needed]

>>12071623
> doesn't erase the 100,000,000+ dead working class people your political
> doesn't erase the 1,000,000,000+ dead working class people your political religion killed.
FTFY.

>>12071628

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

Now please give me a citation of communism happening anywhere, at any time, on national scale that didn't incure massive violations of human rights.

>>12071658
>black book of communism
>posting literal CIA pro-jewish communist propaganda that downplays the holodomor and the number of people killed by communism
Kill yourself.

>>12071623
>100,000,000+ dead working class people your political religion killed
this is the amount that dies in like 10 years (probably even less) in capitalism

>>12071677
>holodomor
the only thing the soviets did right

>>12071658
>Moreover, two of the book's main contributors—Nicolas Werth and Jean-Louis Margolin—as well as Karel Bartosek[18] publicly disassociated themselves from Courtois' statements in the introduction and criticized his editorial conduct. Werth and Margolin felt Courtois was "obsessed" with arriving at a total of 100 million killed which resulted in "sloppy and biased scholarship"[19] and faulted him for exaggerating death tolls in specific countries

LOL even the authors themselves are running away from this piece of shit pamphlet

>>12071633

No need to exaggerate bro, at 100,000,000 communism is far beyond any other single idea when it comes to deathtoll. Literally Hitler killed way less.

OP is fishing, inspired by the commie that gave up posting

>>12071690
>Chomsky argued that "supposing we now apply the methodology of the Black Book" to India, "the democratic capitalist 'experiment' has caused more deaths than in the entire history of [...] Communism everywhere since 1917: over 100 million deaths by 1979, and tens of millions more since, in India alone"

>>12071682

People die all the time, very few people "die from capitalism", uness you count all the people dying from being disgustingly fat from excess food consumption.

>>12071710

Chomsky is good on antiwar, and a fucking retarded commie on literally everything else.

>>12071392
>implying i'm a wagie

>>12071712
that is the greatest achievement of capitalism, convincing people that people in it die just like that, from personal irresponsibility and similar bullshit
capitalism is the dindu nuffin of ideologies

>>12071682
>>12071725
these

>>12071725

So they should adopt a slave ideology and allow the ever competent government to make decisions for them? Who are these magical people that turn down massive wealth in the private sector to make such great government decisions on behalf of these drooling retards that cant care for them selves?

>>12071767
>muh loaded questions
Ever considered the possibility that your opponent does not share your premises?

>>12071767
>slave ideology
we are living in a system in which you get up every day and go work for 8 hours or more so your boss can buy himself a bigger yacht, in which producing pollution is profitable and as such desirable, in which the ones who actually build shit will die in a natural cataclysm that will bury the human race, while the ones who caused it all through their unstopping thirst for profit will live out the catastrophe in specialized bunkers and shit
the majority of the world's population is building boltholes for people who will leave them outside in the baking skin-cancer-causing sun, drowning cities, mega-hurricane-devastated towns that the rich people caused throught heir psychopathy
there is no bigger slave ideology than this, any communist state pales in comparison
stalin, mao, etc. were bad but they raised illiterate peasantry into fucking astronauts, these people are doing the exact opposite, they will send us back into the stone age

>>12071788

Of course, how could we possibly ever share premises when scum like you refuse to acknowledge that communists in Cambodia executed 1000's of infants by swinging them by their feet and bashing their heads on trees. Vile crimes of rape, torture and murder follow your ideology like stink on a dead corpse

>>12071834
pol pot was supported by the cia and was BTFO by communist vietnam you dumb fuck

>>12069190
I’m half Irish how do I get in on the conspericy?

>>12071724
>>12071269
No problem, bootlicker:
>gladly go bankrupt after German competitor undercuts my price and automates faster than me
>gladly go bankrupt after Irish competitor undercuts my price and automates faster than me
>WHAT THE FUCK THIS FUCKING JEW COMPETITOR TRICKED ME AND NOW I'M BANKRUPT FUCKING KIKES
>gladly go bankrupt after Indian competitor undercuts my price and automates faster than me
>gladly go bankrupt after Slovene competitor undercuts my price and automates faster than me

(meanwhile in reality: indiscriminate REEEEEEEEEEEEEE'ing)

>>12071831

I got over cyber-punk fiction ages ago. If you are interested in real history, feel free to look up all of the worst industrial ecological disasters and how thet occurred overwhelmingly in the Soviet union.

>>12071842
And America sent a literal entire national military amount of arms to Uncle Joe Stalin. Doesn't change that the fact that every communist regime has perptrated horrific crimes on their own people at a mass scale from the early days of Lenin's revolution to current day Cuba and North Korea.

>>12071856
Follow the silver shamrock to gain access to your birthright, mo chara!

>>12071250
>Nigga, your wagies gonna fucking ditch you in an unmarked mass grave.

>>12071011
Way to contradict yourself.

>>12071931
Quoted the wrong post:
>>12070997

>>12071865
ah yes, "real" history you picked up from /pol/ memes and cappie shill sites, too bad it's bullshit
>>12071915
they sent him arms to defeat the nazis you dumb fuck
>Doesn't change that the fact that every communist regime has perptrated horrific crimes on their own people at a mass scale from the early days of Lenin's revolution to current day Cuba and North Korea.
current day cuba, a real hellhole

>>12071915
>>12071865
>>12071834
>>12071767
>muh_zero_effort_two_liners_to_address_subjects_I_don't_really_care_about_or_know_anything.ideology.mp3

>>12071931
>>12071941
I have no idea what your point is, so spell it out, please.

>>12071831
>stalin, mao, etc. were bad but they raised illiterate peasantry into fucking astronauts

No they didn't. They controlled everything. Nepotism was rampant. You have some peasants living better lives but many more were denied education and better work opportunities because they were forced to work in communes.

>>12071951
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_of_Lake_Karachay

>Current day cuba, a real hellhole
They are literally outlawing independent art as we speak.
https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article222724555.html

>>12072004
>No they didn't.
eat shit

>>12072004
What the fuck are you even rambling about? You are denying basic economic facts. Russia pre-revolution: 80% peasant economy. Russia post-revolution: highly industrialized and urbanized space faring economy.

It is hilarious how people are still blinded by cold war propaganda dogmatically repeating every falsehood.

>>12072012
They are literally introducing the internet as we speak.

>>12071980
>I have no idea what your point is, so spell it out, please.

You kept dodging the question until you finally quoted some earlier post which still didn't address my question. Then later you mentioned tossing people in mass gives, which completely disproves your point that classism has anything to do with morality.

>>12072045
You are talking about of different posters. Check the IDs.

>>12072012
>Lake_Karachay
Yes, idiot, you have found an example of pollution in a communist state. Good job. Too bad nobody presented them as paragons of ecology. I googled your dumb fucking phrase "top industrial ecological accidents" and it consistently gave me mostly disasters in capitalist states. Funny how that works.

>>12072037
So as long as industrialization happened, the mass deaths happened are justified? Says more about your values than anything.

You're the one who's blinded by Marxist propaganda. You live in modern democratic country and know fuck all of the harsh conditions in the communist countries. You deny anything that doesn't fit your communist utopian fantasy.

>>12072012
>https://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article222724555.html
Gusanos. Love the pic of the poor oppressed artist sitting in broad daylight wearing a shirt critical of the government, free and relaxed.

>>12072089
cont'd

My family emigrated from a communist country, so there's fucking propaganda coloring my views.

>>12072089
Literally nobody justified mass deaths. That's something you made up.

>>12072100
there's no*

>>12072100
>>12072112
>My parents lived there, I know what was happening!!!
so you were brainwashed from a young age

>>12072106
If you only focusing on the ends and not the means, then you're tacitly justifying it.

>>12072122
OK, then you're justifying the killing of striking workers in the West, child labor, cutting of the hands of Congolese children and many many many many more deaths. Because you're defending capitalism.
Funny how that works.

>>12072121
I don't see how being told facts means that you're being brainwashed. Facts aren't propoganda.

>>12072089
>as long as industrialization happened, the mass deaths happened are justified
Nobody said it was justified, but that it is understandable, considering that the same fucking thing happened when the US or Britain industrialized, the difference is that the USSR did in 50 years what the former two did in 150.

>muh values
Show it up your ass, you stupid fucking American. I don't eat with my values, I eat with my stomach, and if you faggot capitalists won't give us the millions of wagies what we worked for we will shoot and bury you gladly, writing on a plaque above your mass grave: "They died in accordance with their values".

>You're the one who's blinded by Marxist propaganda.
You do realize you stupid shit that the Marxists lost the cold war, right? There's literally no "Marxist" TV channels, radios, mega sites, while 97% of all media is in the hands of 10 capitalists. What Marxist propaganda was I duped by, you fucking miserable idiot? I'm reading big fucking books to learn how to overthrow this fucking miserable regime while you faggot "study" get-rich ponzi schemes, playing casino online, pretending to be the next Jeff Bezos.

>You live in modern democratic country and know fuck all of the harsh conditions in the communist countries.
I live in an ex-commie country you stupid asshole and the majority of the population wants communism back: https://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2009/11/03/better-red-than-unfed-a-survey-of-post-communism/

Absolute cretin.

>>12072138
I have never defended that but almost every communist that has ever posted on /biz/ justified mass murdering the bourgeosie and tried to redirect the blame of mass starvation and persecution to anyone other that the top levels of the gov't.

>>12072056
>>12072069

Good night fellas, I have responsibilities in the morning. I hope your dreams of a communist revolution happen, and you get to put down your iPhone and murder all those mean people who who dared make more money than you.

>>12072100
>>12072112
epic Freudian slip, my man

>>12072140
And how would you know that those are the facts. The sad truth is that the only reason you think it was like that is because you trust your parents and you trust them because they're your parents. Circular logic.
I'm not even saying communist states are/were beatuiful places where the people frolic on meadows and play in the grass, but your reductive view is ridiculous. Everything communist is murderous, everything non-communist is holy and clean with a few spatters here and there.

>>12072170
they're memeing, retard, nobody is gonna hunt down jeff bezos and scalp him
for fuck's sake

>>12072167
>Nobody said it was justified, but that it is understandable

How is deliberating using unscientific and unproven methods to grow crops in a mass experiment to increase agricultural output understandable? If you're playing dice with people's lives, then you're not treating as humans but as mere cattle to do your bidding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

>There's literally no "Marxist" TV channels, radios, mega sites, while 97% of all media is in the hands of 10 capitalists.

In the communist regimes, the media is under heavy control of the state. I doubt they would flatter countries oppositing them either. You would go to jail for talking even talking about capitalism.

>>12069059
"true" capitalism sits atop a major contradiction considering that the enforcement of private property is inherently coercive, thus the current system of legality (rather, as foucault observed more of a system of permitted illegalities) majorly changed focus as to more energically and efficiently enforce ownership. If there's no punishment for property theft, there's no capitalism. A non-coercive capitalism doesn't even exist in theory.

>>12072222
>You would go to jail for talking even talking about capitalism.
lol is this another little nugget of "truth" your parents told you?

It's really brilliant how the retard's only defense of a system that will literally wipe the human race from the face of the earth is "b-b-b-but 80 years ago Stalin was a retard!".

theresno

>under communsm people are cattle
>stalin personally raped my parents
>if you talked without the permission of the party you were jailed

theresno
>>12072222
theresno
>>12072112
theresno

also, my parents made this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIPDJ1Cc_uw

theresno

>>12072272
theresno

>>12072275
>>12072293
quit sperging out autist you're embarrasing yourself

>>12072238
Lol, I don't care if you don't believe me. Keep on drinking that communist Kool-Aid.

>>12072275
No one's going to watch your stupid clickbait videos. Are you too stupid to communicate in legible sentences?

>>12072275
Your parents animated a literal Facebook meme lmao what hacks.

>>12068866
Shut the fuck up you manipulated capitalist pond NPC scum

>>12072354
>>12072352

>>12072334
You were force-fed your Kool-Aid from the moment you were born and now you would rather kill the whole world than change the system that incentivizes and profits off deadly climate change. You spend your time trembling at shadows, seeing Stalin and Mao in anyone who wants to stop the dangerous path we're on while Porky is robbing you blind and is ensuring your own children and grandchildren die.

>>12068732
Ith thithtemic

>>12072394
>big words are gay

All you manipulated pro capitalist NPCs on here need a serious beating.

You retards are the brand ambassadors of tyranny and oppression of the highest form. Congratulations on being manipulated.

Here's a tip: If you were told by TV or your university how great capitalism is, please fuck off

>>12068689
>Daily reminder that when the wagie revolution comes the capitalist class will have to be shot not just in order to ensure the revolution remains unopposed but to rid this earth of the evil our 'job creators' objectively are.
w/e bruh. I got no time for this commie stuff. Some of us have to wake up tomorrow and start dancing for money.

>>12068702
fpbp

>>12072486

>>12068991
satoshi could buy USA

>>12072443
So is sarcasm

If you don’t want to dance choose another job you lazy shiftless zoomer

>>12068689
Based wagies cagies

>>12070754
>>12070482
?

>>12072387
>you would rather kill the whole world than change the system that incentivizes and profits off deadly climate change

Communists historically never cared about the environment. Don't drag unrelated stuff in there.

>You spend your time trembling at shadows, seeing Stalin and Mao in anyone who wants to stop the dangerous path we're on while Porky is robbing you blind and is ensuring your own children and grandchildren die.

No communist has ever explained how it would be possible for new attempts at communism to not repeat the same shit that had happened under Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, (i.e. conslidation of power around a small elite and mass persecution). Theories don't count for shit. It doesn't matter how much literature you reference because if it doesn't work, then it's garbage. So many countries have tried communism and failed.

>>12068689
When capitalism breaks physics and invent time machines they should send commies back to pre-industrial times like they've always wanted.

>>12071658
>human rights violations
You can argue this all day, pretty much any a priori change of government is going to result in nasty, unprecedented violence.
The transition from feudalism to bourgeois democracies were just as bloody when compared to Pol Pots killing fields or the Cultural Revolution.
Hell, the north american transition from indigenous communities to the market economy we enjoy today was not without casualties.
The vanguard of any movement is going to either inflict violence or have violence exacted on their heads in any transition of power.

>>12069190

No disagreement. Medieval farming was indeed created by monopoly in the use of violence. Again, Capitalism (in the ideal form) has never existed. Same as Communism. Historically attempts at the later have turned out a lot worse than the former though huh?

>Irish

Wut? Look, if you're going to post a straw man to try and slip in the "all jooz memes are fake" idea, at least post one that'll be believable. You're just being silly now. Since again, even 5 mins of normie sources reveals the ethnic composition of the elites, it's just a bad example. Unless you are a Jew, in which case don't you think it's a little hypocritical to blame shift your guilt onto others?

>>12072837

This. Real Ancap etc hasn't been attempted yet - might well fail, but who knows? Communism has been tried (at least the attempt to implement it), but it ends up worse than the thing it replaces.

>>12072837
>(i.e. conslidation of power around a small elite and mass persecution)
exactly how is that different from the oligarchic system we live in now?

>>12072692

Nah, the commies quite right about that. When every large business is a front run by shabbos goy to line the pockets of plutocrats, ie every job makes you dance, the whole concept of "choice" is a joke. Stop being a damn cuck. Who let you in normiefag? NeetSocs, Ancaps and /leftypol/ trolls (plus the odd glownigger or jidf), and whichever pajeet shills are being paid to spam are all we allow here.

>>12072275
>Nah, the Soviet Union was a utopia! You've been lied to!

Except that a lot of us know people that lived in the USSR. No mystery, we know how it went down.

>>12073059

Mass persecution, really- is there millions of farmers being starved or gulaged? You having to pay more for Starbucks isn't the same thing, nor is some imaginary microaggresions. We simply aren't at that stage, yet. Operative word is yet. Look, the whole key is centralisation of power - since the current system has to pretend to be somewhat like a free society, there wasn't the same degree of centralised power in full effect. Now it's heading in that direction, and the ideology of the Left (take note) is being used as the justification for it. Why? It's more easily twisted to that end. "Protect the exploited by turning them into a slave race & removing the race that had struggled to assert at least some of it's rights as workers". Disgusting.

>>12072469
>dat reddit spacing

Nope, in case you missed it, the actual "working class" didn't go to your universities to study sociology my bourgeoisie friend, and your mass media isn't what led to the rejection of it's own ideology. That's the whole point - you and your friends are the literal petite-bourgeoisie here to convert the poor, dumb proles to your cause. And while you preach revolution now, in a couple of years you'll be a HR manager for Apple, or a Sales rep for Goldman Sachs or something. Because you're just another larper.

>>12073203
>in a couple of years you'll be a HR manager for Apple, or a Sales rep for Goldman Sachs or something. Because you're just another larper.

Meanwhile, poor white Trumptards will continue SEETHING that chinks and mexicans are taking their jobs

>>12073203
Holy fuck, this

>>12073087
Was the badness the result of communism, or russians being russians?

>>12073075
Get a job, loser