/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>1185096
Ikr. Dont ask just assume they arent dumb enough to still be bagholding it.

That video is why everyone not holding at least 1 BTC in 2016 deserves a bullet to the brain.

Please leave your nocoiner short sighted retarded copes.

>>1185096
These people have the right idea.

nocoiner copes ITT

I feel like the stupidest asshole. Back in 2009 I was talking to all my friends about Bitcoin and how I was gonna jump into it....never did because I was young, poor and afraid to lose my money.

>>1185096
>People don't think bitcoin is going to live
Told pops about bitcoin and he replied with "Never buy bitcoin" and I discovered it was because some stupid financial radio guy talked shit about it.
Slowly losing all financial respect to my pops with that comment.
>>1185241
Sucks anon. I wish I had money when bitcoin was still going around. I would've jumped in on that shit so hard due to how smart the concept was.

>>1185241
You can jump on it now while it's still 3 figures and the potential is insane, or you can keep being scared an shortsighted.
Im assuming you got the fundamentals down and understand why it's the most valuable asset/commodity/whatevery you want to call it (and undervalued today) ever.
Otherwise you have no hope.

>>1185270
I have the same feelings. Last year it was so low at around $180-220. Now it's fucking $400+ flatlined.
Get your money exchanged into bitcoin, since more vendors are using it as currency and it's value will just keep growing.
There really isn't any loss in obtaining bitcoin, since it's just another currency type. Only the transaction fees are what would keep you back.

I want to start and set up a wallet on a thumbdrive. BItcoin core good for that?

Also I'm in the UK, do I need to send in ID to buy, or what's the easiest way?

Bit of a noob here.

>>1185241
well it's always bad to miss a good pyramid scheme in hindsight when it's obvious when you should have jumped in and jumped out.

lots and lost of people got badly burned on it tho.
>>1185270
>or you can keep being scared an shortsighted
said every pumper ever
thing is there is no telling where the price will go fads come and go, bitcoin might have the bright future everyone envisions or some announcement next week might result in a massive dump and everyone will forget it except for the bitter holders that got so badly burned they will never admit it's over.
with bitcoin there is no real support for the price. a $10 price is just as valid as a $1000 and the mass hysteria decides which will be it.

>>1185369
>Get your money exchanged into bitcoin, since more vendors are using it as currency and it's value will just keep growing.
that's just like your greed and anxiety talking. rationally it can go either way for a very long time.
it's equally possible bitcoin will start a slow decline and only jump to new highs in the next century.

>>1185432
>rationally it can go either way for a very long time.
I kinda see that.
At the moment though it is rising bit by bit, so it's not bad to have some ready to sell when it hits it's peak.
But overall it's not going to be lost is what I was trying to get at.
Investing into some bitcoin has no chance of turning into nothing.

>>1185448
you don't know when it hits peak and nobody buys at the peak you have to guess when it will be over and sell before the peak.
this is a gamble without inside information. those who speculate or pump it know this exactly they almost guaranteed to make money on it. you can get lucky sure or you can burn on gut feelings and being blind to what's going on really.

like a shitton of folks that said in 2013 to hold onto silver it will bounce back from $28! it will bounce back eventually maybe from $7 or $12 or it's bouncing back right now. no way to tell.

this is gamble and speculation not sure money. stop pretending it is.

you guys think you got it bad?

let me introduce my self, i was a bitcoin miner back in early 2011 with 3 ati 5990 GPU's running 24/7 for a month where i earned aproximatelly 20 in total (not everything was minned, i spent and earned some behind the counter hehe)

after the price crashed to a price closer to one-time-usable paper napkins i gambled them all to a dice game and lost most of them. The coping was almost out of hand in 2013 when i realized i could buy a cheap car for a price close to a baggie of weed

Today, i have about 0.13 btc from re-investment, 10% of my paycheck went into btc and im so sad that my job doesn't let me invest more and im not planing on spending that shit at before the price spikes to 10k or more.

>>1185472
ouch, I feel for ya anon

>>1185472
a fool and his money are easily parted

>>1185432
cope

>>1185547
educate yourself
on what cope means and on markets also

>>1185537
this is very true

fool me once, right?

>>1185472
Of course it's not a sure thing. The price will fluctuate, as long as you keep an eye out you'll be able to hold onto coins as the price goes up and sell when price begins to fall.

And again, what I am saying is that you are not losing money when investing in bitcoin because it is another currency, it's not really a stock since it is something you can use to purchase things with.
>>1185472
>20 coins now would be around 8K
Well damn that sucks anon. Should've held onto them a bit longer I supose. Why didn't you sellout when they were priced at 1K+?

>>1185472
>The coping was almost out of hand in 2013
Holy fuck I hope you are the same retard who always says "cope" and that you are just samefagging. I would hate to think there is more than one completly illiterate faggot on this board.

>>1185678
seems to me there are at least 3 of these retards.

>>1185678
>>1185680
this is correct im one of them
>>1185564
read it carefully once more, the price crashed to shit somewhere in summer 2011, the price boom was 2+ years later

>>1185687
Oh wait, then that means you had 20 coins when it got up to 1k per coin, you didn't sell on those prices? Or did you cash in?

>>1185687
Ok since the other retard never responds... you do understand that's not what cope means, right?

>>1185698
no, that means i mined when the price as about 12 dollars a pop, got depressed and gambled the rest of what i got into shit, sold my cards on ebay for 75% of what i bought them and said fuck it
>>1185700
coping is a word describing the act of facing the cruel reality that you're facing. I dont see how this definition might not apply to this situation

>>1185707
>coping is a word describing the act of facing the cruel reality that you're facing.

No... no it really does not. It does not describe facing bad situations at all. You can cope with a good situation just as well as a bad one. The act of coping just means that you are dealing with something successfully.

Example:
>Tim was able to cope with his enormous success by keeping a level head and not letting his ego get the best of him

See what I mean? Coping is a fucking awesome thing done by badasses. It means no matter what the situation is, you can deal with it incredibly well.

Here is what you really should have said:
>I was not able to cope at all by how BTFO I was by bitcoin and how I let a get rich scheme affect me so much mentally

>>1185707
You don't add "-ing" to the end of cope though.

>>1185548
Coping means not owning any Bitcoins in 2016.

>>1186791
Count me in! I am also coping amazingly well that I didn't buy bitcoin.

>coper masterrace here
>tfw I actually feel a little pity for bitcoiners who can't cope

>>1186791
that doesn't make any sense tho
>>1186802
this right now metals have much more potential short-mid term

looking at the bitcoin i can see how it looks like it could bounce. i don't think so i think people will try to pump it and it will fall back to $200 and keep slowly fading.

But if no one accepts bitcoin outside of the internet then it is worthless regardless of it being considered "worth" 400 dollars.

>>1186951
honestly even if it never gets accepted as the new world currency or something this cryptocurrency game has become the gambling of the 21st century, it won't leave us and it will always be there for people wanting to play the market.

>>1186951
>if no one accepts it then it isn't worth anything

the same could be said of all currencies

>>1185096
Whomever made this chart is a fucking retard.

>>1186966
there's pretty much no way crypto is not the future of money. even if it's not Bitcoin, it will be something else.

it just solves too many of the problems that are plaguing our current monetary system.

>>1186973

I agree, the Jew has been given a great obstacle to evade, what will it do next I wonder.

if bitcoin is great why are here so many people trying to convince others that it is great? if more people jump into it doesn't it lose value?

>>1186973
i don't see how it solves anything really.
i also like cash not having memory.
bitcoin has infinite memory but nobody can tell where a piece of gold came from for sure or whose hands it went through.

>>1186973
>it just solves too many of the problems that are plaguing our current monetary system.
For every problem it supposedly solves it creates 10 more.

>>1185096
>Walk into work on Wall St.
>"Sup, Frank? Ready to make some money today?"
>"Sure am, anon! We were all completely dumbfounded when you made the company $6 gorillian yesterday trading Bitcoin!"
>*sips cup from water cooler*
>"Tch, it was too easy, kid. One day you'll be a god-tier investor like me."
>Finally sit down at desk where my boss is ready to suck my dick.
>"Anon, they want you to take my job as President/Founder/Owner/CEO of the company! I'm glad you went against us and bought so many Bitcoins! We could all learn something from your boldness."
>"Nothin' personnel, kid. Now suck my dick."
Things that will never happen. You cryptofags are pathetic. Also, don't worry. In 10 years the government will have dipped their hands in this market somehow and fucked up entirely. Good luck though, friends.

>>1187020
>if more people jump into it doesn't it lose value?
no, it gains value

>>1187032
it solves poor central bank monetary policy. it solves capital controls, negative interest rates. it provides freedom in a society that is trying to ban cash
>inb4 "those things are stupid and don't need to be fixed"
well then we simply have a different core philosophy

>>1187047
>it solves poor central bank monetary policy.
nah, unless you got your paycheck and buy your house in bitcoin and not just your coke and weed.
> it solves capital controls, negative interest rates.
nah, it doesn't solve that it eliminates interest and inherently deflationary which is basically the same shit.
>it provides freedom in a society that is trying to ban cash
nah, it doesn't provide any freedom if they ever want to ban it they will. in the current form it would be easy to stomp it out.

what i think should be fixed is banking laws. especially the ones involving the plastics.

>>1187047
>no, it gains value
that explains it. thanks
know any good reading to get a glimpse of why though? I'm too new to economics unfortunately but i'm eager to change that

>>1187056
bitcoin has no value.
it's an unregulated free floating currency that is highly speculative and very risky. it's also a zero sum game so when you win big someone is probably lost a big chunk of his savings. not that the money he lost has value... but whatever.

what bitcoin is not currently: a convenient way to pay for goods and services.

>>1187062
it has a lot of potential value though, right? that's the main thing and no one knows for sure how much of that potential is gonna blow.
it's all just a big gambling

>>1187076
not it doesn't even have potential value.
it's just a proposed medium of exchange.

that will never be so widely adopted because inherently flawed and inherently a scam. first off there is the typical early adopter scheme your basic pyramid, then the deflationary nature of it (being designed finite) will ultimately ruin the entire thing but by then the early adopters will be long gone.

why do you think all the crypto coins showed up and continue to show up by hundreds?

smart people realize that these are all schemes and only the people starting them have the ability to make a real killing if it gets picked up. so they try to push their own shitty clones but they will never come close to the bitcoin bubble of course.

>>1187056
bitcoin is a network in addition to a currency. when more people use a network, it is more useful. see: Internet, Facebook, etc.

>>1187062
>what Bitcoin is not currently: a convenient way to pay for goods and services
I can sit down on my computer and send any amount of money anywhere, securely, within minutes, with a few cents in fees, without asking anyone for permission. that isn't convenient?

the main inconveniences with Bitcoin arise from the old financial system trying to hamstring it (ie make it difficult to buy) because it obviates their need to exist

>>1187105

>it's just a proposed medium of exchange.

in addition to being a store of value and a payment protocol.
crypto is a revolutionary tech and you're in denial if you cant see that. whether it's Bitcoin or some other crypto that wins out in the end is debatable, but the innovation of cryptocurrency is not

>>1187116
I can sit down on my computer and send any amount of money anywhere
try send to me, just one satoshi i'm not asking for money just send some as proof... oh wait you can't. i don't have a wallet.
you could of course send some real currency via paypal.
>>1187119
>crypto is a revolutionary tech
it's interesting concept i'm not in denial about that
it's not really revolutionary that's my problem. it doesn't solve a single one of my problems involving currency and how i spend it.

>>1186968
But you can buy things with treasury notes, which is the point of currency

nice memes
>>1185096
in the real world people need to pay taxes so bitcoin's ceiling is limited to the black market
>>1185097
>he said I shouldn't put everything on black but I did and I won, so I'm going to keep putting everything on black
>>1185096
>vemma sodas are the next big thing, I swear
>>1185111
>>1185369
if I could predict tops and bottoms I'd make a lot of money from the stock market as well, compare how well bitcoin has done post-bubble with various stocks, you have to address survivor bias and confirmation bias before you make assumptions like this
>>1185231
>>1185547
>lol you are asking for evidence to prove my assertion, that means you can't cope, u mad u mad
>>1185231
>le sports car
classic shilling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2ywZ1AdDrY
>>1185270
if the fundamentals were important you would be hammering them down instead of spouting memes

>>1187116
bitcoin is a network in addition to a currency. when more people use a network, it is more useful. see: Internet, Facebook, etc.

Thats the thing. More people are not using bitcoin because it sucks as a currency. More people might never ever ever ever use it. Did I mention never? Never ever. In fact, the possibility of bitcoin becoming mainstream after years of stagnation and declining transaction volume is dismal at best. Compare this technology to the ones that are actually really used like the ones you mentioned (facebook, internet), and you will see those had steady growth and userbase from people who actually saw it as being useful. Bitcoin had a period of massive growth and bubbled then the bubble popped. People were only buying it out of speculation, nothing more nothing less.

>>1187123
>it doesn't solve a single one of my problems involving currency and how i spend it.
Only thing it solves/makes easier is the obfuscation of illegal funding sources.

>>1187349
you can't obfuscate shit with bitcoin it's all out in the open. every tiny bit can be traced back to it's origins by anyone.

>>1187299
>More people are not using bitcoin because it sucks as a currency.
This.

Bitcoin is a very interesting thought experiment, and a semi-successful foray into cryptology as a solution to fiat currency.

However, it's not going to be widely adopted in the market until people can feel reasonably safe using it and keeping it. Right now, there is no such thing as an FDIC for BTC; if you lose your account information, or your online wallet is hacked, you're totally fucked, no lube, no recourse for retrieving your information. Once the funds are transferred, or the drive you host your offline wallet on is wiped, you're donezo.

This is what is holding BTC back as a platform for exchange currently; the banks aren't afraid of BTC, they're actively investing in comparable crypto technology that would enable the secure exchange and processing of funds industry-wide, as that would help increase the velocity of money, and banks are all for removing barriers for consumers to spend their dollars, because higher Vm = higher equity values in the market overall, and nobody wins bigger in that situation than banks.

However, right now you can't invest in anything but fiat currency or bartered goods with BTC, as BTC is inherently limited in its market penetration as a currency. Since it's impossible to track effectively, and essentially adverse to market regulation, no government or regulatory agency in their right mind is going to invest in it heavily, as there's no basis for it from a risk standpoint. Banks are VERY good at two things; understanding inherent value, and limiting risk. While cryptocurrency as a concept has inherent value, the specific cryptocurrency of BTC has essentially unlimited risk from both a market value and fraud/theft standpoint, and as such, most insuring and regulatory agencies are really holding back its growth as a platform; that won't get solved until we can solve the attribution problem for cryptocurrency.

>>1187368
The transaction register can certainly be traced, but there's no way to attach that transaction to a real-world entity, legal or otherwise, unless you happen to know everyone's public key; there's no requirement to register that information, so from an outsider perspective, that data is essentially untraceable, as it's unattributable without knowing who owns the wallet the transaction is traced through.

I understand that's a major point of the currency, but it's also what's holding it back from wider distribution/adoption.

>>1187382
the bitcoin blockchain alone can't provide that info, however there is a place where it all connects: the exchange sites. there your legal identity is revealed and from that it can be traced through any number of wallets.

anti money laundering softwares can easily map the bitcoin wallets tho. one of my colleagues used to work on algorithms like that for a bank he has crazy stories.

>>1187390
Sure, but none of the exchanges are FDIC insured, and as such, no bank or major financial agency is going to trade with them in any meaningful volume.

For BTC to become a valid currency in the broader market, existing firms are going to have to essentially either a) flout the government and say "fuck it, we believe in this random cryptocurrency more than the insured fiat currency of a large nation-state", or b) we're going to have to make it so that every single BTC wallet traded on a given exchange is attributable to a person or legal entity in order to legitimize processing within the current currency market.

The above are the only realistic ways to increase market penetration at this point, and I think it's pretty clear option a is less likely than option b; in addition, there would remain some serious questions about how the introduction of attributable wallets would impact the pricing of BTC in the short term; long term, it is a great concept, if it can survive the short-term struggle of transitioning between attributable and non-attributable wallet sources that would likely drive either extreme deflation (essentially driving out all but the early-adopters), or extreme inflation (which would drive out existing stakeholders, and occur much more quickly).

>>1187258
>in the real world people need to pay taxes so gold's ceiling is limited to the black market

>>1187052
Or a tesla model 3

>>1187390
Next level cope.
Anyone with a brain can have millions on Bitcoin and the gov will die without ever being aware.
Wait for Confidential Transaction+CoinJoin+BIP47
You are a deprecated grandpa, it's over.

>>1187123
>try send to me, just one satoshi
This has to be the most retarded argument I've heard in my life.

>Try send me an email
>heheheh I don't have mail account
>Try send me a whatsapp
>hehehehe I use telegram


>it's not really revolutionary that's my problem. it doesn't solve a single one of my problems involving currency and how i spend it.
Lower fees, faster transactions, international.
Spending? better concept than fiat, sub-divisible... the list goes on and on.

Why the fuck do you think in UK now you can send money with BTC underlying with Barclays? do you think a bank is gonna use fucking BTC if they weren't forced to adopt it, simply because it is fucking superior at every fucking step.

>>1187299
HAHAHAHA
>declining transactions
https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

>>1185463
>>1185448
i love bitcoin but saying it has no chance of turning into nothing is wrong. it could be killed in a few different ways.

>>1187047
i like bitcoin but every single transaction and account is public

>>1187299
>(facebook, internet)
no want wanted personal computers, smartphones? it is a joke right? call me home you freak, social media was stupid, and the list goes on and on, keep in denial, idgaf,.

The fact that you use easily verifiable fake arguments speaks by itself

>>1187763
There are alternatives..

>>1187374
So what?
The system itself is brilliant, Go ahead create a bitcoin bank for rich people, keep it safe and manage it for them, what is the big deal? there is still much more margin at every point, than the current monetary system, I'm sure that such concept is easily doable, and will draw big pockets attention.

>>1187349
yeah because there's so much evidence that shows buttcoin has been used for terrorism and money laundering

oh wait, there isn't. buttcoin is used by small time drug dealers so they don't have to carry cash on them when they sell in da hood

>>1185096
durable --> bitcoin high hahhahaahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahaahahhahahaahhahahahhahahaahaahahahaahahahaahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahahaahha

>>1187734
>cope
That's still nowhere near what that word means.

>>1187750
I said transaction volume not number of trandactions dumbass. It's the only metric that matters. Get some reading comprehension for shits sake.

>>1187764
Wot. I was saying that those things are useful and bitcoin is not. Fucking hell you guys....

>>1187258
>if I could predict tops and bottoms I'd make a lot of money from the stock market as well, compare how well bitcoin has done post-bubble with various stocks, you have to address survivor bias and confirmation bias before you make assumptions like this

It's like a mix of cognitive dissonance, bitterness and delusion.

Keep up the good cope though

>>1187963
>nocoiners can cope easily
>bitcoiners cant cope at all

I like this meme and I agree with it 100%. Lets spread the "bitcoiners can't cope" message beyond this board. Its really growing on me.

>>1187969
I just find it amusing how aggressively defensive some anti-bitcoiners are here.

To me it looks like some of you are aggrieved and resentful over having "missed out" on the early days. Well, bitcoin continues to shine with or without you because that's how de-localised networks work.

You'll either jump in like so many did in the early days when it becomes "mainstream" or you'll continue to be bitter and shake your fists in envy and spite, dismissing it as "playing the lottery".

>>1187969
I love this meme too. Its so true that bitcoiners dont cope well. If they could cope they wouldnt need to shill here everyday.

>>1187980
Not at all. Like you said we are coping just fine. I'm just agreeing with you.

>>1187980
>bitcoin becoming mainstream
I've heard that joke before. Doesn't it start off something like " two goys walk into a bar..."?

>>1187987
And ends with the barman explaining, "who needs those silly personal-computer-mabobs"

amirite ecs dee

>>1187991
Naw not exactly. It has a pretty funny punchline where... get this... bitcoin never become mainstream! Wahahahaha. Holy shit you should see the expression on the 2 goys faces. I guess you should never invest while intoxocated.

>>1188003
And lucky for the goys they didn't take a barmans advice on finance.

>>1188015
Exactly. Fucking lucky for them since the barman was all for buying buttcoins. Thats what makes the joke so hilarious.

>>1188021
your jokes shit mate, stick to robin hood threads

>>1188024
I have a dark sense of humor, sorry. I just find other peoples misfortune pretty fucking funny. There's no bigger joke than bitcoin.

>>1188027
>my misfortune

Hahaha.

Cope.

>>1188030
Why would I need to cope with your misfortune? Thats silly, willy.

>>1188031
Sweet conjecture bro, and congrats on your successful derailment.

Do you ever get the feeling you're pissing in the wind? At least bitcoin is trying to do something initiative, all you seem to do is stand in the way of progress for spite and self-satisfaction over some deluded prognostication.

Have fun with all your rope when you're struggling to cope, you silly dope.

>>1188040
>At least bitcoin is trying to do something initiative
You mean "take initiative"? Its not possible to "do something initiative". Also, bitcoin is not a person. It is not capable of doing anything of its own accord. Your grammar is so fucking bad lol.

Honestly, I have not responded to bitcoin threads in months. I don't even have the slightest interest in seeing bitcoin fail. I think it will do that fine all on its own. The only reason I even respond now is to call you an idiot for misusing the word "cope". It just irks me because you do it over and over no matter how many people call you a retard. You're like an itch I just can't scratch.

>>1188076
>innovative
Damn auto carrot

And it's fine dude. I like the simplicity of "cope", four simple letters illustrating the denial and disillusion nocoiners have.

No disrespect meant, I have no problem with people not owning or caring about bitcoin, but it irks me to see normies shitpost on something and I don't quite understand why they do it.

>>1188086
> I like the simplicity of "cope", four simple letters illustrating the denial and disillusion nocoiners ha

If the word is so simple then why can't you grasp what it means? It has nothing to do with denial or disillusion you fucking retard lmfao. Even disillusion does not mean what you think it means. It means to remove any sense of illusion (i.e. to see clearly). Use a dictionary or thesaurus sometime for fucks sake.

>>1188096
>delusion

God damnit, it's nearly 6am.

I'm done, peace

>>1185096
Somebody send me bitcoins

1CRALMNHUXeXrcw4VgzCLQcgD8ndJYeFbC

>>1188107
It has nothing to do with delusion either.
We're cool, bro. Just stop using the word "cope". Please. You still don't know what it means. After the hundreth time seeing it on this board you are giving me migraines. Call us nocoiners dumbasses or lame or faggots instead. Anything else. You telling us we are coping is hurting my head trying to figure out how anyone could ever consider it an insult.

>>1188139
Everyone who says "cope" is not 1 person. I haven't posted on here in like 6 months because I gave up on this board.

For some reason 4chan is great for almost everything, I use /o/ to look for cars, /vg/ for vidya, /sci/ for uni work, /lit/ for my reading and /fit/ for the gains among others.

But for some reason /biz/ has fallen to pieces, most of you hump yellens leg like a feral dog and do nothing but express the importance of 'inflation' or why we all really need QE so damn much. It makes me sick desu, at least /pol/ has a fairly large libertarian minority, everyone here is fiscally conservative through the teeth and seems to afraid to break free from jewish shackles.

Anyway, I see parallels with 'cope' being used as 'cuck' is used. No, people aren't using it literally, but it aptly describes the sad state of affairs you nocoiners find yourselves. Because for all the normies out there who only get their news from the BBC or radio talk shows, you actually had the opportunity to discover and explore the explosive field of cryptotech from anonymous and the wider internet.

>>1187734
>Anyone with a brain can have millions on Bitcoin and the gov will die without ever being aware.
you can do that or you can be surprised if you ever start up a wallet to check your bitcoins they will know who you are and how you came by it.

>>1187963
>le cope meme
So you're not going to address any of the points I made. Looks like I win the internet debate. *tips fedora*
>>1187980
>anti-bitcoiners
Just because I am making a point against bitcoin does not mean I have some sort of prejudice against it

I actually consider bitcoin a potential opportunity alongside things like oil companies undervalued by the drop in oil prices, new technology and fast growing brands. I remember posting about bitcoin a while ago where I argued that it is now settling at its natural price after the bubble and would rise again.

I posted this picture ages ago where I argued bitcoin was settling to its natural level again after the bubble burst, let me dig it up from the archives.

>>/biz/thread/592420#p593674

Most here would say that you are obviously a shill/troll and I am wasting my time trying to have a serious discussion with you. Are they right? I don't care about feelings and internet trolls, my goal is to make money and I am trying to ply my reasoning faculties as best I can to this task. If bitcoin can help me accomplish this goal that would be great, but I can't force myself to believe something without evidence and I have to take into account risk so even if there is some evidence that there is an opportunity it might not be conclusive enough for me to put money on.

If I am an idiot, please disprove me. If not then continue to avoid making any rational arguments to help prove you are just a shill.

>>1187963
>le cope meme
So you're not going to address any of the points I made. Looks like I win the internet debate. *tips fedora*
>>1187980
>anti-bitcoiners
Just because I am making a point against bitcoin does not mean I have some sort of prejudice against it

I actually consider bitcoin a potential opportunity alongside things like oil companies undervalued by the drop in oil prices, new technology and fast growing brands. I remember posting about bitcoin a while ago where I argued that it is now settling at its natural price after the bubble and would rise again.

I posted this picture ages ago, let me dig it up from the archives.

>>/biz/thread/592420#p593674

Most here would say that you are obviously a shill/troll and I am wasting my time trying to have a serious discussion with you. Are they right? I don't care about feelings and internet trolls, my goal is to make money and I am trying to ply my reasoning faculties as best I can to this task. If bitcoin can help me accomplish this goal that would be great, but I can't force myself to believe something without evidence and I have to take into account risk so even if there is some evidence that there is an opportunity it might not be conclusive enough for me to put money on.

If I am an idiot, please disprove me and show me the right way. If not then continue to avoid making any rational arguments to help prove you are just a shill.

>>1187939
The volume is still higher, what the fuck are you trying to say, number of transactions and volume is growing at a very healthy rate.

https://segnet.smartbit.com.au/block/00000000071c5eb403407dd7352ad5206873a6c05b3b5fbd0303aaf7f03e2ee9

> Size 2 MB

Bitcoin can scale, it's happening. Nocoiners on severe suicide watch.

>>1187939
>That's still nowhere near what that word means.
cope

>>1187904
cope

>>1188243
There are millions worth of Mt Gox coins that they can't find, imagine if it was an individual running shit under tor, using condidential transactions, coinjoining the transactions... you are fucking clueless.

>>1188491
What about quantum computers? Can't they just count all the numbers at once or some shit?

>>1188503
Yes, can't wait till the iQuantum pro, is it releasing in 2030? man let's wait outside the building already.

>>1188614
Well 2030 is a bit sooner than sometime after the sun has run out of gas.

>>1188632
It was a random number, not worried about it anyway.

>>1188220
>aptly describes the sad state of affairs you nocoiners find yourselves
No. Actually it does not. I means the exact opposite of what you think it means. Cope just means to deal with challenges effectively.

Example:
>Bob received a massive raise and is coping with what to do with all the extra money he has

Cope does not describe a sad state of affairs at all. Not even in the slightest. It is the act of keeping a cool head no matter what the circumstance is. Even if you were using it to describe coping with a bad situation (i.e. coping with stress), cope just means you are able to manage fine and not let stress bother you. It would make a ton of more sense if you said "nocoiners can't cope that they didn't buy bitcoin on 2010". The way you are using it is full blown retarded.

>>1188307
Nope. Transaction volume has been declining for a while.

>>1188490
Retard. Learn engrish.

>>1188220
>Everyone who says "cope" is not 1 person.
So you mean there are 2 or 3 retards on this board? Luckily it seems like it is just confined to /biz/.

>>1188686
The more you call people retards the more you look like you're struggling to cope.

I hope you cope

>>1188680
ITT: Deprecated nocoiners coping hard by deluding themselves into thinking Bitcoin will not go to the moon so they can sleep at night with their BTC wallets.

Sucks to be me.
Buy 10000 BTC for $100 in early 2010
Sell 10000 BTC for $1000000 in 2013
mfw. what a fucking loser i am ;-(

Sucks to own BTC

You be illin fool

ITT: Deprecated nocoiners coping hard by deluding themselves into thinking Bitcoin "is done" and "it's a failed experiment" so they can sleep at night with their 0 BTC wallets.

>>1188700
>The more you call people retards the more you look like you're struggling to cope.
That's some pretty solid deductive reasoning lol

>>1188731
... you mean "not coping", right?

>>1188700
>call someone a retard for being a retard
>"you're just struggling to cope!"

>>1188740
cope like the pope

>>1188759
Bitcointards confirmed for trolls. I knew none of you guys actually bought this shit.

>>1188759
That's still not what cope means you mouth breather.

>>1188771
little to none... so many overheads, like your shirt supply, your equipment, labor, site fees.

You gotta know your target audience quite well. If people are willing to buy them at a high price. Then you would likely see profits after that

also risks. Trends fluctuate.. what sells today, may not be so hot tomorrow..

One advantage is it doesnt require too much capital. so even if it fails, you wont lose much.. So its at least worth trying IMO

>>1188284
I've been involved and owned bitcoin since '11.

If you want my advice, prepare big for the next 3 months, as soon as the halving hype hits its going to be huge. It was after the last halving that the 2013 bubble started its run, and with the way charts are painting the now it could even compete on scale to that.

If you're in it just for dollar profit, put your fiat on a margin exchange and go long/short, take profit/losses in dollars.

>>1188680
I'm not going to argue with what cope means on a bitcoin thread.

>Nope. Transaction volume has been declining for a while.
Do you want a side of fries with that supposition?

>>1188833
>>1188284

If you know how to read a chart, you're probably ejaculating over the screen.

BB:20
RSI:14

>>1188842
That's because there is no argument. Cope means what it means. Use a fucking dictionary retard.

>pic related
Transaction volume is down from 2014. This isn't even an argument. It's not up for debate.

>>1188854
>estimated

You do realise that your chart and this one doesn't include many chinese exchanges, which currently account for over half of the volume?
e.g. both these
>>1188842
>>1188850
are not listed

>>1188857
>citation needed

>>1188857
ooo, it looks even nicer in log.

>the sky is falling!

>>1188857
Just looked at the estimated total transaction volume chart (not just USD). It shows the same shit. Not only is transaction volume stagnant but average volume is down from the peak of the hype in 2013/14.

>>1188863
Kek. Even the log chart shows a decline from 2014-2016.

>>1188861
Because all the "transactions" are purely blockchain transactions.

e.g. off chain transactions such as exchange trades or in-market transfers do not show up on the blockchain.

>>1188866
>decline
the median, average and mode of 2016 is the highest of any year so far.

Are you dense or have you just never studied charting?

>>1188868
>e.g. off chain transactions such as exchange trades or in-market transfers do not show up on the blockchain.
100% wrong. Transaction volume is transaction volume. There is no such thing as trades off the blockchain. The blockchain shows every single transaction.

>the median, average and mode of 2016 is the highest of any year so far.
Nope. There has been a marginal increase the last couple months but it pales in comparison to the transaction volume of 2013/14 when the hype was peaked. All I see is stagnantion over a couple of years.

>>1188883
When you market sell/buy on any exchange, it doesn't show up on the blockchain. You have absolutely no idea how bitcoin exchanges work.

>>1188883
>All I see is stagnantion over a couple of years
that's great

>>1188889
Even if that was true, the trade volume for all the major exchanges shows an even worse decline. Your argument is shit.

>>1188901
>exchange traded volume
>doesn't include most exchanges

You're hitting my point on the head.

Look at these charts, both chinese exchanges
>>1188850
>>1188842
They are not included.

Infact I think the only ones that are accounted is shitty small exchanges like bitstamp, let me look it up.

>>1188907
Wtf are you talking about? What part of ALL THE MAJOR EXCHANGES do you not understand?

>>1188912
Finally I found it

https://markets.blockchain.info/
Do you see this expansive field of exchanges that blockchain pulls its exchange transactions from?

Do you notice how all these account for a fraction of all the exchanges. Infact, OKcoin, Huobi and BTCChina all have volume greater than that entire pool. EACH.

>>1188907
Besides I wouldn't trust anything coming from chinese exchanges anyway. If their stock market is rampant with fraud and market manipulation, imagine their bitcoin exchanges. It's not like they havent been caught fudging numbers in the past.

>http://www.coindesk.com/reality-chinese-trading-volumes/

>Lee said OKCoin got caught “red handed” fabricating trades a few weeks ago and has since lost a lot of consumer faith and trust. He went on to say that Huobi has now been caught doing the same and the evidence has been posted on Weibo.

>>1188932
They probably omitted the chinese exchanges because they are full of shit and blockchain.info can't verify any data that comes from them. It makes complete sense to treat all of their "trade volume" statistics as complete trash.

>>1188936
Agreed. It's not 100% accurate.

But blockchain.info dismisses everything other than 5 small western exchanges (other than bfx) and displays it like it's an accurate representation of the entire bitcoin market ecosystem.

It's not.

Even if Huobi/OKc was 80% fake trades it would still more than double the blockchain.info stats

And it's these new/chinese exchanges that bitcoin has seen all it's growth.

I'm just saying bitcoin exchange transactions happen on a shitload more than 5 exchanges. Bitstamp has been absolutely rekt since last year because it got hacked.

I know dozens of big traders/whales and they mostly use futures contracts on OKc, that's a whole other market in and of itself, again not included by blockchain.info

>>1188945
>Even if Huobi/OKc was 80% fake trades it would still more than double the blockchain.info stats
>80% fake trades
Hahahhaha holy fuck. Even if it was only 1% fake trades it would bring into question the authenticity of any amount of information coming from them.

>b-but muh chinese trade volume is increasing
Lmfao. You haven't even proved that EVEN WITH the shady exchanges and market manipulation. You showed one recent spike that may or may not be fabricated since they have been caught doing it before. Give it a fucking rest.

>>1188956
http://allcoinsnews.com/2016/02/02/bitcoin-marketshare-analysis-february-2015/
Feb 2016 account for market share of exchanges.

>80%
Yeah, I completely over exaggerated it to prove a point.

China is going balls deep into this and the west is sitting on its hands.

They already account for like 70% of the miners..

>>1188963

>>1188963
>the chinese completely dominate the market now
Jusr another reason why the US is bailing on a large scale. The chinese are known to fuck up every market they get their hands on. Look at the Shanghai Stock Exchange for fuck sakes. It's a hotbed of insider trading, market manipulation and pump n dumps. It has gotten so bad that the Chinese government and the Central Bank of China are trying to overhaul financial policy in China on a massive scale.

>>1188965
>bitcoin confirmed for complete shit now

>>1185096

>>1188975
Chinese people looking at bitcoin as an escape are only diminishing the supply.

Also, even if you don't include any of the chinese exchanges, like at all. blockchain.info still needs to account for the recent new exchanges that have grown and stolen most of bitstamp/btce/bfx's volume, e.g. bit-x, lakebtc, gatecoin, gemini, kraken, quadrigacx. Or the gigantic rise in futures contracts or investment trusts like GBTC.

>>1188992
No, I thank you for that pie chart. I haven't seen it before and its fairly telling. Honestly, I think blockchain.info has not updated their data because they have totally bailed on bitcoin. It looks like the majority of the market is dominated by the chinese now which means you won't ever get any accurate data since all their exchanges are completely corrupt. The world has pretty much let China have bitcoin at this point since most of the mining is done there anyways. It's only a matter of time before they run it into the ground like they do everything else.

>>1189001
Well, I'm going to look forward to riding the Chinese bubble, so I can successfully buy my country using the new world reserve currency.

>>1189014
Sorry bub. The bubble burst in 2014. What you see now a couple years later is just the aftermath.

>new world reserve currency
Hahahhaha. Nice one.