/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11472166

As a white dude, what is it about white women and wheat fields that makes me feel so fucking comfy?

>>11472174
Its our heritage and destiny.

>>11472307
being a peasant ?

>>11472307
based and whitepilled. honestly I'd hold and use less than 10% for catching moons.

Yes sell low buy hi bro

do it biz way

>>11472174
It reminds you of your ancestors.

>>11472166
Yes. And buy more with fiat to arbitage your loss. Thats what i did 2014, i bouht in at the ath and it went down to 1/6, but i just bought more. Now is the time to buy xmr.

>>11472166

funny, i was contemplating exactly the same earlier today

>>11472610
>>11472617
I want to but just dont have the nerve to sell at such a loss. Eth will recover, right?

Eth is a mess

>>11472803
you arent selling at a loss cause xmr is down a lot too from when eth was 475.

>>11472166

hodl, dont fucking sell eth after that huge correction

wait for bounce nov/dec

>>11472166
I’d stay in ETH. If you want to get out then wait for a big bounce. I think ETH and XMR will bleed about the same if the bear market continues, but ETH has more upside potential (at least in the short term).

>>11472166
take the loss and move into fiat, buy back in 1 year or more whatever is left, probalby btc, ltc, xmr....

>>11473504
>>11473532
If you want to gamble do what these guys say. Monero is guaranteed to be worth more in terms of ETH and fiat at some point in the relatively near future though. Also for the last few years Monero had pumped vs btc around September (we haven't seen this years pump yet)

>>11472307
This.

>>11473699
muh this year pump

>>11472166
it's good we have idiots like you in the world. if not there would be far too many millionaires in a few years.

>>11473708
Just facts. Of course last two years at least were objectively bull markets. You could be right and fiat is still best for another year but the upside to Monero is so large that it is really not worth taking the risk of missing the rocket when at this point it might lose another 50% at worst.

>>11473749
ETH is going to bleed forever now with a few relief pumps. It should have died spectacularly after events such as the DAO but delusion was to high. It looks like it's going to be a gradual realisation from more and more holders over time that ethereum will never work or do anything useful.

>>11473804
I sort of feel this way. If it doesn't correct this winter I'd go to XMR as well.

>>11472166
If you are asking for real, sell at a loss and then kill yourself idiot. Or not, first wait for ETH to pump, THEN kill yourself

>>11472166
Monero isn’t about to “moon” anytime soon, but in terms of crypto it’s the safest bet on the planet. I’d rather have the equivalent amount of XMR than BTC at this point.

>>11473890
Traditionally Monero has "mooned" it's way higher. Many times people say they were fucking around with other coins, planning to put it into the "more stable Monero" later and then xmr just pumped hard as fuck on them. Usually it will retrace after that to somewhere above where it started but it's easy to fomo in as it's going up. It's harder to see this on the charts looking back because of the scale of growth but it's happened plenty of times.

>>11473804
this mentality is really interesting. we're never going to agree with each other since that's the way the world works, but what I can tell you is while I may be an "ETH maximalist," I'm not a mETH head like a liberal is a democrat or a conservative is republican. I'm not in the ETH camp because of some ideology or through indoctrination (like the BTC vs. BCH folks).

after being in the crypto market for over 5 years, I know the only chain that is aligned with the direction blockchain tech is going is ETH. decentralized smart contracts are the only foreseeable future for *public* blockchains. I think most companies will have private chains modeled much like EOS, centrally controlled but publicly accessible, which failed as a public chain but will thrive as a private one. and the payment market satoshi tried to replace still benefits from centralization since the public needs to be able to reverse transactions (in the context of a payment market).

so, along with private chains, banks and money transmitters already have competing products that kill the use case for payment blockchains, especially with domestic payments, and cheap international payments will be here soon enough. so smart contracts and non-fungible tokens like ERC-721 will fill a gap in a decentralized fashion that private companies and banks won't be able to.

honestly I think it boiled down to "solid dev teams." BTC should have been what ethereum is now, so vitalik stopped trying to help them and made his own chain since blockstream took over. EOS should have beat ethereum at the smart contract game, but they got greedy and chose profit over decentralization. we already knew DPoS was flawed but they didn't change it, just collected ICO funds. the eth team's autism unironically will carry them through as the surviving chain though, until another dev team can surpass them.

>>11472166
Lol no i sold my xmr for bat

>>11473804
one caveat though, I do think bitcoin may become a physical gold competitor. people like to tote that it has no intrinsic value - but it's a digital token that only needs an internet connection to send anywhere in the world, and it's impossible to counterfeit. that's more intrinsic value than the US dollar has, and is basically exactly the same as physical gold or bartering animal skins of the past.

bitcoin as a payment system is a retarded pipe dream though.

>>11473983
My perspective is smart contracts will happen on second layers. The base layer should be rock solid. With ethereum the base chain has too large an attack surface and the scalability is terrible, almost nobody runs a node, trustless transactions don't really exist. With bitcoin the base chain is not fungible. With both the mining is becoming centralized.

Monero is fungible digital money and a solid foundation for anything valuable you think needs to be built in the blockchain age.

>>11474071
Also bitcoin can't scale (ETH neither when they implement a hard cap on supply (which is baffling that people invest with the economics not worked out and at Vitalik's whim)).

Monero's tail emission allows for flexible block sizes and provides security for the chain in the future when bitcoin has to hope a fee market emerges and provides a viable security model.

>>11474071
>>11474181
I run a node, but I also agree with you to an extent. which goes back to my point about the dev teams, I think that's where the distinction lies.

I think a second layer for smart contracts is a cleaner solution, my chain folder is 265GB right now. I believe there might be issues or decentralization risks in trying to do that in a 2nd layer in practice though since the smart contracts need to execute in a virtual machine type environment (ex: the ethereum evm), so even if it was done as a "2nd layer" it would look more like a parallel primary layer since the architecture is so different. it would risk drastically over-complicating the intended parent chain, which in theory should host the evm. doing payments in a simple smart contract is trivial, but executing a smart contract on a payment designed layer basically means a complete overhaul.

I also think privacy coins will have a use case forever due to dark net markets, and the price of them will probably go hand in hand with how easy they are to acquire anonymously (and it's getting very difficult). does XMR even have plans for smart contracts though? and would anonymous payment traffic ever test the constraints of the current network capacity even? do that many people really need to buy drugs on a daily basis

so if someone can do it, I will happily dump my whole ETH stack and buy up their token. I think this is a technology and developer problem, not a ETH vs. BTC vs. XMR problem, and I just don't see the BTC/XMR dev teams with blockstream and a faggot furry behind the reigns allowing such drastic changes to take place, not in the near future anyways. the eth team at least has a plan, even if it keeps getting delayed, which is why I'm still with them.

>>11474215
forgot pic

>>11474215
Don't think of Monero as a privacy coin. It is digital money. It is what bitcoin was supposed to be. On a public blockchain mandatory privacy is required to make each coin fungible.
https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/1967/what-is-fungibility-and-why-does-it-matter

This would mean it's not just for drug purchases. It would potentially be THE money of the world.

By comparison, despite a few years of ethereum being available to build on for years, there isn't one good example of a useful smart contract. It's not a priority with xmr devs. Making side chains a reality is a priority and no doubt someone will build a smart contract side chain that you could deposit xmr in and out of. Also you can look into Tari which is looking at making a tokens side chain.

In terms of drastic changes you will never see Turing complete smart contracts on xmr base chain. There will be multisig which can get you a lot of the most useful smart functionality but monero won't be the world computer. In terms of sensible changes though, they are very much possible on Monero and there have been many. Monero has a very capable dev team that is building out a vision, implementing the best techniques as they become available. This as opposed to bitcoin which is in some weird state of never being alterable except by some tricks and hacks sometimes.

>>11473986
Patrician

>>11474448
>there isn't one good example of a useful smart contract
Monero scales worse than BTC and isn't even truly "private."

Now that the FUD's out of the way, please return to rational discourse.

>>11474012
>physical gold competitor
>payment system is retarded

pick one. with gold you can have it as a retarded payment system and be a store of value, something digital meant for utility while simultaneously acting as a store of value must have that utility, IE: monero. monero is superior to bitcoin in every way

Monero is the worst of them all. No scaling and 100% guaranteed to get regulated and eventually purged from central exchanges

>>11474618
bulletproofs cause it to scale exceptionally well actually and makes it even more private. nothing is 100%, or "truly" private like you said. there's always a chance you can be revealed by someone or entity, but to the average person it's pretty damn private

>>11474661

>>11474661
This. XMR will drop like a rock if it gets delisted. It is a good concept but a terrible investment if you are looking for something that will appreciate over time

>>11474640
>>11474448
good, I'm glad XMR has potential good changes down the line since I've seen a lot of drama lately.

>superior to bitcoin in every way
I did forgot to mention timing matters as well. believe me, pretty much any altcoin is superior to bitcoin, and everyone outside of turbo-normies already knows that.

bitcoin was the first mover and is the standard market pair though which will take years to unwind. BTC is like the walmart of retail stores, it's shitty but isn't going anywhere anytime soon. it really has become physical gold 2.0 though, so
>physical gold competitor
>payment system is retarded
this isn't a valid comparison because you can't use physical gold in a normal payment market - I can't buy a loaf of bread with a hunk of gold. they're completely separate things. now you can in theory buy a loaf of bread with bitcoin/xmr, but much like gold it would be slow and difficult and not justify the effort involved for a simple loaf of bread - not ever for BTC probably, and not yet for XMR. so it's basically just a store of value since it was the first and biggest, and effectively mirrors how gold is horded now, as a physically secure store of value.

the hard problem most people ignore is payment coins, like XMR for example should never ever have price volatility. for cryptos price will partly be driven by supply and demand of the coin itself, but in theory a true currency should be flat in price volatility. buying a currency as an investment is an oxymoron which is why REQtards are so hilarious.

so I don't think XMR will ever hit $10k a coin, but it will remain expensive due to supply and demand. but a currency with a volatile price is something people will never adopt.

>>11474766
>the concept of a real anonymous peer to peer cash system is a terrible investment

>>11474796

>pretty much any altcoin is superior to bitcoin

wrong again, there is no altcoin superior to bitcoin yet except monero. monero is the first private, fungible, non scammy, decentralized, asic resistant, top 10 coin with bulletproofs successfully implemented. it's in a class of it's own because it is the first crypto to acquire all the properties of sound money.

>you can't use physical gold in a normal payment market
you can't physically hold bitcoin in your hand though, gold is tangible and can be used to barter in an economic collapse

bitcoin on the other hand cant ever be used as a global payment system like monero

>>11474796
currency with a volatile price is something people will never adopt.
the USD dropped -95% in 100 years

XMR is digital gold, BTC is a collectors item

>>11475018
butchered that last part of my post, meant to put your statement in green text

>>11475018
>wrong again, there is no altcoin superior to bitcoin yet except monero. monero is the first private, fungible, non scammy, decentralized, asic resistant, top 10 coin with bulletproofs successfully implemented. it's in a class of it's own because it is the first crypto to acquire all the properties of sound money.
I was talking from the technical standpoint and in generalities. most major alts with their own chains are superior to bitcoin, including XMR, we agree there. technical features don't create success though. EOS is probably the fastest most scaleable chain that exists, and nobody cares.

>you can't physically hold bitcoin in your hand though, gold is tangible and can be used to barter in an economic collapse
technically you can with paper wallets and private keys/phrases, but what I meant by that comparison was it's not practical enough yet to use cryptos in a normal retail driven payment market. the skill barrier especially is too high for the public, and banks are already releasing competitive payment systems to quash crypto payments.

I'm not opposed to "digital gold" at all. I think it's time physical gold was finally replaced. basically if it ever gets to the point we're buying bread and toilet paper with physical gold (or crypto if the internet still exists during the collapse), we're pretty much fucked already.

>XMR is digital gold, BTC is a collectors item
maybe, but not yet. I could see it happening in the future though but BTC would have to stagnate with development and wall street/SEC would need to take XMR under their wing. it's a long shot.

>>11474796
BTC as the security layer other protocols can leverage to offer a diversity of services and better performance. It doesn’t need to scale to be hugely valuable, since what it offers is unmatched security guaruntee. How bout that?

>>11475156
yes, you've just described "digital gold" and I am not opposed to that at all. that's really all it's good for though. BTC does have a slight security guarantee problem though - the dev team is completely insane. I really do hope they don't fuck it up because it would take down the whole market.

>>11473983
Omg

Are you me?

I literally beleve smart contracts and nft are only usecase that makes sense for public chains and rest is just hype and memes for normies.

Second yes only reason i hold huge bags of this mess called ETH is dev team messured in quality and quantity..

I do disagree on btc.
I have some xmr and btc but btc cant be gold 2.0
By nature of it it can only stay speculative toy for big boys (there is value in it and money to be made).
Xmr i dunno... When push comes to shove privacy will be tested hard.

I know EOS is newfag ponzi cos of 21 producers and dpos im in space from 2014, but wondering your thought on ada?

Yes charles is basedboy and shilling fag but they git is stacked and some real coding going on there..

>>11475243
>By nature of it it can only stay speculative toy for big boys
honestly I think this is the only thing that will save BTC. for a long time it pissed me off but now I realize wall street chooses who lives and dies. bitcoin is the face of crypto to the public.

on ADA, I have different thoughts. I think they killed themselves with an insanely huge coin supply. it's been a tool for pump and dumps and nothing else since day 1, basically following the path of XRP (the OG high supply pump and dump coin), TRX, XVG, and most 2017 high supply dirt cheap shitcoins. so no matter how good ADA ever is, the vast majority of the coin supply will always be controlled by whales and chink whales who have no interest in success of the tech. might be a cool platform but it's a bleak investment opportunity unless you can time the pumps. basically straight gambling.

>>11473973
This is me xmr&req

second layers remove monero's key advantage, they don't remove ethereum's niche. long term monero can and will be replaced by privacy features in bitcoin or in one of bitcoin's sidechains or layers. ethereum is not in the same position.

>>11475018
for monero's continued existence beyond being another random speculative alt, it has to be constantly ahead of bitcoin in regards to privacy. when bitcoin catches up in privacy monero loses that key advantage, as do other payment tokens. don't fool yourself into thinking monero was the first anything, it's certianly not got the first mover advantage coins like bitcoin and ethereum have.

bitcoin is never going anywhere, so its all a matter of how fast theyre able to bring layers and thus new technologies to bitcoin. if you think they're going to take a long time, monero might be a good bet, but on a long enough time scale monero is not going to win out against bitcoin. borderless frictionless digital money in bitcoin allow economics and human psychology regards to wealth and money to play out in an even more frictionless way than we have with fiat currencies.

expecting monero to eventually take over bitcoin's position in the financial and social side of crypto is just as delusional as thinking nano is going to.

>>11475616
>if you think they're going to take a long time
how long did it take for them to make the blocksize/segwit decisions? years man, years. and that wasn't even a major change.

honestly I think bitcoin's best option is to focus on the store of value meme and keep the network secure and simple, but they will probably kill themselves with indecision and convoluted solutions to try to keep up with alt chains.

>>11475521
>>11475616
Let's get one thing out of the way. Fluctuations in price aside, Bitcoin can never function as sound money in the same way Monero does on its base chain layer because it isn't fungible, so of course Bitcoin is completely dependent on a secondary layer that adds privacy if this function could ever even be mentioned in the same breath as Monero. Monero may also be dependent on sidechains for SCALING purposes just as Bitcoin will be, but at least it won't be for fungibility.

Your implication that Bitcoin can "catch up" in privacy is fundamentally flawed. Bitcoin will never be fungible. Not now, not ever.

>>11475156
How about no. Unmatched Jihan guarantee maybe.

>>11472166
Why would anybody still hold that garbage Ponzi platform of ETH

Monero is what Bitcoin was always meant to be

>>11475115
>I was talking from the technical standpoint and in generalities.
???

>most major alts with their own chains are superior to bitcoin, including XMR, we agree there
>there is no altcoin superior to bitcoin yet except monero
>we agree there
???

>BTC would have to stagnate with development
implying it hasn't

>wall street/SEC would need to take XMR under their wing
???

>maybe, but not yet
gold = fungible = monero
collectors item = non-fungible = bitcoin
as of currently, right now.

>>11472803
>>11472998
This
they're both down similarly.

>>11474618
So triggered you couldn't find an example of a useful smart contract you decided to post some random incorrect statement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9mzp8f/understanding_articmines_comments_re_monero/

>>11472174
Because they use high tech cameras and filters designed to make it look comfy. Its just an idealization and you have to remember that most women are bitchy as fuck, most aren't attractive (even with make up, but without it thats a whole other story), and that a real wheat field doesn't look anywhere near as good.

Also its taking place during sunset which makes it more comfy.

ETH unironically 2k in 3 months.

>>11476895
I know we’re mooning again at some point, but I think four figures comes after the hard fork in January and not before.

Eth is non functional with regards to smart contracts that have to preform. EOS is eating it’s lunch, just look at the dapp radar volume, or even just try interacting with EOS dapps va eth dapps. Normies wont care about meh decentralization if they are paying no fees and it’s instantaneous.

>>11476679
What are ICOs, what is any DEX?

>>11478153
>What are ICOs
A dead meme that nobody will fall for after 2017?
>what is any DEX?
You do realize it's possible to have a DEX that isn't ETH based right? There are alternatives. Also elaborate on your comment
>Monero isn't even truly "private"
so we can all laugh at how obtuse you're being.

>>11472166
x
r
p

>>11478288
As stated originally, I was FUDposting, since that anon made an obviously incorrect statement about smart contracts that gets parroted by morons. Now can we get back to reasonable discussion?