/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11566228
Nah we here b. 12m here. I have complete faith we will push 1k vits by EoY.

Not much going on right now. But we're here.

1.7m holochad.

>>11566321
>Vits

Who the fuck trades in anything but Bitcoin holy shit the absolute state of Holofags

>>11566363
this desu

>>11566363
Because BTC is complete and utter useless corporatized shit. Why the fuck would I ever trade precious holo for that?

>>11566363
Because gwei is more accurate at the moment, faggot. HOT is extremely cheap because of its supply. It's also a fucking ERC20 and people are trading it on IDEX. Fucking retard.

>>11566398
>>11566469
>Getting mad when people call you out on your retardation

>>11566228
2.1 M reporting for duty. The coin hasn't moved much recently because we are waiting on the next big piece of news. Volume will 10X when it happens and we will approach (and possibly surpass) 24 sats again.

>>11566502
>not having any good reason why I would want BTC
>not having any good reason that it is a better pair for HOT

>>11566555
I have tons but your sunk cost fallacy will prevent you from accepting them.

Holding about 10mil of these. Gonna make it big.

>>11566502

If the price of holo is at 17 says, then it can only move +/- 6% at a time. If you trade it in gwei you can follow smaller movements.

>>11566363
Trading crypto in btc is like trading stocks in units of gold

>>11566398
>BTC is complete and utter useless corporatized shit
the entire fucking state of /biz/ holy fucking kek

>>11566398
>wastes precious btc for erc-20 shittoken
>"Why the fuck would I ever trade precious holo for that"
goddamn it you just made my day thank you anon god bless you

>>11566778
>>11566749

still no rebuttle, here are some more complaints I have with BTC

Horrible UX
It's expensive compared to other centralized and decentralized projects
You can't store anything on it
Mining is 80% centralized so it isn't decentralized
Lead devs are selling other chains to companies because BTC is so useless by their design
Store of value meme is failing

>>11566363
Need to stamp out this stupid shit of charting vs ETH whenever it shits the bed to try and make your garbage rubbish look better.
Fuck that.
It's going down.

>>11566815
You are probably trolling, but the info in some of these rebuttles is worth being observed by other lurkers, the only reason why I bothered responding back to such silly points made.

>Horrible UX
Depends on the wallet and software.
>It's expensive compared to other centralized and decentralized projects
What.
>You can't store anything on it
You can, but it is expensive. Why? Censorship resistance. Wikileaks stores data on the Bitcoin blockchain. No other coin comes close to Bitcoin's ability to avoid censorship, review Proof of Work to understand why.
>Mining is 80% centralized so it isn't decentralized
UASF proves you wrong.
>Lead devs are selling other chains to companies because BTC is so useless by their design
Side chains, which then move around the UTXO. This is an opt-in innovation.
>Store of value meme is failing
While true, Bitcoin's store of value meme is failing the slowest in the entire crypto industry.

>>11566815
yes, you obviously haven't gotten what makes btc so much more valuable than any altcoin. it's just so funny because that's what ultimately reveals an absolute newfag. if you don't know why btc will shit on almost every altcoin you're 100% a post summer 2017 fag. look another thread i just saw, these guys know >>11566630

50m here. In Since 13sats. Adamantium hands

>>11566874
Ok here we go

>Horrible UX
Depends on the wallet and software.
>UX isn't just a software problem. It's the fee market and broadcasting transactions without the completing.

>It's expensive compared to other centralized and decentralized projects
What.
>Cost per transaction is more

>You can't store anything on it
You can, but it is expensive. Why? Censorship resistance. Wikileaks stores data on the Bitcoin blockchain. No other coin comes close to Bitcoin's ability to avoid censorship, review Proof of Work to understand why.
>they stored those on there when it was cheap to do so, there are now no storage services where they used to be abundant. China could also socialize all pools and mining farms in China and censor the chain - provably. Look at maps of hashrate distribution. This isn't even debated at this point.

>Mining is 80% centralized so it isn't decentralized
UASF proves you wrong.
>Has absolutely nothing to do with miners. That was a softfork where nodes & wallets just had to accept the transactions, not the miners.

>Lead devs are selling other chains to companies because BTC is so useless by their design
Side chains, which then move around the UTXO. This is an opt-in innovation.
>please explain to me how them selling an upgraded version of the same blockchain for profit and not publishing it as an official core fork or even a proposal isn't proof that they are destroying the main chain to sell their goods.

>Store of value meme is failing
While true, Bitcoin's store of value meme is failing the slowest in the entire crypto industry.
>holochain, the thread that you invaded is up 600% because it is useful and innovative. So I suppose it is a better store of value?

>>11567685
>UX isn't just a software problem. It's the fee market and broadcasting transactions without the completing.
Wallets will improve on this. Mobile wallets will become dominant and will likely have Lightning routing built in.

>Cost per transaction is more
Proof of work requires energy. That is what you are paying for, and it gets you censorship resistance. For cheaper transactions, use a layered scaling solution.

>Has absolutely nothing to do with miners. That was a softfork where nodes & wallets just had to accept the transactions, not the miners.
UASF is demonstratable proof that mining may be centeralized in China due to economic reasons, but the mining of the protocol does not centralize the protocol itself. Trilemma.
>please explain to me how them selling an upgraded version of the same blockchain for profit and not publishing it as an official core fork or even a proposal isn't proof that they are destroying the main chain to sell their goods.
It is for exchanges primarily, it allows the exchanges to account and perform settlement using multisig. Sidechains are opt-in improvements, how is this a bad thing?

>holochain, the thread that you invaded is up 600% because it is useful and innovative. So I suppose it is a better store of value?
Holochain is young and unproven. Bitcoin has nearly ten years of proven usage, holochain is objectively less practically proven. I don't know a single thing about holochain and don't care to know about it since it has less use-case than Bitcoin did six years ago.

Proof of Work is Bitcoin's killer app and the breakthrough.

Goodbye.

>>11566363
Because if you trade high supply coins in sats you are over paying silly faggot

>>11567798
>currency
>compute
>hosting
>machine learning assisted content look-up

More use cases undoubtedly, not things that a VM implementation of BTC couldn't have solved but that won't be happening with cuckstream at the helm. But yes it is unproven.

Either way as a business owner BTC is unusable after 10 years and I would rather speculate on platforms that *may* be usable in the future as decentralized currency/computing.

last days of 2018 and HOT is the only token worth owning

You mean holovirgins

>>11569431
yes

>>11566398

>not trading between 16 and 18 sats on repeat and increasing your supply

fag

>>11569352
Not true, but it's the most solid hold for sure.

>>11569679
How long does it take between trades? Im having an open buy order at 16 sats for hours now... this shit wont move

>>11570845
Days and then if you get caught out you are fucked.

>>11566228
Q4 is going to be sweet.

just so im clear.... pic related is what i need to be accumulating, yes? because thats what ive been doing so far

>>11571123
Yeah - Holochain HOT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbM-vGsiwOo
New AMA

>>11571143
thanks

>>11571143
wait are you buying holochain or holo? or does it matter/they end up the same thing?? sorry but im confused a bit

>>11571229
HOT is the token to host the hApps unless you want to run the nodes yourself or you get a community to do it.

>>11571229
https://humm.earth

This is a good example. Currently they have the nodes running the holochain code, hosting the site in 4 different countries but at launch they are switching to HOT for a more reliable hosting.

Holochain investors think crypto can work without a consensus algorithm at all.

>>11571256
>>11571268
hmm okay I think I understand now, thanks.

Highlight of todays AMA with Matthew

GDPR is really going to accelerate adoption for Holochain and Holo.

Mesh networks are on the radar.

In talks with members of UN about mutual credit currencies and different flows of value.

HoloFuel could well be the first true use case of micro payments that works and has many use cases.

Ethereum is expensive, slow and unscalable. Developers don't like it and some are leaving for Holo. A few on their team

They are looking for solutions to punch through firewalls.

>>11571341
Holochain investors know that consensus happens on an app basis via validated data propagation

Holochain investors know that consensus in DHT networks has been solved for 20 years

Holochain investors know that you can guarantee data integrity without global consensus

>>11571341Because the real world works this way -- meaning, the physically distributed systems outside of computers. Atoms, molecules, cells, bodies each maintain the integrity of their individual and collective state just fine without consensus on a global ledger.

https://developer.holochain.org/What_is_Holochain_s_Consensus_Algorithm

>>11571516
Agent-centric consensus is already an inherent feature of any group human activity. Just a fancy way of saying nothing at all.

>>11571575
Yeah, all of the FUD is stupid. It's always non-technical people who don't understand what purpose consensus even serves for their bitrock.

Holochain is better because it's massively more scalable and does not require POW, POS, or global consensus.

>>11571484
>>11571516
Lesser BFT systems are capable of retaining integrity over time because of the absence of passionate human actors. In cases where the behavior or human actors must be constrained and regulated, all incentives that motivate human action must be taken into consideration. This complicates the task tremendously, and is something that mankind has struggled with for millenia. Holochain's design philosophy is that there shall be no artifical mechanism to assist the process of reaching consensus on their networks. This implicitly defers such intervention to traditional means. TL;DR Holochain has no value as a cryptocurrency.

>>11571730
Holochain has machine learning systems at a protocol layer to manage reputation and uses multi sig to prevent double spends.

So you are completely wrong and a fucking moron!

>>11571782
Ok, let me get this straight. First, you rip out the consensus algorithm to achieve scalability because it is a difficult technical problem to solve and you'd rather skip ahead to the fun part selling shittokens to plebs. And now you're trying to convince people you have trained decentralized expert systems managing human agent reputations, but you only mention this after i call you out on how bullshit your agent-centric consensus rebranding of literally nothing is. And then I am the moron for not buying into your vaporware scam?

>>11571927

1.5M HOLOCHAD PARAGLIDING IN.

>>11571927
try not to kys after HOT is worth .02c by next summer

>>11566815
Wtf you mean you can't store shit on it? Retard

>>11572095
>>11572280
>zero value cryptocurrency
>vaporware scam
>degenerate community
>team are crooks
Holocucks so absolutely BTFO they have no words left. fuck the fuck off and go peddle your scam on reddit instead.

>>11573465
fuck off you core cuck faggot

>>11573465
Anon, we are having such a good and chill thread, why you be like that?

>>11571927
>rip out consensus algo
is there a more core cucked statement?

>And now you're trying to convince people you have trained decentralized expert systems managing human agent reputations
Reputations are based on transactions. Same as reputation on ebay. A vote up or down enough times can give a reputation that can be trusted. All events are signed by multiple parties but everyone in the world should not need to sign off on me giving you 100 neet bux.

>>11566228
19MM reporting for doody. Holding until 1$

>>11573742
>core cucked
The consensus algorithm of a cryptocurrency, and resultant decentralization, exists to replace the need for the application of none other than violent brute force by the might of the government and its henchmen.
>All events are signed by multiple parties
Every time, signed by the same exclusive parties, which leads to the formation of special rules that govern the conduct of these exclusive parties. This is commonly referred to as corruption, but it should be viewed as a natural feature of centralized systems of human organization.
>bu-buh its only 100 neet bux
To human beings, the ability to own property is a prerequisite for all things in life, from the most basic necessities of survival, to more highfalutin indulgences such as the pursuit of happiness.

>>11571341
>>11571575
>>11571730
>>11571927
>>11573465
>>11573958
Based and redpilled.

>>11571466
>Mesh networks are on the radar.
Wtf I love Holo now

Makes me want to buy more skycoin desu, seems like validation for that idea

>>11566228
Almost at 1 million holo. Got a buy order in at 16 sats that'll put me over if it dips a little.

It's hard to get a good judgment on anything to invest in with this board, the autism overpowers everything.

>>11571927
Hm yeah so what are the specific functions of proof of work? Looks like he addressed them and you are left holding your shit in your hands because you are obsessed with monolithic implementations when everyone else in the space is moving past it.

Literally every top coin is ditching PoW because of its inherent limitations. Deluded BTC fags.

>>11574704
Take a break from biz then and read these instead:

https://medium.com/holochain/perspectives-on-blockchains-and-cryptocurrencies-7ef391605bd1
https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/holochain-the-perfect-framework-for-decentralised-cooperation-at-scale-2/2018/07/26
https://holo.host/whitepapers/
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/holo-take-back-the-internet-shared-p2p-hosting-community#/
https://github.com/Holochain/holochain-proto/wiki/FAQ
https://medium.com/h-o-l-o/holo-the-evolution-of-cloud-computing-57a0a281b88b
https://medium.com/h-o-l-o/holos-erc20-token-hot-and-mutual-credit-cryptocurrency-holo-fuel-6d8b6d3938d6
https://medium.com/holochain/holochain-reinventing-applications-d2ac1e4f25ef
https://medium.com/h-o-l-o/agent-centric-digital-identity-5314d507f0ab
https://blockonomi.com/holochain-guide/
https://steemit.com/crypto/@elysium-renegade/an-extensive-review-of-holochain-a-different-kind-of-cryptobeast
https://hackernoon.com/wtf-is-holochain-35f9dd8e5908
https://cryptobriefing.com/holochain-code-review-and-distributed-computing-thoughts/
https://smartoptions.io/hodl-that-12-beam-me-up-holochain/
https://www.ouishare.net/article/fixing-the-internet-how-holochain-wants-to-change-the-way-we-interact
https://www.ouishare.net/article/holochain-the-beginnings-of-a-brave-new-internet-vol-ii
https://www.investinblockchain.com/holo-promether-partnership/

>>11574704
Go back to plebbit then
No one owes you anything here

>>11575303
Btfo onions boy

>>11575374
Don't let that meanie get to you, anon. I hope you make it.

>>11575246
BTC maximalists understand that there never will be enough hashpower to go around. That's why all other coins are shitcoins.
> what are the specific functions of proof of work?
POW makes it so you have to expend the same amount of hashpower as you did in the original blockchain in order to rewrite it.
>>11571782
>uses multi sig to prevent double spends.
I hope this idiot is just talking out his ass. multisig requirement would mean that no holo holder can ever own their own private key because of multisig. property rights are nonexistent.