/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11819775
He did warn you faggot. But you didn't listen. You didn't listen. So now you suffer.

>>11820280
Suffer? 2 conman lose their moneyz. Bitcoin super cheap. Best Christmas ever!

Why would he sell on exchange why not otc

>>11820337
follow his twitter.
He wanted to crash BTC.

why the fuck did they think bch abc and sv were good ideas. fucking retards kek. no normies know or care about the difference. also kind of renders the bitcoin is inflation proof meme obsolete as new shitcoins are made out of thin air

>>11820367
Because they are not that bright. Ver and faketoshi are fucking retarded sub 90 IQ street shitters who got lucky. 4 different fucking tickers. Destroyed price. The only good thing is cheap btc. Best November ever!

>>11820367
The only thing Craig cares about is making Bitcoin P2P cash for the entire world. He doesn't give a shit about trading, investing, shitcoins, prices, mooning, poorfags, richfags, bankers or whatever else.

Only use. If Bitcoin fails to become a worldwide currency, Craig fails. This is why he is willing to kill off everything else to reach this goal.

It's not hard to understand what drives him, he literally writes a fucking book on twitter every day about it.

Sanity thread.

>>11820439
Please go shit on another street sir. He is a scam artist he deserves whats coming. This is the beginning of a very painful end. For him.

>>11819775

>>11820439
And how will forking shitcoins help him with this?


>That would be 5 dollars please
>or 1 USD cash
>or 0.01 USD cash ABC
>or 0.01 USD cash SV
>or 0.5 USD gold

>>11820439
It doesn't matter what he cares about. He's fucking incompetent. He won't listen to people that have rubbed the technical facts of on chain scaling in his face for months now and as a result just keeps ignorantly insisting its all magic and everything will work fine. He is like the villager in the boy who cried wolf who heard core lie their asses off on the subject so would not even consider that there was actually some merit to their position at orders of magnitude higher. ABC took this into account and optimized actual propagation. SV idiotically ignored it and just mindlessly raised the block limit and the result is pic related.
Look I've got all the sympathy in the world for the economic position of Craig if not his fucking retarded attempt to push it by technically ignorant means, but the guy is a waste of oxygen that simply cannot admit when he's wrong or actually analyse the territory in which he's operating at from any other perspective than plagiarism of superior thinkers on tune subject and dick waving.
He needs to be fucking purged.

>>11820616

FTFY:

"this will be $5,
or 5000 BTC
or 50000000 BCH
or 5000000000000 BTC SV
or 4000000000 DogeCoin"

>>11820625

They literally just mined a 64mb block you brainlet

>>11820727
Look at the chart fuck face. It took 40 fucking minutes to propagate. Sustained throughput is 10mb, at best. Block sizes are the wrong thing to focus on. Sustained throughout is what matters. Understand block propagation and stop making a cock of yourself. Take every corecuck argument on the subject you've heard and increase the block sizes they are talking about by an order of magnitude then remove graphene and CTOR to compensate and SV is exactly what you fucking get.

>>11820367
>kind of renders the bitcoin is inflation proof meme obsolete as new shitcoins are made out of thin air
I can make my own USD at home doesn’t mean it’s the real thing

>>11819775
Bullish for BTC????
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGAGAGAGGAGAGAGAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

I was never more certain of the flippening than I am now. The lower BTC goes the easier it will be for BCH to overtake it.

What I don't get, is why the fuck either of these 2 shitcoins believe THEY are the right coin.
Let me get this straight, the first ever crypto to get any sort of attention JUST SO HAPPENS to be the "best"?
lol, get fucked retards.
SV is controlled by a delusional faggot in his 40's or some shit that literally acts like a 15 year old troll in Call of Duty.
ABC is controlled by chink miners.
We have Eth, we have 0xBTC, we have Stellar, we have Ripple, we have DASH and plenty more examples of other cryptos that already scale like 1000X better than BTC or BCH.
Whoever wins this war somehow thinks the entire world is going to want to touch their shit with a 10ft pole after this retardation?

> Oh shit, guess I can't pay rent this week cuz Craig was on his period

>>11820913
BCH believes they are the right coin because they have made the technically correct decision at every fork of an extremely hostile environment for the past ten years. They have more scale and decentralisation than any other coin, and each step in the process has acted as an intelligence filter leaving only those who truly understand what the fuck all this is about in terms of ends as well as how to get there in terms of means.
They are the people who have simply been observably correct at every single juncture in crypto. If you wanted to pick a group that have proven themselves elite in trial by fire, they are it. They didn't fall for core's bullshit arguments at extremely low onchain throughput, they didn't fall for central bank subversion in the form of lightning bakkt and liquid, and they also didn't fall for technically ignorant blowhards that just said the technical problems would solve themselves and dedicated all their efforts to bluster and self promotion.
They took the perfect correct path through the decade long storm of chaos, and I am proud to be by their sides.

should be a contract out for their heads

>>11820771
2018. He still thinks bitcoin development is about subsidies, muh energy, muh propagation, muh malleability, muh nodes

Its about competition you brainlet. Connectivity is incentivised we dont need to subsidise propagation because those who do it best make more money. You want less and less effort until there is no security. Red queen game

>>11821111
Jesus fucking christ you brainlet, is your hardware h264 decoding chip "subsidising" your tranny porn habit? Being more efficient is not a fucking "subsidy", being less efficient *ON PURPOSE* is fucking idiocy. Being less efficient on purpose to the extent that you can't even hit 20% of your target on chain throughput and you suffer self re-org attacks due to block propagation issues is a level of stupidity unknown in this space until the advent of pic related.
There is no more simple way to put this; CSW is a complete fucking moron, and Calvin, nChain, and everyone else on the hook for his stupidity is getting sick of his shit, and that is why there is presently mass resignations at the nChain offices. He cannot and will not ever accept that he is FUCKING WRONG. And whether you're shilling for him because you're paid to, or because you really believe his shit, or because you're actually him makes no difference to the facts of this issue which are simple questions of technology.
GET WITH THE MOTHERFUCKING PROGRAM OR GET FUCKING REKT.

>>11821068
Not gonna lie man, I'm feeling some fucking pain right now but this was a nice respite from it. We're all gonna make it. See you in the stars.

>>11821197
Everytime you make something more efficient by changing the protocol you make bitcoin weaker. Increases in efficiency need to come from innovation on top of the protocol
Ctor dsv is like lowering the hurdles to get a new pb

Jihan does not give a fuck about world money he just wanta to get rich of the bubble. Everytime he can cause a hardfork or change the protocol to make life easier for hime he does it

>>11821259
That doesn't make any fucking sense at all, even at a level that assumes you're actually operating at minimal efficiency and not constantly shooting yourself in the foot with a fucking howitzer like SV observably are right now, picking a protocol that is purposely sub-optimal is simply sub-optimal by definition. You want the protocol frozen so building on top of it can safely be done for years to come and yet you want it frozen in a dysfunctional way? You are effectively arguing for the hardcoding of TCPIP variables in the stack to make the base layer more dysfunctional on purpose
The fact that you're arguing for changes that don't even meet that minimal level of effectiveness, and are actively destroying the very chain upon which they are imposed tips the diagnosis from "Well that's pretty stupid" to.
THAT IS FUCKING RETARDED.
YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT.
GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY FUCKING SIGHT.

>>11821317
When you lift a weight to get strong you always increase the weight over time so that you continue to grow
Meanwhile you want to get stronger by decreasing the weight as you go. Good luck with that

We are not trying to optimise the game we are trying to optimise the people playing the game

>>11821379
Technology is not biology, engineering is not hypertrophy. The two are completely opposite, you are in fact encouraging dysgenics amongst the group you claim to be selecting for, because you are selecting for people that don't understand you're burning the very platform you claim to be building on right under their fucking feet. I say again, fuck you, and fuck off. You have no fucking idea what you are doing.

>>11821068
>They have more scale and decentralisation than any other coin,
Complete bullshit, plenty of other crypto have far better scaling, cashies always went on about how they can scale with huge blocks, meanwhile ABC is mining small blocks and SV just raped their own network mining a 64mb block. BCH cannot delivers it's scaling claims, cashies are technically illiterate frauds.

>>11821609
> Complete bullshit, plenty of other crypto have far better scaling
Not decentralised POW ones. https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-eth-dash-bch.html during stress tests BCH has shown the consistently highest ceiling amongst this group
> meanwhile ABC is mining small blocks
Because there's not much TX throughput on the chain, especially with the chain actually locked down by a lot of exchanges right now and TX actually not even possible
> SV just raped their own network mining a 64mb block.
Which is why ABC split away from their idiocy, having correctly identified it as stupidity and predicted exactly that beforehand. SV is not BCH, it is a scamcoin run by opportunists and the technically ignorant, nothing more, nothing less.

>>11821669
>https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-eth-dash-bch.html
While spamming the network BCH managed to average just over 4mb per block and you're comparing it against normal traffic, realistically BCH can't consistently deliver much more than 4mb of TX every 10 mins. DGB and a bunch of other PoW decentralized coins are far ahead.

>>11821791
Wrong, BU stress tests with optimised code for parallelism and propagation have pushed 100mb sustained tx throughput, furthermore, the BCH stress tests did not suffer shit SV is from setting limits it can't handle, they too were sustained. That is exactly what stuff like graphene and CTOR are there for.
DGB has 15 second block times, which means it will have constant high orphan rates and will scale no better than ETH. I can find no record of any stress test ever substantiating the blatant lies you're spewing out regarding it, and am thus forced to conclude you are just another clueless fuck.

Both are employed by central banking institutions who are the obvious perpetrators of this year long pump and dump.
Neither have any coin.
Did you think kike central banking families were going to sit back and watch crypto usurp their source of power of the fucked-up planet?
They have crypto on a fucking string just like every other asset class. Fiat buys control every single time. If you buy this shit, realise that it's purely gambling and (((they))) can pull the rug at any time.

>>11821824
>the BCH stress tests did not suffer shit SV is from setting limits it can't handle,
Cashies just spent almost 2 years screeching they can scale BTC to visa levels using only bigger blocks and block limits were a blockstream scheme. Clearly you're all full of shit.

>>11821891
The central banking coins are XRP and BTC primarily as accurately described in >>11820539.
BCH in particular is cancer to their mission as there's no way they can control it if it honestly becomes world money because pic related

>>11821944
Which they can, the problem isn't the physical requirements of doing so, which are summed up in pic related, they are the inefficient way in which the software operates that massively amplifies those requirements, which if not addressed result in uselessly small throughput, as we saw in the BU testnet mocks that topped out at 22mb, as well as the first BCH stress test which topped out at the same, and both highlighted the core sabotage of tx queueing as the culprit.
It is critical to grasp this point; there is nothing challenging about the physical demands of accomplishing visa levels, it is purely a software engineering problem. Core didn't even try to solve it, instead simply surrendering wholesale to the central banking cartel in outright betrayal. ABC and BU as BCH are tackling that problem while SV just said it didn't exist, and are now suffering the consequences for their idiocy.

>>11822094
If the core software was always capable of operating at a block size of up to 22mb even un-optimised, why were core so utterly fanatical about forcing a permanent 1mb limit? That doesn't make sense.

>>11822167
You assume good faith when none is due. Core are saboteurs, nothing more and nothing less. It really is that simple. Full sordid story in pic related.
BCHers may be getting slammed, but at the end of the day >>11821068 is dead right, they've been exactly correct about everything all along. They are unironically the honest autistic software dev anarchocapitalist set of the ecosystem who just wants sound working global peer to peer digital cash. But just because they want it doesn't mean they'll get it. They're in for a hell of a fight.

>>11819775
Can someone explain this scenario to a brainlet?

BCH was forked and the two variants of it, ABC and SV, are now live? What happened to the "original"? What is this hash war I keep hearing about? I mean, when BCH originally forked from BTC, didn't they just keep operating without any problems? Why should hashing make any difference?

>>11822230
> BCH was forked and the two variants of it, ABC and SV, are now live?
It was upgraded, SV forked away on a new ruleset at the same time as the upgrade took place.
> What happened to the "original"?
Nobody is mining blocks using that ruleset anymore.
> What is this hash war I keep hearing about?
SV believed they could force their ruleset by outhashing the ABC ruleset, but ABC ended up out-hashing them. ABC didn't bother to try to force their ruleset on SV and just let them fork off peacefully.
> I mean, when BCH originally forked from BTC, didn't they just keep operating without any problems? Why should hashing make any difference?
There were plenty of problems. There was one day when 90% of the hashing power totally abandoned the BTC chain because the BCH chain was more profitable, which at the end of the day is what miners actually care about. At any rate, by comparison yes, that split was much less contentious than this one, replay protection was added to the BCH fork which effectively meant it peacefully ceded the previous territory to the BTC chain rather than attempt to contest the ruleset.
This time the ruleset was contested in one direction, with ABC flatly winning that war, but ABC hasn't pushed it in the other direction and has not tried to shut down SV. Given the market activity and technical dysfunction though SV may simply die completely on its own.

>>11822279
Thanks for the quick response. I don't get how there can even be a "war" to win though? Can't people just mine both chains in peace given that they're not linked anymore? I mean, how can there be a war any more than there's a war between ETH and BTC?

>>11822316
Basically Craig wants to get rid of every coin that isn't his, including BTC.

Time will prove that he was right again. I am all in into SV and not worried.

I fthere is a coin that'll have any gains in future its his.

>>11821990
>they don't still hold millions of bch post-fork

Fuck off with your slantkike gookcoin, zhang.

>>11822316
ETH And BTC don't consume resources in a rivalrous fashion. No matter how much hashing power ETH pulls, BTC is unaffected, and no matter how much hashing power BTC pulls, ETH is unaffected, because they use different hashing algorithms.
BTC, BCH, and BSV all do, http://i.4cdn.org/biz/1542652895450.jpg basically, with the exception that the scenario there is not really iterated. Blockchain wars are not just one step and you're done, they're a continuous cat and mouse game between the ruleset maintainers in each case.
Let's say for example that BCH had as highlighted in that image stolen enough hashpower to permanently kill the present BTC fork. Would that really mean that BTC was permanently dead? No, the maintainers would just hard fork to a new POW algorithm, or do something else that restored the ledger. They wouldn't just throw up their hands and say "Oh well, guess we're fucked now and there's nothing we can do".
In the same sense, what if BSV actually had outhashed BCH and tried to force its ruleset? Well ABC had patchset with a POW swap ready to go, so that too wouldn't have accomplished anything.
What miners really are, and this took me a long time to understand, is like the military branch of a nation state. They exist to enforce the laws and declarations of a civilian government. Can there be coups? Sure, but they can fail, too. If your map for the world is just "The military runs everything" you don't really know what's going on, and in much the same way "the miners run everything" is an inadequate description of material reality when it comes to POW blockchains.

>>11822425
That doesn't matter shithead, they have to play by the rules out in the open because >>11821990 whereas in BTC they literally own the ledger through lightning, liquid, and bakkt.

>>11822361
What he wants is irrelevant.

>>11822458
They own as much of BCH as bitmain if not more, piss-skin.

>>11820625
This poster is correct. The only way Craig or Calvin could save face and actually be redeemed as intelligent here is if their intention was to force Bitmain to switch hash from BTC to BCH, causing the Death Spiral to trigger. Bitmain does have ~1,000,000 BCH in holding - thus, they do have a interest in protecting it. If they sold right now, they've lost a shit load.
Interestingly, BTC has crashed amidst all this, so I suspect some do think this is what the game plan might be. Whether or not it'll happen is another question.
>>11820771
Also on point here. Core deliberately crippled Bitcoin imo, but it is not even close to being able to scale at the level that Craig is claiming. I'm not convinced CTOR was the correct approach (bruteforce tx hashes to give a heavy weight bias to one thread), but I've yet to see better suggested.

>>11822468
Once again, that doesn't matter because they have to actually play by the rules out in the open. You're saying between two casinos, one as rigged as it is possible, and one provably mathematically fair, you'll do just as badly on both because some malevolent party holds a significant share in each.
You're just fucking wrong, cuntbrain.

>>11822188
Nailed it.

>>11821068

Based

>>11821379
>t. retard
it‘s really not worth it

>>11821068
Damn son, feel the love. Gentleman, it's been an honor and a privilege serving with you, come what may. OG ancap coiners forever.

>>11822188
Is the guy who received the first bitcoin from Satoshi autistic and anarchocapitalist enough for you?

Are you really so fucking stupid you can't tell the difference between a permanent one megabyte centrally planned scaling cap to force the dominance and continuance of the very much unfree banking systems of the present day vs a free floating supply and demand set limit absent central planning specifically to bring those unfree banking systems to their knees and implement Selgin's free banking alternatives, or are you just hoping we are?
Either way, fuck yourself for trying to twist the words of a great man to advance your bullshit agenda.

>>11822850
Give it up coretard fuck, nobody here is stupid enough to be unaware of where the permanent 1mb limit came from as highlighted in >>11822188 . It was that fuck Maxwell, and it's just a fact. Maxwell's sabotage was directly contrary to Satoshi's design, and it was implemented by politically sabotaging and exiling everyone who opposed his coup. This isn't /r/bitcoin. Your bullshit won't fly here.

No one cares about your fucking btc, or btc trash, or btcabclgbtbbq. It's fucking dead, and your antiquated dinosaur shit is dragging down the market. All exchanges need to give btc pairs the boot and go directly to fiat something else viable

>>11823019
And Satoshi said that unlimited sized blocks was a dead end, fuck off.

>>11819775
very much this

>>11823092
Hello stupid fuck, welcome to reality, pic related.

>>11823115
Which Satoshi later corrected himself.

>>11823161
Wrong. Get over it, the limit was sabotage, end of fucking story, it was an invention and imposition by Greg Maxwell, and he used political maneuvering and Machiavellian sabotage + 70m of banker capital to advance his agenda and force the ruleset on the rest of the ecosystem, and that's all there is to it.

>>11823197
All bcash people have are memes and conspiracies.

>>11823202
all core cultists have is provable bullshit and banker's cocks up their ass. We don't care what you think. Go fuck yourself.

>>11820771
It took 40 minutes because they pulled hash to mine the ABC chain to spike its difficulty

>>11822953
It's not permanent. Big blockers just didn't achieve consensus. When BTC raises block size one day, BCH will be seen for what it is: unsound money that is easily changed. Bitcoin's single most important property is that it is hard to change. That's what decentralization is all about.

>>11823019
What sounds more decentralized to you, having to pay thousands of dollars to run a node in your home because it consumes terabytes of space and requires massive bandwidth or being able to run one on the computer and internet connection you already have?

Satoshi also said that the longest chain is Bitcoin. So BTC is Bitcoin.

>>11823115
It's common knowledge that Moore's Law is failing or has failed already. Satoshi could not have foreseen that in 2009. In any case, it makes sense to at least take current hardware into account. If there is some leap in computing or networking capacity, there will be no debate.

>>11822167
this i never understood this.

they could go 5mb then 10 etc

>>11823248
Wrong, the propagation is what took 40 minutes. As for spiking the difficulty of the ABC chain, this is like saying that applying for a job as a security guard at a bank is reducing security by making it a more competitive environment for security staff. Wake up.
'

>>11823269
> didn't achieve consensus
Because it was irrationally opposed contrary to the original roadmap by saboteurs, and for no other fucking reason, cuntbrain.
> When BTC raises block size one day, BCH will be seen for what it is
If this ever happens, BCH will be seen for what it is indeed; RIGHT ALL ALONG, and core will have lost whatever tiny shred of credibility they had left.
> What sounds more decentralized to you
Well it sure as fuck isn't running on a blockchain with a ruleset handed down by fiat on the political declarations of six saboteur neckbeards. And you don't need to run a node to use the chain. SPV works.
> It's common knowledge that Moore's Law is failing or has failed already. Satoshi could not have foreseen that in 2009. In any case, it makes sense to at least take current hardware into account. If there is some leap in computing or networking capacity, there will be no debate.
Spoken like a true complete technical ignoramous. It never stopped, they just kept adding more cores, but that doesn't matter to BTC coretards because your software is not optimised for multi-core operation, because that would invalidate the entire impetus of the argument it's actually difficult to process the volumes in question. And the purpose is to keep you enslaved to the banks, which you are, and which you deserve to be, because you are the stupidest fucking cunt to ever slither out of the oceans.

>>11823277
Higher difficulty means slower block times and fewer rewards hence more costly to mine for Roger and Jihan, CSW is bleeding them

>>11823348
No, it doesn't. Difficulty adjustment algorithm is specifically designed to keep the block time at ten minutes. If SV stopped all SV mining now and moved over to BCH mining, it would have no effect at all on the security of the BCH chain and would in fact allow the hashing power on the BCH chain to move back over to the BTC chain for higher rewards.
CSW isn't a genius, he's not even of average intelligence. He's a fucking muppet with an endless wallet of bluffs and no shame at all about endlessly throwing them out, and that's fucking all.

>>11823275
As much as it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, >>11822188 is the pure and simple truth of the matter.

>>11819775
Fuck people here are short sighted. Everybody acting like this crash is a bad thing. Tsk tsk tsk....

You get cheap bitcoin and all the shitcoins also.

This is only a good thing and if you dont understand why, you are going to stay poor forever.

Now fuck off

>>11820367
Imagine thinking normies are the key to crypto’s success and not miners. Brainlet

>>11823373
>If SV stopped all SV mining now and moved over to BCH mining, it would have no effect at all on the security of the BCH chain and would in fact allow the hashing power on the BCH chain to move back over to the BTC chain for higher rewards.

Nonsense, I never mentioned security it has nothing to do with it, it's simple: block rewards are limited and more difficulty = more competition for block rewards. Roger is forced to hold a 51% majority on his ABC chain by renting hash from BTC miners, when the difficulty is higher then Roger is getting less ABC for the BTC he is paying his miners.

>would in fact allow the hashing power on the BCH chain to move back over to the BTC chain for higher rewards.

When ABC miners move back over to BTC then SV if free to 51% attack your shitcoin

>>11822230
The old chain died and two new ones were formed - the ABC (Bitmain and Bitcoin.com's) chain and the SV (Craig's) chain.

The issue here is that there is no replay protection. If you don't taint your coins so that they are only valid on one chain, and you spend them on one chain, the other chain might pick them up and mine them into a block as well. Thus you may unintentionally send someone X BCHABC + X BCHSV instead of just X BCHABC.

This replay problem wasn't there when BCH forked off from Bitcoin (Core).

Now, the hashwar: Craig Wright (creator of SV) has said on Twitter (twitter.com/ProfFaustus) that he intends to reorg the ABC chain so that it halts forever, by having more hashpower than the ABC guys. Which means that he intended to mine not just his own SV chain, but also the ABC chain, maliciously. This hasn't happened yet, but he promised he'd do it in the next two years, while selling BTC (Bitcoin (Core)) on exchanges and crashing its price in the process so he can fund his mining adventure.

>>11823824
To make matters worse, some services expect untainted coins (valid on both chains).

Also, Craig has promised that he'd do unspeakable things (literally, he hasn't explained what) to your coins on the SV chain if you spend them only on the ABC chain.

>>11823210
And we'll have the last laugh.

>>11821409
You do know he is trolling you, no one is this stupid.

>>11823962
Only in the sense that all kids with downs syndrome do.

>>11823817
You are too stupid to breathe. You can't 51 percent attack without 51 percent. Which eliminates everything else you sperged out with.

>>11824054
Never underestimate the stupidity of a csw pleb

>>11824299
Keep being smug all you want, bch will bury itself in this civil war.

>>11824365

>>11824312
You can threaten a 51% attack by having close to 51%, forcing the other party to increase their hash in response

>>11824652
https://cash.coin.dance
> super optimistically 2 exahash is a 51% of 5.4 exahash.
Suck my cock. Learn to math. Csw is a pleb and you are an ultra pleb

>>11819775
I hope they burn in Hell
Fast