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11367747 No.11367747 [Reply] [Original]

https://youtu.be/vAUHmram7RU?t=1809

Vitalik Buterin, Joseph Poon and Karl Floersch were discussing decentralized oracles yesterday. The awareness of Chainlink as a decentralized oracle network was completely was clueless.

Vitalik being quiet. Why? Discuss the Toyota of Oracles.

>> No.11367754

>>11367747
because he knows ethereum smart contracts depend on the network. hes the ultimate cuck

>> No.11367841

>>11367754
This

>> No.11367947

Vitalik started to touch his face immediately after mentioning of decentralized oracles. Like he was hiding from the question.

https://www.improveyoursocialskills.com/body-language/discomfort-field-guide
>Face Touching or Face Rubbing
>There are also nerve endings in your face, so some people will rub their face to comfort themselves. Look for rubbing the forehead, rubbing the eyes, playing with the hair, rubbing lips---all of these are behaviors people use to calm themselves down. People will also sometimes puff out their cheeks and exhale.

>> No.11367955

He knows LINK is going to flip ETH and will do anything he can to delay it

>> No.11367965

he's thinking about enigma obviously
mainnet q4 2018

>> No.11367972

This. Vitalik's body language

>> No.11367973

>>11367747
POON IS THE OMG SCAMMER

>> No.11367998

What is his interest? Why isn't this problem discussed more openly?

It surely isn't accumulation. Wouldn't better promotion and improved collaboration ease the CL development process? He is certainly working closely with Plasma.

>> No.11368000

>>11367947
Exactly. What the fuck is Vitalik's problem?

>> No.11368018

>>11367955
checked

>> No.11368019

>>11367998
SEC...no shilling till mainnet

>> No.11368045

>>11368019
That it would be a proven utility token, right?

>> No.11368059
File: 107 KB, 1028x540, notthetimeyet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11368059

Decentralized Insurance Developer Conference is coming up on October 29.

I am sure we will have high quality discussions of oracles later this year.

>> No.11368086

>>11368000
Autism

>> No.11368111

>>11367747
timestamp?

>> No.11368117

>>11368000
He doesn't like Sergey.

>> No.11368120

>>11368111
30:09

>> No.11368131

>>11368059
Sergey is going to eat the Witnet and Oraclize guys

>> No.11368139

>>11368111
Also listen 5:46- and 28:00- for additional discussion.

>> No.11368143

>>11368000
Vitalik still has narcissistic tendencies. He has difficulties in accepting a legitimate challenge to the throne of crypto

>> No.11368174

>>11368139
Joseph Poon confirmed for Sergey worshipper

>> No.11368201

>>11368120
>>11368139
interesting, vitalik turns his head away at 5:46 after the mention of a decentralized oracle

>> No.11368207
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11368207

>>11367747
>tfw your project is about to become irrelevant

>> No.11368218

In a years time, Sergey will supplant Vitalik in panel discussions of this sort.

>> No.11368225
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11368225

>>11368174
yeah based poon in that video
literally no one fucking knows what chainlink is yet
>wemadeit

>> No.11368244

>>11368143
He supports bch because bitcoin infighting is good for eth but trashes dr. Craig satoshi because bch with full opcodes makes eth obslete.

That time he started ranting at Craig during the panel was outrageous. Vitality full on regressed into a four year old.

>> No.11368262

>>11367747
Poon is talking about literally the key to making crypto actually useful: peer-to-peer / decentralized oracles. Saying almost no-one is working on it.
Probably a ton of people in the audience didn't know the "two projects" he mentioned.

We're almost there, guys.

>> No.11368273

>>11368000
They said at the hackathon they will not be openly promoting projects until they have been released, tested and have a fair degree of certainty they work as intended and even gain some traction. I'm definitely misquoting but that was the jist of it. Trying to avoid more OMG type situation and price hyping. "Change the narrative"

>> No.11368284
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11368284

>>11368262
>"one or two"
kek

>> No.11368296

Pooon 75% of projects need a decentralized oracle network. Is he just so caught up with what he’s researching he hasn’t had time to google smartcontract.com I mean it sounds simple but he’s probably busy to worry about oracles

>> No.11368308

>>11368296
See
>>11368273

>> No.11368315

There's a giant chainlink hexagon behind them. It's right in everyone's faces. 1000 EOY

>> No.11368319

>>11367998
Vitalik created Ethereum as a platform for change and ChainLink allows all the entities from the current system to integrate painlessly; revolutionary technology without the revolution.

>> No.11368327
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11368327

>>11368059
I'll make it until then but not a day longer
So. fucking. hungry
t. oatmeal bro

>> No.11368359

>>11368059
Coinbase rep Bernstein and Sergey. thats what I like to see.

Hope that Coinbase wants to add a decentralized oracle token ;)

>> No.11368365

>>11367747
they literally have the chainlink logo behind them...

>> No.11368366

>>11368327
Keep strong oatmeal bro, we will make it.

>> No.11368382

>>11368273
There are many examples of him being negative towards members of the team disregarding him sperging out on twitter.

>> No.11368396
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11368396

>>11368131
yeah just look at them lol
sergey will literally eat them

>> No.11368398

>>11367747
By design, I would bet the farm Vitalik has a HUGE stack of Link. Totally confident they are working together on this project and the goal has ALWAYS been to keep the price down for now. Lower price means it is easier for more autists like many of on this board to acquire a large stack to help build a huge node network. Without that network this process never gets off the ground. Must have a HUGE supply of nodes as adoption kicks in. Once that is established the price of Link can go through the roof, which it needs to do so the node operators have significant risk if they perform poorly. In other words, you are a complete moron if you are not filling a bag of cheap link right now, while the price is being suppressed.

>> No.11368406

>>11367747
can someone tell me at which part the face touch was?

>> No.11368410
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11368410

>>11368201
holy shit

>> No.11368423
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11368423

>>11368410

>> No.11368434
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11368434

>>11368410
>>11368423

>> No.11368440

>>11368406
30:10

>> No.11368442

>>11368406
go to 28:00, somewhere there

>> No.11368443
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11368443

>>11368406
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
/INHALE/
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO VITALIK UNIRONICALLY IS TRIGERRED BY ORACLES THAT AUTIST 100 PERCENT BROWSE 4CHAN.
YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP

https://youtu.be/vAUHmram7RU?t=1810
At 30:10

>> No.11368541

>>11368443
Jason Parser? He’s Rory’s dad. He’s got a problem with Sergey because when Rory and Sergey were friends when they were younger, Sergey used to raid the cupboards and eat everything in the house. It cost Jason Parser a lot of money to replace all the food Sergey used to eat. The final straw was when Sergey was staying at Rory’s one night and stole his car when they were 15 to sneak out to a McDonald’s drivethru. Rory’s dad Jason thinks Sergey is a bad influence on his son and does anything he can to stop them being friends or working together. Why do you think we haven’t heard from Sergey in so long? Jason Parser has been staying with Rory and Sergey has been in hiding shitting his pants.

>> No.11368553

It appears that he begins to motion his hand towards his face before the word "oracle" is mentioned

>> No.11368587

>mfw Vitalik leaves Ethereum to create a true decentralized oracle solution

>> No.11368592
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11368592

>>11368440
>>11368442
>>11368443
thanks

>> No.11368660

>>11367947
Implying Vitalik isn't a robot with abnormal social cues

>> No.11368700

>>11368319
This.

>> No.11368719
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11368719

>>11368553
Yes but he also uncomfortably moves his head at 6.06. Although it may be just a coincidence. I think that vitalik just hates that /biz/ gave spotlight Sergey. It is not a secret that vitalik frequently goes to 4chan. He even defended eth at ico in here

>> No.11368721

>>11367747
People are starting to talk about decentralized Oracles and their importance for the smartcontract economy to flourish.

>> No.11368758

>>11368327
How many link you got now?

>> No.11368781

>>11367747
Wrong timestamp. Where are oracles mentioned

>> No.11368805
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11368805

>>11368398

I didn't even think of this.

>> No.11368972

>>11368398
how much link is enough?

>> No.11369009

>>11368972
250k to actually make it

>> No.11369067

>>11368972
Do not have a clue, but once they are ready and Vitalik and a few others openly endorse it the price of Link is going to explode. IMO.

>> No.11369079
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11369079

>> No.11369088

>>11367955
Checked

>> No.11369266

>>11367747

Chainlink is not a finished product. They have NDA's with some of the most powerful companies & institutions on this planet.

Vitalik knows LINK is a gamechanger, he's touching his face because he knows what LINK is and what it's going to do, however his hands are tied and he is not allowed to endorse it.

>> No.11369305

>>11369266
this is the most likely scenario

>> No.11369342

>>11368059
Only Ron and Sergey look like people who know what they are doing. Jack looks like a talented Chad who does just enough to get by, not really going the extra mile.

Doug looks like somebody who works really hard but isn't that smart. Thomas looks like someone who works extremely hard and is self conscious about his lack of intelligence and acts out by being verbose and using jargon with no technical people.

Adán looks like somebody who was in the right place at the right time with charisma that only one boss liked and nobody else did or had rich parents,

>> No.11369391

>>11369266
Nope. The implications of what Chainlink is trying to do means no more idealistic dapp economy taking over the world. It’s openig the floodgates to Mr. Goldstein and all his traditional financial packages to profit off the new internet of value. No longer will crypto belong to the austistic techie nerds, it’s going to be suits and sophisticated financiers from here on out. Vitalik gets squeezed out in that timeline, there isn’t a place for autists like him in the New World

>> No.11369418

>>11369342
I like Sergey, but he looks like an archetypal incompetent, naive mommas boy

>> No.11369452

>>11368059
AHAHAHAHAHA THE ORACLIZE BASEDBOY CANT EVEN GROW A FULL BEARD. LOW TEST! COMPARE IT TO SERGEY'S

>> No.11369481
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11369481

>>11369418
It's the cheek fat. He needs to get a better picture for official events.

>> No.11369482

>>11369418
Tomas in contrasts look like a mommas boy who got knocked a few times in the real world, therefore is a bit more alert and outwardly perceptive.

>> No.11369527
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11369527

>>11369481
The primary-school autism gear is just too much. Like he never outgrew the clothing his mother bought him when he was very young.

>> No.11369575

>>11367955
imagine being this fucking retarded lmao the delusion in this board quickly escalated from funny to actually scary. if you think THE BIGGEST PLATFORM FOR SMART CONTRACTS will be outperformed by a fucking JSON PARSER SHITCOIN you are absolutely DELUDED

>> No.11369606
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11369606

>that's ooooook...

>> No.11369643

bump. "1/3 or even 1/2 of projects out there will need an oracle type service" fucking making me more bullish

>> No.11369649

>>11369575
ethereum will basically be a database of the chainlink network. so yeah, it will be worth more than eth.

>> No.11369672

>>11369527
why are you stupid niggers still crying about his clothes? this isn't /fa/. shut the fuck up.

>> No.11369686

>>11369527
Very intellectual looking wow. Not like a fat autist at all

>> No.11369786

>>11369342
you seem like an autist but that characterization also seems dead on

>> No.11369814

>>11369527
Wait, what's that by Sergey's leg?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

>> No.11369858

>>11367747
What the actual FUCK. Why is Skelly such a fucking tsundere.
YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHY WONT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE TOYOTA OF ORACLE PROJECTS

>> No.11370032

>>11367747
First they ignore you...

>> No.11370368

>>11369391
Unfortunately this, but is anyone really surprised?

>> No.11370418

>>11368327
How long have you been on the oatmeal diet?

>> No.11370455

>>11369575
>I don't understand what an oracle is
>it must be a shitcoin

>> No.11370462

>>11367754
Explain for brainlet pls sir thank you sir

>> No.11370571
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11370571

>>11368972
some anons on here said that you'd need at least 10k. I only have 1200 or so because besides having a lot in btc I put my money on coss, rpx and req. God damn was I wrong but I'm still bagholding.

>> No.11370701

>>11368000
I think he's pissed because ethereum is an intellectual project for him, and he wants forever to come up with a perfect scaling solution. Money Belly gonna force his hand into making a desicion or getting usurped by someone who does

>> No.11371128

>>11368398
This makes sense. Vitalik also tweeted the decentralized oracles were not worth 32mil at ICO, Im guessing in an effort to suppress the future price. His tweet was later deleted.

>> No.11371197

explain how an oracle that relies on a centralized api can ever possibly be decentralized or have any more security than if you trusted the api itself and nothing else?

protip: you can't.

>> No.11371223

>>11371197
sold 100k

>> No.11371267

>>11371197
You use more than one api for high value contracts. Read the fucking whitepaper

>> No.11371317

>>11371267
he hates Sergey

>> No.11371335

>>11371197
Trust the API all you want, that data isn't getting on any blockchain without oracles, so no smart contracts.
Oracles were never about making data sources decentralized.

>> No.11371342

>>11369786
It is my gift and my curse.

>> No.11371372

>>11371267
So you pull two different URLs and make sure they're the same. So now you have to trust that both won't collude, or provide erroneous information, OK.

How does a network you now have to trust AS WELL, help when once again, cert/signed messages from both APIs will give you less people to trust than when you add chainlink into the equation?

>> No.11371399

>>11371335
And with signed data from APIs you don't need a middleman network or token like chainlink, the contract can verify the data itself, and anybody can send data to the contract directly with no risks other than the parties you already have to trust, the API providers.

>> No.11371425

>>11371399
Sign the data all you want, it's not getting on any blockchain without oracles, so no smart contracts.
Oracles were never about verifying whether data is actually coming from the right source.

>> No.11371440

>>11371372
Steem Blockchain has the 10 or 20 block producers come to the table with like certain figures like price of steem at the moment, and then the average is used in algorithms in the blockchain itself. They all pull their own data from whatever exchange or API they like. Chainlink/Oracles are a scam, just saying how dan the man does it.

>> No.11371457

Chainlink raises a concrete set of consequences for Ethereum that had not existed beforehand.
Prior to Chainlink, Eth's development and transaction throughput (ie scalability) existed in such an experimental space that there wasn't a direct commercial impetus to meet goals, so much as an intellectual impetus to break new ground.
But Chainlink changes that. A functioning Chainlink main net exerts an instant pressure on decentralised platforms to meet the volume and transactional throughput requirements that a fully operational oracle network needs. This is especially the case in the early iterations of Chainlink on the EVM in which all of the commit/reveal functions will be performed on chain.
Chainlink's main net launch (assuming it works to scale) basically raises the immediate question as to which, if any, of the decentralised platforms are capable of carrying the sort of workload that the Chainlink network intends to carry.
If Ethereum fails to meet this challenge in a timely manner this is a point in time where Hyperledger could pull the rug out from under Ethereum and become the de facto smart contract platform, simply because it's the only thing that can actually do it.
Chainlink's launch represents a pivotal moment in Ethereum's life, while not being directly under Ethereum's control.

I imagine that's why Vitalik is shitting himself.

>> No.11371466

>>11371197
your mistake is not understanding what an oracle is

>> No.11371510

>>11367747
The reason Vitalik hates Link is because it was supposed to just be another layer for ETH. No ICO or anything and no token. Decentralized oracles were supposed to be part of ETH not some project which ETH does not benefit from directly.

He had a shitfit about Raiden too because they held an ICO when he thought it should have just been free.

>> No.11371576

>>11371510
No. Vitalik literally said third parties should be coming up with oracles for ETH.

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/22/ethereum-and-oracles/
>the most exciting end-user-centric innovation is likely what will be built on top [of Ethereum]
>base-level protocols [like Ethereum] are your servant, not your master

>> No.11371597
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11371597

>>11371457

>> No.11371616
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11371616

Vitalik's time is up.

>> No.11371669

>>11368719
Got a link for that?

>> No.11372057

>>11368398
We need to find out if CL is in the trusted execution environment working group in the EEA. Whoever is in that group is setting up some massive standards for the entire space.

>> No.11372156

Vitalik acts this way because hes under NDA and not allowed to talk about link or shill it.

The autism in him makes him super awkward about it.

>> No.11372176

Stop the hate for vitalik he’s just doing what is ethically right and not trying to sway anyone’s opinion because some take his opinion like it’s written in stone when he’s just a human being like all of us who like brainstorming ideas around.

>> No.11372187

>>11371457
What's zilliqa

>> No.11372238

>>11371399
Ddos the centralized delivery mechanism, contract doesn't receive data, there is no data to verify. Nice solution

>> No.11372270

>>11372176
>imagine, if you will, if a single token on the Ethereum network caused so much traffic that it required its own shard. Take OMG as an example.

Yeah, Vitalik would never just shill a shitcoin into the top 20, would he?

>> No.11372302

>>11371510
>He had a shitfit about Raiden too because they held an ICO when he thought it should have just been free.
Raiden is a great project but it was greedy with its ico.

>> No.11372317

I’m a newfag, how do I buy LINK?

>> No.11372331

>>11371425
And you can do that without a middleman/funding token, by simply posting that signed data straight onto the blockchain. It would take you 10 lines of code and anybody in the world could do it, it could even be built in as part of geth or parity, since it would be as simple as connecting to a server, grabbing data in a standardized format, and posting it to a contract in a standardized way.

There is no need for a token, and certainly no need for a whole network that is completely obsoleted by a single signature. How many other projects are obsoleted in such a simple and immediate way?

>> No.11372362

>>11369391
>No longer will crypto belong to the austistic techie nerds, it’s going to be suits and sophisticated financiers from here on out.

What part of "most powerful companies & institutions on this planet" did you not understand?

>> No.11372370

>>11372156
kek that's actually one of the best explanations I've heard as to why he's a dick to chainlink.
>I won't let them know I know this project is going to get big, so I'll act as if I hate this project
>muh toyota of crypto
>*tfw can't gain weight as based sergey and they call me skelly in /biz*
>*that 9 year old is cute, it's not as bad as doing heroin if you think about it*

>> No.11372377
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11372377

>>11372331
>obsoleted

>> No.11372395

>>11372317
Cryptopia

>> No.11372399

>>11371440
Yeah, there are plenty of ways to do it. My point is that given that you must trust the API itself to give correct or correlateable data, there are significantly better ways of bringing that into the blockchain, especially if it involves using the black box which is intel.

>>11371466
A prediction market is a true oracle, but we haven't come close to solving those properly. A centralized API data feed service built into a decentralized network like Chainlink only solves half the problem, and the same half that we already have solved before.

>>11372238
>centralized delivery mechanism
There is no central point of failure outside the APIs that chainlink already is completely dependant on. Anybody in the world can pull and submit data, and the API itself is the verification that the data has not been tampered with.

If blockchain oracles are as important as you chainlink bagholders say, then the natural evolution would be to a system like this anyway, and away from something unnecessarily complicated like chainlink.

>> No.11372424

>>11372317
buy bitcoin or eth on coinbase then send it to your binance wallet where you buy Link. Celebrate by eating a big mac or two

>> No.11372429
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11372429

>>11372399
>>11372331
>>11371399
>>11371372
>>11371197

>> No.11372433

>>11372399
Checked but
>There is no central point of failure
Who is responsible for signing the eth transaction with the data from the api request?

>> No.11372434

>>11372424
Thanks fren

>> No.11372437

>>11372331
>And you can do that without a middleman/funding token, by simply posting...

I stopped reading there as I think I can actually feel normal cells in my body starting to turn into cancer cells.

>> No.11372487

>>11372433
Anybody, because the validation comes directly from the API itself. Anybody can post that data to the blockchain, and the contract itself can verify the signature using the standard ecrecover tools the EVM has.

>>11372429
>>11372437
Maybe try to understand what you bought instead of wasting your life in chainlink support-group threads for an entire year.

>> No.11372549

>>11368059
Lol bertani is going to get absolutely destroyed. RIP

>> No.11372757

>>11372487
So 'anybody' signs a transaction with the requested information, the evm makes a call to check the validity of the information into upcomong block b0, 'anybody' has to put in the results of that call into another transaction, evm puts that into upcoming block b1, once confirmed an arbitrary number of times, the evm proceeds with the next step of the contract (assuming data is verified correctly) on block b2. I dig the loops that can be created here, nice method guy.

>> No.11372763

>>11372487
I get what you're saying but you can't completely eliminate human error, which would be the common cause of the point you are trying to raise. Decentralized oracles resolve a security / data integrity problem and protect the information going between the source and the contract, which you already know. This then puts the onus back on the supplier of the data to put in more failsafes / api sources which could in turn also reach a consensus (heck, they could use another layer of oracles for that) before outputting the result to the external decentralized oracle network of choice, which they would never have to worry about being compromised. If you don't think this is a big deal, I think you are underestimating the value of the layer of security this brings to the table and how it would encourage big business to start using blockchains. I hope what I am saying makes sense.

>> No.11372779

>>11372434
kek. got one more boys

>> No.11372813

>>11368398
you're all fucking retarded. VB is a supremely autistic commie who doesn't give a single shit about making money. Do you really think he would be suppressing the price and collaborating with Sergey to make a few more shekels? Absolute smoothbrain tier thinking.

>> No.11372838

>>11372757
It can be made simpler if the caller includes the oracle data in the call itself, at the same time. Verification is the same but now there is only one call to the contract, which could also cache that oracle value for a predetermined time depending on how sensitive the currentness of it is, if at all.

Its the kind of thing that like Bitcoin wallets address verification for services like BitPay, can be built right into the wallet itself, where before making the contract call it simply attempts to pull data it knows the contract wants in that call, via ABI-like metadata or something else.

>> No.11372909

>>11372763
I dont see where the human error comes into it? Just like you can request multiple sources via Chainlink, you can force validation of multiple sources via this method just the same.

The risk of bad data from the API is the same in both cases, and can be averted in the same way in both cases. Chainlink can definitely do more fancy stuff with the data but if you don't mind burning extra gas you can do the same in the EVM, and with proper scaling the gas cost becomes less important.

I'm not sure about the second part of your post though, the supplier is always where the onus lies, because either the data is valid or it is not. You wouldn't need a second layer for reconciling differences in different data sources, although a second layer would simplify things, it takes things out of consensus unless you do that in the contract itself.

>> No.11372924

>>11372838
Hey Vitalik, just go with the flow. I know that chainlink will just help the old legacy system. But you gotta roll with it.

>> No.11372929

>>11372763
I think people underestimate the accuracy and reliability of APIs for business. Its not just one endpoint on a server at let say Bloomberg (for example), have a look at how the data from these sources is used and relied upon. Traders are literally sitting in front of these APIs presented on bloomberg terminals trading on markets all day long world wide.

Its not as easy as lets hack that Bloomberg (for example) API. Their is redundancy, security, intruder detection and authentication where required, API keys etc. They are made to return correct data, people already rely on them for correct data. Oracles will allow that correct data to go into smart contracts

>> No.11372962

>>11372929
APIs have nothing to do with the oracle problem though. There's just no way to verify if the data is correct, just that it hasn't been tampered, which on itself it'd be a huge accomplishment for Chainlink.

>> No.11372973

>>11372813
Not just about making money, it is about the success of his project. This has to happen or Link does not succeed, if Link fails so does Eth. These two and others have been working together for a long time, and they are getting close to bringing it all together.

>> No.11373045

https://legal-tech-blog.de/the-problem-of-blockchain-oracles-interview-with-alexander-egberts

Ctrl+f chainlink

>> No.11373066

>>11372924
I wish I had some of that 400k ether.

>>11372929
Right, when you need to request data from something like Swift, there's only one place you're going to trust getting it from, Swift itself. A contract that codify those requirements and ensure validation of the data integrity is done on-chain, meaning there's a hard log in the blockchain itself instead of a secondary network pumping data into the blockchain that itself must be trusted based on the security profile of the secondary network itself, not the blockchain where the smart contract is itself executed.

>>11372962
I know, which is why chainlink itself doesn't solve the oracle problem. This just cuts out the trust you have to put in the chainlink network itself, and I personally think is a much better solution than what they're trying to do.

>> No.11373111

>>11373066
I don't doubt you're not Vitalik now.

Chainlink could solve the oracle problem. But that doesn't mean that all data inputted into the blockchain will be true.

Do you even know what the oracle problem is?

>> No.11373126

>>11372924
That might actually be him lol. I've never seen chainlink taken apart like that.
>>11372909
Why don't you call them out in public?

>> No.11373151

>>11373126
That's not him. Vitalik would know what the oracle problem is, unless he's trying to use mental gymnastics to fud.

>> No.11373193

>>11373151
That anon clearly understands the issue, I think you're misreading

>> No.11373216

>>11373111
I still don't see how chainlink solves oracles in a way yet unsolved by other means.

The key reason the oracle problem has yet to be solved is that people will vote or validate a solution that they believe more people will validate or vote, not the one that is necessarily the "truth".

This is unless of course you are using the incorrect definition of the "oracle problem" regarding smart contracts and not the actual problem of pulling truth out of decentralized systems.

>> No.11373229

>>11373193
>I know, which is why chainlink itself doesn't solve the oracle problem. This just cuts out the trust you have to put in the chainlink network itself, and I personally think is a much better solution than what they're trying to do.

He's outright saying that chainlink won't solve the oracle problem. He can't even know, since the system that the network will use to ensure that data hasn't been tampered hasn't been real life tested yet.

You don't even know what we're talking about, so if you can't give a technical point of view, I wouldn't suggest you keep cheerleading, but do as you wish.

>> No.11373274

>>11373229
The oracle problem is not "detect tampering", it's pulling truth out of a decentralized system.

If the oracle problem is "detect tampering" then as I've explained, that only goes as far as you're willing to take it via the APIs you pull data from, or even the users that submit answers, like in Augur.

>> No.11373280

>>11373193
I think that anon understands the oracle problem, sure, but is the conversation just about ethereum? Like sure you might be able to build it into ethereum, but then every blockchain needs to do the same?

Blockchain agnostic middle-ware. While Vitalik is shilling for layer 2 scaling solutions, why would you want to bring another layer into ethereum? Isn't an abstracted secure trusted layer for oracles the best strategic design?

Chainlink will do secure (off-chain) compute cheaper that on-chain compute too. There is lots of value add in chainlink that is more than catch and pass of API data

>> No.11373292

>>11373216
We're yet to see the code for the reputation systems.

The only fud that gets to me is that if the economic side of reputation is too cheap to manipulate, then the system would be flawed. As much as I hate the "Link being less than $1,000 defeats it's purpose", I could see a real need for it.

Hopefully randomizing nodes from where the data will be retrieved, along with reputation providers will be enough, however, how many node operators will be providing data for niché APIs? Wouldn't they be to easy to manipulate??

Everything's still up in the air, but I see your point. We have to wait.

>> No.11373325

>>11368143
>>11368262
>>11368244
>>11368273
chainlink will support off chain computation which makes ethereum even less necessary. ethereum will only be needed to save states.

>> No.11373354

>>11373274
>The oracle problem is not "detect tampering", it's pulling truth out of a decentralized system.

The oracle problem is pulling and inputting the SAME data in/out of systems. Doesn't matter if the data is 100% wrong.

If blockchain says that 2+2=5, an oracle duty is to transport this answer (5) to another system. An oracle has no way of knowing if the answer is right or wrong.

As long as the exact same data is taken out and put into another system, the oracle problem's been solved.

>> No.11373370

>>11373280
I dont believe in "connector" blockchains from an economic standpoint, things like Polkadot, Ark, I think are doomed to fail long term as network effects take over. It's especially apparent for security, where the security of chainlink itself is dictated by it's utility token and speculative forces, not the network by which the actual value is being held and transferred under control of the smart contract.

>>11373292
My point is if these API-based "oracles" become important, it won't be long before you start to see oracles as I've explained them become commonplace, because it provides the chain of trust necessary where something probabilistic like chainlink can't.

It's especially important as you identified in niche APIs or private APIs. With the user doing the fetching but the validation able to be validated by everybody, you can have privacy-preserving APIs such as Swift able to operate on mainnets, while everybody is able to access Swift's API public key, and see the the data itself was actually from their API, even if you don't have access to anything more than a True or False result on-chain.

>> No.11373383

>>11371372
>>11371399
>>11372331

this is peak brainlet. i dont think you thought through the implications of such a retarded idea.

>> No.11373391

>>11373280
Ethereum has no features and never will. That's one of their principles.

>Chainlink will do secure (off-chain) compute cheaper that on-chain compute too. There is lots of value add in chainlink that is more than catch and pass of API data.
That's the thing, Vitalik wants to decentralize all data/databases, but it'd be extremely costly and inefficient to do so.

If you support chainlink, you're supporting just polishing a turd (legacy systems) and sprinkling gold over it. However that's the best way we could advance adoption right now.

Vitalik is a dreamer, and while I see his point and would love if that happened, it'll never happen. He's probably a communist too (not even joking).

>> No.11373392 [DELETED] 
File: 32 KB, 1549x338, VitalikTheWise.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11373392

>>11371457
Pic related for the meme version of this.

>> No.11373394
File: 6 KB, 226x250, 103109.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11373394

>>11372487
>Maybe try to understand what you bought

>>11373216
>I still don't see how chainlink solves oracles

>> No.11373395

>>11373325
Ethereum will take care of the settlements, and chainlink of the inputs.

>> No.11373396

>>11367747
The simple truth is that vitalik knows chainlink's 'solution' doesn't work as nodes are sybillable.
The closest actual solution is enigma

>> No.11373399

>>11373354
Its not unreasonable to foresee a time when the chainlink network will include AI functionality to further reduce the probability of incorrect data. Their defense in depth approach will involve continually improving the system with the addition of various technologies.

>> No.11373413

>>11373399
Good point. The team seems very dedicated and focused on continually adding features.

>> No.11373415

>>11373399
AI is a meme until singularity happens, and at that time we could all be dead in mere seconds.

>> No.11373417

>>11373394
Feel free to explain how you think chainlink solves oracles.

>>11373396
They're only sybillable without their funding token. Its the same logic that is supposed to make proof of stake work.

>> No.11373427

>>11372909

every api provider would need a geth node and funding to put the data onto the chain. its too goofy i think.

>> No.11373437

>>11373415
I'm not referring to human conscious levels of AI, rather the AI that exists in something like a voice assistant on a phone, which already exists. Or IBM Watson meme or not

>> No.11373442

>>11373370
>where the security of chainlink itself is dictated by it's utility token and speculative forces

Now. At this point in time before we've seen their aggregation/consensus/reputation code. The utility token is the incentive for nodes to play nice, but as we know, the amount of link required to run a node is zero. So the utility token is one part of the security, with respect to collateral, but its only one part.

Like Sergey said the other day, defense in depth security

>> No.11373451

>>11373417
>Feel free to explain how you think chainlink solves oracles.
Fell free to explain how it doesn't.

You can't, reputation system hasn't been real life tested. Neither you can disprove, nor I can prove if it does solve the oracle problem.

>> No.11373461

>>11373437
AI is a meme. Pattern spamming is a thing, game theory is harder to fool.

>> No.11373505

>>11373427
No, that's the clients business. The API obviously must build in support for the data protocol though, which is a big ask, but not for someone that expects chainlink to become a huge deal.

>>11373442
They effectively have to secure it the same way blockchains do, that means proof of work, proof of stake, or some other proven secure consensus method, of which there are few.

>>11373451
There's a whole thread of it, feel free to explain where you disagree.

>> No.11373517
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11373517

>>11371457
delet

>> No.11373541
File: 223 KB, 1125x742, 765F790F-857F-41AF-A8DD-3F2298305E06.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11373541

>>11369009
Thank god.

>> No.11373548
File: 74 KB, 689x795, 1538966533344.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11373548

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1UULiaEMJcA

>> No.11373547

>>11373417
>They're only sybillable without their funding token
It doesn't solve anything, it only creates a cost for nodes. Link isn't even required to set up a node.
>Its the same logic that is supposed to make proof of stake work.
No, because in casper there are penalties for signing contradictory statements. There's no parallel in link.
>>11371399
>And with signed data from APIs you don't need a middleman network or token like chainlink, the contract can verify the data itself
This. Any oracle solution is a temporary one.

>> No.11373557

>>11373505
>No, that's the clients business.
explain? how will api providers know when a contract needs its data? maybe not geth but the api provider needs a way to look at the network unless youre suggesting data just be dumped onto the chain, needed or not.

>> No.11373564

>>11373505
Please start, there's no timeline in the whole multiverse where you can prove that something that doesn't exist yet doesn't work.

>> No.11373567
File: 807 KB, 3600x2400, chainlink.'''master'''race.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11373567

I said it before and I will say it again:
it's obvious that these threads get spammed by some pol incel discord, full of virgins getting mad at blacked.com
Chainlink will absolutely fail and I fill fucking LAUGH when you guys kys BAHAHAHAH screencap this you stupid virgin, maybe your mom will seek out to contact me so I will give her a new child when you're rotting in the ground

>> No.11373572

>>11372331
>simply posting that signed data straight onto the blockchain
No.

You have no idea what a blockchain is, let alone oracles.

>> No.11373589

>>11373547
I know it's not required, I dont think it's a great idea, I just think that sybil attacks are something easily prevented if it is required. They could easily take your staked link and burn it for being on the wrong side of consensus. Again, I don't think they have that side of it worked out, but its not that dire.

>>11373557
It would be a protocol to support for the API itself.

>> No.11373603

>>11373564
I can't prove it doesn't work, but I can say that it's far from solving the oracle "problem" from what they have today, which is why they're going for the low hanging fruit first.

>>11373572
It seems you're the one that's confused. How do you think the rest of the data in your contract call gets onto the blockchain?

>> No.11373609

>>11373589
>They could easily take your staked link and burn it for being on the wrong side of consensus.
The consensus is the sybillable part. You only act dishonest when you have the required majority for one request, burning stake of honest nodes.
It's unsolvable. It sort-of works in augur because consensus is global, but requests in link sample small number of nodes.

>> No.11373621

>>11373505
Agreed. Probably lucky they have some of the best minds in cryptography consulting with them.

I don't disagree with what you are saying about the requirement for robust security, but you do know they are aware of that too right? Like this isn't a revelation what you are saying

>> No.11373623

>>11373567
I'd fuck the twink second to the right so goddamned hard.

>> No.11373627

>>11373603
>How do you think the rest of the data in your contract call gets onto the blockchain?
This makes zero sense.

I posted a link to a Vitalik blogpost about oracles above itt. Find it and read it.
Vitalik also clearly explains why it's "oracles" and not "oracle", meaning decentralization is key.
And you can't have decentralization without compensation, which explains the token.

Good luck out there, kid.

>> No.11373633

>>11373623
>rightsoy outs himself as homosexual instantly
So much for masterrace, huh
Just kys Chainlinker

>> No.11373644

>>11373548
I was hoping for the pajeet telling the link marines to hold and well be in the money, havent heard that in months

>> No.11373663

>>11373609
Right, this is why there are problems with chainlinks approach when the data itself has canonical sources you need to trust and fetch from anyway.

>>11373621
I do know, I just can't think of a decentralized way they are able to secure their system from attacks that doesn't fall under the same normal users dont want to destroy value model.

>> No.11373673

>>11373627
This is the same reason why Nano and IOTA will never work.

>> No.11373674

>>11373627
Yes, decentralization is key, but we're discussing chainlink's API fetching oracles, if you aren't able to follow along.

>Good luck out there, kid.
I'm not the one posting in this thread hoping to get rich though.

>> No.11373690

>>11373673
We don't really know how well DAGs can work, they've never been tested at any scale or for any real length of time. IOTA has had nothing but issues, and Nano has had it's fair share too. Economically neither of those implementations matter in the long run though.

>> No.11373696

>>11373674
>we're discussing chainlink's API fetching oracles
Are you still not clear that oracles were never about decentralizing the data source?

Lmao @ ur life kid.
*tips cowboy hat*

>> No.11373711

>>11373696
didn't sergey specifically mention this in his most recent talk?

>> No.11373744

>>11373711
What, decentralizing data sources?

That could very well be beneficial and maybe even required in some cases, but it has nothing to do with how (decentralized) oracles work.
Using multiple data sources simply takes what oracles do, and multiplies it.
Tons of applications will always simply rely on a single data source, connected to the blockchain by decentralized oracles.

>> No.11373747

>>11373696
They are. You might have gotten caught up with all the chainlink hype, but prediction markets and market based oracles are the oracle problem that we are trying to solve, not simply making a few HTTP requests and confirming everybody got the same thing.

As has been explained, that can be done without needing to trust any oracles or oracle layers.

>> No.11373756

>>11373744
>Tons of applications will always simply rely on a single data source, connected to the blockchain by decentralized oracles.

And as has been explained, that use case does not require a network like chainlink.

>> No.11373764

>>11373747
>that can be done without needing to trust any oracles or oracle layers.
Oh my god, read Vitalik's fucking blogpost you absolute pleb.

>>11373756
>And as has been explained, that use case does not require a network like chainlink.
But it does.
You just don't realize it because you have no clue what you're talking about.

>> No.11373779

>>11373756
>that use case does not require a network like chainlink.
Just to add, before signed data becomes commonplace it's going to be emulated by intel sgx for https data. Way safer than link's 'solution' - cheaper (free) and faster (one pc) also.

>> No.11373786

>>11373690
True, but the odds are strongly stacked against them.

>> No.11373788

>>11373764
Feel free to provide any valid argument instead of having a tantrum. The blog post does not refute anything in this thread, it simply provides another way of doing it without having a signed API.

>> No.11373802

>>11373788
>Feel free to provide any valid argument
That would require me explaining the very basics of oracles and blockchains.
I'm good.

>signed API.
Fucking lol my dude.

>> No.11373826

>>11373802
If you somehow think that signed data coming from an API isn't going to work, you'll be very surprised when you learn how blockchains rely on the exact same cryptography.

>> No.11373837

>>11373663
If we are talking about attack from network participants. I'd say its combination of all the aspects. So the token, sure, as incentive for return of timely and "correct" data, reputation at node selection for a contract, as well as off chain node operator reputation that might add value, consensus mechanics they land on into aggregation, as well as offering a secure layer to the aggregation when they have sgx integration.

Sergey mentioned zero knowledge proofs in his talk the other day too.

Back to the defense in depth argument, i guess.

The feel i get is that consensus and reputation is being developed with consultants as modules to be integrated more so than core code. Maybe purpose built consensus adapters for different use cases

>> No.11373884

>>11373826
>signing data puts it on the blockchain
no

>> No.11373916

>>11373884
>>11373826
you guys are unknowingly arguing different points...
you need some consensus hehe

>> No.11373922

>>11373826
You seem caught up on this point but your overlooking the other aspects of Chainlink including consensus/aggregation, timing orchestration, and off-chain computation with or without TEEs. Can all these things be recoded and implemented in the smart contract itself? Sure but that's a burden and on-chain expense not every developer wants to go through.

>> No.11373944

>>11373922
>that's a burden and on-chain expense not every developer wants to go through.
Plus it's not decentralized, plus it's harder to obfuscate since it's on-chain.

All of which he would've known if he read the blogpost.

>> No.11373962

sergey is a fucking scammer who takes investment money and runs. Look at his job history. Chainlink will not succeed

>CoFounder & CEO
>SmartContract
>September 2014 – Present 4 years 2 months

>CoFounder & CEO
>Secure Asset Exchange
>May 2014 – January 2016 1 year 9 months

>Cofounder & CEO
>CryptaMail
>May 2014 – July 2014 3 months

>CoFounder & CEO
>ExistLocal Inc.
>March 2009 – February 2011 2 years

It is also apparent by looking at his busiiness address. Its a fedex shipping center hes trying to pass off as an office.

50 California Street, Suite 1500
>San Francisco, CA, 94111

its a fedex drop scam. shared by
>https://www.webhelper.com/contact.html
>http://www.proffiliates.com/index.html
>https://india.williamoneil.com/corporate/contacts.aspx
>http://www.sasadvisors.com/contact

>> No.11374018

>>11373944
In a world where we are trying to abstract everything down to its smallest component - see compute hypervisors down to FaaS - , why would we try and bring oracles back into specific blockchains, do we want ethereum to be a monolith?

Blockchain agnostic with custom adapters.... kinda like the event driven architecture we see in technologies like kafka and graph. Modular and best fit for purpose, not 'lets compile it all into one place'

>> No.11374035

>>11372813
>autistic commie who doesn't give a single shit about making money
lmao yeah right like every champagne socialist before him.

>> No.11374041

>>11374018
You're right, it's also not blockchain agnostic.

>> No.11374072

>>11371457
guys is this foreal?

>> No.11374096

>>11374041
>not blockchain agnostic
How so?

>> No.11374147

>>11374096
I think he means the approach YQ87hN9z is arguing for

>> No.11374152

>>11374072
I'd say that and also ethereum gets reduced to a database for most smart contracts.

Why write a smart contract for ethereun when you can write it for a chainlink node and have it write the result to any blockchain?

The entire point of ethereum is smart contracts and here comes chainlink to do smart contracts off chain and write the result to any dumb data storage chain.

Chainlink simultaneously 1. defeats the biggest selling point of ethereum and 2. risks exposing it as not being close enough to scaling sufficiently to meet today's needs.

Simultaneously obviates what makes eth great and then shines a spotlight on its team's biggest challenge.

>> No.11374197

>>11374147
Ahh yep got it. Agreed

>> No.11374287

>>11374152
Your reasoning proves why chainlink doesn't work - if it was possible to get safe execution without a consensus, it would be done years ago, before bitcoin even existed. An argument by contradiction.
It's not possible to replace global consensus with 'reputation' - which is why they have zero idea how to implement it.

>> No.11374328

>>11374152
you don't seem to understand how chainlink, ethereum or blockchains even work

>> No.11374330

>>11373747
The chainlink network only verifies the data sent by A to B came 100% trustlessly from A, not that the information A sent to B is an absolute truth. This puts the onus 100% on the data provider (A) to provide the correct data or no one will buy data from them anymore. I think you might be a retarded NPC.

>> No.11374575

>>11374287
>he doesn't know about aggregation

>> No.11374797
File: 663 KB, 1125x1109, 922FB82E-B457-4F9B-A7F9-F83D6B62E65D.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11374797

People are so passionate in their fudding. I’m happy they are though since they challenge my investment. I’m genuinely curious if a random solution will come out with no token that makes LINK have no purpose aka become useless. Surely there’s no way? Why are big corporations so blind to the potential of this network? Why is Google not awake to this disruptive tech? I simply don’t understand.

>> No.11375620

>>11374330
This but I'm going to simplify what you wrote, it's a bit confusing. I'll use an example so anyone else can follow along.

The Chainlink network is about putting off-chain data onto the blockchain so that when a smart contract triggers (using the information that was put onto the blockchain), it uses the same inputs that were entered. What does this mean? There is two states of the data. One. Data that is entered. Two. Data that is written to the blockchain. The third state I'll get to in a second. Transitioning between state 1 and state 2 is a vulnerability. Chainlink is insuring that the data we entered in state 1 is the same data that gets written to the blockchain in state 2. We call this tamperproof. This is what tamperproof means.

State 3 is data that's being called, or more accurately verifiable data. Lets say I want to know the temperature in New York. I call an API, it tells me 23 degrees. Well that's great. I got my tamperproof data. The thing is how do we know its the right data? Well we call multiple API's from different nodes. Maybe we call the weather network, the temperature sensor from the empire state building, maybe a sensor from another building. we get 3 different readings. They all read 23. Thus we can say the data is trustless. State 3 combines all API calls and aggregates them either by discarding the outliers or averaging them out. More nodes = more secure.

What chainlink can't do. Detect that the data being entered is the correct data. We only have a means by comparison against other data. Did tom go to walmart? Well Tom's car(gps), phone(gps),credit card(scanned) all happened around the same time at walmart. So tom was probably at walmart. This is how private investigators work. This is how witnesses during a court case work. There is NO better solution.

The only solution to kill chainlink and this problem would be super intelligent AI. Which is another story. And extremely far in the future.

>> No.11375622

>>11369391
I never actually considered this but you may be right. Idealism vs. reality

>> No.11375655

>>11374797
Google will be the one buying the API calls. Don't you worry. This tech helps them. This also enables them to sell metadata. Right now google sells their metadata as "targeted ads". Soon Google will have even more power.

>> No.11375689

>>11374797
>>11375655

To give you an example, chainlink is constructing the biggest oil pipeline. Why should Google or any company NOT help build? Because, who wants to use a supposedly decentralized network when GOOGLE had a hand in building it. Google doesn't need to build an oil pipeline... it doesn't do anything for them especially when the pipeline is connecting directly to their front door. Remember this project is only 32m. Google is going to make a shit ton more using this pipeline.

>> No.11376250

>>11367747
you know.. like, umm, ummm, like, aaa, umm holy fuck

>> No.11376293

>>11371457
Golden post anon, I'm speechless.

>> No.11376322

>>11367747
Timestamp? There probably isn't one cause OP is a LARPER

>> No.11376437

>>11367747
30:00 >do you think that they'll be a general purpose peer to peer oracle thing that we can kinda come up with or is it use case specific?
>Vitalik turns head, hides face with hand
TOP KEK

>> No.11376607

>>11376437
> I, uhhh, bigmac... oh FUCK I wasn't meant to say that. I mean nah. Nah there isn't. Maybe mobius or something
> gets up and runs away spookily without saying another word

>> No.11376654

>>11373370
>where the security of chainlink itself is dictated by it's utility token and speculative forces
Wait, this is incorrect. Chainlink is hosted on ethereum, so their security is ethereums. The link token is just there to incentivise nodes.

>> No.11376676

>>11368327
damn I don't get it

>> No.11376755

how come oracles are the hot topic now . there is even a dedicated conferences and all. weird timig...

>> No.11376936

>>11373826
you're thinking about this all wrong

>> No.11377921
File: 2.89 MB, 280x280, 1524958995357.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
11377921

>>11368000
autism

>> No.11377974

>>11376654
Yes its incorrect.
But the chainlink network nodes still have independent security to ethereum. They interact with ethereum (and any blockchain) but nodes are not ethereum dApps

>> No.11377997

>>11376755
Everyone will tell you its nothing
(It's not nothing)

>> No.11378182

>>11373826
Oh jesus christ dude, this is where you stop and try again later. You're literate enough to make good concern trolling fud, but you showed your hand here.

>> No.11378388

>>11367955
>ERC20 Token
>Displacing ETH

>> No.11379173

There's someone here that feels the need to screenshot every post and post it to Twitter. Why?