/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11839896
Where do you draw the line between altcoins and accual decent ones?

Like, is EOS altcoin? How bout ETH? What about XRP? MakerDao? ChainLink?

How do you define an altcoin.

Great post but I'm still loading up on Decred.

>>11839924
Did you even read his post? He said anything that isn't btc, eth or xmr... Though I do think you could put link in with those 3, especially if they are able to accomplish what they set out to.

>>11839924
all coins that aren't bitcoin are altcoins
XMR and ETH have viable use cases but are still altcoins and will suffer worse than BTC in a crash
every altcoin that isn't XMR or ETH will suffer EVEN MORE. Even if these other altcoins have utility (which they don't), no one is using them, so the utility is pointless

>>11839943
What uses have XMR? Darkweb? Arent they useing Zcash?

>>11839896
>I watched people buy and hold alts after 2014 and the great majority of them never recovered.
What are you on about OP? Anyone who bought into XVG and ETH in the fall of 2014, with only $1,000 in each and sold at the top of the bubble, is a multi-millionaire right now. They recovered at one point, and yes, the whole market is in shambles right now but you said "never" recovered.

>>11839954
Zcash is shit since the anonymity of transactions is optional not forced, defeating the purpose of the coin. XMR is the only true and used privacy coin. Still wouldn't buy unless you are just averaging down and are ready to lose 50% or more of whatever you put in. I'm pretty sure dark web still uses monero over zcash but I'm not too familiar with what they do or don't use. CMC makes it seem like XMR is still the coin of choice though,

>>11839969
Sure go find the next ETH or up and coming PnD, you are looking for a needle in the haystack and most of the people who do this will get burned so fucking bad. The fucking retards here think shit like chainlink, ARK, XML, EOS are going to be something in the future. Christ almighty save your soul if you think you're actually smart enough to know what the next big thing is.

Only coins up there that are still in the game are Bitcoin and Litecoin.. yet fags on this board still shit on litecoin at every given opportunity.

>>11840010
You've lost all credibility after this post.

>>11840010
Holochain is the future of all that we know

>>11840096
this is what being married to a coin looks like, crypto still hasn't capitulated

>>11840086
how exactly am I a pajeet for telling you NOT to buy a shitcoin? Do you not remember what pajeets do since they haven't been around here since march?

>>11840136
Not all the coins you mentioned are winners, but are a handful are. You're a pajeet for imposing your own feelings on (certain) tokens with good fundamentals

>>11840108

Of course it hasn’t capitulated, people who bought before August 2017 are still up tremendously

>>11840010
Ravencoin might be it imo.

It has to be mineable thats for sure.. that excludes a lot.

>>11839896

yup.
first purchased BTC at 350$
Eth at 27$

everything is STILL expensive for me. My personal capitulation isn't for a long time. This can go way lower.

I watched alts go from nothing to stupid prices. Alt still don't seem cheap to me. There is no reason at all they cant go -99% which is when i will start buying alts

>>11840185
This, or DAG is the next big thing.

>>11840010
You and I both know chainlink is a whole other ballpark..

>>11839896
I somewhat agree with you but also think if you can afford $100 worth of some alts that you THINK have a shot, take the gamble. $100 in Ripple in 2015 proved profitable for the long term holders. They all will not be winners, but if you have $1,000 to spare pick up 10 coins. Even if you're wrong and lose 100% ($900) on the 9, if you catch a 10,000% on one you're in good shape. All about odds.

>>11840155
Literally none of those shitcoins will ever be winners you fucking brainlet

LINK is the only thing worth holding. BTC will go to zero with the rest of the shitcoins and I will dance on its grave.

>>11840252
t. first heard about crypto in mid-2017

>>11840062
Just sold 100k

>>11840155
>>11840185
>>11840193
>>11840220
>>11840234

this is literally the shit I was talking about in my original post
STOP

see
>>11840248
>>11840108

>>11839939
>especially if they are able to accomplish what they set out to.
If any of the shitcoins accomplish what they set out to, they wouldn’t be shitcoins. Including your sergey big mac meme token.

>>11839896
Hold long term is retarded. If/when next bull run happens, buy alt but be ready to sell

>in 2018, im forgotten

>>11839954
>Zcash
hahahaha. Most use bitcoin but the rest use Monero afaik. Zcash isn't private
>>11839943
can anyone tell me Eth's use case, other than theoretically? Cryptokitties and 30min transactions doesnt seem useful

>>11839896
>t. BTCuck

>>11839896
you're right
but the 2014 people buying eth were right too

>>11840307
Most alts never come back. Most of the shit at the top of cmc right now is new.

>>11839896
ETH will die, XMR is the real bitcoin.

>>11840400
This. If you want to 10-50x you hold the established ones of today - BTC abd ETH. If you want to 10000x you gotta do some work

>>11839939
>my investment isn't an altcoin because of what it plans to do

>>11839896

Every so often we will add a coin to the top that will never die just like BTC

That coin is XMR

you know what to do boyos

>>11840407
I really like XMR and I hope you're right.

>>11839896
shitty FUD pajeet, fuck off

$1000 EOY confirmed

>>11839896
If years ago you did the opposite of what OP is saying and bought key altcoins (Ripple, Antshares, etc.) you would have ended with almost x1000 gains instead of x10. Also, the situation now is different: there are huge corporations behind some altcoins that care not about price and keep pushing updates in the repo (not like bitcoin in any of its forks).

>>11839896
I don't think anyone is buying anything right now. What are you on about?

>>11839896
also you have to consider that the 2014 altcoins did not have the same warchest some of the bigger alts of today have. they cashed in during the 2017 bubble.
not talking scam icos

>>11840062
Currently hold 67 Ltd. I believe.

>>11840466
I dunno man in this thread alone there's at least 5 retards buying ETH and LINK

>>11840469
many large projects have the runway to continue this next year or two or three. It's a good sign if they are still able to hire developers / keep working.

Yea I mean now you got big corps and banks trying to come into this market look at XLM/XRP. XLM is backed up IBM, i don’t got a crystal ball and can’t see their foreseeable future, but they got a better name then shitcoins back in ‘14. Just for one example.

>>11840493
XLM isn't backed by IBM you stupid fucking mouth breathing incel MOTHER FUCKER LISTEN TO SOMEONE FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE
IBM doesn't give a FUCK about XML. NO ONE DOES. All the "partnerships" were marketing ploys. They used the money that YOU gave them to convince a company to say something nice about them. THEY CONNED YOU
HOLY FUCK

Oldfag here. Those projects died cause all they were was bitcoin clone ffs. Yes only the strong survive but heres the fun part. The game is not over. New winners will emerge and orhers will die....thats the free market.


Did i mention quant is gonna be huge in the next bullrun?

>>11840513
let me guess the whitepaper sounded great huh?
you are a retarded motherfucker

Anyone comparing Link to other shitcoins is a massive retard.
DYOR for fucks sake.

>>11840501
holy fuck ur retarded hahahahaha

>>11839896
>Which coins do you recognize?
all of them because I used to hang out in the btc-e trollbox with charlie lee and other cryptochads while I bot traded PPC. also you're a tremendous faggot and a fakeoldfag. your advice post offers no real advice at how to distinguish scams from potential.

>>11839896
>Thinks altcoin buying logic from 2014 still applies
>Thinks all altcoins in 2018 are bitcoin forks or ERC-20 tokens

I'll be the one laughing when 2019 is the year of true altcoins and BTC dominance is nuked

>>11840645
Based

>>11840796
literally every bear market the same fucking line is said
"THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT THESE ALTS HAVE POTENTIAL MUH TECHNOLOGY"
>>11840645
>call people fakeoldfag
>larps as a fakeoldfag
kek ok genius which alts should we buy during a bearmarket?

>>11839896
>Compares 2013 to 2018
>Starts emotional rant being so sure, then actually has doubts and asks questions

Sage

Bitcoin is dead. Our only chance is Nano now.

I think you can add icon to that list. Interoperability will be huge.

Whatever you do, don't buy chink coins.
>TRON, NEO, WALTON, ICX, QTUM, VECHAIN
They all had their 5 minutes in the last bullrun.
If you want to buy something, buy token/currency that has flatlined, has active community, focuses more on improving their network rather than marketing, no premine/low premine (<1%), has low inflation (<5%) and is listed on at least one (1) major exchange.

>>11840933
ICX will be huge next bull run, it could even be huge if BTC dies.

>>11840836
>kek ok genius which alts should we buy during a bearmarket?
ETH is the only alt worth buying during this market. but high risk/reward options would be the new coinbase tokens which will likely boom during a bull run.

I know you're a maximalist and will just flame me, but you really need to take stock of the community and current development ecosystem.
>1) the bitcoin community is in shambles. every change drives a new contentious hard fork which weakens the immutability and deflationary perks
>2) money transmitters and banks are now competing with currency based cryptos, why would someone set up a lightning node or sidechain when they can safely use venmo?
>3) XMR is the only currency not directly competing with banks because it's anonymous, they others will soon have no use case
>4) corporate and institutional blockchains will need robust smart contract support, like land registries, auction houses, or systems that rely on non-fungible tokens.
>5) of the smart contract platforms, ETH is the only one not completely in shambles, it's just mostly in shambles
therefore, I'm buying ETH

>>11840976
I thought we were at the bottom but the fact there are people still shilling fucking ICX says we have a long way to go

>>11840896
>>11840898
>>11840902
>>11840976
>>11840933
I tried. You fuckers just need to burn yourself to learn

>>11840994
listen dude I even explicitly said I think ETH has a future, but buying at these prices is fucking suicide unless you're about to freeze your fucking brain and come back in 5 years.

>>11841001
I just bought 10 BTC worth of ICX. I'm gonna make it.

OP is actually a fag.
Where were you when IOTA did the ICO in 2015 for $0.00017 the MIOTA?

You could sell in December 2017 between $4 and $5.

XLM is going to the moooooooooooooooooooon

OP is going to the bathroooooooooooooooooooooooom

POW is dead broski

>>11840836
>literally every bear market the same fucking line is said
>"THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT THESE ALTS HAVE POTENTIAL MUH TECHNOLOGY

I would like to hear Oldfag ***informed*** opinions on LINK. Just dismissing it because of general distrust of altcoins isn't enough.
Tell me how solving the oracle problem, making smart contracts actually useful in the real world, isn't "different" from forks of BTC and shitty memecoins? Any oldfag who has lived through previous BTC crashes AND understands what LINK is trying to achieve? Anyone?

I will be loading up my chainlink bags all the way down and all the way back up to $1 per LINK. Unless some oldfag can sway me otherwise.

Yes, LINK really is different. All other coins are garbage. That includes Nano and ICX and everything else in this thread except maybe ETH and XMR.

>>11841096
You do realize that ICX will implement everything Link is doing right?

>>11841096
why does link need a limited issued token to function

>>11841106
No it won’t
>>11841126
TransferAndCall
Collateral, game theory, payment.

>>11841106
>will implement
>is doing
Do you see it now anon?

>>11841144
yes it will

I'm buying some ETH because in the long term I see it being worth more than what it is now. I'm aware it's risk etc. Why the fuck am I going to wait till ETH hits $200 to start buying again?

>>11840136
Chainlink downies will shit up every thread on this board. Only the death of the project in a couple of years will snap them out of it.

>>11840136
Sir we are here still now sir and has never left.

>>11841144
>TransferAndCall
>Collateral, game theory, payment.
I thought smart contracts make things easier adding an additional unit makes it more convoluted in my opinion

>>11841157
I'm buying some too, but just remember it could go back down to $10-20

>>11841019
buying now is risky, yes, but that's the rub. I wouldn't call the level of risk suicidal, just high. bear exhaustion is setting in, and there's no bad news events to cause things to crash more. I've missed enough bull runs to know I can't time the market perfectly.

>>11841157
ETH will likely go back to $300 EOY regardless of what BTC does.

>>11839896

>>11841073
This. OP is a fag.

>>11839896
I'm buying alts that bottomed and selling them when they go up to accumulate more BTC and ETH. The alts have their uses you see.
Seriously though: I agree with your post. I'm losing my hope for ETH though.

>>11841194
Look I’m asking for Oldfags with INFORMED opinions.
Smart contract platforms such as ETH do not even have naive oracles. You HAVE to add an additional layer.
The available centralised oracles are not secure. If Oraclize was a decent solution then it would be used. News flash, it isn’t used for more than shitty gambling dApps.
A decentralised oracle - chainlink - is secure. And will be used by those who require high levels of security such as financial markets and other high value contracts.

I want to hear from an oldfag that is actually informed on LINK please. Not one that needs basic spoonfeeding and just regurgitates FUD from 2017.
Perhaps all the ones who have done their research have joined the linkmarine team, kek

>>11841154
Mate what about GOOKED do you not understand?

>>11839896
>comparing 1m market cap projects to nearly 1b valuation projects with major companies and angel investors attached to them

I am completely in the same boat as you anon but this isn't the right way to explain this. Most projects in the top 15-20 right now are there for a reason, even something like Tron is backed by Bittorrent and major investors.

Their BTC value will definitely drop, making it essentially stupid to hold them. But a lot of big projects right now have hundreds of devs and communities filled with hundreds of thousands of people.

I think what people fail to realize is that a token economy isn't ruled by one coin. Everything will be backed by BTC, that's for sure, but there will be competing ecosystems that each specialize in a specific field. In possibly 5-7 years, you'll see coins consolidate into one another and hard fork together as the economy chooses the better ones.

This is just what I've learned from working at a cryptocurrency company. My colleagues at work and at blockchain meet-ups have come to similar conclusions about this.

>>11841406
A trusted party used as oracle creates redundant servers, hardcode the IP address in the smart contract, problem solved.
>inb4 not trustless/decentralized
The point of an oracle is that it is a trusted source, by definition centralized amd based on reputation.

>>11841517
Ok mate. I guess that’s why chainlink has no interest and Oraclize has loads.
>oh wait

OP is a faggot

>>11841527
A lot of BS has interest during hype cycles. Then most of these things die off when we find out there's no market.

Op should go wash his tractor

>>11839896

Elsewhere, in a story headlined “Bitcoin’s repeated splits undermine its long-term value“, Financial Times journalist Jemima Kelly, a long time critic of cryptocurrencies, wrote: “Under the laws of supply and demand: something that can be infinitely replicated must lack long-term value. Anyone trying to market such a thing — however many new bells and whistles they put on it — is essentially trying to sell hot air.”

Also let's be clear. OP tried to help you and you all attack him, coming from anl very emotional place..
Looking at it rationally, people gave startups with no working product, no proven market, not even a working demo and often not even a good track record Millions upon Millions. Normal startups fail at a 90% rate, that is AFTER they have an mvp, test market, cash flow going and professional investors vetting them. These ICOs will fail at a >99% rate. To think YOU know the one in thousand that will grow out to be the one is bollocks, statistically. Most of you don't even know how blockchain fucking works.
OP is 100% right. The first altcoin boom is on repeat. It's quite obvious.

>>11841024
The only thing ICX has going for it is the circulating supply is probably pretty low since all the bag holders necked themselves after losing 99% to this literal scam. This is assuming they kept the useless tokens in their wallet and didn't sell them for pennies before they an heroed. That said, you're still probably going to get rekt and necked just like them.

>>11839896
What if bitcoin slowly loses its first mover advantage and bleeds to death while some alts trive? Are you going to kys then?

>>11841406
link is a scam lol
you keep repeating newfag rhetoric saying your little scam that doesn't even have a mainnet is secure and a better solution and all this bullshit

>>11840010
The next big thing is COLX, you dumb faggots

>>11841106
>gook detected
You fags have been saying dumb shit like this for a year and still they have produced NOTHING other than an army of bagholders that will dump the second this piece of shit pumps even the slightest amount. ICX is literally moon-proof. It's done. You're better off buying DBC or VET.

>>11841670
It becomes exponentially less likely the longer time goes on.

>>11841639
U fyckin morons, all I need is 0,1-0,3$ on nimiq as on next bullrun I will hold aprox 1,8-2mln of those goldish bastards.
I will hold tens of thousands of other alt cos I am mining them.
Fuckin morons

NANO

>>11841004

You didn't try shit. You just took a snapshot of 5 years ago, saw what was still alive and told new guys to look at the ones that survived. That is the most braindead level of investing I've ever seen. If you want good returns, there are no shortcuts; DO YOUR RESEARCH.

>>11839896
OP is right. Some alts wont recover. Some might do well but many will not ever really recover.

OP, you're sentiment is heading towards the right direction, but you miss the mark. ETH isn't going to recover that well, it created its own death with the ICO craze since now it will be facing a constant wave of sell pressure from actual shitcoins (yes, ETH itself is not a shitcoin, but its death will be due to the shitcoins on its network). It might recover and do well eventually, but it will be severely lagging behind the cryptos that survive. People need to focus on cryptos that are unique from BTC and have actual established connections/developments outside of the intrinsic crypto-sphere. The only cryptos worth holding at this point would be BTC (but only if you're rebuying at this price after selling higher), XRP, XLM, and IOTA. NANO might be okay as well since it's also a huge normie favorite and is different enough from BTC in the way it operates as a currency.

>>11840407
>ETH will die
lmao

>>11842279
it probably will die
cryptocats crippled the network and the solution was to centralize gas limits to miners

>>11839896
You are correct. BTC LINK XMR ETH in that order.

>>11842236
You assume the startups will fail. 1/10 - 1/25 will succeed exceptionally.
That is all it will take to start the next race for sovereignty. Traditional class mobility avenues have closed even further with the rise of interest rates.

Can't tell who is a no coiner troll, desperate exit scam seller or straight shill. However, is clear by the market graph that almost literally no one is putting new green paper. This advice could have been good back in February but not now.

>>11840350
This is XSN now and is doing some very cool things.

>>11840350
XSN is killing it from a development perspective, though

>>11841096
LINK isnt an "alt" coin. alt coins are so-called b/c theyre an alternative to btc.
LINK is unique, it is its own paradigm.

>>11842342
Because the network was essentially in its early beta. Scaling solutions are almost specced ready that will leave no problem left in scaling.

>>11842446
Which means one of the three following things
1. crypto is kill
2. almost all assets in this space are currently overvalued as fuck thus need to correct downwards
3. the majority of the market is retarded and now is the time to buy

Quite frankly it is going to be 2 or 3. There is no reason for motherfucking 75% of the top 50 to have the marketcap they have. No way something as shit as verge is worth 100.000.000 $ What the actual fuck. Coded and managed by incompetent monkeys.

Now with that having been said the majority of the market is indeed retarded and this might very well be a good time to buy.

>>11839924
Ethereum is not an altcoin. Everything else is.

>>11842603
This. LINK is completely independent of BTC, XMR, and is only somewhat connected to ETH. It will mostly be used with Hyperledger and private chains.

>>11842236
Holy shit this couldn’t be more wrong. Blockchains need armor not wings you’re a brainlet.

>>11841106
Are you really retarded? WAN ICON AION alliance , yet wan Chain literally partners with chainlink. Aion is about to be BTFO by polkadot and chainlink. Sorry but the world has moved on past Samsung and LGs

>>11840898
>>11840902

>>11843137
i thought this was huge aswell, i think icx will follow.

>>11839924
>>11839939

>>11842779
COPE. The entire market is a competition of innovation. Accept that or be a BTC maxilimalist (ugh) or a USD maximalist (wtf are you even paying attention?)

>>11840994
keep buying, icos still hold almost 40% of the funds they raised ready to sell when the SEC gets on their asses

I warned ethereum fags months ago

you fell for the bitcoin maximalist bullshit. maybe think about it yourself and you'll realize how dumb investing in 1 asset is

>>11843525
Cope? Bitcoin is the base currency, Ethereum has contracts (you don't need bullshit tokens, Ethereum does everything already), and XMR is the standard for privacy.

Everything else is 100% unnecessary, stupid and has no utility during a bear market. You buy bullshit like chainlink in a bullrun, because it's only real utility is to gain BTC/ETH, whatever you like the most.

>>11842236
Have you heard about Radix?

>>11844611
>bull
You dumbshit, Ethereum contracts can't be used in the real world without Chainlink. Thats also the case for any other platfrom. EOS, ADA, NEO etc...

If your gonna talk shit at least know what your talking about.

I can't believe fucking oldfags and newfags alike rope link in with any other alt coin, or any other crypto infact. If you did any of your own research you would see it's the most important project in the space right now.. and therefore has the greatest potential

>>11845784
the_crypto_oracle is correct. thank you for your service in iraq, Marine.

>>11839896
You are spot on. The meme halvening charts tell the tale. We’ll bottom out in Q2 2019 at $2.5k or so, and then the bull will return in 2020/21. I’m stacking fiat until April and then only buying BTC until the bull erupts. I’ve got my stack of chainlink ready but I don’t see it doing anything special until late next year.

>>11839896
Ah good times, I personally lost about 9 BTC in 2014 fucking around with terrible altcoins.

Omg newfags just stay away like the man says he is totally right. Buy btc between 1.5-3k and consider good alts when the time has come.

>>11840461
>what is a bull market
did you even read ops post you fucking brainlet

>>11840570
kys you brainlet

>>11839896

Good points anon, but a lot of altcoins are actually solving problems which Bitcoin was not capable of solving.