/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11650311

>Criticizing the free market

Didn't have to watch it to know it's full retard

>>11650412
So if 1 thing is criticised, everything else is automatically invalid?

He points out a lot of corruption and abuse both current and historical. But, he blames it on us and makes the perpetrators look like the saviors. It's pretty clever.

He frames Obama as the one that will stop the corruption when in reality he's the biggest beneficiary. Meanwhile, Reagan is the bad guy, somebody who actually fought against the corruption and got shot for it.

The premise fails because we dont have a free market or real capitalism. We have a manipulated market and crony capitalism.

All systems of control are inevitably subverted to grant more power to those at the top. Until we have a future we a perfectly balanced free market plus socialist mechanisms to take care of the needy, we will forever demonize whatever system we live under and not demonize the people in charge.

>>11650665
Moore hates Obama and the Democrats, are you retarded?

>>11650694
What the fuck are you talking about you fucking blind/deaf mongrel? Moore spends almost 15 minutes of the film literally sucking Obama's cock on camera. What the fuck are you trying to say?

>>11650311
He misses the same point that many other left leaning people miss; we do not have capitalism in the purest form. We are tainted with cronyism and we can thank both sides of our system for that.

>>11650736
>>11650676
>it wasn't real communism

>>11650311
I was demsoc leaning until I paid to watch that shit movie. I had been a fan of Moore's since TV Nation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HLwYyYQqBk

The sob stories about boomers taking on shitloads of debt without taking responsibility for their own poor decisions kinda made me lose respect for them.
It's like a prostitute whining about how their pimp keeps all of their money while they do all of the hard work. Sure, it's a life ruining decision, but it was their decision.

>>11650412
Found the freetard. I laugh at people who jack off to "free markets."

>>11650771
Exactly. Once you faggots start realizing communism v. capitalism is a fucking meme, and that Good v. Evil is the real shit, you'll start making better investments.

>>11650585

If you start with a false premise all your conclusions will be wrong :^)

>>11650665
Obama was indeed depicted better than he actually was. I really can't defend Regan though, he made the rich richer and acted like Don's bitch.

>>11650776
Hmm I agree, nice analogy by the way, but don't you think that raising interest rates (doubling) them is a somewhat evil thing to do? The shown commercials made to encourage people to refinance is a bit scammy? Nice video BTW.

>>11650311
Obese "leftist" boomer profits immensely from capitalism by pretending to hate it. People eat it up and throw him millions of dollars. I think he might be /our guy/, lads.

>>11651039
Kek

>>11650788
communism is evil

>>11651124
The 1%is richer than 90% guess which - ism I'm talking about. At least people can put food on the table in a capitalistic country.

>>11651124
Yes. Communism is what it looks like when Evil has taken complete and total control. In capitalism, it has to lurk in the shadows and try to pull strings from high places, hoping no one notices.

>>11651159
only when politicians and corporations try to undermine freedom
>In capitalism, it has to lurk in the shadows and try to pull strings from high places, hoping no one notices.

>>11651204
Watching Obama gasp for air has been pretty great.

>you lie... YOU LIE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdoo5mYw5Xo

Obligatory.

>>11650736

You mean like back in the day where your employer paid you in scrip and literally shot you for striking? That kind of unregulated market?

>>11651342
Once Holochain moons I have no qualms enslaving the normies and neither should you. Fuck humanity and fuck this planet. I want all of it to burn.

>>11651005
>but don't you think that raising interest rates (doubling) them is a somewhat evil thing to do?
Of course. But that's like saying it's evil for a pimp to slap a hoe. It's just what pimps do to hoes.

just thought this could use a bump

>>11650786
and they laugh about your poverty, mooch

>>11650676
Ban sophomore year posters plz

>>11650311
>hurrr durrr muh capitalism is bad
Literally brainlet-tier "ideology"
I don't know how anyone can be /leftypol/ unironically without getting embarrassed. Part of me thinks it's a really elaborate troll effort.

Very few intelligent people support capitalism. Here is a good Non-Compete video.

https://youtu.be/8aHvA0KHXqM

>>11651342
You just described pure capitalism though. Pure capitalism = slavery. Theres nothibg more capitalist that owning people and chattel

>>11650776
Lol I liked the Ford guy. Called Michael out on his faggy little dick liberal bullshit

>>11652852
Capitalism is the worst economic system known to man, except everything else.
Socialism always results in a never ending spiral of failure, paranoia and infighting, because it's based on criminalizing personal interests to prop up "the greater good".

>>11652952
I liked the ford guy too. He even drove a Mustang. I remember during the auto bailout the CEOs got called out for driving foreign car. But Ford didn't even need a bail out, because they respected their own product.

>>11652753
nigger if you think the market is free or fair in any way you're probably not rich at all. the amount of exploitation, cronyism, and corruption involved is actually hurting free markets/capitalism in the long (short?) run

>>11652852
You can't argue with facts. There are fewer people living in poverty post-capitalism than at any other time in human history. and I'm talking about real poverty. The kind of poverty where you will go without food if the harvest is bad or you don't have any access to clean water.
The poor have not gotten poorer.

Bump

>>11652852
idiot capitalism may not be perfect but it's the one system that works and produces results and provides the best quality of life most choices and opportunity.

>>11653182
>The poor have not gotten poorer.
i think it depends on the time frame.

well there is a very easy way to understand what is going on: think of money as something that has gravity. more money will pull more money together faster. this accumulation of wealth is unavoidable. you can try tax the rich to redistribute money but the rich have the most means and motivation for avoiding taxes, and there is an important factor that plays the most crucial role in the process:

basically if you assess and manage your risks properly your wealth will grow and if you don't you will lose money. and that is why 99% is poor. because they can't fucking manage risk. and that is why the capitalist is rich because he fucking can. owning the means of production for example comes with great risk it's a fucking investment nothing is free if the investment doesn't pan out if the market rejects the product all that money is gone. workers may not get the profit but they also have zero risk of their capital.

>>11653032

What personal interests does socialism have to criminalize?

>>11653888
>capitalist has more risk
>when corporations can declare bankruptcy without any liability on the shareholders' personal holdings
Suuuuuuuure

>>11653918
in case of a bankruptcy the shareholders are the last to get anything from the companies assets. first the liabilities of the comapny are settled then bond holders are paid and whatever if any left on the bones is what the shareholders can divide up.

>>11653939
the shareholders owe money in bankruptcy you brainlet

>>11653949
you are just contradicting yourself while not making any sense here.

>>11653897
This isn't reddit so it's not gonna be easy to bring up citations.
But look at the history of communism in practice. At first they want worker owned means of production, with collectives and co-ops. But the co-ops and collectives end up in the gulags. That's because they wind up serving their own interests.

Even in Ancom Catalonia, they ended up lynching the stable boys and bar tenders. Because commies have a never ending list of goods and services they think are oppressing them.

Red China won't let you bring literature from the outside world, because they could contain general ideas that could oppress them.

In Venezuela, they don't allow goods and services to flow through the nation freely and set strict price controls, so prices can't fluctuate with supply and demand. So goods are being smuggled out or hoarded. Toilet paper is being used as a store of value.

>>11654040

It wasn't real communism. BOOM

>>11654040
I just visited Shanghai for 14 days and nobody gave me any trouble for my SKAGBOIZ and Catch 22 in my backpack, when they scanned it.

>>11650771
>>11650786
>>11652852
>>11652915
>>11653032
>>11654115
Retardpilled

>>11654115
it's subjective, so it depends on how strict the minders are

Also, they've grown some respect for regional autonomy. For example, hong kong is technically under communist rule, but it still has crazy Milton Friedman standards. China could drop the hammer and sickle on them if they stood up to the central planners. But they don't want to ruin a good thing.

>>11653949
no they don't that is the entire point of limited liability. The liability of a shareholder only goes up to the nominal amount paid for when shares are first subscribed for when a company is founded. Amazon's share's nominal value is $0.01. investors only lose the exchange value of their share, they lose nothing over that. Creditors only come first in the queue when a company goes bankrupt because no bank would lend money if they didn't, precisely because shareholders don't have to contribute to the company debts.

>>11654900
They owe, but dont need to pay.
Thats my point

>>11654040
Nah the kulaks ended up being repressed in the process of dekulakisation, that wasn't collectives or co-ops, that was the creation of the co-ops and collectives. The kulaks were more like wealthier land-owning peasants who made other peasants work for them on their land, like a throwback to feudal land ownership, only the kulaks weren't noble, or had the backing of the state. The process of dekulakisation was done really violently and stupidly, and lots of kulaks resisted by killing the draft-horses and burning the grain, which is understandable, but that did also contribute to the big famine/holodomor a year or so later.