/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11944846
thats why they want all your cheap bitcoin anon
it will be their money and we will be left with their shit fiat system and pollution unloading cars

>>11944872
you could live under a dome sipping clean artificial air on earth for fraction of the cost

>>11944889
i think that will be the testing stage anon

>colonize a wandering star
Good one globetards

>>11944905
>doesnt believe in evolution

>>11944846
It's imperative that we colonize space in order to diversify risk. Who's to say that we won't end up nuking the shit out of each other here on earth? We need extraterrestrial colonies to ensure the survival of our race and a future for our children.

>>11944846
As long as they can pave the way for future generations, I don't really care. It's hard for people to understand that there must be sacrifices in order to continue growing as a species. Their money will mean nothing in a colony on a different planet, and the scientists and engineers sent with them will lay the foundations for what could possibly be the most important mission in human history.

>>11944960
its happening soon anon
china and russia about to get btfo on this tradewar

>>11944960
yeah and cosmic accidents also

>>11944965
their wealth means control over supplies that are crucial for an early colony they will be like kings lords over life and death

>a couple hundred thousand is "rich"
kek

>>11944987
Their attitude will shift. They may leave our world a greedy asshole, but the minute they see earth as a tiny dot in the void, they will have quickly realized that they have the opportunity to help the entire human race.

The most desolate areas of Earth like the Mojave Desert and Antarctica are far more hospitable places to live than the surface of Mars. Maybe in a few millennia after Mars is terraformed it will be nice but not now. Mars colonists will have to live inside small metal habitat tubes and can't go outside unless wearing a bulky spacesuit. It will be like living inside a cramped van or camper forever and never being able to really go outside. The rich are welcome to go live on Mars if that's what they want.

You believe in Santa too OP?

>>11944965
Common sense isn't welcome here

>>11945080
yes, and?

>>11944846
I live in a highrise and we have 100% air-conditioning, a huge air filter, a deodorizer, an oxygenator, a dehumidifier and we have separate doors to maintain internal environment in our apartment building. Basically a bubble but poor people can't tell it's a bubble. Most rich people have been living like this for decades. House to air-conditioned car to air-conditioned office. You poor people just don't know. Pic related is my home, don't bother googling it.

>>11945164
>I live in a highrise

Oh yeah man. Everyone is so jealous of your "bubble" lmao

>>11945017
i don't think human nature really changes. they will convince themselves it's for the benefit of all to lord it over there fellow men. there must be order someone must make the tough calls etc... the rich will only have more power in space as they control the lifelines and distribution.

>>11945218
>i don't think human nature really changes.
Yes, in fact, it does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect

>>11945076
>Mars is terraformed
that's pretty much impossible as things stand. you would need to kickstart the iron core of the planet or create an artificial shield against solar wind. both are enormous enough projects to be practically impossible.

>>11945164
Napeansea Road, Mumbai?

>>11945247
There are many problems with the idea, including what you've mentioned. Mars' atmosphere is also paper thin compared to our own, and the lack of pressure would kill any human without a pressurized suit. It would, however, be more feasible to start a colony near caves and mountains, as this would guard from the radiation that would make it through the atmosphere. Another problem is the lack of gravity. No one truly knows what effects this has on the human body over a timeline that spans generations. And then obviously, the lack of finite resources such as oxygen, water, and food. I feel as though that could be solved relatively easily compared to the other problems though. I may be wrong though.

>>11945301
i was specifically talking about terraforming. that requires you to deal with solar wind. mars has a thin atmosphere because the sun blows it off constantly. just camping there in underground bunkers is obviously doable.

>>11945236
if this were true, then why are the states (a new continent = planet colonized) starting to be hostile towards europe? or anyone for that matter? wouldn't the "overview-effect" make them want to play world police? by use of force (e.g. accelerating an object to near the speed of light and crashing it into earth), because use of force is ultimately the most realistic (if unromantic) solution to problems, which at the same time also comes natural to humans. with the truth ultimately being that you will have populated space with future enemies capable of independent thought, instead of having sent mere drones.

i find all this to be very naive.

>>11944960
>We need extraterrestrial colonies to ensure the survival of the huwhite race and a future for huwhite children.
fify

>>11945247
The level of sophistication of modern AI was nothing but a sci-fi pipedream only a couple of decades ago. Autonomous cars, advanced 3D-printing, genetic modification was seen as a distant pipedreams while today we take it for granted. My point is, we underestimate the ingenuity of the human race and the pace of technological innovation.

Add to that that in a couple of years all of the human race will have access to the internet and subsequently all possible information that they would need to educate themselves and innovate. Couple that with the democratization of venture capital, which will give these entreprenours the money and tools that they need to fulfill their goals.

What you've mentioned is impossible by today's standards, but at the end of the day it's only a technological barrier and we will solve it within a decade or two.

>>11944846
>rich people want to move to a desolate place with no place to spend their money
why would they want to do a dumb thing like that?

>>11945337
You're right. Remember, solar winds also rip through our atmosphere as well. Not as much because of the giant magnetic field, but it still does. That's not related though. So to expand on what you've said, it's a huge problem. Let's say that theoretically, we have constructed a machine that can generate a magnetic field that emulates one similar to earth's. We still have no means of gaining an atmosphere, as the matter that once made up mars' atmosphere is long gone. So a new atmosphere would have to be put in it's place somehow. Also, I'm not sure of the math at the moment, but I'm not entirely sure if mars' gravity would even allow for a dense enough atmosphere to allow humans to live without pressurized suits and habitats.

>>11945376
nah it's not that we can't figure out how to do it it's a lot of doing. a planet is huge. we haven't accomplished anything anywhere near that scale. and you actually need to move that infrastructure to mars... which as it stands could start with a few 10 tonnes of payload per decade.

>>11945247
Terraforming Mars will be trivial once we become a Kardashev Type 2 civilization but that's thousands of years in the future. Anyone wanting to permanently emigrate to Mars right now is an idiot. Living on Mars will be like living in a cramped stinky locker room surrounded by unbreathable vacuum with very little water for drinking and bathing.

>>11945368
Did you even read the wikipedia page? Or are you just that retarded?

>>11945408
if you got magnetosphere the planet can start catching interstellar gasses on it's own, and also possible to melt frozen co2 and methane and if we find ice we can in theory do something about water. the greenhouse effect and some early specialized life forms over a few thousand years might have a surprising transforming effect on the surface of mars. we would probably start with nuking the place first.

but... without a magnetic shield it will never happen. and the size of the magnet that can generate such powerful shield is well known. it's a fucking spinning planetary core full of iron. anything smaller than that will not cut it.

>>11945412
nah, a type 2 civilization still can't build a planetary shield trivially. it would take everything they have and more.

>>11945410
Perhaps we won't need to "fix" the whole planet, maybe we can start off with making a small area habitable and build it from there. Again, it may seem impossible today but with the rate of technological innovation and with the help of ever improving AIs we will make it happen.

As for the infrastructure, the obvious solution is that we bring advanced 3D printers in the initial journey and use them to build out the required infrastructure on Mars using Martian materials. We're already able to 3D print houses on earth TODAY, there's no reason to doubt that we'll be able to advance that technology and apply it to various other important pieces of infrastructure or materials.

>>11945453
All they have to do is build a Dyson Sphere around Mars and use the energy impinging on its surface to do whatever.

>>11945459
3d printing requires the raw materials in a highly processed form. that requires it's infrastructure for anything bigger than repairs. the main utility of 3d printers in the early days is you won't know what will break but you won't have to bring spares of everything if you can build from common set of materials and chips you probably able to save weight. but again you got to take the printers with you. so no, that will not be a solution to massive infrastructure boom on mars.

also you can't really transformer a planet partially if it has no adequate atmosphere. if your only problem is temperature and moisture sure, you can zone your biomes.

>>11945076
Spacesuits are looking good right now brah, they're not the 50s versions. Check out musky's spacesuits they're dope

We are already living in cramped apartments playing vidya and trading all day, why not do the same on Mars?

>>11945472
>All they have to do is build a Dyson Sphere around Mars
yeah that's my point. that's a colossal project even just building a planetary ring composed of solar panels and docking stations would take thousands of years of great effort for no immediate benefit. we really are nowhere yet.

>>11945508
Have you looked into the potential habitability of Venus? Not the surface, but the clouds. Check it out, I think you'd find it interesting.

>>11945492
All fair point. My point is that as humans we tend to overestimate the short-term and underestimate the long-term, we assume that the pace of technological innovation will follow the same pace as today when, in fact, it is accelerating. There's no telling what kind of feats that the human race will be able to achieve in 20-30 years and I'm optimistic that we'll find a way to make establishing extraterrestrial colonies feasable.

>>11945508
Dyson sphere around a tiny planet like Mars is piece of cake for a Kardashev 2 civilization. The only problem is we're several thousand years away from that level of technology.

>>11945535
I fucking hope so man. That is literally all I want in life. I want to be alive to see another human being step on that rock and claim it as ours.

>>11945537
no it's not, just because you control the resources of a solar system you can't magically rape the laws of thermodynamics the mass energy equations, and economy.

a self replicating dyson swarm (basically sppace stations that can build theri won replicas) is mathematically and physically possible but the wide variety of raw materials still need to come from somewhere assuming the power would come from the sun the process is automated and a station lives longer than 1 generation.

while you can imagine such a system to exist it requires a completely different level of technology. living on ships and stations in the middle of nowhere like nomads is about a hundred billion times easier and cheaper.

which is why i'm skeptical of any terraforming projects that can't simply use a bunch of nukes and purpose bread microbes.

on the other note we can terraform our own planet rather easily. since the conditions are ideal we really only need to control the temperature. by putting dust into the upper atmosphere we can cool the planet and by emitting greenhouse gasses we can warm it. so long earths core is in good condition we can live on it there won't be a whiteout (which was pretty much guaranteed sans intelligent life)

>>11945557
Who knows what will happen but either way, it will be very interesting to see the future unfold. We're living in the most fascinating time-period in human history, it's pretty amazing.

>>11945613
It's not that hard really. They can just disassemble part of Jupiter and use that for raw materials to build the mini Dyson sphere around Mars. Maybe even collapse part of Jupiter into a black hole and use that to transport mass instantaneously from Jupiter to Mars orbit.

>>11945557
technically we did that with the moon

>>11945653
>It's not that hard really.
well if you abandon science and go full fantasy, sure it's not that hard.
it would be cooler if we could do something about the solar wind on a more localized scale. like a giant particle cannon gaining it's power from fusion and fired into the solar wind diverting it around mars kinda like how the solar wind meets and diverts the galactic wind.
it scales better because you only need a single point superstructure that is less effected by tidal forces and everything else and let particles do the job.
we could also put a gigantic magnet to the L1 point of mars but this magnet needs to be very big and strong and kept in position.
these are more realistic, and allow us to let nature do the heavy lifting of terraforming an entire fucking planet.

>>11945164
Business bay in Dubai?

>>11945412
>>11945453
>>11945472

You guys got it all wrong. Mars doesn't need a Dyson sphere, that's too much matter to put up there. What it needs is an autonomous solar shield magnetic umbrella comprised of a small constellation of solar powered satellites between Mars and the Sun.

The further out you make it, the less matter and construction energy it will need to use to shield it from solar radiation.

The only thing missing from this equation is an em drive to keep them properly aligned, but until then maybe they can just work using propellants or solar sails

>>11945930
near the mar l1 point you don't need much effort to keep it in place but it's more like a ellipsoid volume than a cone. so you can't put it too far from mars.

>>11945984
I'm talking about multiple umbrellas further out, not satellites. They'd be a constellation of solar electromagnetic shields far out in space

>>11945930
>if only we got an em drive
again fiction
i love how the last attempt turned out
>The researchers have tentatively concluded that the effect they measured is the result of Earth’s magnetic field interacting with power cables in the chamber, a result that other experts agree with.

>>11946017
you think you are going to be able to divert the same volume of solar wind with more stations for less energy than one station? i think physics does no support that. but i need to do calcs.

also like you said multiple stations can't all be at langrage point so you need drives to keep them in position.

>>11945653
>They can just disassemble part of Jupiter
You can't build a lot of things out of pure hydrogen

>>11946027
Like I said, it could also use light sails or a have an automated propellant supply line that keeps the constellation in place.

I wouldn't dismiss the emdrive though, anyone who has followed the project would know that there are shitloads of disinfo agents circling the project all the time

>>11946047
he probably meant the moons and the rings but man why would you fuck up something so beautiful and complex for a vanity project like terraforming mars?

Okay here is the best way to colonize Mars with current or soon to be developed technology. Just do some genetic engineering to allow humans to live in current Mars conditions. They might not to look very human but as long as they are comfy and happy on Mars that's all that matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyZ_fxftKvc

>>11946044
Each substation has a large solar sail facing forward in something like a 45 degree angle, it should slow them down enough to keep in place with the planet...

IDK if that would work obviously, I'm just thinking out loud. What I do know is that making an automated supply chain for drones to deliver hydrogen for ion drive fuel on the stations wouldn't be that complicated once we become a space faring civ

>>11946062
i will dismiss the em drive until it's absolutely irrevocably proven to work. even then i might need to see it with my own eyes. it's kinda like proving god exists. i would need very concrete proof.

again energy, you use light sails to keep them in place which are basically gigantic drives of their own need to be kept in place or the atmosphere reduces them to about zero effectiveness...

then you get to the problem of flow and geometry of the smaller disperse dipole magnetic fields.

nah, 1 well placed adequately scaled magnet is probably the most cost effective way to do it. both in effort and energy to sustain the shield and level of protection. best would be if the magnetic containment of the fusion reactor itself would provide the magnetic field.

>>11946065
The moons are not really interesting to mine, after all you got the Belt and Mars itself to mine if you need eyther materials or oxygen. What is lacking is hydrogen and carbon.

>>11946106
>best would be if the magnetic containment of the fusion reactor itself would provide the magnetic field
the way you can imagine this, is a giagantic dildo floating in space surrounded by a ring the dildo provides a magnetic containment (and also shield) the ring is hollow radiated energy is utilized on the surface and fusion is taking place inside. you probably need a superconductor coil (not unfeasible by today's technological standards) to make it all work. the energy from fusion must sustain the magnetic field.

why do good threads like this die while retardation thrives?

the economics of space habitat and travel are of great interest to me.

You are all gonna die up there

>>11946826
that would be glorious
i will die down here tho like a maggot

>>11944846
I hope they succeed. This is the only way for capitalistic society to enter space age.

btw i think ceres station got early established life outside of earth pretty well. poorfags gonna be absolutely miserable there will be no free shit not even air and water. everything will be rationed all the time and you will barely scrape together what you can live on. that's what happens when resources are scarce.

>>11946937
i meant in the expanse series sorry. you don't see the sky only tunnels and rock, and artificial lighting. low g fucks up your body, pale scrawny deformed, fucking morlocks basically.

>>11944960
++

>>11945164
Thank god I live in switzerland so I can go outside and enjoy air free of pollution and not sit inside some little apartment all day.

>>11944960
Why do we need to "preserve" the human race? Who gives a shit if some few strangers survive if all the rest of us are about to die? I never understood this nonsense

>>11944846
I don't blame them. I wouldn't want to live on a planet that is probably going to globally become communist. I would move to space, glass the earth and kill all the poor people so there won't be any communists, and come back when it's safe

>>11947399
it's your dna which is actually a parasite you carry it dictates your moves to insure it's survival. it makes you do crazy shit like sacrificing yourself for the future generations and stuff. it only cares about you so long you are useful carrying and spreading it. it makes you yearn human company and coupling. when people internalize these instincts these nudgings that's when you arrive to conclusions like that i guess.

>>11946937
Why would resources possibly be scarce up there?

Would Satoshi be the bullied nerd in the billionaires club?

>>11947461
because at first most things will come from earth then at least the equipment processing them will come from earth, while needing a lot of manpower to progress rapidly so fundamental resources will be very scarce in the expansion period.

it's not like there are no elements or anything it's just insanely costly to mine transport and process them. we don't even have large scale technology for processing most shit in low g, they fucked around with stuff in skylab but that wouldn't even make a car engine block.

>>11944900
Sounds promising. An inverted world with all the people I hate living in squalor outside my impenetrable bubble while I lavish in the comfort of my recycled air and artificial sunshine, eating mres and drinking my own recycled urine.

>>11944846
We will pool our LINK resources to fly a million niggers and 6 gmillion juice there
Mars will be finished

>>11947399
>caring about the survival of your people is non-sense

I guess if you're an egotistical sociopath it doesn't really matter.

>>11947429
If you want to reduce my love for my people and my family as a simple biological process then go ahead. You could rationalize love by the same logic but I think that's a very cold and mechanical way of looking at life and I disagree with it.

>>11947706
rationalize my love for my partner*

>>11945247
Don't tell elon this

Maybe a space based magneto could be designedx in such a way to be a concave, half spherical shield, position out in Lagrange between Mars and sun. Block wind from a distance.

Or just live underground and evolve into hyper rich mole people

>>11944846
When the high IQ martians come to attack us in 100+ years we'll be thoroughly fucked.

>>11947706
>If you want to reduce my love for my people and my family as a simple biological process then go ahead. You could rationalize love by the same logic but I think that's a very cold and mechanical way of looking at life and I disagree with it.
it's just something that was discussed at sociology class i was forced to take at uni that stuck with me. it was a theory about the "selfishness of genes" how they use the host body to propagate even if that is disadvantageous for the host organism it ensures the survival of the genome. how alturism we thought was a higher order concept is proven to be instinctual and observed in the animal kingdom. people usually look at animals when they think about evolution how they are adapted to their environment, but if you for a moment stop and think of them as vehicles carrying and spreading dna you will see a different picture.

>>11947722
>half spherical shield
nah magnets don't work like that... but almost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD3eqBYZcVE

>>11945930
Great minds think alike kek

>>11944846
>mfw i probably won't live another 100 years

we started 1900 with not knowing how to fly and not even 70 years later we landed on the fucking moon. today joe average lives more comfortably than the riches kings in the last 5000 years and we all have a personal oracle in the pocket.

i mean can you guys imagine where we'll be in another 100 years?

>>11947744
Yeah, I get it. I just think that reducing the value of it by saying that it is "only" due to biological reasons gives rise to a rather mechanical and detached perspective life. I'm not saying that this is what you meant, it's just that this is often an argument that is used to dismiss emotions due to it "only" being caused by certain hormones or what have you.

>>11947791
perspective of life*. I should really proof-read what I post, huh

>>11947761
what i like about this approach, is if we can do it with mars, we can do it with earth if need be.

>>11947732
upgrade your image, friend

>>11947820
ty

If all else fails, maybe we could just figure out how to produce an artificial black hole and just watch everything we love and hate about ourselves get hurled into a tiny rip in spacetime, forever frozen until the until the universe collapses into itself once again, goes critical in several areas (our galactic smbh's) creating yet another big bangers, releasing our former selves as hydrogen atoms and radiation.

That'd be alright with me

>>11947774
Who's to say that you won't? We can't even really imagine what the world will be like in 30 years, let alone 100 years. I think the chance of us developing tools to substansially extend our healthy years is quite significant.

Magnetic shield is of minor concern for Mars terraformation. It would take millions of years for a newly generated atmosphere to be blown away by the solar winds. Not to mention, generating the atmosphere is probably an order of magnitude more difficult than building a giant space magnet at L1.

>>11947791
You have a point. I have been viewing life from this mechanical prespective for a while now, and I feel that it takes away some of the present's power, if that makes any sense. Like one moment I may be feeling something and then the next I'm already thinking how I'm just a biological robot and this emotion was entirely predictable and expected, because feeling it as a response to something was already pre-programmed in my brain/body. Wish I wouldn't self-analyse to this degree and just stay in the present.

>>11947861
>produce an artificial black hole
Million times more difficult than anything else suggested in this thread.
>universe collapses into itself
This most likely won't happen.

>>11947774
What goes up must come crashing down though famalam

>>11944846
He thinks the best and rich are gonna go to a low gravity dead planet , earth will be the planet they will live on they will trick us into to going to mine for them

>>11947889
..said pink wojak at $3k BTC last year.

>>11947885
My troll science experiments are mostly the work of satire and or grandeur. None of the statements made by anon should be taken as evidence or fact, but instead should provide you with all the critical thinking skills required to be kinda cool

>>11947867
yeah which is why i wrote probably, however i dont think serious life extension will come along until at least another 30 years and that's a long time to not get a heart attack or cancer or whatever. chances are we'll all die just before we would have stopped aging.

>>11947889
im optimistic, i think we'll spread out to inhabit the universe or at least build our own habitats in space inside the milky way

>>11947944
>we'll all die just before we would have stopped aging
by we i mean my generation

>>11947932
Fair enough. Yesterday when I went to sleep, I wished Earth would be swallowed by a rogue black hole so I won't have to wake up.

>>11947958
Seriously though, say I had about tree fiddy supermassive black holes and i invited all of them to a party. They get together and form a megamassive black hole, the likes of which hasn't been dreamed of before. I stick my penis in it.

What happens next?

>>11947991
It would be extremely painful.

>>11947999
I think we both have autism, just different flavors of autism

>>11947881
I feel you, I used to be the same when I was a teenager. I think it's a very common perspective of life in the West.

What really resonated with me was the audioclips of Alan Watts, you've probably heard of him. But in case anyone hasn't, here's a very relevant youtube video that pertains to our conversation. I'm not trying to preach or anything though. I'm just saying that having listened to some of his thoughts regarding our usual perspective of life here in the West, I managed change my perspective of life in such a way that it fills me with a deeper sense of belonging and purpose. I guess you could call it an "organic" perspective of life rather than a "mechanical". It doesn't really do it justice because words are clumsy and it's hard to convey fundamental attitudes because you often have to experience it to understand what someone means.

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is, some of his talks made me question certain fundamental dogmas about how life works and what existance is and it had a positive impact on my life and overall happiness. Maybe it can give you some food for thought as well.

>>11948035
I forgot to link the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwsn9N3U59c

>>11948034
For you.

>>11948054
you're a big hardon collider

>>11948085
>hardon collider
I'm at a loss for words as to why I never made a connection between this brilliant play on words and that big magnet shaped like a butthole. Going to reconsider my life now.

Is to normal to want to have sex with a reusable rocket booster?

>>11944846
Test

>>11947881
i think it's good to be self conscious about these chemical processes. for example when you break up with someone and you just can't imagine your life ever returning to normal it's good to know it takes only 2 weeks for the pair bonding chemicals to clear out of your system.

>>11948172
what i'm trying to get here is understanding how alcohol affect your body and brain on an academic level does not take the buzz away. but it can help with hangovers.

>>11948172
Diamonds are forever, so is a lifetime of alimony. Pair bonding chemicals? Heh about 2 weeks faggot!

Every kiss begins with Kay

> Not investing in property on Mars, a market that booms in a few years

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrekt