/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11937460

B A S E D

But if you don't have at least a small bag of 0xBTC and ETH, you're gonna have some regrets.

>>11937460
LN is also why I'm a longterm bull.
Have you tried it yet?

>>11937460
BASED AND BITPILLED

>>11937475
>pic related

>>11937460

>>11937485
yes. our current banking system feels like the stone age now. How are we still writing checks and waiting 3 days for a wire transfer in the 21th century?

>>11937500
Have you heard of LN? Also with Liquid coming out shit's gonna get real sour for anyone not heavily invested in BTC.

>>11937500
You can't solve most of these problems without changing the hashing algo.
Centralization of mining via ASICs is certainly a problem, but market incentives could move to fix this as Bitcoin becomes more important.

I'd encourage anyone heavily invested in BCH to try out sending testnet BTC on LN.

t. 2015 BCH supporter.

>>11937556
It specifically addresses why LN and liquid are in fact weaknesses of BTC.

>>11937586
> t. 2015 BCH supporter.
Anon, I...

>>11937590
stay poor pajeet

>>11937460
>fuck all your shitcoins with no real world use.

In that case, I'm sure you're invested in SV then. The real Bitcoin.

Based and redpilled.
Did you know schnorr sigs can give a 20x speedup when batch verifying multiple blocks during initial sync? That's without aggregation (1 sig per transaction)
>tfw liquid network
>tfw lightning network
>tfw sig aggregation
>tfw betterhash algo for more decentralized pools

>>11937484
I have it's good but not great
I'm on the developer mailing list and 3 things need to be done for it to gain widespread adoption (AMP, watchtower, and tx factory)
watchtower will probably be done in a couple months AMP a few months after that but I haven't see any information on transaction factories
we have time but I don't know how long it'll take

but bitcoin is literally the only thing that matters in this entire industry
you're a fool for not having the majority of your holdings in it
yesterday at consensus invest all the biggest people disliked ETH and liked bitcoin

>>11937625
I'm talking about the original hard fork
year 2015 not price.

>>11937647
BCH didn't fork until 2017.

>>11937460
>dat brand recognition
>beautiful logo
>beautiful sounding name
quite the chad way of thinking you have there, I love it

>>11937627
> not an argument the post
dem shills.

>>11937460


>>11937630
Lmfao no way. Look at that fucking logo

take 12-15 hours and watch every consensus invest interview
these institutions know the "token economy" is fag bullshit only willy woo likes
anything using ETH took the easy route for fund raising and elected to use a less secure chain and will probably get shut down by illegal security regulators
also tokenomics is a meme the native currency of the internet is bitcoin all services will be priced in it not .2417 memetoken xyz

>>11937688
True, I'm referring to the dark times where discussion of these problems was limited to /r/btc before it became overloaded will shills.

>>11937722
>>11937586
Ah, well, that makes more sense then.
Regardless, the post you originally replied to makes it quite clear why lightning / liquid / offchain scaling with an artificially limited first layer in general is a model doomed to fail. Also pic related.

>>11937699
I stopped reading after it started shilling BCH and BSV or whichever one. Both of those are playing in the kiddie pool. Both are fucking trash, and if you sincerely believe that they will one day overtake BTC, I wish you a lot of luck.

>>11937754
>artificially limited first layer
for who big institutions? paypal services? miners?
you're a retard the entire bcash argument is ridiculous

>>11937586
And changing the hashing algo or any solution at all that relies upon 100% open access proof of work is not a solution, because the economically rational option in that situation is always to simply mine the most profitable chain, period. Doesn't matter if that's CPU/GPU/ASIC, whatever. You mine the most profitable chain, and that's what leads to the situation where the bulk of mining capacity can be recruited for hostile attacks on chains.

>>11937754
>you're seeing the pop of the fiat bubble
Stopped reading there.

>>11937803
Artificially limited as far as the network that actually provides the service. That artificial limit means that the transaction and settlement layers are artificially separated, which in turn means you can exploit the first layer by manipulating the other layers where all the tx volume actually happens pic related, fucktard.

>hey Stephanie, have you heard of cryptocurrencies?
>Oh, are you talking about Bitcoin?

mr you need a $30,000 node craig sv makes the system centralized as fuck
shit like S2X goes through when nodes cost $30,000 and whatever comes after miners and institutions are the only keepers of the ledger

>>11937856
lol yeah wouldn't want to support a centralised system, christ what a fucking retard.

>>11937810
That's essentially an argument for PoS (which I'm not a fan of personally).
This criticism can be applied to either side of a hardfork hence the hashwar.

Bitcoin Core isn't dead, and there are valid reasons for this.
Bitcoin Cash (whichever variant lol) as a space has lots of room to grow, and should focus on growing rather than tearing town it's already steep competition.

>>11937796
>>11937819
> muh stopped reading
Then you deserve what you'll get for taking pride in your ignorance.

>>11937460
shit was so (bitcoin) cash

>>11937887
>Thinking his shitcoin will overtake the King

>>11937850
you don't get it LN locks the on chain coins and the protocol and nodes follow a set of rules
everything is still legit while not being able to chain the rules on the 1st layer

the 1st layer needs to be verified by as many people as possible so if miners want to change the rules people can regroup and maintain consensus with a differ algo or whatever
the small blocks are insurance against rich people abusing the system
what comes after that takes some finesse with efficiency upgrades

>>11937880
It's not an argument for anything in particular, it's pointing out that a certain model is broken. There are many other arguments as to why POS and DPOS are also broken, and there are many experimental systems and hybrid systems also, for example BCH hash POW + checkpointing so it's not vulnerable to these kinds of attacks. One day it's pretty much a given someone will do a chain that you require keys to mine on and if you mint a block that contravenes the rules in a hostile attack you'll forfeit your mining key, that also would solve the issue.
The point is, BTC is shit tier and broken.

>>11937460
50% BTC, 50% ETH

i'm comfy for 2020 (halvening + PoS)

>>11937875
lets so a big node in LN try to change the rules

now lets see big nodes try to change the rules on base layer

in LN you're penalized in bcash you profit

>>11937929
>>11937485
RSK will dumpster ETH. The next ICO bubble will take place on the Bitcoin blockchain.

>>11937918
I get it alright.
You assume that the nodes will adhere to the standard, despite the fact that in order for the system to work the topology guarantees a small set of centralised nodes which process the vast majority of routes. This is transparently vulnerable to collusion between those central nodes, who can manipulate the supply between them as much as they like, as long as they don't overdo it and bring the system crashing down. And even if they --did-- overdo it and bring the system crashing down, a "Bank run" on the BTC bank with lightning looks like this; All the central bankers with all the bitcoin settle out their transactions first and liquidate because they can afford to settle on chain, and all the plebs stuck on lightning channels can't, and by the time they can, if they can, their money is worth shit.
The fucking --designer-- of Lightning acknowledged that this can happen. Look it up.

>>11937943
You just saw a big node in BCH try to change the rules. They failed miserably, and were heavily penalised for their efforts, and they can't even use them to implement the changes they wanted to by force anymore. LN though? fuck all you can do about it, your topology guarantees those nodes in the center will process the bulk of tx volume, end of story, suck their dick and deal with it or fuck off.

>>11937460

Yep. 1 bitcoin = 1 million USD by 2040

Everything else is shit

>>11937974
that's not how it works
who tadge dryja? If it's him he's not even actively developing on bolt spec he's working on lit

>>11938025
Yes it is, you're wrong.

Rusty Russell.

>>11937996
I don't even know what side of bcash you're talking about but both of those forks of a fork are centralized as fuck

>>11938040

>>11937754
Who the fuck cares if there will be tampering on layer 1, 2, 3 or 100. Of course there will be. Does anyone really think big banks and corporations will just let go, loose all their power and let us have an utopian society with our own decentralized money? Lol. Keep dreaming and stay poor. But the point is the underlying digital currency of all this will be bitcoin, not some fucking memecoin.

>>11938038
show me some proof faggot

No miners = no Bitcoin
Google "miners shut down"
BTC is literally unironically dead, I mean it's dying in slow motion since 20000 usd

>>11938040
Then you're too stupid to talk to. Bye faggot.

>>11937460
Absolutely useless pyramid scheme shitcoin.

If it does nothing and takes someone else paying more then you to make money then it's a pyramid scheme.

>>11938072
typical cashie makes up some bullshit and leaves
now go post your image on another thread pajeet

>>11938051
https://archive.li/wIoSK
https://archive.li/lY3Hs

>>11938067
>He doesn't know that the difficulty of mining will readjust since there are less people mining it, thus making it profitable again.

>>11938088
Just because you're a 20k buyer and you weren't aware of this shit back years ago when everybody else was discussing it doesn't mean it's "made up".
You're just a fucking retard, kid.

>>11938078
In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.

A Ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. In a Ponzi scheme, early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters, and the late adopters always lose. Bitcoin can have a win-win outcome. Earlier adopters profit from the rise in value as Bitcoin becomes better understood and in turn demanded by the public at large. All adopters benefit from the usefulness of a reliable and widely-accepted decentralized peer-to-peer currency.[4]

It is also important to note that Satoshi Nakamoto, creator of bitcoin, has never spent a bitcoin (other than giving them away when they were worthless) which we can verify by checking the blockchain.

>>11938101
> he doesn't know that hashpower leaving must not exceed a certain speed or BTC gets assfucked.

>>11937460
i noticed the pic related. do you have a second to talk about the real bitcoin, bitcoin cash?

>>11938049
> Of course there will be.
Then there's NO FUCKING POINT fuckwit. It's just a shittier version of the present banking system. No value is protected, no advantage to the system whatsoever. And if that's the case, why fucking use it at all?
Only legitimate cryptocurrencies not vulnerable in that way are actually worth anything in this sense.

>>11938105
good one
you can't change bitcoin but your alt forks are garbage so keep crying
>>11938124
>he doesn't know bcash abused the EDA and mined 100k+ coins outside consensus while experiencing 8+ hours of downtime

>>11938124
Keep shilling your nonsense Roger's sockpuppet.

>>11938152
> a change to the consensus rules had a negative externality, I will pretend this was 8 hours of downtime and "abuse", despite the fact my shit tier coin consensus layer almost split because somebody removed a check and had to be corrected by one of those "useless" bcash devs you so commonly harangue.
Neck yourself fuckhead.

>>11938160
Not an argument.

>>11938192
good one
but also conveniently forget a bitcoin dev saved bcash a month before that bug was found and they returned the favor
there were like what 6 or 7 of those 8 hour downtimes to halve the difficulty which resulted in an additional 100k+ coins being mined with halved difficulty
it was total bullshit and you know it

>>11938200
I get it you want bcash to be like paypal but that isn't what bitcoin is
it's much more than that

>>11938192
>>11938200
https://bitcoinschannel.com/bitcoin-cash-abcs-rolling-ten-block-checkpoints-update-could-be-catastrophic/

>>11938233
They weren't downtimes fuckhead, blocks were still being processed, just not regularly, because of that EDA bug. Because miners mine what's most profitable.
Did your shitcoin chain have 24 hours of downtime on November 12 2017 when you lost 90% of your hashpower because BCH was more profitable? If not, shut the fuck up, you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>11938264
That's literally the only thing bitcoin is, because as acknowledged by even the fucking designer of the shit, it can be manipulated just like shit tier fiat currencies that paypal uses. BTC is an abject failure, much like you. You're a load that should've been swallowed.

>>11938306
How much does Roger pay to be his sockpuppet?

>>11938305
> fearmongering analysis from core shitcoin media source that doesn't even take into account the difficulty penalties on deep re-org attempts which make their proposed scenario impossible.
Yeah nah get fucked you stupid cunt.

>>11938306
>>11938322
you don't get hope you don't have too much invested

>>11938329
> Projection.

>Smelly BCH thinks it can conquer the Bitcoin
That's what the ETH thought in 2012
That's what the banks and the speculators thought in 2014
The various shills and money-changers throughout the decade since the beginning
The Governments of the world
and countless other fools

Bitcoin beat you all, and set us free. The only force that could bring Bitcoin to it's knees was it's own.

You think a brief dip from an ATH is the ultimate downfall?

Our code was forged in the better days of the net, tempered to be the archetype of money forevermore.

Bitcoin suffered drops, dips, crashes, flame wars and ruinous ideologies which sent us into darkness countless times.

and every time we felll, we found a way to rise again.

Do not mistake our cuts for mortal wounds or our slumber for a lifeless corpse, unless you want to make the same mistake that all other opportunistic hordes lost throughout the years have done.

So by all means continue with your heckling, continue with your defilement of our legacy, continue with your delusions of victory, the sooner you wake the sleeping giant the better.

It matters now what the price is when it happens, we have turned the tide against greater calamities before.

The entire web will once again feel the boom of it's greatest economic potential, perhaps this time in true unity, and perhaps this time to your lament, with less mercy.

>>11938363
> not an argument the post.

>>11938385

>>11938386

>>11938385
>>11938420

>>11938363
There's something hilariously ironic about an ignorant tool morphing a shitpost about the resilience of the white race into one about BTC, when in this very threat it's already a given proven accepted fact that the Jews own and have permanently subverted BTC.
It would be perfect poetic justice if the writer of this ends up dying for Israel. What better demonstration that a man is fit for nothing but slavery till the end of his days than to not only willingly submit to it in this way, but actually cheerlead it as if it were freedom?
Sad, but funny. The world is an amazing place.

>>11938465
I like you

>>11937460
unironically all-in.
fuck all your companies with no real world use.

>dat brand recognition
>beautiful logo
>beautiful sounding name
>AOL=internet for 99,9% of people
>scalable to unlimited broadband speeds once the network grows

>>11937500
>LOOK MOM I POSTED IT AGAIN

>>11937996
>adding arbitrary ass checkpoints
>not centralized
Your fucking shitcoin (both sides) is talking TIMBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER right now

>>11938506
Never gonna happen.

>>11938638
> arbitrary
> literally selected by proof of work
imagine this.

>>11938661
>centralize network in 3 "mining nodes"
>force software to do what USG wants
imagine this

>>11938678
That's BSV, not BCH.

>>11938678
Also, it's already well established that BTC must do what USG wants. If you read >>11937500
>>11937754
>>11937875
>>11938090
You'd know that.
But you're just a fuckhead, so I guess not.

>>11938698
Meanwhile in BCH

>>11938715
It's not possible with Lightning. For each satoshi on the Lightning network, at least one satoshi on the Bitcoin network is tied up and unspendable. Some other hypothetical off-chain systems could allow for fractional reserve. A sidechain could be fractional-reserve in the sense that there are more "bitcoins" on the sidechain than can actually be transferred back to Bitcoin proper, though typically this will mean that the sidechain's security has somehow failed.

>>11938791
Argue with the designer of lightning. >>11938090
The centralised hub and spoke topology guarantees it. You're deluding yourself if you think this is "just an accident".

ctrl+f xrp
NOTHING
ctrl+f ripple
NOTHING
this is just a btc vs bcash thread

>>11938698
>>11938715
That is literally what your fucktarded friend Ver wants to do with its Verconomics.

>>11938821
>Buying a centralized bankers coin thinking it's gonna outperform BTC.

>>11938832
> risk of failure vs guarantee of failure
Yep, going with the guarantee there is definitely the correct path forward fuckhead. And one year later and it's no more centralised than it was when it started out. Less so, in fact, because all the parts of BCH that could legitimately be accused of tolerating centralisation to the extent that quote allows for have been self-exiled to BSV.

>>11938868
> still trying to believe BTC is not a centralised bankers coin.

>>11938903
Even if it is manipulated right now, eventually it will not be. On the other hand, XRP has 60% of the tokens in the hands of the team and certain people they give it to.

>>11938919
> ignore the fact that the market is clearly manipulated, even if we end up at 542:1 fake to real BTC as with Gold, just keep pouring your purchasing power into that asset.
> nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan
> everything will magically work itself out
> because reasons
fuck me. I'm so glad I'm out of that shitcoin. This market will never function correctly while people like you have significant power.

>>11937640
Thanks for the useful info, anon

I'll research this and subscribe to the mailing list

>>11938964
gold and silver markets are manipulated, doesn't mean gold and silver are bad investments. When the recession hits, people are going to lose faith in the system and turn to BTC. There's a reason why Bitcoin was created in 2008.

LMAO the only real world use of BTC is for depositing on gambling sites. BAT is the only crypto people actually use for services. OP is a faggot

>>11939004
Physical gold and silver are probably decent investments now for when the tampering comes unstuck. Paper versions of either are a waste of time with an obvious end when that happens.
There's no such distinction to be made with BTC. All versions are equally fucked because they all rely on layer zero transactions which are being artificially priced out of the market as part of the tampering.

>>11938868
>1500 tps vs 7 tps
>3 second transactions vs >10 minute transactions
lol anon, it seems like it already outperforms bitcoin

>>11939047
What is LN?

This is a marathon not a sprint anon

>>11939044
BTC is the hardest soundest money there is. In the future we will be mining gold from asteroids, while Bitcoin is mathematically limited to 21 million.

>>11939072
Continue to completely ignore the fact that it's unquestionably and irrevocably kiked. Let's see how that works out for you.

So what is the end game to these people?
Do they believe all the sudden Fed is going to peg the dollar to bitcoins?
I mean that is the only way to bitcoin hodling to pay out big time

>>11939072
lightning network is a centralized piece of shit second layer "solution" based on trust and doesn't even work

>>11939167
> lightning network is a centralized piece of shit
Although you're right, how does this matter since you're advocating for Ripple?

>>11939465

>>11937460
>scalable to unlimited transactions

Do you think that's an argument?

>>11939507
And when the central banks / state decide to crack down on XRP by simply issuing NSL's to the parent company with demands, what does that buy you?

>>11939590
>parent company
how are they going to shut down the nodes?

>>11939656
They don't have to if the parent company can just issue more XRP, or make whatever other changes to the protocol layer they demand.

>>11939763
>hey don't have to if the parent company can just issue more XRP
they can't issue more xrp or force nodes to run code they don't want

>>11938885
You are too dumb for Bitcoin. The fact that you will end up holding 0 BTC is a feature.

>>11937460
>Blockchain
>Scaleable
Pick one

>>11939044
People that can afford it don't care if you cannot afford it.

>>11939905
Gold bugs don't realize banks own most of the gold, and it is the longest running pyramid scheme.

>>11939905
>>11939884
You are too dumb for an actual legitimate version of Bitcoin. It is a feature you were diverted to your present shitcoin fork.
And it doesn't matter what people that waste money on illusions instead of the real thing care about, they're useless idiots.

>>11940097
Imagine believing this.

>>11940968
not an argument.

>>11941038
cope