/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>11081432
Silver >>>> gold

If you want boomer tier returns during a crisis by gold.

If you want to retire at age 25 and laugh while the world shits itself by silver

>labor theory of value
>I don't need to participate in the economy's productivity increases over time, my purchasing power shouldn't just grow
not gonna make it

>>11081452
silver can be mined from an asteroid. cheap too because its so light. gold is too heavy to happen in our lifetime.

>>11081455
Purchasing power isn't supposed to grow. At least not multiple times. If I work for a week at some decent job in 1920 and make 20$ or 1 ounce of gold. That 20$ which buys you a nice suit in 1920 isn't supposed to buy you 18 nice suits 100 years in the future for just holding that 20$ or gold ounce in a safety deposit box.

You put in decent sweat equity and made a decent weekly wage.... it isn't supposed to buy you a fucking house 100 years later for simply holding it.

Production increases has nothing to do with your sweat equity you put in at a point of time in the past

>>11081455
Now if you work for a week and invest in a stock that creates real value and you make returns in your money that's different. That's investing.

But simply holding money isn't supposed to buy 1 suit today and 25 suits 100 years from now

>>11081480
Would you shut the fuck up with muh asteroid mining bullshit? If you think asteroid mining is gonna be feasible even within the next 50 years you have the iq of a demented muskrat. Not even factoing in were about to have a major financial crisis which will set back all space development decades

>>11081455
Nobody is saying don't invest. People invested under a gold standard too brainlet. But you need savings too otherwise there's no investment! And gold is savings!

You honestly put 100% of your net worth in dollar denominated investments? Like the stock market? And you have zero savings?

>>11081523
Yeah honestly I really want to rape the wives of these asteroid mining people

>>11081523
>financial crisis
you sound like a moron millennial who cant get a job
>impossible
ok - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_Redirect_Mission
>being this mad

>>11081452
Yeah I agree.... but I'm just making a point. You can use silver as well in my example

>>11081543
OP and I are going to literally trace your IP and rape your wife

>>11081543
>you sound like a moron millennial who cant get a job
literal boomer detected
you will burn soon

>>11081571
>>11081569
i guess all these companies are just vapor. keep getting salty, because it is coming.

>>11081496
>>11081511
>>11081524
So you want money that has a supply that grows precisely in step with world GDP so that a fixed amount of money always represents a fixed amount of stuff? Would be interesting I guess, but gold certainly won't do that for you.

Commodities (gold is a commodity, not a form of money) are both more volatile and produce less returns than stocks or real estate. You would have to be an idiot to hold them for anything other than short term arbitrage. Comparing it against fiat money which is intended for making short term transactions and not long term storage is only making you look more retarded.

>>11081578
You're going to be jerking off in the corner as we eiffle tower her won't you you little cuck?

>>11081603
Moron. Gold is money and stocks are investments...

If gold isn't money and a store of value then why do people exchange their fiat for it?

>>11081603
Gold isn't supposed to produce returns you brainlet.

When I buy Amazon stock with fiat I'm doing that for a completely different reason than when I go to a coin shop and exchange fiat for gold.

I'm buying Amazon stock because I want more fiat.....

And I'm buying gold because fiat is a scam and I'm worried that the dollar will implode.

Do you see the difference? I'm literally spoonfeeding you.

People used gold and silver to BUY things for centuries and to SAVE. You don't buy shit with stocks and stocks aren't savings

>>11081593
What do you mean gold won't do that for you?

Gold buys you the same amount of shot today as it did 100 and 2,500 years ago.

We got taken off a gold standard for a reason. So the Jews could confiscate our wealth through inflation.

There was no "income inequality" issue under a gold standard. Now that we've been off a gold standard for 50 years "income inequality" is literally a top 2-3 issue

>>11081930
>>11081956
Gold is not money. Can I walk into a grocery store and pay with gold? Can I pay my landlord rent in gold? Can I order something from Amazon in gold? If not, then what is gold good for? You say you want your wealth to hold value right? If I told you 100 years from now you could have a nice suit, or 100 years from now you could have 100 nice suits, which would you rather have? Where does gold come into the equation? Why would anyone pick to buy gold and only be able to afford 1 suit?

>>11081986
>Gold buys you the same amount of shot today as it did 100 and 2,500 years ago
Where the actual fuck did you get that idea? Take a chart of gold/usd and a chart of the usd price of whatever shit you want to buy. You'll find that gold does not buy you a stable amount of anything, and never has.

>>11081956
>And I'm buying gold because fiat is a scam and I'm worried that the dollar will implode.
so fiat is a scam run by jews, but also jews want to destroy it?

>>11082035
>Go to shithole bumfuckatia
>Have to exchange dollars for local currency
>Need to find a place to exchange dollars for currency

>Go to shithole bumfuckatia
>Have to exchange gold for local currency
>Go to any pawn shop/trade with any local

Gold is gold around the world. Dollars/Euros/Lira/Rubble etc. can become worth 2x less in a day. Even more once it hyper inflates. You Americans are lucky because your currency is considered world reserve currency. With shithole currencies it's a lot more difficult to exchange around the world. Unless you've got gold. Gold is a language everyone understands.

>>11082056
pic rel

>>11081452
This chart has been debunked. The data points are definitely wrong.

https://sdbullion.com/blog/how-much-silver-gold-is-there/

>>11082117
>go to shithole bumfuckatia
>credit card does conversions automatically
>don't get scammed 30% at the pawn shop
>don't get robbed at gunpoint in the streets
Wow, that was hard.

>>11082035
Go(l)d isnt a liquid asset so you cant just go and exchange it for goods or services, the only reason hard cash has any value is because it is liquid, this means it has instrumental value, but not inherent value, there was a time hard cash was backed by go(l)d, that time has passed, now hard cash is backed by a nations USD reserves (mostly), USD is backed by how liquid it is.

>>11082117
that chart cuts out a convenient amount of data for your argument

>>11082137
What I tried to imply with my words was that the GOLD is, was and will be the true world currency. The jews are trying hard to brainwash everyone that it's not and steal as much as they can. There are theories that American treasury is empty.

They are printing infinite amounts of fiat with no backing, banks create 2x dollars every time you deposit cash by inputting 100 virtual dollars into your bank account which you use to pay in bumfuckatia, leaving your country with extra 100 cash dollars. Don't get me started on virtual money when you take out a loan and have to pay interest rates thus creating extra fiat and borrowing from the future. If you were to return all American debt you'd run out of available fiat half way through.
You're being enslaved by money. You have to work to eat. Fiat appears out of thin air. Your wages aren't going up. Only your currency purchasing power is going down. The jews will leave America once it's run dry and everyone's in debt to their system. Then they will bring out socialism/communism as the poor people savior. They did this before. They will do it again. Enjoy your life.

>>11082056
Then why has it been money for milennia?

Your valuing gold in terms of worthless fiat.

100 years ago gold bought you a nice suit and still buys you a nice suit today. 20$ bought you a nice suit 100 years ago and that same 20$ doesn't even buy you lunch for two at Taco Bell today.

Brainlet.

There's literally a quote in the Bible saying 1 oz of gold bought you 350 loves of bread 2,500 fucking years ago. If you take that gold ounce to a coin shop you'll get $1200 for it and if you take that 1200$ to a grocery store you can still buy roughly 350 loaves of bread

>>11082239
Why do you keep harping about FIAT this FIAT that? I don't give a shit about FIAT. I keep 3 months of expenses and use it for my day to day transactions. It could drop to 0 for all I care. Gold is still shit compared to assets with actual value.

>>11082035
Money isn't just a medium of exchange you dumbass. It's a unit of account, store of value, scarce, fungible, indestructible, anonymous....basically all the things gold is.

And if money was JUST a medium of exchange..... gold has certainly helped up better than the dollar since you can still buy roughly the same amount of shit today as you could 100 years ago.... can't say the same for the dollar

>>11082245
Why would I only want 1 nice suit when literally anything else besides gold and fiat will give me 100 nice suits? Congratulations! Gold performed better than fiat over the past 100 years. It is the second worst thing you can buy!

>>11082177
Gold isn't liquid? You can literally go to any corner of the planet and exchange gold for fiat.

>>11082265
No you can't. In most places you would simply be robbed at gunpoint on the spot. In civilized countries you would be paying a 20% markup.

>>11082245
woke

>>11082245
>hurr durr a basic conversion from gold/usd*usd/stuff -> gold/stuff doesn't work because fiat is involved
>one data point from the fucking bible shows gold is stable
I know I'm taking a lot for granted, but I literally refuse to believe you're stupid enough to actually think that the same amount of gold has consistently bought you the same amount of any good throughout history

>>11082252
What happens to fiat when it exists against gold? What happens to stocks once crisis hits and dollar inflates?

What happens to fiat when it exists against btc? What happens to shitcoins once btc enters a bear market?

>>11082252
lol this comment just prices how fucking shit tier out public schools are. You don't even understand that gold is an asset that represents wealth.

When you buy ammo that has value as something you use for self defense.

When you buy food food has value as nourishment.

When you have gold it's inherit value that it IS money to PROTECT your wealth you dumb nigger.

If you knew ahead of time hyperinflation would hit next month and you have a million dollars. Your telling me your going to put your entire net worth in canned foods and ammo and medicine? And you aren't going to exchange any of your paper wealth for gold so your savings is protected?

>>11082264
A gold ounce 900 years ago is still that same ounce of gold today. Your so fucking stupid you don't even understand the difference between savings/money and investments.

The fucking issue is WHY are prices RISING?

Nobody is saying don't invest in stocks you stupid nigger.

The issue is why is the dollars I earn losing value? Doesn't mater if you invest in the stock market or not.

Why does a dollar that I put under my bed as savings lost all its value in 100 years?

WHY IS THAT HAPPENING

>>11082304
>>11082301
Stocks outperformed gold by 10x during the Weimar hyperinflation. Real estate was even better. Of course, foreign currencies did better than gold as well. Gold managed to beat Marks. Congratulations! Second to last place! Way to go shiny metals!

>>11082274
Oh.... so your saying I would be robbed for my fucking gold? Why would someone want to rob be for a "useless asset" as you say you unlogical dumb nigger?

You just said gold is a useless asset yet someone is going to want to fuckijg rob me for that? Do you even know how to use your brain and think?

>>11082323
So you would rather have 1 suit than 100 suits? Just how retarded are you? Keep hoarding your gold. Hey! You're beating the dollar! You are not last place! Good for you!

>>11082334
People would also rob you for cash. So I guess cash is just as valuable as gold right????????????

>>11082324
Are you fucking retarded?

Gold is money and stocks are investments.

The dollar value of gold is IRRELEVANT! Did gold all of a sudden become valuable when America was born and the dollar was created? Of course not. So why would you be valuing gold in terms of dollars.

In fact... it's GOLD that gave the dollar its VALUE you dumbass.

When I buy stocks I want to make more fiat.... when I buy gold I'm doing so because we are 20 trillion in debt and the govt is out of control and I want to protect my wealth in a fiat collapse.

That's LITERALLY the entire point of buying gold you moron

We really should have a precious metal general thread that get's maintained daily.

/pmg/ anyone ??

>>11082339
Did I say it's stupid to invest? Did I say don't make investments in companies? No.

My entire fucking premise is WHY are prices rising? Prices rising don't have shit to do with whether you invest in the stock market and make returns or not.

60 years ago 8$/hour was fantastic income.... today 8$/hour puts you in abject poverty.... WHATS CHANGED?

>>11082346
Yeah but you just said gold is a useless asset. You literally just made a better argument for owning gold than I have in this entire thread.

You said people would rob you for your gold. Yeah your right! Because gold is wealth and real money! That's why they would rob you!

>>11082364
Its fascinating to me. I literally spoonfeeding these dopes with examples and they can't break free from the shitty govt public school and Jew propaganda that has infected their fiat loving brains

>>11082355
Why are you so hung up about FIAT? Stocks are not tied to fiat. Real estate is not tied to FIAT. Just look at any hyperinflation scenarios. If you want gold so badly, the best way to get more is to buy stocks! If you bought the DOW in 1920 for $20 instead of 1 oz of gold, you could buy 100 oz of gold today. If you bought stocks in Germany before the hyperinflation, you would have 10x the amount of gold! Why do you keep talking about FIAT FIAT FIAT FIAT when FIAT doesn't matter? Stocks don't care about FIAT. You can price stocks in GOLD and they still rise in every scenario.

>>11082323
>The issue is why is the dollars I earn losing value?
you could have just googled it. it's not some kind of conspiracy.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/111314/what-causes-inflation-and-does-anyone-gain-it.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_targeting

>>11082402
I know what's going on.... I'm asking them what they think is going on. Our wealth is being stolen through inflation.

>>11082390
I hear ya. I'm sitting on about 12oz of gold, so I'm pretty comfy right now

>>11082385
>You literally just made a better argument for owning gold than I have in this entire thread.
Sadly true

>>11082391
Ok but you still have to buy gold, right? Just because you 10x your money and can buy 10 times the amount of gold... you still have to have the fucking goldnin your hands right?

I invest in stocks and when I make a good return I put a % into gold. But I still have to buy the actual fucking gold so I have the asset in my possession right???

And what if I say well... I'm going to sell all my gold now and put it in the market and either the stock market collapses or there's an overnight gold revaluation 5 months from now. And I don't get the chance to put it into gold before a paradigm shift happens.

>>11082391
stocks rise in every scenario LOLOLOLOLOL excpet when the jews asset stripped the whole nation and everything of value was destroyed or handed to jews and jew slaves. The global economy collapsed and the biggest loss of wealth in earths history!!!! That was just this fucking decade!!!!!!! GOD DAMNED 14YR OLDS GET OFF OF /BIZ/!

>>11082414
you're not supposed to keep your savings in liquid cash. the primary point of inflation to encourage people to spend of invest.
else you get something like what happened to BTC where everybody is too afraid to spend their coins in case they become one of those headlines where they ate a million dollar pizza.

>>11082324
>When WW1 winners place embargos up your ass and make you pay up so you print shitloads of money to fuck them up and return the reparations, only not fucking up foreign companies. Really makes you THINK.

Also I'm not and no one is saying that if you want to be rich you should invest in gold. We're just saying that gold is the real money accepted worldwide, backed by your ancestors and everyone. Currency gets born, grows up and dies. Gold works like time, currency works like living beings. If you want to be rich stock market is pretty good if you play your cards right. You're obviously comparing shiny rock to stock performance. Of course stocks will win. No doubt about it. But basically gold works like tether. If there's a btc/economical crisis you tether up/buy gold to protect your accumulated wealth. When the crisis passes, you buy 3x the amount of btc/fiat. Now economical cycle is complete. It's safe to buy shitcoins/stocks and make more money. You are talking about hurr duhrrr stocks always outperform stones, even though stocks have to also beat off fiat inflation. If the stock stays at the same price you lost wealth because dollar lost purchasing power.

>>11082265
i get what you’re saying, but go(l)d is an end in and of itself, not a means to an end, so how can it be classed as liquid ? You can only exchange a gold bar for another gold bar.

>>11082290
Over long time lengths it has. If you bought gold in 2011 and have it now.... and sold.... you lost purchasing power BUT that's because the gold price is the manipulated comex paper price... which isn't the real physical price of gold.

There's a lot of naked short selling to keep the price suppressed....

But.... Once I buy I don't care about the dollar price because I'm buying because I understand fiat is a scam.

If gold hits 3k this year all that's happened is dollar got more worthless. That gold ounce is the same despite the dollar price. It's a phantom profit.

>>11082452
Inflation is destruction of wealth.

What the hell do you mean your not supposed to keep your cash (money) in liquid cash? Your literally saying savings is bad?

Why is the govt controlled institutions encouraging investment? But not encouraging savings too? They aren't suppoSed to be involved in this shit. Where does it say in the first constitution that govt is supposed to encourage investment?

>>11082468
Yeah, when gold goes down 50% in a year like in 2014 it doesn't matter and you don't care about the dollar price but when stocks do that signifies an economic collapse. What a riot. What a hypocrite. What a larper. You probably have less than 1lb of gold and think you're some epic revolutionary. How long have you been waiting for the market to collapse to buy it up with your gold? How is that going for you?

>>11082463
No gold is the end. Gold is wealth. If I make 50k profit in dollars in the stock market I still need to cash out and exchange it into real wealth to realize that gain.

>>11082494
I don't care about the dollar price. In fact.... I hope gold drops to 250$ an ounce because that means the govt has become fiscally responsible again.

Your problem is you don't realize a good healthy economy means dropping prices.

If gold goes down to 300$/ounce because of a healthy economy I would love that because that will mean a jimmy johns sandwich chipsnand a drink will be 4$ instead of 12$ like it is today so in real terms you don't lose with gold going down

>>11082494
Sure... the stock market is going up but so is the prices of all assets too so you really aren't making the real gains you think you are making

>>11082520
Gold dropped 50% in 2014, but the prices of sandwiches did not. The value of goods is not tied to gold at all. When gold tanks because China suddenly decided to start mining then you are shit out of luck. But since you're a poor larper no wealth you don't have much to lose.

>>11082468
You want to spend $10k on a used car. If gold goes from 1k to 3k next year and you can still get the same used car (or anything else) for $10k, then your gold has appreciated in value, that's not a phantom profit.

If the car now costs $30k along with everything else tripling because gold has tripled in value, then you're right, that's a phantom profit. Except of course that never fucking happens, because nobody measures prices of goods in gold. The fluctuations of gold's USD price has no relation whatsoever to whether the USD is gaining or losing value, because that's measured against actual goods and services you can buy with your USD and not gold prices. Your argument makes no sense whatsoever.

The only sensible thing you've said in this entire thread is that gold is a hedge against fiat suddenly collapsing.

>>11082374
FED HAS to print FIAT because paper/virtual money gets TRASHED. Oops you fucked up a 100 dollar bill. Need to print one extra to make up for it. Basically there are billion other ways fed floods human market with fiat. If there's shit loads of fiat floating around, everyone has money. Everyone can't be rich because no one's gonna wageslave, system collapses. Instead jews steal your life through fiat and thourgh your hard work through system they created. They don't have to move a finger. As for WHY IS EVERYTHING BECOMING MORE EXPENSIVE. It's simple. I go to the store and see that a cola costs 10 dollars. For me to be able to afford that cola I need to make more money. If I'm a business I will ask more money out of my consumers for the same job/item than I used to so that I could afford that cola and feed my family. Now you're the one getting fucked over as a consumer because I sold you an expensive item/ did an expensive job. You now gotta earn more so that you could feed your family. As to at which point this starts... It's all about greed, but free market should fix it. Basically I can't raise my prices infinitely because no one's gonna buy from me. They will buy from the same business next door who can offer cheaper prices. The problems start when you have monopolies. And fed is the worst monopoly of all with America being the number one monopoly country in the world, controlling the world reserve currency. Which is being controlled by fed. Which is being controlled by rich wealthy fucks who are mostly jews. THEY CREATED THIS SYSTEM. They're pushing consumerist ideas through rap or anything. As long as consumerist wheel keeps on spinning they're winning. Normies and women are too retarded to not want the latest iphone. The true red pill is being a poor minimalist or playing along with the system if you understand how it works.

>>11081480

>>11082548
If gold goes from 1k to 3k in a year that car is going to cost more than 10k a year from now.

Gold is just gold. It is stored economic energy. Doesn't matter if the dollar exists or not.

If dollar disappears from the world tomorrow morning my wealth in gold is completely unaffected.

Yes there is paper price manipulation that fucks with the dollar price of gold in the short term... but I'm not buying gold to sell at a profit for more worthless dollars. I'm buying gold because I want to avoid fakenpapwr wealth

>>11082585
>If gold goes from 1k to 3k in a year that car is going to cost more than 10k a year from now.
No, it won't. Or if it does, that's not likely to have anything to do with gold rising in price, unless your car is made of gold.
>Gold is just gold. It is stored economic energy.
You've gone so far off the deep end with gold mania there's no way back for you. I'm out, have fun with your thread OP.

>>11082488
>What the hell do you mean your not supposed to keep your cash (money) in liquid cash?
you're should want to get the best possible return on your money you can get, and only keep enough liquid cash on hand for daily spending and emergencies.
>Why is the govt controlled institutions encouraging investment? But not encouraging savings too?
investments are savings. whether that be stocks, bonds, or in yourself in the form of education or assets (house, car, etc).
>They aren't suppoSed to be involved in this shit. Where does it say in the first constitution that govt is supposed to encourage investment?
well, paving roads and putting out fires isn't in the constitution either. economic and monetary policy is something the founding fathers had to tackle as well.

>>11082572
see
>>11081578

>>11082548
Of course gold fluctuates with usd value.

How much was a footlong subway sub in 1998? How much is it today... now compare the gold prices between now and then

>>11082605
LOL investments are savings.

If I put 1k into Amazon stock and Amazon loses 25% of its value I lost fiat. That isn't savings. Savings you can't lose stocks you can

>>11082605
Since when do we need the govt to pave roads and put out fires?

You think roads can't be paved and fires can't be put out without govt doing it?

>>11082605
Cars aren't savings. Cars are liabilities dude.

>>11082605
Moreover it's the govt that just sub contracts the work out it's not the fucking govt paving the roads

>>11082605
And yes you obv can put your money into investments to get a return but that's different than savings or putting your savings in gold to have real savings.

Your not supposed to have 100% of your wealth in the fucking stock market. Because the dollar can implode and stocks are artificially inflated by cheap money. There's a risk. No risk in gold

>>11083181
Yeah and if you put 1k in gold and it drops 50% that's good for the economy according to you. What a hypocrite.

Bitcoin is the better Gold

>>11081496
>>11081432
Why wouldn't purchasing power grow? As technology progresses, material goods just get cheaper and cheaper. The price of a car in gold has gone down incredibly, all thanks to the free market. Therefore, you have more power with the same amount of money.

>>11081523
Iam the earlier asteroid mining guy, yes it will happen in the future 100%. Maybe in 50 years maybe later but it will happen

You sound like those people who said humans will never fly.

>>11081432
> Some of you were sayifbin
Buy BCH or KYS. It's happening in 16 hours.

>>11083203
>No risk in gold
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_revolution
>Because the dollar can implode and stocks are artificially inflated by cheap money
where do these conspiracy theories even come from? the same people that are trying to sell you gold?
>>11083181
>LOL investments are savings.
sure, it's confusing that the same word different meanings in different contexts. but in terms of finance, investments bought with the intention of term appreciations are considered savings.

>>11083418
What conspiracy theories? Interest rates were artificially suppressed for the last fricken decade at 0%! 25 years ago if you had told someone we should or would have rates at 0% let alone for an entire decade you would have been put in a straight jacket and thrown in a mental institution.

Not sure where you have been the last decade.

Also.... everyone sells everyone everything. Stock brokers sell you stocks right? Do you say... oh he's just trying to sell me a stock? No you don't.

And at least the gold dealer is selling you a real asset that and physical wealth.

What you don't understand is.... when you but gold you aren't really buying gold... all you are doing is transferring your wealth from worthless paper to an actual store of value. Your in essence becoming your own bank.

You understand that right?

>>11083263
Its gold that gave you the free market. You can't have freedom and prosperity when your currency is a debt instrument. Everyone is in debt up to their eyeballs.

Nobody owns their fucking car they are all making monthly payments.

Don't you see these articles nowadays that like half the country doesn't even have 500$ savings in their bank? Or that they are one emergency away from bankruptcy. Most of the country is living paycheck to paycheck.

>>11083224
Paper price of gold does NOT matter bro. Did gold all of a sudden become valuable when the dollar was created? No. It didn't. It's been money for milennia. So why in the heck would you be valuing gold in terms of worthless fiat paper?

The dollar doesn't give value to gold my friend!

Yes the price is manipulated now because of comex and naked short selling so the price you see is the false paper price.

So if you buy an ounce of gold and are forced to sell because you need to pay bills you can lose fiat that you had initially put into it... BUT.... you are buying gold in the first place because you want wealth and money for when fiat fails and convert to the new currency and make a killing after the deflationary collapse.

Prices aren't dropping at all. There will be a deflationary colllase and that's when you pick up assets for pennies on the dollar for what it cost you to accumulate that gold in the fiat paradigm

>>11083444
>What conspiracy theories?
the idea that inflation is created to steal money and that the dollar is going to implode.
>Interest rates were artificially suppressed for the last fricken decade at 0%
I assume you're referring to the federal fund rate. don't know why you think it's being suppressed, there's no natural interest rate.
>all you are doing is transferring your wealth from worthless paper to an actual store of value
why do you think a rock as more value than paper. governments can control the supply of gold and silver just as they can print money
the period of history when countries needed import more precious metals to increase their money supply as their economies expanded were out right chaos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_silver_trade_from_the_16th_to_18th_centuries

>>11083444
>Stock brokers sell you stocks right?
also people don't buy stocks through brokers anymore. there's no conflict of interest there

hey goldanon
just answer me one question
how are you going to sell gold to zoomers?

I await your answer

Bump so I can eat my dinner and then come back and read this thread a bit later and laugh at you, OP.

>>11081930
why do people pay for anal toys if its not a stire of value and not money?

gold is a yellow rock that has no value. literal boomertech
prove me wrong you cant

>>11082364
I thought about it too, contain it in one thread up all the time.

The daily PM discussion. Holding a friction of your portfolio in Au and Ag wont hurt anyone. But everyone just thinks in black and white, 0 and 1 systems.

>>11084105
it's not boomer tech it's stone age tech bitcoin is boomer tech

>>11084301
there are 2 types of hardcore shills
> asteroid mining will bring in 1000k tons of silver and gold each year starting 2019 to earth ezpz
and
> CANNED BEANS AND AMMO! EVERYTHING ELSE IS STOOPID!

some % in PM
some % in crypto
some % in stocks / ETFs
some preserved food, weapons and ammo

What is so hard to accept that.
These guys must be paid shills. Else it is pretty sad how they waste their time hating on something they "don't care about".

>>11084301
a fraction is pointless if you like shiny things go ahead but it doesn't matter

>>11084354
Exactly my point. Gold has history and has shown to be a good hedge in financial crises. Should it be treated like an investment? Obviously not...that's

>some % in crypto
>some % in stocks / ETFs

Whatever..this will be another 300 reply thread with back and forward insults

>>11084354
i'm pretty sure anyone who ever held pms and not an utter tard hates them by now. i thought it was smart when i had my first savings and met face to face with inflation. now i know better. pms are shit.

>>11081432
You got schooled in the other thread but it all just enters one of your ears and exits the other. You persist with your shit arguments and ignorance. You cannot expect to store value of labor for 100 years because that labor loses value with time because of automation and other increases in productivity.
You cannot disagree that what actually holds value is the goods you consume. You accumulate all that gold so in the future you will be able to exchange it for goods.
Now if goods get cheaper to produce, are therefore mass produced, and you somehow stored wealth without depreciation throughout the decades, you'd be getting more goods for the same amount. Which means you are being rewarded just for holding that gold/whatever store of value. Because that store of value now buys you more goods because of increases in productivity. Again, why should you be rewarded for holding metals? Makes no sense. You are not contributing to such increases in productivity. You are not contributing with investments in companies.
Say you 'stored' the value of a week of labor from 100 years ago, in the form of goods that last 100 years. Since we mass produce goods now, those goods are worth less. Why should it be any different for gold?

>If I work in 1920 at a decent jov and earn 20$ or 1 ounce of gold in a week.... that sweat equity I put in for a week isn't supposed to buy me fucking 15 suits 100 years in the future
Precisely, because nothing can actually store value for 100 years. If you were able to buy 15 suits today with what in 1920 bought you 1, you'd be perfectly storing value, but that doesnt happen. If with 1 ounce in 1920 you bought 1 suit and today suit production ramped up and 1 ounce still buys you 1 suit, your gold has depreciated in value and rightly so. Why? Because your week of labor in 1920 means shit today with mass production.
TLDR The value of your work/labor also depreciates with time due to increases in productivity. There is no way to store it.

>>11083553
Why do I think I rare earth metal has more value that fucking paper?

Are you really asking that question?

>>11083553
Yes... inflation is destruction of wealth.

100k went a lot further in 1981 than it does today. Tell me what's happening? Why are my dollars losing value that I earned?

Do you think it's just magic tha prices increase?

Inflation means higher prices.... higher prices are bad for everyone.

>>11083553
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.... I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

- Thomas Jefferson

>>11084592
Increase in production has nothing to do with that weekly salary you earned in 1920.

You worked for a fucking week in 1920. You made 20$ or an ounce of gold. You can now buy a nice suit.

Instead of buying the suit.... you decide to be cryogenically frozen for 100 years. You wake up 100 years later and you can still buy that suit you wanted to buy before you were cryogenically frozen 100 years earlier with that ounce of gold

>>11084861
>inflation is destruction of wealth
not really it's the depreciation of fiat money it doesn't destroy wealth unless you are a retard.

>>11084881
yeah but the suit you get now is a hundred times cheaper suit than you could have back then. how hard is that to understand? let's say you try to buy the same suit preserved in perfect condition for 100 years today... you couldn't fucking buy it with your gold. ever.

>>11084592
And wtf so you mean why should one be rewarded for owning metals?

What in the fuck is wrong with your brains?

You people have been absolutely brainwashed by shorty publi schools to be against saving money. You are sick in the head.

You fucking work and you want to save your fucking money and not throw it in the rigged stock market. The dollar isn't backed by gold anymore so your savings gets devalued. And gold is real savings to save the money and store it from your hard work.

Some people don't want to gamble in the fucking stock market. What if someone just wants to save 90% of their money and not have inflation destroy the value of your money?

Prices are going up! That's BAD. I want to save at least half my money. But I can't save in dollars because they steal my wealth. Gold prevents them from stealing my wealth.

You people are fucked in the head. You don't know what savings is and you are actually against savings. Your brain is infected.

>>11084893
Wtf are you talking about? If I earned 8$ an hour in 1960 which was good income... and I worked for a year.... and I stuck my money in a safety deposit box and then took that cash out today.... it will now buy me like 1/20th of what it could buy me when I earned it...

My wealth was STOLEN

>>11084906
No it isnt. A nice sleek suit is about 1200$. Which equals a gold ounce.

A nice sleek suit back then equaled 20$ back then or a gold ounce

>>11084881
You must be trolling or simply legit retarded.
Say you had 2 ounces in 1920. You buy OIL with one and keep the other. You are cryogenically frozen with both your OIL and your remaining ounce.
You wake up in 2018. You want to exchange that oil for gold, will you get your ounce back? No, you shouldnt because oil production has ramped up.
Now according to you, you should be getting the same oil as in 1920 with the ounce you kept. Instead you get way more, why? Production increased, oil got cheaper. You were rewarded for holding a piece of shiny metal. Is that the function of money according to you? That sounds more like an investment than money doesnt it? Because you are getting more goods for the same amount.
Money should only be a means for exchange, it should NEVER be a merchandise that fluctuates in value. If gold is money but with time its getting you more goods, then its appreciating money, you are encouraged not to spend it.

>>11084531
Pm's are fuckig wealth and money.

If you had prior knowledge the dollar was going to fail next week. You'd be shoveling your money into gold.

Now the dollar might not fail for another 50 years. But if you keep in gold your wealth will be protected

>>11084949
again if you had a suit you bought with 1 gold piece a 100 years ago and a gold piece both in mint condition the suit would be worth a hundred times more. this is not hard to understand. much more labor and much more expensive labor went into that suit than what you buy today.

>>11084938
that's not wealth that's just cash.

>>11084949
Just ignore that guy ZjT67Z0a.
He is posting around and not answering the real question.
Going full tard shilling in hope that other anons won't follow this thread and abandon it.

Paid shills.
Or else a really sad life wasting time in such a way which could be used for stuff improving his life.

>>11084855
yes, that's what I'm asking.
also gold isn't a rare earth metal
>>11084861
wealth is what you create with your time, money is a medium of exchange between giving that wealth to someone, and getting say, groceries from someone else. it's a tool for facilitating exchange, so you don't have to trade two things directly, you're not supposed to hold on to it directly long term.
also inflation also means higher wages
>>11084866
he never said that:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bank-shot-2/
"The States should be applied to, to transfer the right of issuing circulating paper to Congress exclusively"
- Actually Tomas Jefferson

>>11084997
yeah lol you retarded mongrel what am i paid to shill you imbecile?

>>11084969
I'm not really following what you are saying here with respect to oil. I don't think you can really use oil to compare here because we are on a petrodollar system.

So even tho I don't completely understand what you are saying but even if you are right this example is not a good example because again petrodollar is the system.

>>11084924
> wtf so you mean why should one be rewarded for owning metals?
Exactly what you read. If you are getting more goods just for holding you are being rewarded. Thats not savings. Because you are enjoying the benefits of technology and mass production without contributing yourself.
There is no such thing as savings since whatever you use to store value will naturally depreciate when all the goods get cheaper to produce. GOODS. Which is what is valuable, its what you want. Your gold or fiat is useless if its not exchanged for goods.
>You fucking work and you want to save your fucking money and not throw it in the rigged stock market.
Well you fucking can't buddy. Thats the real world. If in 1900 we produced 10 tons of vegetable oil and consumed 5 and in 2000 we produce 500 tons and consume 100, there is surplus vegetable oil, its cheaper. Say your 'store of value' bought you 1 ton of vegetable oil in 1900, and in 2000 still buys you 1 ton of vegetable oil. Did you really store your value? When everyone is buying vegetable for the cheap? Your ton is not worth the same in 2000 than in 1920. Its not rocket science.
>What if someone just wants to save 90% of their money and not have inflation destroy the value of your money?
There is just no way of doing it even if we had no inflation. By the simple fact that productivity increases, the work you did to save that is worth less the more time passes.
>Prices are going up! That's BAD.
It wouldnt be bad if wages increased in proportion brainlet. You wouldnt notice the 'badness'.
>You people are fucked in the head.
No we have a brain unlike you, who havent even remotely given this deep thought. You ignore production in all your arguments like the brainlet you are

>>11085017
Then use whatever good, oil, wood, anything that has increased production in the XX century. I used vegetable oil in the last post. Same applies

>>11085010
Why are you wasting your time on something you hate?
What do you gain by doing this?
That time could be used for tons of better things.

>>11085007
How do I save? Tell me

>>11085021
What if I want to save my money?!?!?!

>>11084971
gold can be part of wealth but it's the worst performing asset you will ever have. money in bills not invested is not wealth, shares and business is wealth and real estate.

>>11085029
well i don't hate gold and silver that's not true i hate the retarded fucks that spout shit about it being money and also the retarded fuckers that claim they are a store of value and inflation proof. both are wrong and provably so. yet these threads keep popping up.

>>11084977
Precisely, the value of labor goes down with time. That suit in 1900 took a lot more effort than a suit today. Yet this dude argues that since the gold ounce is buying you the same suit today, it has the same value.

>>11085038
YOU CANT. How did you earn that money? Working a job most likely. Is the work you do today as valuable as it will be 30 years from now? No it fucking isnt. So why do you expect those savings to buy you more stuff in 30 years? It will be buying you the same, but since production will likely have increased at least fivefold, the stuff you are buying is worth less and rightly so

>>11085021
>Prices are going up! That's BAD.
It wouldnt be bad if wages increased in proportion brainlet. You wouldnt notice the 'badness'.

Ok I understand it wouldn't be bad if wages increased in proportion. So you are trying to fix a problem, when you could just address the issue of prices rising in the first place.

if prices weren't rising in the first place then you wouldn't need rising wages.... or better yet...... prices stay the same and your wages go up or prices go down and you have a higher standard of living.

You understand that a min wage earner had about twice the purchasing power under a gold standard than a min wager earner has today right?

>>11084592
Most goodds produced before automation were higher quality and are valued by collectors and antiquers.

>>11085033
if your fixated on the idea that savings should have zero risk, buy treasury bonds. they at least keep up with inflation as long as you willing to lock up your money for long enough and are guaranteed.
if you can weather a bit of volatility then contribute to your 401k and buy index funds and let your money work for you.

>>11085070
Wtf are you talking about you can't save?

Answer me this question..... if you knew the dollar was going to collapse next week would you move any money into gold? Yes or no?

>>11085038
Now if you really, really want to save that money or store that value. So that you enjoy the benefits of increased production in the future. You either start your business or invest in the stock market, in companies involved in such mass production. Yes the stocks you bought could crash or whatever. But you're not supposed to just buy and forget it for 50 years. You would diversify and move your money into relevant stocks for the epoch.
There is no way to STORE and FORGET for decades without it depreciating, as it should be.

>>11085082
In a number of cases yes. But take for example a car. You cant compare a 1920 car to today advanced cars..

>>11085084
I'm worried about the dollar failing. Treasury bonds won't do shit for me in that scenario.

You people need to recognize that you are literally the first group of people in human history that has been anti gold. If you went back in time at any point or even in much of the non western world today...

People would fucking think you are fucked in the head. You've been brainwashed in shitty govt schools.

There's a reason our founders didn't put a right to education in the constitution because they knew if govt got a hold of education they'd end up so retarded like you guys are who are actually anti gold. Something nobody has ever been going back hundreds and thousands of years.

You've been brainwashed into a debt usrury currency system

>>11085099
Ok and how do I save my money that I earned in that business or stock market???

I make 10 million dollars in the stock market. How the fuck do I SAVE IT??

Nobody is saying don't invest you moron. How do I save the fuckinf money I earn without it being devalued?

>>11085099
Also... what if I don't want to invest in the fucking stock market?

I work hard for my money... and I want to fucking save it and not gamble in the stock market. I want to SAVE my money.

>>11085078
The problem is we print more money than production increases, ie money creation is not correlated to the productivity of your country. Because in the current fiat system money is created as debt and lent with interest, the banksters are treating money as a merchandise when they lend it and charge interest. Since they are making money with money without necessarily increasing production of goods.
>if prices weren't rising in the first place then you wouldn't need rising wages
Correct. If we only created money in relation to goods being produced then prices and wages would remain pretty stable, with minor fluctuations due to supply and demand.
>You understand that a min wage earner had about twice the purchasing power under a gold standard than a min wager earner has today right?
The value of the labor of min wage earner during the gold standard was greater than today because we didnt have machines mass producing.
>if you knew the dollar was going to collapse next week would you move any money into gold?
No, i would buy as many goods as possible. Since that would mean mass chaos in the streets. More important than goods is the people you know, if they have safe places to stay far from cities, etc.

>>11085084
Fuck your index funds and 401k. If that's what you want to do go s fucking head.

I want to save my fucking money I earn. Are you dense in the fucking head? How do I save my money. I don't want my fucking money to work for me. I want to save it and not have my wealth stolen through inflation!

THATS what's gold is for. Real savings!

>>11085123
You cant take those 10M out of the stock market and expect them to have the same purchasing power 20 years down the road, EVEN if there was no inflation. Because increases in mass production mean the goods you'd get for those 10M today, are not worth the same in 20 years, even if there was 0 inflation. Naturally the goods will get cheaper, and if there was no inflation your 10M would be buying more goods, rewarding you just for holding and not contributing in any way to the economy.
YOU CANT STORE YOUR VALUE BECAUSE PRODUCTION MAKES THE VALUE YOU STORED MEAN LESS WITH TIME.

>>11085110
>I'm worried about the dollar failing.
you still got shittons of options aside from gold.

>>11085110
>You people need to recognize that you are literally the first group of people in human history that has been anti gold.
I already told you in that other thread, like 3 times you ignored it. Ancient civs didnt see gold as you do. They used it mostly for jewelry and decoration, NEVER as money. It was the jew who convinced the world gold was anything less than decorative. Thats how they grew inmensely powerful

>>11085139
You have a million dollars. The dollar is going to collapse next week. Wtf are you going to do? Buy a million dollars worth of ammo and canned food? Your a fucking liar. Plus a dollar collapse will also bring in a new currency. Which is what gold is for too.

Nobody is saying prepping is bad if a dollar collapse is coming but your tucked in the head if you wouldn't buy any gold. That's like saying you don't want an air tank when you are going to be underwater for 15 mins. It's nonsensical.


Value of labor isn't less today than under a gold standard. Someone working a fcking cash register in 1960 is the same as someone working a cash register today.

In 1964 a min wage earner made $1.25 so that min wage earrner could purchase an ounce of gold at 35$ after only a week of working. Today min wage is 9$ and gold is 1200$ so it takes that min wage earner an entire month to purchase that same ounce of gold a min wage earner could purchase after only a week 60 years ago

>>11085177
Anything more*

>>11085175
Like?

>>11085188
>You have a million dollars.
>but your tucked in the head if you wouldn't buy any gold.
I would buy LAND. The only thing that is guaranteed to preserve your value. Because increases in production do not affect the value of land. Increases in population make it worth more, even moreso if it holds resources.
>Someone working a fcking cash register in 1960 is the same as someone working a cash register today.
WRONG. A cash register in the 60s had to calculate all sorts of things. Today they put some numbers on a computer and print piece of paper, the work they do is MUCH less demanding

>>11085177
Gold is a basis of value. It measures value. That's what money does. It's a barometer to measure value.

>>11085215
yeah land is what you live on.
Land is not money. You buy land with money. And in a dollar collapse you'll be able to buy land for pennies on the dollar for what it cost you to accumulate that gold in the fiat paradigm.

That's the entire point of buying gold dude. Why do you think people buy gold to begin with? You think they are buying a gold coin for $1200 for no reason?

>>11085215
Also... the housing market collapsed remember? so people who bought land or homes in 2007 got fucked.

>>11081432
Look kiddo

The only reason anyone would be buying physical gold/silver is that they are comfortable with their portfolio, don't need cash on hand and don't want to get stung by taxes/devaluing fiat.

Doomsayers and stackers pouring everything into PMs are utterly delusional and WILL sell at a loss when they need liquid cash. Around 5-10% exposure is totally fine.

>>11085200
no matter how low the dollar goes stocks by default rise in price to compensate any loss and some more automatically. real estate also. any purchasing power loss of the dollar is automatically offset by the rise in prices. real estate can be a money producing asset aside from keeping and increasing in value. then there are the foreign currencies if you want to hold cash, just diversify from the dollar. in depression cash is king if a depression coincides with the dollar losing value then eur chf and yen will compensate it nicely. then there is bitcoin which is like gold only better in every which way and you can buy and sell without paying out of your ass it's also pretty irs proof and impossible to confiscate. so as an escape vehicle gold is ancient tech. but sure enough bitcoin is more risky.once you are at the point of losing everything it will look like a damn good option. only it will be too late.

it would really take an apocalyptic scenario for gold to have a brief shine as things are now.

>>11085238
They are in profit again, did you miss the bull run?

>>11085110
>I'm worried about the dollar failing. Treasury bonds won't do shit for me in that scenario.
you mean a total collapse of government? I'd sooner buy a truck, gas, guns, and ammo. and get the hell out of dodge. gold is heavy as fuck and no government means no law enforcement to protect it for me.
>You people need to recognize that you are literally the first group of people in human history that has been anti gold
you don't read much history do you? not everybody was crazy about lugging rocks around to buy stuff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar#Bankers

>>11085144
why are you so fixated on the concept of "real savings"? what's even the end goal you have in mind? to die with your gold in your coffin?

>>11085244
Yeah exactly ..... so you agree with me.

I understand that in the fiat paradigm is someone doesn't have that much money and they buy gold and the PAPER manipulated price of gold goes down and they have to sell that they lose fiat when they sell back.

But you just said that what I've been saying is correct. Gold is savings. It protects you from the Jew devaluing our currency to steal our wealth.... and if I have 10 million in the bank it's obviously smart to put 20% into gold considering we are 21 trillion in debt.

And in a fiat collapse you actually don't even need much. As little as 2-300 ounces of silver and 10 ounces of gold will be a small fortune in a gold revaluation to purge all the debt from the system

>>11085231
I would never give you my land for your shitty gold.
>Gold is a basis of value.
What is the basis of value or considered money has changed many times in different societies. What people agree on in exchange for goods and services can change. Tomorrow it may be crypto. The only reason someone would accept your gold in exchange for something, is if they later can exchange that gold for other goods/services. Thats what fiat is for too, but its more convenient than using a stupid metal. Crypto once it improves will be more convenient than cash. Just the way things are, its called progress. Money will be digitalized.
Now, the fact that fiat inflates is not a fault with fiat itself but the fact its printed beyond the productive capacity of your country.
If we made a crypto that was only created when new goods come into the economy, it would instantly become the new money and everyone would forget about both fiat AND gold.

>>11085244
>5-10% exposure is totally fine
it's fine but does it actually matter?
you save 5% of your wealth it is now worth 15% okay but you lost everything else because all has gone to shits (insert here some random tinfoil hat doomsday scenario) you are utterly fucked. but if you only lost like 50% of your wealth in stocks and cash then what the fuck does gold exposure matter exactly? in a scenario like that actually selling gold will be at a huge discount. buying would be hard because of increased demand but selling also hard because of uncertainty. and it's entirely possible that cryptos adoption will fucking explode like in any south american shithole where the currency gone to shits. they don't pay with gold for toilet paper and bottled water.

>>11085250
Yeah they are only in the profit again because interest rates have been criminally suppressed at 0% for almost a decade.

What causes the 2008 collapse? Bush and Greenspan artificially suppressed interest rates at 1%. And it popped.

And what did Obama and bernake do? The exact same thing as bush and Greenspan except on a grander scale with 0% interest rates. And you think this doesn't end badly? It's going to end MUCH worse than the 2008 collapse

>>11085238
Only if they sold, brainlet

>>11085273
When there's a dollar collapse and foreclosures All over the place and people can't eat because their dollars are worthless, and you have an overnight gold revaluation they'll be selling you their house for 1 single ounce of gold.

You people don't understand that EVERYTHING is overvalued because of fiat. And a deflationary COLLAPSE WILL happen.

The thing about the stock market is not about being in it but knowing when to get the fuck out

>>11085277
Yes 5-10% exposure is fine. BecAuse in a fiat collapse we will have to go back to silver and gold as a basis for value.

A days wage used to be a silver piece the size of a silver dime for most
Of human history.

If you buy a mere 500 ounces of silver today for 7k that would be the equivalent of 7,000 days of working pre fiat. Since 14 silver dimes equals 1 ounce. And 14 silver dimes would have equaled 2 weeks of work

>>11085299
>muh gold muh fiat
its obvious we are arguing at different levels here. You ignored all the explanations for what you stated in the OP, why there is no such thing as a store of value, why you cant save for decades, you just repeat muh gold is money muh fiat is scam like a broken record. There is no point in trying to explain things to you. You want to be rewarded just for holding a metal. You want the benefits of increased production of goods without putting any effort. You want shit to collapse so you buy everything with your metal. Rewarded for being a useless cunt. Kill yourself

>>11085244
Yes, like what I said -> >>11084354
Having some money in PM which you do not might need right now.
Money you can put aside that you won't need for years.
People always say "diversify", so why not have some oz gold and silver too?
That's all I'm saying.

Going all-in into one thing is stupid.
Going into full "PMs are bullshit and anyone having some is an idiot" mode is idiotic too.
It's either 0 or 1 with these shills.

>>11085299
>people can't eat
>they'll be selling you their house for 1 single ounce of gold.
do you realize how retarded you sound?

>>11085326
Like I said.... 20$ = 1 oz of gold in 1920 both equaled a good weekly salary.

Today that gold ounce still buys you a nice suit just like it did 100 years ago.

And that 20$ buys you jack shit today

>>11085345
back to square one, completely ignoring all explanations. You dont want to learn. You dont want to even understand what other people are telling you. You put your fingers in your ears and shout lalala. Holy fucking hell its been 3 threads now and you just dont get it. Fucking kill yourself seriously

>>11085333
I'm not saying 100% gold.

I'm not saying don't fucking invest in the stock market.

My premise is why the fuck are prices rising? They are rising because our wealth is being stolen because we aren't on a gold standard anymore.

I shouldn't have to throw my money all in the stock market, money I earned.... in order to beat inflation.

Inflation is the fucking problem

>>11085345
but but but even though you get the same thing, the work behind that good is different so that argument doesn't count!1!!!!

>>11085333
They would likely argue its "board culture" in this post bitconnnect world.

>>11085360
You are the one who doesn't want to learn! In the constitution... only gold and silver shall be legsl tender.

I'm learning from the most brilliant political minds in world history. Our founders.

So your basically saying your smarter then our founders

>>11085368
Fine the work behind it is different. But that doesn't mean that that gold ounce should buy me 18 suits 100 years later in order for my value to be stored. It's not fucking rocket scientist tier labor in order to make a fucking suit.

Maybe you can say that gold ounce should be able to buy you 1.5 suits today if I go with your theory. Which is still a good store of value, especially compared to the dollar since that 20$ doesn't buy you jack shit in comparison.

>>11085313
>BecAuse in a fiat collapse we will have to go back to silver and gold as a basis for value.
that's a false statement.
>A days wage used to be
irrelevant truly totally different supply and demand for gold today

also a bunch of speculation presented as fact. that's your problem you don't attach probability to your braindead cultist statements. it can happen sure but it's extremely unlikely. and even then you barely gain anything compared to what you lose so in the end it's a meh option.

>>11085395
Dude I was joking and just answered in the retarded way as that yellow shill is posting.
I'm mostly on your side.

>>11085337
Yes... in Venezuela where their currency has collapsed 1 single ounce of silver buys you 3-4 months of food on the black market.

The usd value of silver is 14$.... 14$ barely buys you lunch at a bar hit when fiat fails that silver ounce buys you a shit ton of food.

And it makes sense... because like I said.... a silver dime used to be a days wage. So if you went back 270 years ago before fiat.... and worked for 14 days (and 14 silver dimes = one ounce) it totally makes sense that if you saved up two weeks worth of work that you'd be able to buy 3-4 months worth of food

>>11085333
>People always say "diversify", so why not have some oz gold and silver too?
because in the vast majority of the probabilities about the future events it's literally throwing money out the window and most people here consider that retarded. not all money mind you just some of what you put in to that crap.

>>11085379
The founders were smart enough to adapt to change. They wouldnt be using gold and silver today i fucking guarantee it.
You have shown in three threads you havent even finished school. You lack basic reasoning skills. You use circular reasoning. Probably suck at math too.

>>11085367
>Inflation is the fucking problem
Yes thats the fucking problem, which is solved by a labor backed currency, ie no unit of currency is created if its not backed by say 1 hour of wage, or X amount of goods produced. NOT GOLD. Gold is 90% or more in the hands of jews. They can cut supply and make it worth more to fit whatever agenda they have.
Even if we had ZERO inflation, you'd still wouldnt be able to save your money for more than a decade because increase in production means mass availability of goods, meaning your savings are buying you more stuff the more time passes. Meaning you would be rewarded (can buy more goods) just by having money sitting there doing nothing, which is not what you want to encourage. You want people to USE those savings ie INVEST.
Why do i even fucking bother i explained this to you like 20 times already you are incredibly stubborn

>>11085411
My bad

>>11085424
in venezuela you can get a hooker suck your dick for a month straight for $1

>>11085405
False statement? Then how do you value goods after a fiat collapse?

>>11085441
Yeah and? And you can buy 3-4 months worth of food on the black market for one ounce of silver. You think farmers are going to except worthless bolivars or real sound money?

>>11085435
Our founders weren't kikes

>>11085435
That's the problem. The schools. They don't teach you that gold is real savings

>>11085424
>1 ounce bought you 3-4 months of food 250 years ago, it buys you the same today even though we produce 10000 times the amount of food. We consume more but there is more surplus. The production/consumption ratio. LEARN IT BRAINLET. USE YOUR GODDAMN BRAIN AND STOP LISTENTING TO GOLD RETARDS

>>11085443
the usual thing that happens is foreign currency is used. the euros and us dollar are prime example that whenever the national currency fails in a country people only accept these as cash. so if the dollar fails most likely the euros will be the most widely accepted money but like is said chf and yen would be good also.

it's not like fiat money magically disappear after one collapses. and they quickly start printing an other one after a facade of change in regime. since people do want to use fiat money they prefer that to just about anything else. you can sell gold in an environment like that but you will never get the fair value out of it. it's cumbersome.

most countries where war raveged the financial system and the national currency collapsed adopted the usd and did barter. booze and cigarettes to a degree took the role of money. i never heard of a single incident where silver or gold was adopted. no. lately in south america cryptos are also used. they are a big thing in india also where the government tries to stomp out privare gold ownership.

>>11085457
>>11085466
these are your counter arguments? man you just suck at this. You can tell you havent analized even 10 seconds what ive been telling you on 3 threads already.

>>11085452
>And you can buy 3-4 months worth of food on the black market for one ounce of silver.
1 oz of silver is what like $14 now?
for 4 us dollars you can buy the same amount of food. ridiculous how bad these metal trinkets perform even in a crisis.

>>11085471
The amount of food produced is irrelevant. People eat the same amount today as they did 250 years ago.

In 1990 a loaf of fucking bread cost 89 fucking cents dumbass. Today a lot of bread is 3$

That price change in less than 30 years doesn't have anything to do with production of bread moron

>>11085379
coming form someone who misquoted them back here >>11084866
wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of your knowledge came from gold salesmen feeding you misinformation
>>11085452
I'd like to see someone try buying groceries with strait up gold.
black market food is a thing?

>>11085486
Loaf of bread was 89 cents in 1990. Today its 3$.

This huge price change has nothing to do with bread production increases

>>11085498
lol he's brainlet. Black markets come to life when there's shortages. Fucking moron

>>11085506
how the fuck do you think that is a reply to what i posted? i told you that a piece of silver in venezuela only worth $4 right now. even tho you can only buy it for $14. then you come tom me with inflation once again. try to grow a braincell!

>>11085498
There is no food on the shelves dumbass.

>>11085521
I don't know what you are saying here. Clarify

>>11085496
>>11085506
the price increase is due to inflation. If there was ZERO inflation and production of bread increased, the price would go down. Its basic economic principles, the fact you are having such a hard time understanding them makes me realize im arguing with a literal monkey.
Keep watching those youtube videos burger, thats all you're good for

>>11085530
i'm saying to actually read the fucking post that you reply to. and then try to reply.

>>11081432
Gold is a hedge not an investment.
/thread

>>11085590
i have been telling people to look at gold as insurance against a specific scenario and like all insurance gold costs you money. it's arguable that insurance is never really worth it unless you are more sure of an incidence than what the insurance company recons. (ie you do insurance fraud).

>>11081452
fake and gay
also
platinum is three years more oversold
what i think will happen is that gold and silver will drop to become proportionally more in line w platinum (ie theyre gonna go down fucking hard).

after this it will be time to buy platinum if you wish to hold physical metals

but lets just get one thing straight.
no one here is INVESTING in gold/silver etc
everyone is merely SPECULATING that it will go up. especially with commodities, one of the things you have to remember is that its a big market and if small specs are the only ones buying, its NOT going up (this is precious metals reality currently)

so now we can hopefully dispel any myths of INVESTING in precious metals which usually saturate these threads, and talk candidly of the commodity (which will continue going down)

>>11085557
dude doesnt read, doesnt grasp what you tell to him. He has no intention to understand any concept other than muh gold is the only real sound money. Im not gonna bother anymore..

>>11085514
those would still be normal markets. black markets imply the translations are illegal for some reason
otherwise I can't even start to imagine the paranoid world inside your head.

>>11085496
pic related. the price of bread more or less doubled since 1990. but guess what else roughly doubled in the US during that time? minimum wage.
still kind of depressing. doesn't help that one of two political parties believe minimum wage is unwarranted government influence.

>>11085626
he sounds like someone that watched mike malooney for a month straight

>>11085626
I'm pretty sure it's just a gold shill. maybe an insane person. I'm still having fun with it.

>>11083267
>>>11081452
it wont happen in 50 years lmao you absolute brainlet.

we aren't even driving electrical cars yet though the technique was available 20 years ago.

asteroid mining will be in 200 or more years from now.

>>11085590
its one of the poorer hedges however, because in the event it actually starts saving you from hyper inflation, the main HODLers (central banks) will indefinitely short it and make BUNDLES of cash while transferring out into some foreign currency/other commodity thats not blowing up

>>11085626
just remember that this is a SUREFIRE sign to make some money on gold/silver crashing out some more
goldbugs of this caliber ALWAYS appear at the local peaks of the trend

>>11085616
forgot pic
long plat when you see dips, keep a rolling short on silver/gold
simple
been doing this for months now

so are we just gonna ignore the fact that the gold price is literally determined by the london gold fixing exchange... an entity controlled by the rothschilds? that is literally like coinbase determining the price of bitcoin and all other exchanges following suit. these silly goyim just never learn...

>>11083267
it will probably happen a lot later because earth is chock full of gold and silver compared to most of the universe. it's scarcity is overstated by gold bugs it's plenty abundant right fucking here. what is harder anons? mine the ocean floor or go into space and struggle with the gravity well up and down to mine the fucking thing in the solar system where getting around takes ages?

>>11085685
were gonna ignore absolutely everything because this is a goldbug thread senpai

>>11085679
>>11085685
OP absolutely btfo with this and you didnt even have to bring up my arguments. Whats your answer to this OP? Rothschilds know whats up? The jews know what real money is ? lmao

>>11085705
even just GOING to the ocean floor is way harder than going to space
let alone actually mining down there
at least in space you could just pop on a space suit and go work out there

that deep in the ocean you need absolute feats of engineering that we dont have yet to even be able to exist with out being crushed

>>11085737
>even just GOING to the ocean floor is way harder than going to space
not really it's actually something we can achieve way more cost efficiently thanks to buoyancy. takes about almost zero energy.

>>11085737
>that deep
don't have to be going that deep, cause the vulcanic activity is between plates and pushing up...
that's where we want to go not in the trench mariana.

>>11085788
yeah senpai but youre forgetting about the retarded amount of pressure
youd have to build some fancy things to be able to keep something down there long enough to even work, and even then it would be too risky for humans. youd need to use robots, which presents its own problems. and the wear and tear of being down at that pressure is actually HARDER on the device than being pressurized in space is

>>11085808
>but youre forgetting about the retarded amount of pressure
it's not that bad as you make it out to be. nothing we haven't made before. the difference is how big we can build the things that go down there and how big the things we can build that go up to orbit and beyond. one scales pretty well the other doesn't. the shell mass required to withstand pressure scales x^2 with x^3 mass the amount of fuel required to move things up and down is x^3. there is no comparison how much easier is to achieve ocean floor mining than space mining on large scale.

>>11085616
Cringed at your retardation.

Stay poor faggot, I'll just keep stacking silver and buy you your wife and children as slaves once the market crashes

>>11085807
>not in the trench mariana
i wanna go to the marianas trench desu
fuck gold, fuck space, i wanna see some actual aliens desu

>>11085842
youre forgetting the literal monsters who will defend their homeland to the death from the invaders from the surface world

>>11085847
please do
keep us updated too senpai. post pics of your silver stack and you flexing. i enjoy derailing your ilks threads

>>11085861
>youre forgetting the literal monsters who will defend their homeland to the death from the invaders from the surface world
yeah... there is nothing i can say about that

>>11085891
you think this fucker is gonna let you ANYWHERE near his wife and kids?
think again senpai

>>11082117

>Physical gold provides wealth preservation and portfolio protection against the depreciating dollar

You know gold and EURUSD have over 95% positive correlation right? What does that mean?

Well, every time $ gets stronger, gold also falls down and vice versa. Therefore, gold is also a great protection against dollar inflating.

>>11086695
Screencapped, laughing at your stupidity

>>11085685
Rothschields
so... it's the jews again?

meanwhile gold continues to dump! buttt muh shiney rocks

>>11085685
This and why goldcucks will never win

>>11088560
so as long as the globalists control the world economy gold is worthless

>>11088575
/they/ can unironically see every traders positions on gold and set the price accordingly, gold had its speculative parabolic rally w futures and the next one with the etf approval anyone still holding is jewed

/they/ control fiat currency and also set the price on gold, you’ll never win, buy bitcoin the Jews don’t have it /yet/

>MUH EVIL INFLATION. MUH JEWS. MUH SHINY ROCKS
kek, i love this board. like going to the zoo

>>11088539
Again. DollAr value of gold means nothing. Why would you be valuing gold in terms of worthless paper when it's gold that gave the dollar its value to begin with?

You buy gold because fiat is a scam and you want money and wealth when fiat dies.

That's the entire fucking point you moron. The dollar value doesn't mean jack shit

>>11088686
“dollar value means nothing” the absolute state of goldqueers, enjoy the lifetime of opportunity cost

>>11088681
We showed you that money and goldis controlled by organisations in jewish hands.
Please, refute our statement with facts to show that we are wrong.

else:
0.02 shekels got deposit to your good goy account

if the fiat system fails youll be shot long before anyone gives you anything for your shiney rocks plebs, fkn nerds think youre gonna be living in some mad max shit and that people will trade with you rather then execute and rob you . Lol, long guns and ammo

>>11088677
yes they do

>>11088707
Gold is not controlled by anyone except those who buy it (like FED does). Money creation is controlled by national banks - who only uses the printing press to keep unemployment low.
As for the whole "jews still control everything/illuminati dude/fucking rothschild", read The House of Rothschild by Niall Ferguson

>>11088677
the jews took over btc years ago look into who bought (((blockstream))).

My $10000 meteorite I bought in 1999 has appreciated a lot more than gold. You pajeets are buying the wrong metals.

>>11088794
literally posted proof ITT that this is not the case you mong. what is gold fixing? what is paper trading? its always the people with the least understanding that yell muh conspiracy when its all out in the open

>>11088860
kek, keep believing that some big jews control the price of gold to keep some ancap neets unhappy and jewelry manufacturers happy

>>11088860
Yeah....gold just magically went down from $2,000/oz to $1,000oz in a short 7 years because demand for it went down 50%

>>11088916
its literally right there on wikipedia, summed up in a couple of sentences so that even your pea brain can understand it without opening a book. not even to mention that banks like deutsche get busted for price manipulation in the pm markets all the time. but why do I even bother...

>>11088844
Gold doesn't appreciate. Stop valuing gold in terms of Jew dollars.

A gold ounce 900 years ago is still that same ounce of gold today. Doesn't matter if the dollar exists or not.

It's stored economic energy. Gold gets its value from the energy used to get it in the PAST.

>>11089058
That past energy became irrelevant the moment this guy called Watt invented the vapor machine and we started the Industrial Revolution 3 fucking centuries ago. You are stuck 900 years ago in mindset it seems.
We now have machines using millions of times all that energy used in the past to mine gold, to mass produce the goods you and I consume.
The greatest idiocy we experience, is that men cannot effectively adquire the goods they produce. With the amount of manpower and machines at our disposal, we could satisfy the demand for all kinds of goods many times over, prices should be going down! You dont need gold for that, you can use fiat. Prices would still go down as long as the new money is helping produce more goods so they get cheaper.
But they are going up instead, why?? because the amount of money entering circulation is many times the amount of money that you'd need to buy all the goods of your country, all the factories, the machines and the wages and everything that matters that makes your existence so comfy in our century. In other words they are fucking with us big time as you know.
We dont NEED gold anymore we can do without it. You can put a gold backed currency but more of it will need to be printed anyway, in other to not lose your gold value to inflation you'd need to either earn more or store in gold. That still doesnt adress the problem of supply and how it can affect your economy. If gold buys you anything in your country and your country only holds 5% of the worlds gold you are looking for trouble. Im fucking done with you

>>11089058
My Jew dollars can buy me more gold now you fucktard. How dumb is this board. Sheesh.

>>11089391
that's because you're thinking in terms of fiat

>>11082390
bitcoin is superior to gold, so why would anyone here care? we've all moved on

>>11089597
>gold marketcap: $7.8 trillion
>bitcoin marketcrap: $113 billion
top fucking kek

>>11089625
>superior
>lower market cap
>broader potential market
lmao fuckin boomers

>>11089058
It makes more sense to value gold in the amount of labour it takes to obtain it. If in 1980 you needed to dig 500 ditches to obtain the necessary fiat to buy one ounce of gold, and today you need to dig 1000 ditches, then gold has effectively doubled in value since 1980.

>>11089597
The lol1mb tax jews you more than the greasy pawn shop owner does.

>>11085231
nobody will buy your overpriced land in crisis .... they dont have the money.. so you decide to lower price and see that all is normal.. gole will be everytime affordable but exchangable magicaly for normal goody so u all the time get your suit, food, ammo, land, shelter.... you will always have chance to buy and sell gold and live normaly.. having fiat wont give you reserve.. holding stock is extreme risk of being rich or poor.. owning crypto doubles risk and reward diametriclay.. owning precious metal is definition of wealth indicator that will never goes away.. in crisis and wars gold reflects commodity values

>>11089597
You fucking moron. Your throwing your dollars into bitcoin because there's a problem with the dollar and its dying .... unironically because it isn't backed by gold.

You aren't investing in bitcoin because there's an issue with gold. Moreover, gold has been de-monetized.

You fucking idiots can't fucking understand logic. Gold has nothing to do with you investing in bitcoin. If bitcoin goes to $1,000,000 dollars that won't make gold any less valuable than it is now.

You can't MAKE IT today because of massive inflation with the dollar. Because it isn't backed by gold. So you throw all your money into btc and crypto because you can't make it otherwiseZ

Under a gold standard you could drive retarded kids to grade school on a bus for a living and "make it" with a family and the wife taking care of the kids at home.

>>11081432
Production also has to do with the quality of materials as well, quality being subjective sometimes (cotton vs nylon for suits), so the production increase won't always show in quantity.
I'm also sure that thanks to rampant speculation, old money has been taking the bulk of the commodity gains from technological innovation, so you get 1 high quality nylon suit for an ounce of gold and the Rothchilds get the value of the other 14 back through the power of fractional banking and derivitive speculation.

>>11089774
i've seen you post this copypasta 100 times nigger, bitcoin is better than gold fuck off

>>11089758
The point of having land is that you can live off it and sell any excess. You can't turn gold into potatoes, and you can't buy crops with gold if everyone is starving to death.

>>11089801
You BUY potatoes with gold and silver. It's fucking money. That's the point in buying so you have money to buy things dumbass.

Wtf you mean you can't buy crops with gold when people are starving? So the dollar collapses and you think farming dissapears? Nobody accepts dollars in trade anymore and magically seeds don't grow into vegetables anymore?

How fucking brainwashed are you people? Gold and silver has been money for thousands of years so you can buy shit like potatoes.

You idiots say shit like you can't eat gold.... yeah? And? You couldn't eat silver or gold 800 years ago... doesn't mean it wasn't useful to buy things.

I'm about to buy 200 oz silver (100 oz bar and 100 1oz coins). Should I go to a local PM store and order through them, or order online and take delivery? Which is safest?

>>11089774
Bitcoin is backed by the power of a service, much like gold.
Gold's service is being easily meltable, incorruptable, and rare as a metal, making easier to store value with pre-industrial technology.
Bitcoin's service is more practical, being a trustless peer to peer network that is also incorruptable and rare.
Each have their caveats. Each gained their purpose through a mixture of utilitarianism and culture. In fact, bitcoin isn't supported by more than a decade of price action, so another may take the throne as a P2P network, even if the chance is slight with wall street giving good and bad press to the protocol.
Gold has thousands of years of memes behind it. You cannot doubt gold, as much as you cannot doubt thousands of years of pepe memes.

>>11089977
>You BUY potatoes with gold and silver. It's fucking money.
I don't think you understand the concept of a famine. There are no fucking potatoes to buy. Civilization has collapsed.

>>11090054
Not him but if you look at historical famines, the issue was inability to trade with peoples who weren't in a famine at the time (no longer an issue) or lack of viable currency to trade for food from other places (Zimbabwe, USSR collapse, Venezuela today).

Silver will buy you food in a famine zone. Gold will buy you transport OUT of the famine zone.

>>11090025
I wouldn't buy a bar, but that's just me. There's a lot of fakes out there that make their way to dealers.

>>11090042
>>11090042
Except it isn't fucking real!

Comparing gold to bitcoin would be like.l me saying to you....

Me: hey anon... I just got back from the pet store and bought a frog.... you want to come over and see him?

You: nah, anon.... why would I want to see your frog when I have 50 frogs in my hard drive that I can see on my computer screen in the form of Pepe memes?

Your living in a fucking imaginary world

>>11090054
There isn't a fuckig issue with famine in the United States nor in Venezuela you dumbfuck. The issue is the fucking paper currencies won't buy you shit

>>11090054
A famine would be living somewhere and the fucking weather destroys all the crops and you starve.

There is food in Venezuela, there are games in Venezuela, they import shit to Venezuela. There isn't s fucking famine in Venezuela.

>>11090079
>no longer an issue
The only reason this isn't an issue today is because rich western countries are always here to bail out all the third world shitholes. When we collapse there won't be anyone to save us. In fact we will probably suffer less than everyone else.

>>11090148
Farms in Venezuela*

>>11090115
>Your living in a fucking imaginary world
Is your conversation with that anon also imaginary? Welcome to the 21st century retard.
>The issue is the fucking paper currencies won't buy you shit
No shit we all agree inflation is the problem. More money is going into circulation in relation than the amount of goods being produced.
your solution:
>lets go back to a form of money completely controlled by those who caused the problems in the first place
the common sense solution:
>create money in proportion to production so that prices remain stable
its this fucking simple...

>>11090103
I want to go big into silver before I start accumulating gold, but I don't want to deal with hundreds and hundreds of coins. I was going to get a 100 oz bar off kitco or apmex so I figured the odds of getting a fake were pretty low. Do you know of any stores online stores that guarantee their deliveries? Last thing I want is to lose $3000 worth of packages in the mail.

>>11090148
>>11090154
Venezuela has additional problems because the government is confiscating farmers' produce. The free market isn't be allowed to function and is causing the food shortage to be even worse than it would have been.

>>11090152
America basically can't collapse, because if it did it would simply split into the 50 states again and they'd recover fairly quickly. Europe is basically fucked, however, as is the rest of the world due to their reliance on oil imports. Plus America produces so much food it's insane, the odds of us running out of food are nil; the odds of not being able to transport food to certain places is high (big cities, mainly, especially like NYC which is only accessible by bridge).

>>11090290
Just wait until the power grid collapses

>>11081523
once the space elevator is build, asteroid mining will be a thing. probably entirely autonomus. unmanned space vessels loaded with silver and gold hurling through deep space towards the moon. there the ore can be processed taking advantage of the moons helium 4 supply and lower gravity. that‘s the time space piracy will turn into a serious nuisanse. so i‘m starting a go fund me page to build a massive anti pirate armada. only true space chads allowed.

>>11090405
>space elevator
now that is true science fiction. i got a few ideas that should work but damn that's a big dream.

>>11090419
no dream is to big to be dreamed by us anon. the universe is utterly indifferent towards us. if we hesitate, not advance though the means given, it might kill us in an instant. the space elevator is our doorway to the solarsystem. from then on we can finally exist to rule.

>>11090328
>implying I don't live directly connected to a natgas generation facility
>implying I don't have a backup generator and bunkered fuel
>implying I don't have solar panels that cover 75% of my daily use anyway
>implying my house isn't properly insulated so I need far more energy that normies
I take prepping seriously. I'm not some dumbass living in Phoenix.

>>11090405
before that can be done, you have to solve the space debris problem, because the orbit of every single piece of debris will intersect it eventually

>>11090546
orbital elevator doesn't have to extend beyond the atmosphere. no debris problem in the atmo they would burn up or slow down and fall.

>>11090184
But prices WERE stable under a gold standard.

Inflation isn't a bad thing unless it's man fucking with it at a central bank. Natural feee market inflation is fine.

Jews tooo us off a gold standard to fuck us Jews didn't create gold.

The reason the gold standard worked is BECAUSE YOUR DOLLARS REPRESENTED THAT GOLD BACKING IT.

That's why prices were low as fuck!

You are trying to fix a problem that we already have the solution to.

It's one of the other.... gold standard or not. This county became great under a gold standard and it's been downhill ever since we went off. So obviously we need to go back and follow the constitution.

>>11090546
true. you got any ideas on that? because the only one i came up with is shooting them with lasers.

>>11090563
>orbital elevator doesn't have to extend beyond the atmosphere.
It actually does. Most feasible designs require the elevator to extend twice as far as Low Earth Orbit for the counterweight.

Frankly I think space elevators are not feasible. Better to use railguns extending tens to hundreds of miles to achieve escape velocity, probably somewhere out in a desert near a river for solar+nuclear power. The only problem is maintaining the rails and designing aerodynamic vehicles for launches.

>>11090584
>The reason the gold standard worked
let me stop you right there.
the gold standard didn't work that's why the us and the world abandoned it. it put serious constraints on the economic growth and the inability to finance anything serious like a world war.

>>11090678
no need for counterweight. if the elevator is only 20 thousand meter high it still puts space vessels at a very adventurous position for takeoff that requires much much less fuel than from sea level.

>>11081452
>>11081432
shut the fuck up and delet this thread, i'm still accumulating ;)
let the morons continue going all in on blockchain and stocks near ATH

>>11090699
*advantageous fuck autocorrect!

>>11090584
what part of jews own most of the gold supply dont you get brainlet?

>>11090699
>>11090711
So you want to launch multi-ton rockets and payloads from a structure 20 kilometers tall? Do you have any idea how hard it is to build anything more than a kilometer tall? Do you understand materials science?

The short answer is no, you can't do that.

>>11090699
there is always the option for test trails on the moon survace. we have to face the fact we‘re dealing with too many unknowns. we could learn from trail and error from the moon elevater.

>>11090727
yes you can i have done some calcs, the idea is to use buoyance to lift the structure and mostly only deal with the strain caused by the expanding gasses at every level. the structure gets lighter and lighter as it goes up. it would be a very wide very thin structure with a few elevators in the middle suspended by cables to the walls. the fuel cost would be only fraction of sea level launch. and the building itself is much more feasible and less vulnerable than any other alternative design i have seen.

>>11090759
on the moon >>11090779 wouldn't even work no atmosphere.

>>11090779
Please write your idea down and send it to me. I need something to tickle my civil engineer friends at our next get together. Bouyancy simply doesn't work that way.

>>11090699
You only eliminate the delta-v from the atmosphere drag, which is basically the first 20-30 seconds of a rocket flight and perhaps 500 m/s worth of delta-v compared to an atmosphere-free launch. You still need ALL of the 7800 m/s delta-v to get to orbital speed. You save maybe 10% of fuel at best, and make the whole operation a logistics nightmare.

And fuel is the smallest cost of a rocket launch, the hardware is 95%, fuel is only 5%.

Sorry but your idea is not gonna work.

>>11090804
yes it does but filling such a structure with safe helium instead of risky hydrogen is a bit of a problem.

>>11090818
you save about 70% of the fuel cost at the very least.

>>11090831
Check your energy calculations: you're not trying to get up to LEO at zero lateral velocity, you're trying to get to LEO at orbital velocity. A railgun is far superior for achieving that, you only have to worry about atmospheric drag on your launch vehicle.

>>11090866
no see most of the fuel is there to get 30% of the remaining fuel and payload up to that elevation where the orbital maneuver begins. with an orbital elevator you save all that.

>>11090831
You obviously have no idea about orbital mechanics or the speeds required to achieve orbit.

Saving 70% of the fuel costs would imply launching the rocket horizontally at 5500 m/s, and even at 10 G (which would break most satellites and will break all humans) that would require a floating horizontal accelerator of almost 150 km length... good luck with that.

>>11090894
that's not how it would work. it would be a high altitude wing assisted shuttle launch and continuous climb and gaining speed. we are not shooting people from cannons here.

>>11090882
Most of the fuel is there to get 30% of the remaining fuel to get almost to orbital speeds. Altitude has nothing to do with it, without the atmosphere you could launch horizontally but you wouldn't need significantly less fuel since the orbital speed is still 7800 m/s regardless of where or how you launch.

Maybe you should play Kerbal Space Program for a bit to understand how wrong you are.

>>11090935
I'm telling you, you wouldn't save any fuel that way unless you give the rocket a huge speed boost. But whatever, you clearly wish to remain willfully ignorant about orbital mechanics and I can't change that, so have a good day.

>>11090935
Bruh I don't want you to feel bad. Clearly you put some effort and thought into this, and that's better than 99% of the shitters on this planet. Keep trying and keep reading and eventually you're gonna make it.

>>11090938
140 IQ anon rekt the subhuman race

>>11090938
you save 70% of the fuel by cutting out the first stage boosters. which are basically mostly fuel to get the remaining fuel up. hell maybe you need to build a bit taller building extending to the stratosphere will save you shittons in gravity to overcome and time of flight.

>>11090962
dude you pretend you need the same delta v for high altitude launch than low altitude launch. it would be well less than half g there to begin with. that alone changes the entire rocket equation dramatically for an orbital launch.

>>11091002
>get the remaining fuel up
Getting to space isn't about getting "up", it's about getting "fast", it's easy to get to 100 km altitude, you need a tiny rocket with almost no fuel for that... STAYING at 100 km altitude or above takes 50 times more fuel and a much larger rocket.

Here, read this: https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/

>>11091029
>less than half g
Now you're just trolling, right?
g(0 km altitude) = g(6,371 km radius) = 9.8 m/s^2
g(100 km altitude) = g(6,471 km radius) = 9.5 m/s^2
It's just over 3% less, not "nearly half".

>>11091036
the x-15 is actually a good example launched from a mere 13.7km high it could nearly reach space orbit.

>>11091064
oh i see my mistake we use , as decimal separator around here but you murricunts use it as thousand separator. meh.

>>11091100
it could reach the _altitude_ of space, but it was not even close to achieving orbit, it was short about 6500 m/s (23400 km/h or 14600 mph) in speed for that

you really need to learn the difference between getting to orbital altitude (easy) and getting to actual orbit (fucking hard because it's 7800 m/s)

>>11091143
i wonder do we even want low orbital speed at all? if the purpose is mining then slingshot off of moon and heading straight out to the asteroid belt should be more energy efficient.

>>11091234
It depends what you want to do: almost all space activity these days is satellite deployment and ISS visits.

>>11091234
Great, now 7800 m/s is too low a speed for you?
Yeah, to get to the moon it's about 3200 m/s more (and would be even more to enter its orbit). But the moon is useless for a slingshot away from Earth, it's too slow and too small. You'd have to do dozens of gravity assists to get anywhere, and the orbital corrections needed to keep getting a gravity assist from it would actually require more delta-v than the moon could provide.

Why are we having the same retarded discusdion everyday but each time it gets longer ?

gold/silver = PRESERVE wealth
Ammo/guns/food = PREP to defend wealth
Shares = ACCUMULATE wealth
Bitcoin = POLITICAL STATEMENT and something of every thing mentioned before while being not as perfect as the specific asset (good overall)
House = USE wealth

Fiat and pension funds = LOOSE your wealth

All five first mentioned are equally good..thats why you should have all

Only a retard would rant about how bad stocks and cryptos are whereas someone who only invests in crypto is just as much of a retard...

I have everything and that was a good choice in the past desu

>>11091285
>and would be even more to enter its orbit
nah moon orbit is much lower than low earth orbit. or what are you saying here?

>>11091285
can't you keep making moon-earth loops with minimal corrections?

>>11089406
hell still get more gold for his remaining useless jew dollars when the time comes to buy gold (the bottom of the crash)

New thread, first edition of /pmg/ !!!

>>11091458
>>11091458
>>11091458

>>11084592
That argument fails because the number of consumers in the market has also increased. Essentially, the human population keeps up with the supply of goods and services. So yes, an item costs less today to produce, but there are also more people buying, raise the price due to scarcity.

>>11091292
how does gold preserve wealth when it devalues ?

>>11091463
already filling up with trolls :(

>>11091484
i already explained the RATIO of production/consumption is still way higher today than before in history. Try harder

>>11089406
Desu, if i bought gold instead of space rock and held, I would have less gold compared to me selling the space rock and buying gold today. You must be from Sudan.