/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10814944
Worthless shiny metal. Huge bubble

"In the absence of a gold standard there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation - there is no safe store of value." - Alan Greenspan (1966)

"Gold is money, everything else is credit." - JP Morgan (testimony to congress 1912 before his death.)

>>10814958
Dollar value of gold only tracks how unstable, volatile, and lack of store of value the dollar is.

The more and more worthless the dollar becomes the higher the price of gold.

>>10814979
The price of a Big Mac in gold can randomly double in a year. How is that not volatile?

>>10815013
100 years ago 20$ = a good weekly salary and 20$ also equaled 1oz of gold.

Today 20$ barely buys you lunch at a bar.

But that gold ounce at $1,200 still equal a good weekly salary.

>>10815115
I'm not talking about 100 years ago. I'm talking about 5 years ago. Where the price of a Big Mac in gold doubled. Imagine if you were trying to buy a house, and you saved up all your wealth in gold. Then suddenly the price of the house doubled. How can you call that stable?

Fuck off commie
Glad your shit crashed

>>10815167
>centrally planned funny notes are free market
>gold standard is gommunism

>>10815152
In the past 5 years, the price of houses in dollars has doubled too

>>10815199
And the price of houses in gold has quadrupled.

>>10815152
In short term the DOLLAR price can be manipulated. But serious gold owners are buying FOR a fiat collapse. Because it's after the deflationary collapse is when the massive transfer of wealth happens.

Like in Venezuela...where 1 oz of silver buys you 3-4 months worth of food on the black market.

What's the dollar value of silver? 15$.... 15$ barely buys you 4 tacos at Taco Bell but when fiat fails the real purchasing power of silver becomes unleashed. Think about that. 15 fiat dollars equals an ounce of silver but you can buy 3-4 months of food with that one single ounce when fiat fails. Thus proving how bad they are really fucking us.

Remember....... for most of human history and even in America 200 years ago a days wage equaled a silver piece the size of a silver dime.

Today an avg American makes 150$ Which is equal to 10 ounces of silver per day. Which flies in the face of all of human history.

One ounce of silver equals 14 silver dimes where 1 silver dime used to be a days wage. So someone earning an honest days wage 200 years ago would have had to work for 140 days to acquire as much silver as some useless insurance agent is able to acquire in 1 day if he exchanges his 150$ day paycheck for silver at a coin shop.

Which is why having as little as 500 ounces of silver will be a kings random in a fiat collapse. And you will have a situation where 3-4 days wage will equal a silver dime because there's so much less silver available and billions more people on the planet.

Everything is way overinflated in price because of fiat, when fiat collapses and we have to go back to the drawing board a little bit of silver and gold will be a kings random

>>10814944
What about Platinum? There's about 90% less platinum in the world than gold and it has a higher melting point, making it more useful in industry.

>>10815210
Comex is suppressing the price

>>10815221
Industry use does not matter and has no effect on price. The value of gold comes from its agreed upon value by people. The same way bitcoin is the most expensive and known coin even though there are a ton of shitcoins that do what Bitcoin does better.

>>10815217
And while you prepare for a FIAT collapse the home you want to buy just got out of reach. Good one. Also, no one in Venezuela uses silver. They use the DOLLAR. The value of commodities like silver and gold can be freely manipulated by any state simply by turning resources to mining them. How is your gold going to look when China suddenly decides to flood the market?

FREE SILVER
DO NOT LET THEM CRUCIFY MANKIND UPON A CROSS OF GOLD

>>10815239
Silver and gold aren't commodities. Wheat is a commodity. Gold and silver is real money.

Gold and silver is REAL savings.

And you can use that silver coin to obtain food on the black market because it's real money. Very few have dollars there.... those that have silver can eat

>>10815221
Being rare is only one characteristic that money has to be.

In fact gold is rare but not too rare.

And one reason platinum can't be money is because it's melting point is much much higher than gold.

Plus I don't think platinum was discovered until like 2-300 years ago

>>10815252
>Silver and gold aren't commodities. Wheat is a commodity. Gold and silver is real money.
They are literally listed under the commodity section of every exchange.
Silver and gold aren't commodities. Wheat is a commodity. Gold and silver is real money.

>And you can use that silver coin to obtain food on the black market because it's real money. Very few have dollars there.... those that have silver can eat
No. People are literally buying United States DOLLARS off the black market. No one is using silver.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-22/currency-black-market-quickly-re-emerges-in-streets-of-caracas

>>10815274
Of course they are buying dollars and. Or silver. There's going to be no place to buy silver and gold there.

What you aren't understanding is there are people who bought gold and silver before Venezuela collapsed and they were still a wealthy country.... and now that it's collapsed that silver they bought before is saving their ass.

Why would Venezuelans be buying silver after the collapse? If you have a million bolivars and that will buy you 3-4 months worth of food and that million bolivars also buys you 1 ounce of silver... the. Why the hell would that person buy silver?

Your missing the entire point. If you bought silver for cheap before the fiat collapse years ago. You are now able to buy a fuck ton worth of food with that single silver ounce.

You don't buy the silver and gold after the collapse. Get it now?

>>10815313
Of course they are buying dollars now and not silver* I meant above

>>10815274
I mean .... what do you think is the entire point of buying gold in the first place? It's so you have money and wealth for when fiat collapses and a huge transfer of wealth comes your way.

So those Venezuelans who saved up 200 ounces of silver or whatever 8 years ago.... they are sitting pretty now. Relatively at least.

You have to buy BEFORE not AFTER the collapse.

>>10815313
And if they held USD before the collapse, they would be in an even better position. If they held US stocks, that would be even better. Stocks outperformed precious metals during the hyperinflation of the Weimar republic. Gold and silver are useless. No one is going to take a silver bar at a coffee shop or grocery store.

>>10815313
what gold stock would your recommend before a fiat collapse?

>>10815343
I'm not saying it was bad to hold dollars.... because the dollar is the reserve currency.

Now what happens when the dollar collapses? Your wealth hyperinflates into nothing.

Also... you did. It read my OP. Gold has been money for thousands of years long before the stock market or dollar existed. Gold is a basis for money. A gold ounce 900 years ago is still that same valuable gold ounce today. It's the same.

A stock or a stock. Gold is money. Your comparing apples to oranges. Nobody is saying don't invest but when I buy apple stock I'm doing so for a completely different reason than when I buy gold.

One is money and savings and the other is an investment. Get it now?

>>10815370
I don't buy gold stocks. It's not BAD to buy gold stocks but you definitely want physical moreso.

>>10815372
Gold is not money. Money should have a stable value and be liquid. The first point obviously fails. The price of goods in terms of gold can easily double within a year. That is not stable. The second point also fails. I can't walk into Walmart and buy my groceries with a bar of gold.

>>10815398
It's been stable for thousands of years. Why else would it be money for thousands of years.

It's not about buying groceries dude jts about money having to back the currency otherwise the paper becomes increasingly worthless. Which is why 100 years ago 20$ used to be a good weekly salary yet today 20$ can barely buy you 5 tacos at Taco Bell.

I mean why do you think prices and cost of living is skyrocketing? Just magic? No it's because we don't have real money backing the currency.

100k went a lot further in 1981 than it does in 2017 right? So tell me... what's changed and why?

>>10815398
A gold ounce equaled a good weekly salary 100 years ago and today that gold ounce is still equal to a good weekly salary. That 20$ got obliterated when it comes to purchasing power

>>10815412
What you are referring to is not money. You are treating gold as an investment. If you aren't regularly transacting using gold for your everyday life, it is not money. In such a case assets like stock, bonds, and real estate heavily outperform it.

There's a reason why Bitcoin is called "digital gold" and it's not positive. And why Bitcoin "Cash" came about.

>>10815426
It is money..... when gold backed the dollar you were buying those goods with gold....because the dollar only got its value because of gold. All prices in 1964 were gold prices. And shit was cheap because of it.

You realize a dollar is just a currency backed by gold real money. And since gold doesn't back it anymore it becomes more and more worthless.

You don't even understand what the primary function of money is.... which is to MEASURE VALUE for goods exchanged for it. Gold has been the best measure of value for ages.... and still is today even tho it has been demonetized. And the dollar is an awful measure of value since a dollar went a lot further 40 years ago than it does today

>>10815426
Rising prices are bad. Tell me..... why are prices rising? Magic? Cmon tell me...

>>10815450
>You don't even understand what the primary function of money is.... which is to MEASURE VALUE for goods exchanged for it
No. The purpose of money is as a medium of exchange between goods and services. For something to be used as money, it has to be have a stable short term value and be liquid. Gold has neither of that. How can gold be used as a measure of value if it is so unstable? The price of a Big Mac in terms of gold suddenly doubles. Did the Big Mac suddenly double in value?

You keep looking at the long term, but that's not what money is. Money is used for the short term. If you are looking for a long term store of value, then you are looking for an INVESTMENT. Which is what gold is. However, it is vastly outperformed by stocks, real estate, and bonds. You say that you buy stocks for a different reason that gold? What do you buy gold for? To hold its value over the long term? Why would you want to merely have your wealth hold your value, and not grow?

>>10814958
Have you been waiting 6000 years for it to pop :)

>>10815493
Lol.... but it's GOLD that gave the dollar its value! The dollar represented gold. The dollar value was stable for 200 years because it was backed by gold which was stable.

And before the dollar was even a thing... gold and silver was money for hundreds and thousands of years! Because it was stable!

Sheesh.... amazing how difficult for you to understand this when I'm spoonfeeding you

>>10815493
And I'm not saying DONT invest. I don't have 100% of my wealth in gold but I have about 30% in gold. That 30% in gold of my wealth is completely secure in case the dollar implodes.

My gold is 1000% unaffected if we wake up tomorrow and 100$ doesn't buy you anything

>>10815493
Also... at least you admit gold will hold your value. But gold is wealth and real money.

If you have all your wealth in dollar denominated assets and we have a currency crisis your going to lose everything. So you NEED at least 10-15% in gold and silver right now.

>>10815545
>Lol.... but it's GOLD that gave the dollar its value!
No, the U.S government gives the dollar its value. But that's a tangent. I never mention the dollar ONCE in that post. You keep on harping about GOLD vs DOLLAR, when they are completely separate things. I don't hold a significant portion of my wealth in DOLLARS, so why should I care about its value?

>And before the dollar was even a thing... gold and silver was money for hundreds and thousands of years! Because it was stable!
And before there was gold, WHEAT was used. You paid your workers in WHEAT. You paid taxes in WHEAT. You bought slaves in WHEAT. Look where it is now.

>>10815556
>That 30% in gold of my wealth is completely secure in case the dollar implodes.
It's not. During hyperinflation GOLD is outperformed STOCKS. You are purposely investing in a lower performing asset class because "MUH SHINY". What advantage does GOLD have over STOCKS?

>>10815576
>But gold is wealth and real money.
How many times do I have to tell you this. GOLD is not MONEY. It is a poorly performing asset class. If all my wealth is in stocks and I experience hyperinflation, I still would be better off than if I held it in GOLD.

>>10814944
but muh asteroid mining will crash the price because launching rockets into space is cheap

>>10815412
>Which is why 100 years ago 20$ used to be a good weekly salary
100 years ago it would take 4oz of gold to buy the Dow Jones. Now it would take over 20oz of gold. You also missed out on 100 years of 2% dividends, which is another 7x return. You say gold holds its value? You can watch it rapidly deteriorate as the economy grows.

>>10815613
Ugh.... how are you so dense? Gold has been money for thousands of years. It's not a stock... it's not an investment. It is WEALTH.

In the year 1723 in the year 1410 in the year 232 B.C. There was no stock market. But gold was there and it was money and wealth. If didn't grow it was just wealth.

You don't compare gold to stocks. Gold stays the same and is money and wealth. And the stock market is an investment.

Gold is money..... and the dollar is money..... so you compare both of them. And gold held its value for 100 years and is still equal to a good weekly salary today just like it was a good weekly salary 100 years ago.

And that 20$ buys you virtually nothing today compares to 100 years ago.

So gold held up as money and the dollar didn't.

Also... what if someone doesn't want to gamble with their money in the stock market and just wants to protect their purchasing power from their hard earned work? Your telling me that people should be forced to put their money into the stock market to try and keep up with inflation?

Why can't they just keep their dollars under their mattress and have it buy the same amount of stuff today as 30 years from now?

>>10815588
No you dumbass. Gold gave the dollar its value. 200 years ago if banks started issuing currency not backed by gold the people would have laughed and told them to fuck off.

We were on a gold standard for fucking the first 200 years of this country. If it was the govt that gave the dollar its value then why the fuck would be the purpose of a gold standard then?

Jesus Christ dude this is like the simplest logic ever

>>10815588
Yeah and wheat didn't last as money right? It was a shittt form of money. Seashells were money too... how long did that last?

But golds lasted 5k years as money

>>10815674
Wheat lasted 10k years, from the beginning of agriulture and civilization to the industrial revolution.

>>10815588
What advantage does gold have over stocks? Jesus.

Humor me.... if you went to the coin shop tomorrow to buy 5 ounces of gold.... what would be your reasoning for doing that? What would be the point of you buying gold.

>>10815679
Yeah dude but wheat is food. You don't eat money bro. Just like people don't eat dollars

>>10815674
If the govt gave the dollar its value like you say.... then why were we on a gold standard for the first 200 years of this country?

>>10815656
>Gold has been money for thousands of years.
No it hasn't. It only started becoming a form of money during the middle ages. Before then, it was mainly hoarded by kings and regular people used goods like wheat and salt to trade.

>In the year 1723 in the year 1410 in the year 232 B.C. There was no stock market.
Nope, the concept of stocks and securities actually began in the 1300s with the Italians.

>But gold was there and it was money and wealth.
Nope, as I stated before, gold was hoarded by kings and regular people didn't use it as money.

>Gold stays the same and is money and wealth.
Gold does not stay the same. It drops 50% in 1 year. And I'm not talking about in relation to the dollar, I'm talking about in terms of real goods, like Big Macs. If you are talking about long term, it has held its value in the past, but stocks grow its value. Why would you want to merely hold value instead of growing it?

>Gold is money..... and the dollar is money..... so you compare both of them.
Gold is not money. How many times do I have to say this. Go walk into a store and try to use gold as money. See what they say. Money isn't meant to hold value for the long term. It's meant as a currency of exchange.

>And that 20$ buys you virtually nothing today compares to 100 years ago.
And 20$ in gold 100 years ago buys you virtually nothing today in terms of the economy. The Dow is 40x gold now.

>Also... what if someone doesn't want to gamble with their money in the stock market and just wants to protect their purchasing power from their hard earned work
You are gambling with gold. Gold can lost 50% of its value in 1 year. How is that not gambling?

>Your telling me that people should be forced to put their money into the stock market to try and keep up with inflation?
No, they can buy bonds which regularly generate interest that outpaces inflation, and still outperforms gold while holding value.

>>10815687
>Yeah dude but wheat is food. You don't eat money bro. Just like people don't eat dollars
Gold is a metal. It's used in computer chips. You don't use money in computer chips, just like people don't eat computer chips.

>If the govt gave the dollar its value like you say.... then why were we on a gold standard for the first 200 years of this country?
Why did we have slavery for the first 100 years of this country? Were our founding fathers wrong in thinking that slavery is a good thing?

>if you went to the coin shop tomorrow to buy 5 ounces of gold.... what would be your reasoning for doing that
Why the fuck would I do that when gold is absolute shit? I have no reason for buying gold.

>>10815398

Gold is store of value, money is cash to represent that value for easier exchange because yes, it's not convenient to trade in gold bars.
It's the same in crypto, btc as it is right now cannot function as cash, btc is like gold bars, but it might become cash if LN will be actually working and used, or bch gets proper adoption and doesn't fork itself into death before that

>>10815727
Lololol... dude.... computers have been around for only 30 years. So your telling me gold has had value for 5000 years to wait to be used in computers starting in 1977?

What does slavery have to do with anything? We were on a gold standard for 200 years dude. Doesn't matter if you think it was a good idea or not. The point is the dollar got its value from gold. Haven't you ever heard the saying the dollar is as good as gold?

I was asking you..... to humor me..... if you went and bought 5 ounces of gold tomorrow why would you be doing that?

People buy gold every single day. Coin shops are a real thing where you can buy gold. Your telling me that all the people who go and buy gold tomorrow at a coin shop are just throwing away their money? Might as well just go to a casino and throw those dollars in a slot machine?

>>10815115
exactly but the productivity raise and earning raise detached from each other a longvtime ago so that salary today is a hell of a lot worse ghan it was 50 years ago. some stuff is more abduant and cheaper but gold lost big against real inflation. not a store of value at all

the only interesting thing about gold is in a few decades we might run out of easily mined gold glld is very abduant on earth but if the price of production goes up many fold the price will follow.

>>10815787
People also go to casinos and throw their money away, every single day. What is your point?

>>10815787
Gold used be money or currency. I suppose it still is under various trades, but it hasnt been money for a long time, and doesnt appear to be cominf back as money any time soon

can anyone PLEASE explain the
> having gold/silver makes you a commie
meme?
I really don't get it.

>>10815806
also real inflation vs official inflation, but even against official inflation gold barely held it's own.

>>10815874
only china and russia buys gold nowadays the west moved on.

>>10815806
Gold has been a store of value for milennia. If gold isn't a store of value then NOTHING is... certainly not the dollar

>>10815820
Just because the stupid corrupt govt says gold isn't money doesn't make it so you moron.

If gold isn't money or a store of value then why is it still trading at $1,200 despite the fact that it's been de-monetized by the govt?

I know nothing about economics but isn't buying precious metals like gold and silver just a safety measure in case the vallue of your currency drops?
Like if the euro suddenly crashed and European economy basically dissapeared you could still take that gold you had stored and exchange it at a foreign market for a similar price in a different currency, right?

>>10816623
Also, gold remains valuable even today because of its usefulness in the creation of circuits and computer motherboards, wouldn't that mean that as long as technology is the most profitable business in the world gold will always have a place as a safe investment?

>>10814944

>haha oh wow.

Fudding gold - you are peak simple.

>>You can only make it in the core of stars. >>Distributed by supernova across the universe. >>Truly finite on earth.
>>Store of wealth for 6,000 years

>>10816629
A gold ounce 900 years ago is still that same gold ounce today. Doesn't matter if the dollar exists or not.

Gold is STORED ECONOMIC ENERGY. It gets its value because of energy required to get in the PAST.

Homes, stocks, crypto, bonds all get their value from energy being able to be produced in the future.

>>10816623
Exactly. It's a safety measure now because the dollar is worthless. It used to back the dollar to give it value.

Think about it....... when we were on a gold standard there was no such term as income inequality. Now that we've been off the gold standard for 40 years and abused the currency.... "income inequality" is literally a top 3 issue in politics. That's not coincidence.

In 1964 min wage was 1.25 or 5 silver quarters. Those 5 silver quarters today taken to a coin shop will be worth about 18$....

So a min wage earner 60 years ago had the purchasing power of someone today making 18$/hour... or twice the purchasing power of someone making min wage today.

Problem with many of you Public school educated dolts is that the PROBLEM in the economy is RISING prices and skyrocketing cost of living.

That's not happening because of magic. It's happening because we went off the gold standard and the dollar is worthless now.

Prices going up means the dollar is losing value

>>10816629
Gold has ALWAYS been and ALWAYS will be a safe investment because it's real money.

You guys are throwing all your money in crypto because the dollar is dying and you can't "make it" otherwise. And the reason the dollar is dying is because gold doesn't back it anymore.... duuuuuuh