/biz/ - Business & Finance

DELET!!!

>>11973179
This is objectively false.

>Getting jewed this hard

When another rise up?, oh wait, they made a weaboo of yourself, okay.

>>11973198
This, though it still speaks to the intelligence of the average American invested in crypto. How are people this dumb?

>>11973179
Make a lateral trade to realize losses to reduce any tax burden. You literally have to have a room temperature IQ to not totally eliminate all of your tax burden this year. I've realized enough capital loss and deferred it to not have to pay capital gains on the next 80k profit I make. Fucking morons.

>>11973198
good luck

>>11973179
>the absolute state of burgers
>unironically the only country that matters

>>11973640
His scenario ignores that you can just sell at a less and claim your losses dipshit. I’m no protector of the system but anyone with basic algebra skills knows that this is the way any system has to work. Jesus this thread reeks of retarded normies including that absolute retard whose twitter you decided to post.

>>11973198

Nobody made 20x in 2018 so he's right. People need to learn the concept of different tax years. If you made profit in 2017 and traded on it you are FUCKED.

Why pay tax at all? The jews dont know your crypto wallets anyway

>>11973179
Twitter was a mistake

>>11973179
it applies if you made 20x in dec 2017, then made a trade in dec 2017, even if crypto to crypto. Then in january 2018 it dumped hard and you are down 90%.

you still owe the profits from 2017, but realisticly they wont be able to find out about trades made on binance and such. If you did realize fiat gains on coinbase or so in 2017 and didnt account for the taxes to pay on them, then bought back in 2018 only to have it drop you are likely fucked though

>>11973179
Can americucks actually confirm? Here in europooria no one really gives a fuck as long as, let's say 50k left my bank account and only 40k came back, it's not like government is tracking my tradeogre trade history

wonder if someone here got caught for not paying taxes on shit like this, keep getting jew'd poor faggots

You can fuck yourself if you buy back in with everything you realized gains on in a prior year, and lose it all before you paid taxes on the prior year gains.
I think people fuck themselves the easiest by selling volatile Coin A for volatile Coin B without keeping track of basis, gains, and losses.
Just people trying to play trader and pretending they don't need to think about taxes until they cash out in USD. Realized gains/losses on Wall Street are taxable even if you don't withdraw the dollars back into your bank account, so why would make crypto so different?

>>11973751
2017 tax year was still like kind
2018 crypto to crypto

Just report gains when you cash out and nobody will fuck with you. It's literally impossible audit otherwise and the IRS can't waste their time and won't give a fuck if you are showing good faith reporting the cash gains.

>>11973854
Because wall street firms track all of that information trade by trade and send a statement to the IRS?

Sorry to break it to you but IDEX and Cryptopia aren't making tax statements for all of their users you mouth breathing retard.

>>11973662
This comment is another great example of the absolute state of burgers.

>>11973854
>I think people fuck themselves the easiest by selling volatile Coin A for volatile Coin B without keeping track of basis, gains, and losses.

To be fair nobody was really sure whether crypto-to-crypto counted as a taxable event or was covered under in-kind rules until very late 2017/early 2018 when the IRS posted firm guidance about the topic. You can say it was obvious, but it just wasn't, crypto has qualities of currency, asset, and real property and nobody had any fucking clue which rules applied at first.

>>11973903
Relying on others to report your earnings to the IRS?
Isn't a contractor responsible for reporting his own profits by tracking his own revenues and expenses, even if all his clients aren't smart enough to file a 1099-MISC for what they pay him? Or if his charge card issuer doesn't provide him a categorized list of expenses, does he get to fully deduct it all?
Sorry to break it to you, but your broker not tracking your activity for you doesn't absolve your responsibility for reporting it.

>tfw turned 100$ into 10 trillion during 2018 but now its down to 200$

What do guys make a payment plan of the 4 trillion i owe in debt?

>>11974021
Yeah but how often does the waitress or stripper not reporting half of her tips get prosecuted? I make twenty trades a day it's impossible for me to track the U.S. value of that over a year and it's even less possible for some 55 year old IRS boomer to. And they won't devote those kind of resources to squeeze an extra couple hundred bucks.

The fear mongering on this subject is ridiculous.

>>11974055
>I make twenty trades a day it's impossible for me to track the U.S. value of that over a year
That's why software systems do it.
Slavery is streamlined.

>>11973936
I agree that 2017/pre-2017 crypto could have genuinely screwed some smart people who have good defenses for like-kind exchanges.
But, Twitter guy in OP posted his revelation today. Screwing up tax year 2018 and fucking yourself over for April 2018 will be inexcusable.

>>11974086
>for April 2019
fixes

>>11974072
The burden of proof is on them to say you owe the money. Like I said, if a mid 50s incompetent government working boomer can calculate my actual liability more power to them. I'll give them my 5 ETH wallets and 7 exchange accounts and they can go to town. Meanwhile I'll be paying on what I cash out and what goes to my bank statements.

I'm sick of people like you scaring the dumb 18 year olds into thinking they're gonna go to prison for not reporting that extra $100 they made on a shitcoin trade.

>>11974055
So you want to play day-trader to make money, but choose to not track your activity for tax purposes because of your high volume and your broker won't do it for you?
Purposely reporting false tax returns is against the rules, and the IRS choosing to pursue some flavors of misrepresentation more aggressively than others doesn't give a free pass to anybody that wins(loses) the IRS examination lottery.
Are you worried about inaccurate reporting or just getting caught for doing so? Unfortunately for you, crypto is in the spotlight.

>>11973179
The filthy, Jewish, mongrel Rothschild's have a hand in this. The United States was a charade from the beginning. Time to escape overseas!

/thread

>>11974095
>I'm sick of people like you scaring the dumb 18 year olds into thinking they're gonna go to prison for not reporting that extra $100 they made on a shitcoin trade.
so you just don't know what you're talking about? Who said prison? is that what you're imagining? Most cases for inaccurate returns, the IRS just calculates the tax you do owe and any interest/penalties for not paying correctly on time. For some cases, penalties and/or interest can be abated or reduced if the IRS accepts your explanations for not paying.
Prison is for the people who defraud the IRS by purposely hiding income or reporting falsely to get undeserved deductions or tax credits

>>11973179
Never cash out, problem solved! Fucking use crypto for it's original intention to buy shit. Holy fuck I'm a god damned genius.

Burgers who earn under 80k do not pay capital gains.

Cryptos have been ruled commodities and new tax rules apply. You are spreading disinfo. I assume you are a shorter. Weak fud.

>>11973855
fucking this goddammit

>>11974267
>buy shit
if only..

>>11973179
This is only true if you cashed out to fiat, like actually sent $ to your bank account, then put it back in and it lost.

> started crypto in january
> tfw went extra-full retard and bought
almost exclusively /biz/ shit coins
> tfw down 66% on my initial
> tfw havent payed taxes in 4 years
> tfw ready to be assblasted in a few months

Something like $4-$5k in losses with well over 100+ transactions. what am I in for bros?

>>11973394
But you have to be smart about doing it in the same tax year. Retards got fucked last year when the market crashed in February and they realized they needed to do their taxes from 2017 a couple months later.

IRS does a poor job of capturing alternative incomes so you have nothing to be worried about. Didn't pay taxes on my crypto trades in 2015,16 or 17. Unlike you fucks I'm well in the green

>>11974274
>Burgers who earn under 80k do not pay capital gains.
Only if you're married and filing jointly. And you forgot to calculate in the standard deduction, because capital gains are based on taxable income, not what you earn(gross income)
AND only if the coins were held for at least 1 full year. Short-term gains are taxed at ordinary income rates

You are the disinformation

>>11974313

>>11974313
You can use those losses, if you "realize" them in 2018, to offset up to 3k of other income, like your wages.
You should keep track of the it because the excess of the 3k that you can't deduct can be deducted in future years using whatvis calles a "carry forward".

>>11973179
by that logic the state should own me money for my crypto losses

luckily im not a us citizen though

>>11974407
I have all of my tx saved, although the exact loss per shitcoin is a little fucky because it's hard to track losses when the price of ETH fluctuates as well as the shitcoin. I don't anticipate realizing gains or losses this year or anytime soon, ill just leave em be and ride it to 0.

So i can offset the $3k losses (if realized) from my income tax, but what about transaction taxes? I appreciate the help friendo, I'm an absolute retard with taxes but i'm pretty capable in other areas so if you want to say "fuck off read the tax code" i'll do it if you could point me to a section but for now I dont have the foggiest idea where to start.

>paying taxes

>>11974313
>started crypto in january
there is your problem, not buying biz memecoins

>>11973179
you just have to pay gains on the amount you pull out, period.

>>11974567
this

>tfw never gonna pull out

>>11974558
Yes it most definitely was, First buy in was at $13k. Thankfully I DCA'd so I didn't get totally rekt and my later "investments" were substantially less garbage than the earlier ones. If I would have went all in on the coins I bought in early January i'd probably be around 90% losses

>>11974605
at least you got something. I entered September 2017, 6x my money and gambled it all on bitmex in March when everything was going down (right before the alt run in April/May). Lost it all. JUST

>>11973179
So when you make money they come to collect but when you lose money they won't give you anything. Now this is how fucked up it all is.

>>11974240
I'm just mad that literally nobody else is paying taxes and I get raked over the coals and treated like a criminal. Its still less than 5% of the people reporting at this point.

>>11974548
There's a catch. I put realized in quotes, because it is an important term that has a specific tax definition. In U.S. crypto world currently, you realize a gain or loss every time you exchange a coin that has changed in value since you bought it, so it's not really a choice whether or not you realize the losses on the transactions you've already made.
Unfortunately for simplicity, for high volume trading like yours, if you ever exchanged OUT of a coin XYZ that lost value since you bought it, and then exchanged back IN to that same coin XYZ within 30 days of previously exchanging out for a loss, then you cannot recognize that loss yet and the loss gets added to your basis. This is the "wash sale" rule, and it has to do with the importance of tracking "basis", which is something to learn as well (but not difficult).
The basis is basically your starting point to determine if you have a gain or loss when you sell.
A simple wash sale plays out like this:
>bought 1 unit XYZ for $100 6/30
>sold 1 unit XYZ for $70 9/15 ($30 loss recognized (70 proceeds minus 100 basis))
>re-bought 1 unit XYZ for $70 9/25
Instead of the new basis of $70 for 1 unti XYZ, since you had a wash sale, the original loss of $30 is added to your new basis of to make it effectively $100 basis and no loss previously recognized.

Depending on how often you added fiat money to your wallet, how frequently you bought in and out of the same coin, and whether you were always all-in on one thing at a time or split your funds across different holdings, your situation can be simple or more tedius to sort.
At the end of the year, your best efforts to report accurately are the most important.
Since you started in 2018, the MOST SIMPLE way to sort everything is to start fresh before Dec 31: exchange everything to USD and don't buy back in for 30 days, and the value of [all the USD you put into coins minus the value in USD you got back out] would be the loss you recognize.

>>11974995
[continued]
but I think keeping track of every USD you put into crypto this far, and doing your best to track the values as you trade in and out of coins going forward is the most important.

>>11974995
>>11975044
First, fuck yeah dude you rock, appreciate it.

Second, thanks for your clarification on "Realized" gains/losses. I was under the impression "realized" meant cashing out so that clarification is very helpful. But yeah what you discussed is the thing I've been having the most difficulty with. Mostly because most of my TX history is in SAT/GWEI value and not USD, so tracking gains/losses in USD becomes insanely hard.

I appreciate the advice to just start over 12/31 and wait 30 days, but I'm too paranoid of missing some shit in that month to risk it. I think i'll just try and rely on the "good-faith" effort caveat most of these tax reporting codes have and hire some crypto-accountant handle the shit the best they can. Doesn't seem reasonable to expect laymen to track this shit when the infrastructure is still its infancy

>>11974858
To be honest, you'll likely only get caught by the IRS is if they find your income you didn't report. You don't get treated like a criminal if you owed tax you mistakenly didn't calculate on your own return, but you don't get a free pass for not paying what you legally owe just because waiters and people paid in cash "under the table" can hide their income easier.
It's like getting ticketed for rolling a stop sign when you know countless people are speeding on the highway without getting ticketed. It feels unfair, but you still owe the traffic fine.

Just in case you're curious or didn't know, the taxpayer (not the IRS) has the burden of proof when it comes to proving new money shouldn't be taxed as income.
For example, by sheer unluckiness, you are randomlying inspected by the IRS, and you have a 50k deposit into your bank account this year from a check written by Broker ABC. You got this check because you cashed out of a coin/stock you bought for 40k 2 years ago. If you did not report this information on your return and/or you don't have any evidence/explanation to convince the IRS you only earned 10k of gains instead of 50k of brand new money, the IRS can assess this 50k as income. Same thing with a waiter pocketing 10k of cash tips in a year: if the IRS does look at their bank account and see deposits totaling 10k more than their tax return said, and the IRS thinks this 10k is tips, they will assess the reauired taxes and maybe penalties and interest.
This is why it is in the taxpayer's best interest to keep good evidence and prepare your tax return as accurately as possible. Most people get away with hiding some income, but it's not a fun if you're caught.

>>11975239
>>11975044
>>11975145
>>11974995
>>11974189
Can't wait to get out of this shithole, literally the only thing I care about if I make it.

Non-burgers, suggest somewhere for a fully huwhite burger to go that's less of a nightmare. Is there even anywhere else left?

I'm so sick of fucking being here FUCK

>>11975145
>my TX history is in SAT/GWEI value and not USD
That's definitely the most tedious part of tracking. A defendable way to do it, according to the regulations, is to see the SAT values on the day (or nearest day) of the transaction, and use the average of the highest and lowest value in USD for SAT to make a conversion.

I'm personally in a situation where I sold all the stocks I was gifted as a baby/young child by my grandfather, and the broker holding them for me does not have any original cost/basis data or information on when they were bought.
I'm doing my best to gather up any evidence to make my best estimation for my basis in these stocks to report on my 2018 return. If the IRS looks my way and doesn't agree with my explanation or estimation due to lack of my supporting evidence, they can choose to assign their own basis to these stocks (including $0 basis).
Stock brokers didn't always have to track basis info like they do now, and even now, sometimes basis info gets lost or messed up on the broker side. Even in these cases, it is still technically the responsiblility of the taxpayer to have the evidence.

>>11973179
You have to be completely retarded to denounce yourself to the IRS so they can stick you a debt, it's golem tier goyimness. Especially since 99% of coins are traded on shady chink exchanges, only way to get rekt is that if you only traded on exchanges where you did a KYC, otherwise it's lost in the abyss.

>>11975367
LOL, you can even prepare your tax returns for free if you take the time to learn. If not, and your situation is more complicated than a salary/wage job and some low-volume investing, you pay up to a few hundred dollars for a Certified Public Accountant to prepare your return for you.
Or, you can go to Europe, where taxes are only a fraction less burdensome to calculate, but you owe a fair amount more.

>>11973751
How is the IRS going to get crypto exchange data from Communist China? Serious question.

>>11974240
Do you think the IRS is staffed by people who are more competent and dedicated than those at the DMV? Serious question

>>11975524
They orobably won't from a China-only organization, if the organization has no other reason they would want to play nice with the US Govt.
The IRS usually gets their info from forms sent to them

>>11975522
Who said I wanted to go to Europe, they are oppressive shit holes too.

It's not just taxes, its look how the SEC denies an ETF for "investors protections" but have allowed all sorts of failed shit to ruin lives and did NOTHING.

Not to mention American """""culture""""" is just all niggers and guilt at this point. I'm so sick of having been born in a major west coast region, I've seen enough unironic goblin mutts and goying in my lifetime for 10 lifetimes.

The worst part is all of the awful humans in this shithole will inherit Americas vastly overpowered position in the next 50 years.

I really hope something causes this place to shit the bed after I'm gone for the sake of saving the world from its madness. I hope airborne ebola develops from all the refugees they're gonna bring in and wrecks half the cities or something.

I mean doesn't binance only have the last 3 months of trade history in a report. I can't pull anything earlier than August 2018.
>>11975631
True I just want to make it and retire on some small white island somewhere.

>>11975571
I don't know much about the DMVs. DMVs are also state-run. IRS is Federal
Depending on the position, IRS staffers that interact with people do have to be very knowledgable, but IRS processes, like most government-funded things.

>>11975707
>like most government-funded things.
...are slow

>>11974359
It's called aging.

>>11974189
Not from the beginning, but from when Woodrow Wilson handed over control of the US money supply to the Fed. You managed to fight them off several times but in the end they got you. Andrew Jackson was the greatest anti central bank president in history.

>>11973855
This this this
How fucking retarded is biz

how does this work for a dual citizen asking for fren???

dont you get 90k in tax credits??

do you really have to report EVERY trade?!?!?!

hilarious how it's the republicans that put these taxes into effect and how socialist europe actually has the common decency to give you a reach around when they fuck you in the ass and only tax net profits

libs are like "trump only cars about the rich," i wish

https://www.cryptotrader.tax/blog/the-traders-guide-to-cryptocurrency-taxes

this site says you can subtract your losses from your gains??

so how is this any different from taxing net profit like in yurop?

>>11975853
>hilarious how it's the republicans that put these taxes into effect
They didnt though jackals, once you discount the Republicans in name only, nobody really has Congress that's why nothing is still getting done.

The only times in 100 years when the debt has gone down ever is when Republicans have a SUPERmajority in the senate. The house doesnt even matter, and anything less than a supermajority is still fucked statistically.

>>11974333
Why are you here? Irs, shorter or cpa? What is your angle? Snd we know better than "just concerned" get real.

>>11975877
>he still thinks neoconjobs are fiscally responsible and want to decrease the size of government besides 6 trillion in wars and the most draconian police state that will fuck you in the ass for your narco terrorist coins


god i know how good it must feel to have this fantasy that there really is some big powerful man that is defending your interests in the arena of government

must be like eating a steak dinner in the matrix?

>>11974333
This guy is more or less correct.

has anyone here renounced their citizenship??

what's the likelihood of them auditing you when you do?? how can you speed up the process?

is it better to pay the 200k IRS fine for not correctly reporting your gains so you don't have to divulge your trading history and anonymity?

like say you really lost your trading history but you hit lambo land and you want to move to an island and renounce your citizenship?? Would it be gud to just pay the estimated tax on your overall gains plus the 200k instead of giving up your privacy??

>>11975920
Of course they arent now retard but it's a statistical FACT that back to 1913 the debt has only gone down under those conditions.

Maybe try doing some research instead of just reading r/politics and chapotraphouse to be fed your opinions and bad memes next time

>>11976053
did i say republicanism was bad in general???

>hurr durr you don't support the dear leader so you are a libtard/leftist

statists sycophants gonna statist sycophant i guess

>>11974287
>>11975767
it was never actually like kind. they just clarified that it wasn't because retards got confused.

>>11976199
So how does bakkt work then? I have to pay 40% tax on my frappe pluse 8% sales tax?

>>11973179
also it's illegal to own Tether if you are a US citizen by their own ToS https://tether.to/legal/

>Furthermore, residents of certain U.S. states are not permitted to be customers of Tether; are not permitted to cause Tethers to be issued or redeemed; and, are not permitted to hold Tether Tokens.
>Beginning on January 1, 2018, Tether Tokens will no longer be issued to U.S. Persons.

If you don't want to pay taxes just be Jewish or a Mason, both are exempt.

>>11976220
then how does bittrex use tether if they are based in seattle??

>>11976220
i dont know for sure so this isn't official advice but i think US person may only be limited to residents of the united states

Is this a joke, like locking ledger prices or pretending csw is Satoshi?

also i think, but not sure so not official advice, that huobi only has restrictions against US residents and says nothing of us citizens

>>11976355
>>11976503
you do with this info as you will but for me those ToS raises the biggest red flags i've ever seen for tether

>>11976161
>Imagine not supporting the Pauls
>Imagine not wanting to own one of these clocks
>Imagine being so brainwashed by the media you shill against Trump as if that will help people like based Rand's position
wow sort yourself out happy hanukkah

>>11973179

What?

So lets say my $100 goes to $200, I just made 100%, but then *crash* drops from $200 down to $5...

Uncle Sam comes knocking for his slice of the 100% profit that no longer exists?

>>11976672
Yes, but I believe you could write off that $195 loss so long as you don't buy it back and make the money back

>>11974995
wash trade rules DO NOT APPLY to crypto. LOOK IT UP, there are articles bitching about this from commie leftists

>>11976672
If you made $100 gain in 2018, sold it and realized that gain in 2018, and did not have any losses to offset that gain in 2018, yes you will owe taxes on that $100 by April 2019.
If you "reinvested" and lost $195 of your $200 but didn't sell to realize that loss until 2019, you are still on the hook for 2018 taxes, but can deduct $195 in 2020 when you prepare your 2019 return.
tl;dr don't lose all your money before you paid your taxes if you have net realized gains at the end of a year.
>>11976697
I'll take your word for it.

>>11973179
>paying taxes on money you don't have
Like they're even going to bother auditing some broke-ass autist living in his mom's basement because he didn't pay taxes on his now 10 cents worth of internet monopoly money. If you actually do this you are truly the goodest of goyim.

>>11973179
Stupid mutts just give up your mutt citizenship & move away from that shithole! Least free nation on earth!

>>11973798
Seriously unless you make a gorillion dollars and immediately transfer it to your bank account you're never going to get audited. It's like a 1 percent chance for people that make under $200k.

No shit a onions boy superhero fag likes taking it up the ass

>be wagecuck
>pay taxes on money you dont have

>>11976636
>thinking supporting Trump is supporting Ron Paul
>thinking Rand is as good as his father even if he is just less bad than neocons

wew.. keep making excuses for your cuc.kism

>>11974267
Yeah, except there's literally no way to spend it. If there was a debit card you could load up to spend then your plan would work out.

>>11976613
it's really confusing and there ARE contradicting rules and statements.. if that's what you need to make an excuse not to try and "make it" so be it but there are ways to mitigate the risk without giving up completely and it's true that you have plausible deniability considering the conflicting and contradicting information and statements and just the logic that there are exchanges in the US using tether.. although there might be a corporate loophole so you might be able to own it legally with an LLC

but yeah i think the biggest risk is getting your account frozen and there are ways to mitigate that risk

>>11976613
also tether fudding in general is bad

>>11973179
Taxes are due at the time the gain is realized. If you owe more taxes than what you have left you simply gambled away a loan to the IRS.

>>11977313
>implying crypto to crypto is a realized gain

>>11977086
>don't support anyone goy! Just stay home!
Happy hanukkah!

>>11977513
>lick the statist in chief's boots when he fucks you in the ass for every single crypto transaction you've ever made or youre not a real libertarian