/biz/ - Business & Finance

this coin is going nowhere with this ugly bold srhek, 90% of a coin is good look ceos

>more decentralized
its fun when the late adopter normies come up with all of this cope for ripple. "xrp the standard" and other cringeworthy memes. its like they don't know ripple has already mooned and already made the millionaires it's going to make.

>>11280041

he should wear a hat or soemthing

ripple is dogshit premined centralized scam the devs still own like 95% of the total supply

>>11280007
Anyone can make a fast "cryptocurrency" with a centralized platform, dear anon. The whole value proposition is censorship resistance. Ripple has none.

>>11280041
>>11280052
>>11280321
>>11280349
Weak fud. Unironically strong buy signal. Ripple $3 eoy stay poor

>>11280007
>More Decentralized than Bitcoin (BTC)
First of all, you don't need to state the ticker for bitcoin, we all know Bitcoin is BTC.
And XRP is very centralized, and second, the token is completely irrelevant and not even used at all.
The only reason it went up the last time was because people wanted to buy "cheap" things and have thousands of them.
Even dogecoin is better than XRP FFS

>>11280041
He’s not the CEO of XRP anymore than you are the CEO of bitcoin you brainlet

>>11280349
XRP has good censorship resistance and partition tolerance as well as being much more decentralised than BTC

Try doing some actual research instead of getting misinformation from people who profit from your ignorance

>>11280542
Old FUD

Have you not been keeping up? More decentralised than bitcoin by an order of magnitude. Banks are now using it.

Try harder next time

>>11280573

Anyone who hasn’t invested in ripple just doesn’t like money.

>>11280647
Xrp has some of the most brutal money hungry people on any crypto team. And this is a good thing

>Going 360 around and using crypto as a permissioned coin

>>11280321
And Jed is dumping all his bags

>>11280007
Yes OP he looks like someone who's word you can trust. I'm certain he doesn't look at the price at all. He's in it for the tech like many of us.

>>11280321
You act as though the entire crypto world isn't under the banker's control anyway. At least with Ripple we know who they are instead of a bunch of shady chink whales who control Bitcoin.

Won't lightening network shit on XRP?

>>11280007
XLM was forked from XRP originally, then they found how fucked up the XRP code was and had to scrap the blockchain code and build XLM from the ground up

XLM is superior in every way and XRP will eventually crash and burn.

What does Ripple have more than fast transactions? That is not enough to even think about buying imo, there have to be several usable and bleeding edge features if it's going to be anything in the future. What does Ripple have that other coins don't? Don't just compare to Bitcoin because it's already outdated and it's only big because it was the first.

>>11280007
I have just read that ANYONE can run a ripple validator (the equivalent of bitcoin nodes).

Holy shit. Maybe ripple is the future after all.

>>11280309
>M'shitcoin

>>11282716

Ripple is full of scams and lies. See related pic of Cuallix HQ which they have been hyping as using xRapid.

Everyone can be a validator KEK

> Your server is an untrusted validator. Others can see the validations your server issues, but they disregard them in the consensus process

Why fuck with a coin which scams you with that shit and where

> 95% of the supply is owned by 100 adresses and Ripple itself has 60% of the supply locked for itself in escrow

>>11280321
>pulling fake stats out of your ass to fud a literally perfect coin

>>11282598
stellar is trash, xrp is superior in every single aspect

>>11280542
>>11280321
>devs still own like 95% of the total supply
>the token is completely irrelevant and not even used at all.
Yikes
Maybe do some more research before posting.

>>11282716
Yeah and there is no method of ensuring that nodes stay honest. All you can do is pick and choose which nodes you want to trust.

>>11282780
Whether another server has your validator on their UNL or not is irrelevant. The network operates exactly the same for you either way. You have no right to force someone to listen your validator.

>>11283623
Every node independently verifies each transaction. Validators have to sign everything they do, so it is easily detectable if they are attempting to censor txs or violate consensus rules in any way. Then you simply remove them from your UNL and continue on. The consequences of a validator misbehaving are also very small. Worst case is validators collude to temporarily halt forward progress of the network. No double spending possible.

>>11283584
>Yikes
gb2reddit faggot

>>11280007
not sure if this is bait or OP is retarded

>>11280321

This.

Also Bitcoin Cash is also 1000x less expensive and 1000x faster than a BTC transaction, big fucking whoop.

XRP is a fucking scam and you should be ashamed if you bought into their horseshit lies.

>>11280007
hold on. What about bitcoin cash?

>>11283809
Fees are decided by the miners in bch. They may or may not be low forever. Settlement speed is also important. 0-conf isn't suitable for all transactions so you are stuck waiting for multiple 10 minute confirmations just like btc.

>>11283809
BCH doesn't scale better than bitcoin they are just letting the chain grow exponentially large until no one can afford to store it and it becomes (even more) centralized

XRP isn't a scam, it's the only real crypto with real adoption and real decentralization.

If you haven't figured that out yet you're not gonna make it anon.

>>11283809
even a centralized shitcoin like xrp has more chance to get anywhere than bcash because ripple depends on xrp for it's revenue. bcash is just yet another chinese altcoin with a small bunch of bagholders hyping it up for the benefit of the chinese whales while nobody else cares.

Real shitcoin.

Xrp is so fast it gets lost on the way to its destination. And banks dont even use it because its top fast and too cheap.
And with the centralized issue i would say ripple is centralised

>>11283584

Where can I buy drugs with XRP?

>>11280007

Stellar does everything 10x better than Ripple.

>>11285897
Definitely better at giving away their coins to africa

>>11280007
Should i buy BTC or BHC? Asking for a friend

>>11285897
Yes the CEO OF STELLAR HOLDS EVEN 10× more shitcoinlm than the ceo of ripple LMAo

>>11280007
Xlm is better
Sage

>>11285766
>Xrp is so fast it gets lost on the way to its destination.

>>11286476
>>11285897
>>11282598
>they keep forgetting

>>11280007
>XRP

>>11280309
>the chad embrace

>>11286940
He's right tho. The internet pipes aren't built to handle that kind of speed without getting leaky.

>interledger is used by hyperledger
>ripple will moon

>btc decentralization
bitcoin core dictates what bitcoin is. no competing node implementation so miners just mine bitcoin core. However bitcoin core is still dependent on miners
>xrp
ripple dictates and allows other to validate
no situation in which ripple doesn't control what ripple is

>>11287436
>ripple dictates and allows other to validate
What does this mean? Anyone can run a validator. You don't need Ripple's permission.

>>11287398
samefag
show us one single transaction where xrp were lost
>muh pipes get leaky
this is the dumbest thing i have read in a while

>>11287456
you have to validate the way ripple wants

>>11287459
There was an invisible /s fren

>>11287465
The code is open source. You can run whatever you want and validate however you want. The choices you make will determine whether you are able to interoperate with the rest of the network. No different than in other cryptos.

>>11287472
there is no proof of work, the validation is not a market process it will be centralized
that's their selling point to central banks, the type of money central banks want is not possible in a proof of work system

>>11287507
All 900+ nodes in XRP validate transactions the same way every full node & miner will validate the transactions in a bitcoin block before sending it on. The only thing you need validating nodes for is to put transactions in order to solve the double spend.

Validators don't get to arbitrarily decide to include or exclude transactions like miners, and they don't get to tell the rest of the network whether a transaction is valid or not.

>>11287507
>xrp
>centralized
good try

>>11280007
since when did 'The Undertaker' have his own crypto?

>>11287531
>Validators don't get to arbitrarily decide to include or exclude transactions like miners, and they don't get to tell the rest of the network whether a transaction is valid or not.

exactly xrp is like btc without the possibility of competing node implementations
xrp's rules (supply, valid addresses etc) will be entirely controlled by regulation as is the current system

bitcoin allows changes to those who are willing to invest the resources to make the change

>>11280007
isnt stellar cheaper to transfer by some orders of magnitude

>>11287562
its is because XRP still jews you like 20 XRP to just open a wallet and its gone forever

>>11287554
i.e if someone wanted to make bitcoin have an inflation rate 3% relative to the price of consumer goods there would need to be a hashwar and nakamoto consensus for that to happen. Which would never happen for the same reason you don't invest in a company selling something nobody wants

in xrps case it would be illegal for the financial institutions running nodes to not abide by the change. same way banks are completely constrained by the BIS today

>>11287554
Nothing stops anyone from creating a second implementation. Bitcoin has a few, but they are pretty much ignored in favor of Core. Even within the same implementation, anyone is free to propose an amendment to XRP.

How are the consensus rules going to be controlled? Ripple doesn't have a legal right to control the ledger and they can't force users to run code they don't want to run.

What Bitcoin really does is hold users hostage. If they are not able to incentivize millions of dollars of proof of work, their network will not be secure. Therefore the users are very limited in changes they can make. Without almost unanimous agreement, it will not be safe to alter the rules.

>>11287576
but I mean, just for transfers, good point though, I thought that would be less

damn i remember opening several account in 2013, 20 xrp was nothing

surely they have made account cheaper now

>>11287562
The minimum fee in XRP is 10 drops. That equates to .5 thousands of a penny. If Stellar is cheaper it's pretty much completely irrelevant.

>>11287576
Nope, it's just gone until the reserve is lowered. It used to be much higher (over 100 XRP even).

>>11287583
Who do you believe has the authority to force a change like that on the entire network? There are no regulations in place requiring banks to do anything with regard to an amendment on the XRP Ledger.

>>11287592
nothing stops you from creating a second implementation but it's success isn't dependent on it's utility (as it is in proof of work) it's dependent on the consensus of ripple nodes who are financial institutions who are regulated

ripple decentralises validation to enable a system that is always up but it does not decentralise its characteristics. That's its selling point that the control of its properties is centralized, which is what central banks want

>>11287631
financial regulators
https://www.bis.org/
https://twitter.com/ripple/status/888426807304704000?lang=en

>>11280007

>more decentralized

Well, maybe but isn't it basically like EOS where it might be decentralized with 21 nodes but they are fixes, no one can actually challenge their position? So it's "decentralized" but not...really.

But yeah, bitcoin has been centralized ever since ASICs came out(2013?). Chinks own the chain. Delusional bitcoin maximalists somehow don't want to accept this though because they want their bags pumped so bad.

>>11287661

Fixed not fixes*

>>11287607
0.00001 of a lumen for stellar so thats uh

1/100,000 of a lumen so at 25 c its 25/100,000 so 1/4000 1 cent (or penny)

>>11287562
some people just keeps forgetting

>>11287637
Eventually there may be many financial institutions who run nodes, but that's currently not the case. Whether that happens or not, FI's don't get to dictate to the rest of the network which rules are adopted. You're getting into some very conspiratorial stuff now.

What you're essentially objecting to is the decentralized governance of XRP. You want proof of work in place to limit the freedom of users to upgrade the protocol if they believe it is in their best interests.

>>11287700
well yes thats not uncommon. This is why i invest in nem, it actually had a careful distribution shceme

>>11287673
So they are the same at 0.00001 XRP/XLM, but the XLM fee is cheaper because it is priced lower.

>>11287711
I don't want anything, xrp is what everyone expected the future of money to be before the invention of proof of work. It's not conspiratorial to say ripple is marketing towards the existing financial establishment which uses inflation to increase the productivity of the economy at the expense of the individuals.
ripple isn't peer to peer cash it's electronic cash

proof of work is competition, competition breeds utility because the most profitable thing to do is make the best thing. I don't object to ripple or the financial establishment trying to hold onto the past of course they are trying to however capitalism isn't a social construct and the implementation of xrp will only educate people further on the real innovation that is proof of work. utility wins

>>11287779

>proof of work is competition, competition breeds utility because the most profitable thing to do is make the best thing.

But is that a good thing though? Competition lead to ASICs which lead to centralization of the chain in bitcoin's case.

>>11287779
if it isn't peer to peer then who are the middlemen?

>>11287779
The properties of cryptocurrencies give them utility. Not the fact that they burn a lot of energy.

Proof of work's purpose is to solve the double spend and distribute the currency, but it does a poor job of both. It requires the honest users to continuously outspend would-be attackers to the tune of billions of dollars every year. Without those billions being extracted from the ecosystem, the chain would be insecure. That's one of the worst security models imaginable.

>>11287809
asics are an example of how proof of work rewards innovation
decentralization means there are more than 3 competing miners
we can see jihan is poised to loose market share because he invested in the alt market instead of being a miner he is trying to make changes to bitcoin in november that do not have utility and will loose
>>11287814
regulators
>>11287824
the cost of energy to change the ledger against the utility of the currency is less profitable than to change the ledger for the utility of the currency
this is not guaranteed we need adoption and I think adoption will happen

>>11285883
Did you mean to write "What drugs do I need to be on to buy XRP"?

>>11287918
how are regulators the middlemen, they don't have a say in the network and much less can change the rules

>>11287957
ripples whole thing is that it can be regulated. I'm not trying to say its shit obviously everyone should buy some it's getting fucking recommended by the federal reserve in the faster payments program
that's its selling point, it can be regulated

>>11288021
>ripples whole thing is that it can be regulated.
how could it be regulated? how are they going to force people to run code that they don't want to?
how are they going to force you to trust their validators?.....

>>11288021
>it's getting fucking recommended by the federal reserve in the faster payments program
this is bullish af if anything, it could literally become the standard
and it's being recommended by the federal reserve in the faster payments program because it actually makes payments faster don't you think so

>>11288053
nodes have to choose between select nodes

https://ripple.com/build/xrp-ledger-consensus-process/#consensus
>During consensus, each node evaluates proposals from a specific set of peers, called chosen validators

regardless
brad garlinghouse > When we talk to regulators, we explain how what Ripple is doing is not circumventing their regulatory frameworks, and they get very comfortable very quickly like, “Oh! I get it. Ok, we get it. If it’s a better product at lower price, we’re happy about that.”
https://cointelegraph.com/news/ripple-ceo-talks-liquidity-and-regulation-ultimately-governments-arent-going-away
https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-does-ripple-want-more-government-regulation/

>>11288075
yeah, like I said I don't have a problem with xrp it's what the current system is but electronic. Gonna make money off it.
proof of work can free humanity from currency debasement however

>>11287918
Economic incentives can be helpful, but they don't guarantee any particular behavior.

>>11288021
Ripple the company is regulated. Their proprietary payment network "Ripplenet" is regulated. XRP is not in the same category. Ripple doesn't have a legal right to control it, and there are no administrative functions built in. It can only be regulated by the government to the same extent that Bitcoin can.

Here is Ripple's goal as stated by their CTO:

https://twitter.com/JoelKatz/status/1024356398119800832
https://twitter.com/JoelKatz/status/1036415208728588288

>>11288139
>When we talk to regulators, we explain how what Ripple is doing is not circumventing their regulatory frameworks
Ripple has very specifically advocated for regulation of exchanges. They are fighting to keep cryptocurrencies themselves completely open.

>>11288149
>>11288174

ripple arbitrates the system by setting >chosen validators
which all other nodes must choose between
all of the so called chosen validators are able to be regulated and will be

https://ripple.com/build/xrp-ledger-consensus-process/#consensus

>>11288206
>During consensus, each node evaluates proposals from a specific set of peers, called chosen validators 6. Chosen validators represent a subset of the network which, when taken collectively, is "trusted" not to collude in an attempt to defraud the node evaluating the proposals. This definition of "trust" does not require that each individual chosen validator is trusted. Rather, validators are chosen based on the expectation they will not collude in a coordinated effort to falsify data relayed to the network 7.

>>11288206
Ripple can't force anyone to use their recommended trusted list of validators. Each node has the authority to modify the list in any way they see fit.

>>11288239
why would they

>>11288139
>>11288218
>>11288206
>nodes have to choose between select nodes
no, nodes can choose between any other node in the network
institutions and banks and so on would need to control 80% of the network to change the consensus rules
>https://ripple.com/build/xrp-ledger-consensus-process/#consensus
>During consensus, each node evaluates proposals from a specific set of peers, called chosen validators
that is correct, the specific set of peers can be any other nodes in the network
it seems that you think that nodes are forced to choose between a specific set of validators but they can choose freely

>https://cointelegraph.com/news/ripple-ceo-talks-liquidity-and-regulation-ultimately-governments-arent-going-away
>https://www.investopedia.com/news/why-does-ripple-want-more-government-regulation/
it's alright if you are an ancap and just want the government to be gone but we don't all share your views and think that the governments are going away because of crypto

i don't see how holding xrp, and not financial institutions ious in the xrp network is any diferent than holding bitcoin

>>11288149
no and i had this argument with JoelKatz on BTC talk some years ago.

HOW DO YOU GET ON THE UNL?

answer they existing people have to add you.

BTC and POS, you can hash or buy in it is permisionless to join.

This means ripple can easily be stopped by a writ from a judge or legislation.

>>11288296
If you saw a validator (Ripple or anyone else) attempting to censor transactions, violate system rules, have poor uptime, have a low rate of agreement with other validators, etc. then you would have a good reason to do so. There are probably many nodes who run somewhat different trusted lists just because they can.

Let's imagine a worst case scenario. A government writes a law requiring Ripple to modify their code to allow central banks to issue more XRP. In that case, nodes who disagree with the change can simply refuse to install the update and they can remove all Ripple validators from their UNL. The XRP Ledger would continue to function exactly the same for them as it did before, and they can continue to interoperate with all other users who made the same decision.

>>11288298
there is no incentive to run a ripple node unless you are a bank or financial institution. There will never be more than 20% of nodes acting against the chosen nodes. Ripple isn't even trying to decentralise consensus, they are trying to decentralize validation which works

not ancap, don't have a problem with ripple
bitcoin is different to xrp because it cannot be regulated. Which is great because it will force people to understand they are a speculator whether they like it or not

>>11288387
there will be no nodes that aren't regulated institutions because it costs money to run a ripple node and their is no reward

additionally I don't envisage us all using currency etc denominated in xrp, USD will be issued on the xrp ledger

>>11288329
>HOW DO YOU GET ON THE UNL?
What UNL? Only Ripple can provide Ripple's recommended UNL. Only you can provide your recommended UNL.

>answer they existing people have to add you.
Each node has complete authority to chose their own UNL. Who's in particular do you want to be on?

>BTC and POS, you can hash or buy in it is permisionless to join.
XRP is also permissionless. Anyone can run a node or validator. The network operates exactly the same for you whether other nodes add you to their UNL or not. You have no right to force them to do so. And you are not missing out on any financial rewards because fees/block rewards are not paid to validators.

>This means ripple can easily be stopped by a writ from a judge or legislation.
No, a judge can't control the code run independently by each node any more than they can ban you from mining in bitcoin.

>>11288329,
"the unl" you are talking about is just a list of validators recommended by ripple, it includes ripple's and third party validators that have the properties that a node is looks for, uptime, speed, is honesty, etc
nodes can choose to trust the validators recommended by ripple or any other validators in the network
>Ripple isn't even trying to decentralise consensus, they are trying to decentralize validation which works
i don't think you understand what you just said, otherwise you wouldn't have said it, because it makes no fucking sense

>there is no incentive to run a ripple node unless you are a bank or financial institution.
but there is incentive to run nodes, there are 896 nodes active now
https://xrpcharts.ripple.com/#/topology
896 active nodes and ripple has around 200 partners and not all of them run nodes, think about it.
anyone interested in the integrity of the network and that wants to interact directly with it would run a node and "it costs as little as running a small email server"

>>11288439
it's really dumb to think that governments are going to force you to run a specific code, are you sure you are not an ancap?
>USD will be issued on the xrp ledger
that's great

>>11288397
>there is no incentive to run a ripple node unless you are a bank or financial institution.
Then why are there over 900 running right now? I'm not aware of any banks currently running one. What I'd hope to see is users running nodes not because they can make money, but because they care about the future of the network.

>there will be no nodes that aren't regulated institutions because it costs money to run a ripple node and their is no reward
Not really. You don't need any specialized hardware. If you can operate a basic server you can run a node.

>additionally I don't envisage us all using currency etc denominated in xrp, USD will be issued on the xrp ledger
I see cryptocurrencies as a compliment to fiat. I don't think any will replace them entirely.

Looks like we have loads of idiots who got stuck buying ath in the last pump.

>>11282672
Unmmm.... they have a network of banks and a product that allows them to use XRP in transactions. Plus they just announced live production deals.

Dude, are you even trying?

>>11288451
no the concept of the UNL (an i use this as the place holder for all nodes lists) means you have to be allowed to join others nodes, they must include you.

BTC is permissionless you can turn on and hash.

>>11282780
Yeah dumbass. That’s the point of consensus.

You can disregard anyone else’s validates too.

>>11288533
that's how we keep harmful chinesse miners out

>>11282672
I'll name a few: A built-in decentralized exchange, native multi-sig and key rotation, payment channels to scale off chain to 50,000 tps, a consensus mechanism that naturally becomes more decentralized over time(opposite of POW and POS).

>>11285766
Checked

>Xrp is so fast it gets lost on the way to its destination

Wasted fucking dubs.

>tfw you realize XRP literally is a better crypto than bitcoin
>tfw you realize the bitcoin maximalists weren't just slightly wrong, they were full on fucking retarded religious zealots

>>11288503
it's really dumb to think the federal reserve will every issue currency on something they cannot control

I don't know what we're arguing about xrp is providing a regulation compliant ledger. The federal reserve controls the supply of money to stimulate the economy. I wouldn't be surprised if the fed issues usd on xrp ledger as it gets rid of cash, maintains a record of every transaction and they can still control the cash rate, implement sanctions force the middle east to only sell oil in usd.

bitcoin cannot be debased it can create societies where communism is logistically infeasible.

>>11288586

Bitcoin is what bitcoin core and the chink miners say it is.

>>11288533
If you run a validator and no one adds you to their UNL, nothing material changes. You still get to verify every single transaction meets protocol rules and maintain ledger history.

What exactly is the issue with this? Why do you desperately need others to add you to their UNL?

>>11288586
there are no administrative functions for xrp tokens itself but there are administrative functions for ious issued in the xrp network
so if the federal reserve were to issue usd in the xrp network they would be able to control their issued usd but not other people's xrp

>>11288586
>xrp is providing a regulation compliant ledger
Ripple is providing a regulatory compliant, private payment network called Ripplenet. This is not the same thing as the XRP Ledger.

>>11288634
>>11288636
I think if xrp became the used currency it would be subject to the same financial regulation as we currently have because I disagree there is financial incentive for nodes to act against regulation. whereas I don't think there is a mechanism to regulate the monetary characteristics of bitcoin outside of what the market decides
agree to disagree

at least with Ripple you pay the jew tax to buy the currency one time and that's it, with the fiat you pay the jewtax of issuing currency over and over again for eternity

>>11288720
just use monero if you want to launder money

>>11288779
would you want inflation if xrp became the world currency?

>>11280373
so it'll still be lower than its ATH, kek

>>11285897
two words: jed mccaleb
three more words: do not invest

>>11288636
still needs XRP to facilitate nostro/vostro transfers. this alone will make the value of XRP rather high.

>>11280041
dumb brainlet detected

he's not the ceo

>>11288619
because only when you are on some one else's UNL's are your transactions recognised by those with you on their UNL

So what the point of running a node if no one accepts you verified transactions.

You can do nothing.

The obverse is, court issues writ against to take nodes of UNL's. This can easily be done in fact.

You can not do that against btc.

>>11289100
>because only when you are on some one else's UNL's are your transactions recognised by those with you on their UNL
Both validators and stock nodes will process all transactions that are submitted. You don't have to be on anyone's UNL for that to occur.

>So what the point of running a node if no one accepts you verified transactions.
Why does anyone run a bitcoin full node? The obvious reason would be that you need reliable access to the network either to submit transactions or for historical data.

No one has to care if you are verifying transactions yourself because they are doing it for themselves as well. The UNL is not a list of authorities who say that transaction A is valid and transaction B is invalid. They simply put transactions into ordered sets and broadcast them to the network. Then every node applies deterministic rules to the transaction set to build the new ledger.

>The obverse is, court issues writ against to take nodes of UNL's. This can easily be done in fact.
They could do that, but it wouldn't be very effective. It is trivial to add new validators to the UNL if one government outlaws a few. And if you've selected a diverse UNL with validators in many different jurisdictions the network could continue to operate without a hitch anyway.

>>11289262
the ban could be super effective.

how are you going to co-ordinate that enough UNL's add enough other reliable UNLS's.

>>11289282
Right now most nodes likely use Ripple's recommended list or close to it. There is no real issue with this since they can change at any time.

In the long run I imagine seeing multiple independent publishers of recommended validators that nodes can choose from. These individuals would do the legwork of determining identity, gathering data on performance, etc. Nodes could either directly use the lists they provide or simply use the information to select their own.

In the event of some kind of catastrophe where a large number of nodes trusted by many went down, an emergency change could always be coordinated through social media. But of course you are selecting your UNL from the start to make this as unlikely as possible.