/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11254254
The absolute state of zoomers

What is interest income

>>11254254
>10 years late

>>11254266
i just bought a 500k house making a 100k a year no issues at all

>>11254257
>implying it isn't true
you're the only zoomer here, you clearly don't remember what 08 recession was about

>>11254254
Short term profits over long term stability. Bankers either have no foresight or are recklessly going ahead with it anyway due to the pressure of needing to make larger and larger annual profits.

>>11254254
They don’t anymore. Now people bitch that they can’t get a mortgage even though they work full time and make 10% of the principal a year.
Mortgage brokers might still be willing to do this, and it might slip through the occassional loan officer.

Banks implement the usury control mechanism invented by the Jews.
You've been bathed in it for so long that it's invisible.
Modern houses are designed so that you overconsume. Big, expensive, and large lots. Then they advise mass immigration to increase the population competing for houses. This ensures a massive income for anyone who owns banks or real estate.
In previous eras, you would get a loan of 0% interest from a family member who could trust you. And you'd build a reasonably priced house with your limited funds.
Now we leverage and loan from a bank owned by rent seekers (Warren Buffet, for example).

Now with their stockpile of funds built over an era, they will crush any resistance to change the system. There is no opt out button, unless you're willing to live in the middle of nowhere.

because the govt says its racist to not give homes to negros

>>11254254
Banks do not do this anymore
Reminder to please support small banks as opposed to the giant jew banks

>>11254383
Mexicans are huge with FHA loans.

>>11254254
Well the idea is that you pay it back when you sell the property.

>>11254254
If you dont pay they get the house + the down payment + any payments you did. How is that a bad deal?

>>11254738
The idea is that you fail to make a payment and the bank takes the house, the principle, and the fucking interest and you get fuck all, goy.

Actual mortgage industry fag here.

Unless you've got a best efforts commitment to an investor (or you keep servicing rights in house) a lender always underwrites a mortgage to Fannie, Freddie, or Ginnie. Not underwriting according to their standards makes the loan unsaleable, which is bad news unless your warehouse line is gigantic. After 08, UW standards went way up due to government regulation and it's much more strict.

No lender wants an unsaleable loan, and unless you're doing some goofy non prime program, you won't be able to get a loan with shit credit or a high DTI program.

Tbh this meme opinion that banks will lend to anyone is not as true now as it was in the past.

>>11254789
Go save up 500k and live renting from a jew building no equity instead then retard

>>11254851
>implying nothing beats equity in an asset class where annual 10% increase is considered a literal moon mission

>>11254719
(((small banks)))

>>11254836
tell that to Fannie Mae

>>11254920
Yes. Money from the community for the community.
Chase, b of a, alliance. They are the jews

>>11254947
>(((Money from the community)))
nice try

>>11254951
Are you dumb? Where do you think the money comes from?

>>11254955
>(((money)))
you should know kike

The whole system is literally a ponzi scheme, it's incredible how few people are aware of this or even care.

I'd like to buy a Bugatti Chiron, but guess what I can't afford it. I don't go take out a loan because I can't afford it.

Just imagine for a minute that people couldn't take out loans to buy homes, some 95% of the population would be sleeping on the street. Imagine if that reality of not being able to afford a home was a problem society couldn't just kick down the road to next generation. Prices of homes would come down real fucking quick and wages would go up. Wages and prices of goods are not keeping pace with reality. By taking out a mortgage, people are subsidizing profits for big companies to overcharge on the price of goods - any good, big or small. Think about it for a minute.

Internationalists are skimming off the top of the US economy and its productivity and leaving the people with less and less each year.

>>11254986
that is to say - your debt is not just for the house your buying. it's for your total cost of living.

>>11254986
Then literally nobody would work in construction to build homes

>>11254986
you're right and the biggest problem is that the average normies doesn't think about such things even for a minute during his wagecuck life.

>>11255011
It wasn't always like this, you realize that, right?

>>11255011
A house used to be about a year's wages. The quality of materials and workmanship has gone down, yet housing prices are now many times that.

>>11255029
>>11255030
Materials are expensive as fuck along with the land itself amd labor. Margins construction companies operate under arent huge

>>11255038
t. Banker

>>11255054
Yes i made that quite obvious. I have seen cost breakdowns for loads of residential homes as well as financials for the companies that build them

>>11255038
>materials
>mostly cardboard shitboxes made out of prefabricated eements
>expensive

>>11255072
Maybe if youre buying a $100k townhome

>>11254986
You even have to take out a mortgage for a mobile home these days that's how bad it's getting.

>>11255087
I've seen car loans now for 8, 9, 10, 12 year terms

>>11255087
not just USA, and this is not a bubble. this is a squeeze. land is running out, unless you want to live in the middle of the desert.

>>11255087
and that's why the kikes make sure to keep the inflation going stronger and stronger, to prevent filthy goyimg for even thinking about saving and buying things they really need. An average goy needs to take a mortgage and once he realizes that he's like
>shit, may as well go for a big one, I'm getting into this shit anyway

>>11255091
absurd. Boomers could buy a car with a summer jobs wage. Now we need to work almost a decade for one.

>>11254254
Because if the housing market crashes and they're left with worthless properties the government will bail them out printing a few hundred billion..

>>11254719
Either way they're still giving 1% or 0% down mortgages in many places again.

>>11255102
I know, have you actually spoken with old people about this? Ask them and they'll tell you. These revisionist kikes keep trying to trick people into thinking they're just wearing rose-tinted glasses.

I worked with a boomer and he would buy a new car every year. A truck would literally take him 2-3 months to pay off. You're completely right - a summer's job. My grandpa worked part time, had a house, and was going to college when he was like 21-22.

>>11255105
Pretty soon the state is going to confiscate all of this land. Someone has to pay for the increasing brown population. It's called "seizing the means"

>>11255102
you could buy a civic for like 2-4k on a summer wage cuck

>>11254836
>Fannie, Freddie, or Ginnie.
Fucking hate this cutesy bullshit.

>>11254986
No one had a decent point against this kek

>>11255126
if you are an american, there is plenty of land. what are you bitching about. if you can't afford to live in jew york or san fran, get out of the kitchen sounds like you can't compete

>>11254836
okay, globalist

>>11254986
>Just imagine for a minute that people couldn't take out loans to buy homes, some 95% of the population would be sleeping on the street

hahah holy shit everyone would just rent, retard.

NOBODY needs to own a home.

Home ownership itself is the scam.

>>11255102
Because those cars were steel death traps that a literal retard could assemble. Modern vehicles have more and more features. You don't have to pay for them. Buy used or base model.

>>11255187
Imagine being so blatantly Jewish that you can't even comprehend the idea of owning your own land. The reason houses are so expensive is because:
>A: we allow rich fucks from all over the third world to buy up our real estate and drive prices through the roof
>B: our wages are artificially suppressed by flooding our countries with immigrants, brainwashing women into becoming wage slaves instead of mothers, and outsourcing manufacturing to third world slaves
>C: they're built to be way too fucking excessive

>>11255011
you don't work in construction yourself so why are you larping on the internet? the cost of labor and materials in building your average $400k home is about $20k to $40k

>>11255241
The cost of the house is immaterial. It's the land you're paying for that carries the greatly inflated price.

>>11254285
Big deal, you could foreseeably pay it off in 8-10 years if you wanted to, or the regular 20-30 if you wanted otherwise

>>11254266
This
People think that the banking industry is still this way, but now banks make fuckin sure you will be good on a loan

>>11254955
Money comes from loans, brainlet. The money is created as a deposit in your account when you take a loan.

>>11254986
You aren't too bright. Loans are important to the economy. Matter of fact they increase the economy. They aren't as you you basically say as a negative that always increases the cost of goods. Housing prices crashed and people got loans to buy them cheap. People also got loans to buy them when they were expensive. Loans are a tool, not a means to value an investment.

Your argument seems based on the current thought that raising tuition is a consequence of the increasing number of student loans. This disregards that in reality there are just more students going to college than ever before. That causes the rise.

>>11255425
Economics: where the conclusions are rationalized after the fact and intellectual integrity doesn't matter.

>>11254354

Have you been living under a rock. Sub prime mortgages have been back for two years already.

They're called non prime mortgages now. Google it. Demand has been soaring and the federal mortgage agencies have lowered their requirements again.

Its all happening again. People have their heads in the sand because they think "this time will be different".

>>11255425
You are a fucking moron.

>>11255425
>Your argument seems based on the current thought that raising tuition is a consequence of the increasing number of student loans. This disregards that in reality there are just more students going to college than ever before. That causes the rise.
Nope. You sir are what is known as a useful idiot.

>>11254285
Congratulations you paid 300k more than what you would have done without all this central bank 'help'

>>11255425
>there are just more students going to college than ever before. That causes the rise.

>>11255190

Base models eh. Guess what, over 50% of the cost of a new car is electronics, this includes base models. We’re fucked.

>>11255020
Normies only think about one month or so in to the future
>Normie: wow, my mortgage repayment is now $10 less a month, thanks lower interest rates
> Us: Yeah, but the mortgage term is longer because house prices are higher DUE TO lower rates, so you have to pay an extra $400,000 over the life of the mortgage just for somewhere to live
>Normie: yeah, but its $10 less a month!

>>11255123
Not my terms. Its gay but it's faster than saying FHLMC

>>11255155
I'm riding the tiger family. Gotta have enough money to save so that one day I can fuck off to my own property and write nationalist propaganda and make brandy.

>>11254254
Because debt is money. Banks can create millions out of that 600k due to fractional reserve banking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcJHk77bUGo

>>11255425
You're argument got shit on so fast I'm giggling

>bank earns interest
>If you go bankrupt they repossess the house and make most if not more their money back

>>11254254
hyperinflation by the end of the decade.

>>11254254
Because as long as they make one cent profit the banks are coming out on top.

>>11255187
>living as a service

>>11254254
Because we are NOT in a housing bubble.

>>11254986
retard

>>11254254
Mort-gage
Morte meaning death. Aka death loan.
You're not supposed to pay it off, it's supposed to be a lifetime debt.

>>11254885
Property tax and maintenance fees eat into any return from housing.

>>11254285
back in 07 you could buy a 500k house with no income at all

>>11257380
Why did anyone let this happen, how did it make any business sense to do this.

>>11254381
until bitcoin, which is an opt out button long term, unless they can execute a 51% attack on it. the media attacks and political attacks against bitcoin won't change the facts you've laid out. the only way to stop it from gaining value long term in nominal terms in the current system is to make it non-operational via a 51% attack

Because they know that if the economy crashes, they will get fat bank bailouts. Its crony capitalism, not free market.

>>11257397
because they repackaged the mortgages and sold them to european banks. Thus a worldwide economic crash. Everybody was making money though, because debt = money.

>>11255241
>our wages are artificially suppressed by flooding our countries with immigrants, brainwashing women into becoming wage slaves instead of mothers
this. after the jewish trick known as "feminism" took off women flooded the employment market and, as you can imagine, the sudden doubling of workforce absolutely ruined it for the common man. the jews were happy of course because they got tons of cheap labor.
if only women weren't fucking stupid and didn't fall for feminism.

>>11257397
>how did it make any business sense to do this.

They knew they would get bailouts. Its the "too big to let it fall" logic. If the government let markets be free, that would not happen.

>>11257590
they repackaged and sold to fannie mae too, fannie mae still is holding over 3 trillion in "assets" eg loans with negative 3 billion equity. it's so fucking fake it's hard to even believe it exists. if the fundamentals mattered in the short term we would already be in mad max

lets say you have 20% saved for a down payment on a house in your area. do you buy now before prices continue to increase, or do you wait and save for another couple years to see if the market turns down? a-asking for a friend

>>11257665
dude, nobody can answer this type of question. you're appealing to someone who is somehow certain whatever way the market is heading up or down and that's impossible to know.

if you are going to live in the place for a foreseeable amount of time and able to ride out any volatility then buy. if you can't handle the volatility then keep waiting. but know this, anybody who tells you with confidence how the market is going to go one way or another is full of shit, nobody knows for certain, that's the market.

>>11257665
Wait for the next recession in a couple years. The market cycle is closing, my man.

>>11257665
depends on your country, region, and 10 other factors

>>11254254

That retard zoomer doesn't know how approvals work

He'll probably get approved for like 150k

>>11257665
It's obviously a ponzi system held together by endless borrowing
But they can always just borrow more and inflate the bubble further but postpone the inevitable crash
You could find yourself waiting another 20 years for the crash during which time you could earn more fiat ponzi bucks

I don't know what to do either fren

>>11257684
i ran some numbers on renting for 15 years vs. paying a mortgage for 15 years, and even if the value of your property goes down / remains stagnant, it still seems like a massive net gain. am i retarded?

>>11257686
i hope you're right. market has been red hot here in seattle.

>>11257717
did you calculate the opportunity cost of putting your capital towards a downpayment? include maintenance costs like strata fee, property tax, heating, repairs and maintenance?

>>11257745
not at all, i just ran some numbers to get a general idea. for instance: in 15 years of renting at $1k a month, I'd be -180k. if I spent 80k on a down payment on a 400k house with a 15 year fixed mortgage, i'd pay 103k in interest but have a 400k house and be + 294k (400k house value - 103k interest paid). am i on the right track, or completely ass backwards?

>>11255453
It will be different. This time they let the banks take the hit. And since 100k or something is secured for the normies, they will pay it out of the stock price.

>>11255241
>Imagine being so blatantly Jewish that you can't even comprehend the idea of owning your own land.

or maybe the state should be the only one capable of owning land
https://falkvinge.net/2017/03/01/a-simplified-taxless-state-a-proposal-part-1/

>>11257812
your math is wrong. mortgage payments calculate as interest and towards equity. 103k in 'interest' is probably around 63k in interest and 40k towards the principle of your property. to do a cost comparison you need to compare two scenarios. one where you rent for a specific term at a specific price and assuming the cost of rent increases while taking into account of your 80k downpayment as an investment into something else, say equities. assume a % of annual return on that downpayment.

second scenario you need to look at mortgage rates and terms. assume the cost of the mortgage per month minus the equity portion. that's your interest cost. add strata fee + heating + electricity + insurance +maintenance + property tax to that number. take that total monthly payment and see what the difference is between renting and owning.

you must also adjust for that fact that property values may go up or down during that time the same way your equities investments will. if rent is cheaper per month more then owning, you must also calculate how much money you would have made if you had invested that difference into equities to find the 'true cost'.

>>11255320
You have literally 0 experience with this shit while i look at it every other day
>>11255401
Money comes from deposits retard. Banks are so heavily regulated nowadays

>>11254836
I did not understand a single word of what you just said

>>11258842
Mortgage lending operates strangely. A lender will usually sell a loan to an investor (like Chase or Penny Mac) rather than keep a loan on it's books. It's a liability to wait 30 years for your money. The investor will usually then split up the loan into the servicing rights and the right to the amount. The investor will then sell those servicing rights to Fnma or Fhlmc or Gnma. Each of these agencies have underwriting standard for the loan, so an investor won't buy the loan from the lender unless it's UW to their standards (credit score, proof of income, property type and occupancy type,etc...).

Some investors service the loan themselves and thus are willing to take on stranger loans (jumbos, low credit score, etc..). These are usually high interest rates though (I've seen upwards of 8.5% for a non prime).

Does that explain it a bit better?

>>11258839
Deposits come from loans you fucking retard. You can move the deposit around, put it in another bank or someone else's account. Withdraw it and deposit it again. But where did it come from in the first place? A loan. It was created as a deposit on an account. The deposit didn't exist and then it did. This is how money works.

>>11254254
Because they’re just good guys

>>11254285
How much are you supposed to make generally vs the cost of buying a house?

>>11254851
The mortgage system is design to fuck the consumer over. That doesn't mean you should never strive to own property, fuckwit.

>>11255095
how easy is it to move to japan

>>11255155
Yowza! Check out this red pilled dude!

>>11254986
rightwing /pol/ack with 0 understanding of economics and a tendency to settle for simple answers when the question becomes slightly complex

>>11257590
>>11257625
What does it mean to repackage them.

>>11257884
You're a fucking moron. A big part of the reason USA is so powerful is that citizens CAN own land AND the mineral rights. It's why we developed shale. Land ownership is as non-negotiable as the rights to free speech and to bear arms.

>>11254381
Very pilled right here

>>11255102

>mfw my grandpops who was born in 1930 bought his first vehicle for 25 dollars in the late 40’s (used) and his first house for 25k right outside of a major city in the early 60’s

>>11259939
>he gave the steering wheel and door knob a firm handshake

>>11255425

Hmm wonder what enabled more students to go to college compared to before

>>11255478
This is why Japan have low birth rate

>>11255449

Hammer, meet nail. Your sentence sums up the kike brainwashed cope these faggots are spewing out.

>>11257617
The bailout is a must to make the recession less severe then the last one.

>>11257397
it was similar to crypto buyers in late 2017, no one thought the house of cards could ever fall, plus only a small number of people knew the truth and had access to the data that told it. they saw AAA credit ratings and didn't even think twice about it.

>>11254354
it would be fraud. mortgages are underwritten to investor guidelines, and unless you have a private investor (you don't after 2008) then that's going to be a GSE, and a GSE audits all the loans before they buy them. if the bank or broker did anything wrong, then it's unsaleable and there's a new few-hundred-thousand-dollars sitting on the bank's books - which the banks will do anything to avoid. too many bad loans in a pool blows the whole pool too. the regulators also have a direct line to the mortgage company databases with all the closing details so they can monitor for any fraud. t. bankfag analyst

the next housing crisis is already underway, but it will be nothing like the last one. it will mostly be an affordability crisis since supply is still so low, but places like seattle and LA will likely be given massive reality checks.

>>11254254
If you pay back that $600k and say 4% interest over 25 years, the bank earns like $250k or so

If you go bust - the bank will have accumulated interest from you up until that point, but then proceed to repossess the house and sell it - at least breaking even at worst.

Mortgages are a no brainer for banks

>>11259854
mortgage bank closes a bunch of loans through X loan program. the bank creates a pool of loans and sells back to the investor. the bank makes money off the spread in interest rate . the investor takes the pools they bought, pool them, and sell to another investor while taking a cut. the new investor takes those, and sells again. now you see why 2008 happened. it's like the game telephone but the first person in the chain was a neet who bought a house on autismbux.

All

what is the proper amount of savings/salary, and proper first time home buyer mortgage loan % to buy say a 450k house.

I got about 80k saved up
making 60k at the moment

ive heard that first time home buyer loans can be so low that its smart to put almost nothing down, is this true?

>>11260422
the banks only make money off the servicing fees, the investors own the debt but also all the risk. that's why lehmen collapsed and the mortgage banks didn't.

>>11260467
even with a 5% down payment that would be over 50% debt to income on that salary, and no, you won't be putting zero down on a jumbo mortgage, not unless you use one of the suicide-tier non-banks. I make over double that and wouldn't even consider a 450k house, especially not near the top of the price bubble.

>>11260549
my savings gotta count for something though no?

ill have 100k saved up and be up to at least 70 in the next few years.

And I guess more importantly, I imagine since most people are poor now that buyers are going to dry quick and house prices should drop
thoughts?

>>11254381

Me go live in cave now

>>11254254
https://www.slideshare.net/guesta9d12e/subprime-primer-277484

>>11260572
your savings only accounts for doing a large down payment and making the total loan amount smaller. total life of loan that 100k wouldn't cause a dent in the ~800k you'll end up paying back. once you get the loan below 420k-ish then it goes back to non-jumbo underwriting standards, but still, you would be house-poor as fuck if you qualified, like eating lentils for all meals tier. you should aim for 33% debt to income at the absolute highest but 10-20% more realistically.

>>11260601
appreciate the feedback, needed someone to bounce ideas off of.

So in todays world if im buying a 450k house, you think ill be paying 800k ultimmately??

a 450k house, what am i loooking at 2.5k a month mortgage? lets say 700 a month in house taxes..?
what does insurance look like?

>>11260658
>So in todays world if im buying a 450k house, you think ill be paying 800k ultimmately??
there's no "think" here, that's at or around what you'll pay over 30 years at around today's interest rates. yes you'll be paying between 2500-3000 a month depending on the area, and you only pull 5k a month @ 60k before taxes. the idea is ludicrous.

I'm sorry if you live an an area where 450k is a starter home, but that's all the more reason not to buy. those areas are already slowing down and will get decimated when the delusion stops.

>>11260695
thanks my man.

and my question on where you think house prices are going?
I imagine since most people are poor now that buyers are going to dry quick and house prices should drop

any predictions on the dramtic nature and hte timing, if you agree?

>>11259745
IDK 30% seems like a fair number. That will leave you with enough money to take care of purchases and utilities and shit like that without having to crunch numbers every month

>>11260708
supply is still a problem and prices in flyover areas have been hit 100x less bad than in the "hot" cities. the hot areas will have a massive cool-down but not yet. new super jumbo mortgage programs are being created to keep up with prices, so the hot areas will stay hot for a while longer. it could be a year or two before we really know what might happen. don't expect a fire sale like last time, but reality is going to catch up.

>>11260749
my initial plan was to buy in 2 years
perhaps bring my parents (and their 40k income) in, a girlfriend

iinteresting

>>11260769
don't ever buy a house with someone you aren't married to (especially girlfriend), you'll get fucked, also you are making a mistake. set your bar lower, 100-200k at the most. you're going to fuck yourself and your future.

>>11254254
Was told by a banker it was illegal to buy a house cash

>>11255476

Hey any chance we could get that turd of a graph adjusted for inflation?

>>11254719
Yeah they do even liar loans are back

>>11254254
>b banker
>own a house
>some dude wants a house
>doesn't have money but has a job
>say its fine, he can pay over time. if u fail, ill just take the house back and some money
>sell mortgage contract to investors since im a filthy money loving jew and want the money now
its all fine and dandy until too many people default
then, their houses get reacquired and go back for sale. due to increased supply but unchanged demand, house prices decrease. then normal people purposefully break their contract since they're overpaying for it since they signed it when house prices were still high

>>11259761
You are so dumb lmao
As I said go ahead and save up 500K solo and buy your house when you're 40 then

>>11254254

Couldn't you like just take two 600 000$ loans mortgages and use them on Bitcoin, then move to Thailand and never pay anything back?

>>11254323

They know they'll get a bailout if shit hits the fan.

The bank gets all your money every month, then when you default they get the house.

That's how it works.

>>11261613
In the 2008 financial crisis, why did banks get bailed out instead of the American people who instead became homeless because not only did they lose their house but also all of the principal and interest they had paid on it up until that point?

>>11254986
>Prices of homes would come down real fucking quick and wages would go up.
Wait, how are you proposing that wages would go up from mortgages going away?

>>11255241
You can own your own land. But there's a limited supply of land, and there are some stretches of land a lot of people want, like a lot in the center of Manhattan, and lots not many people want, like the same sized lot in a forest in Wyoming. Prices are the means of determining who gets the former, and who gets the latter. Where does the "jewish idea of owning your own land" question even come from?

>>11254986
This. Most of the populations existence is dependent on debt. The keynesian economy is like a game of musical chairs except you die if you dont have a chair when the music stops

>>11261735
This is why Bernie and Trump were so popular during the election season. Everyone kinda has a sense of how unjust that was. I honestly think our modern politics are kinda defined by the '08 financial crisis. Any congressman that doesn't vote to at least audit the fed is not trustworthy, regardless of left/right

>>11255691
The only problem with fractional reserve banking, is government bailouts.
If there was no bailouts, nobody would want to put their money into banks that are over leveraged.

>>11255054
https://www.bamsec.com/filing/162828018000562?cik=920760

>>11254986
basically this.

loans aren't inherently evil, but with near 0% interest rate price fixing by govts, all over the world, for almost 10 years now, the distortions in pricing are huge.

>>11260221
The threat of recession is what keeps these retards in line. If the government just bails people out for stupidity then we're just going keep pumping the bubble

>>11254323
>>11261735
>>11262483
What you don't seem to understand is that the only reason banks keeps producing infinite credit is because the government covers their back. Even if it goes down crashing and they lose it, the state will cover their loss in credit, which allows them to produce credit irresponsibly over and over again.

>>11259854
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbiDrzTd8fE

>>11259667

How does proof of income justify anything on a 30 year loan? This always confused me, very rare for someone to keep the same job for 30 years.

>>11255476
This is in nominal terms. Might look differently if adjusted for inflation.

>>11255095
I thought Japan has the most expensive homes. Is this chart legit?

>>11257888
i don't know if you'll see this but thank you for helping to steer me in the right direction. doing more research now.

>>11255038
being this clueless and confident