/biz/ - Business & Finance

Fuck you commie, this is my Link and I will die for it. Come fucking get me

>>10683059
Suicide? can't force a dead man to work.
checkmate Jews, thanks for the ressources though.

>>10683059
Left wing scum gets the wall soon

>>10683090

gonna be hard to do while you're preoccupied slaving away for your masters

>>10683059
Communism is a far worse slavery. Bread lines and forced (((equality)))

>>10683059
We wouldn't be here if we had an Austrian based economic system.

Our keynsian system (basically a communist system), is the reason why the 1% has grown in wealth faster than everyone else.

We need the gold standard again.

>Fug gabitalsim!

t. guy who wants to make big businesses infinitely richer by flooding the developed world with dirt cheap labour that will gladly work for 1/5th the wage of a local lower or middle class worker

>>10683059
>Communism
>Become enslaved by the state in labor camps

Capitalism is better than slavery because you can choose between shoveling shit and hammering nails and if you are obedient enough, you get to babysit other slaves.

>>10683059
Anyone laugh at normies when they blow thousands of dollars on toys? I prefer to lose mine without ever spending it

>Socialists preying upon the weak as usual

>>10683059
Sorry, but I am already rich. Have fun working

>>10683059
Being enslaved by the state/party is even worse. Besides, I cashed out in January.

>>10683454

Same feel.

>>10683322

Legit lol'd at Austrian Economics. Do people really unironically believe that's reasonable? Or is it just steam punk larpers

>>10683059
I would accept death as long as my death takes several Marxists with me

communism is literally for retards

how fucking stupid do you have to be to believe this retarded shit

>>10683122
the irony of this statement with that OP is palpable.

>>10683505
Pretty fucking stupid desu

>>10683059
/biz/ would flip burgers for $.10 a day before joining a union, let alone risk losing their chains.

>>10683562
>losing their chains
At least there's the possibility of getting rich like I did and escaping. There's no escaping chains in communism, unless you somehow manage to become a high ranking party official.

>>10683521
OP is a kid that lives in a white suburb and has never seen real communism

spoiler: its fucking terrible

>>10683592

>at least there’s the possibility of getting rich

Ah yes another temporarily embarrassed millionaire. I’m sure they’ll let you in the club one day anon.

>>10683592
>At least there's the possibility of getting rich like I did and escaping
We both know you're larping, all of you faggots lost at least half of your money speculating on crypto.

>>10683629
Like you're going off a script. "Like I did." As in, I already am a millionaire. Believe it or not, I don't care.

>>10683494
Its more reasonable than having your purchasing power stolen from you by the government.

I love how commies spend all day complaining about the rich screw over the poor, yet they support Keynesian economics policies.

You really think we need to have inflation?
>inb4 dude the rich hoard their wealth mannnn
So you think its a better system to steal 2% of everyone's wealth every year, even the poor?
Who is going to be affected by that? Not the 1% thats for sure.

>>10683629
Are you a high ranking member of a successful communist/socialist party? No? Oh yeah you're not hot shit yourself kiddo. The Muscovy elite were the only ones to benefit from communism.

>>10683059
>implying

>>10683592
Spoken like a true capitalist bitch boy.
The only reason you think getting rich is an admiral goal is because your entire worldview is constructed within the capitalist paradigm. The egoism, the exceptionalism, and commodification are fundamental lies you have excepted to make the system seem reasonable.

You won't get rich under communism and socialism. Socialism and communism don't stand to make a man rich because that's not the point.

>>10683059
>capitalism
we have been becoming more and more of a collectivist society for decades on end now, where the actions of the government-backed banks influence literally everyone in society to the point where their livelihoods are affected, whether they want to have any business with the banks or not
don't even get me started on the fucking ultracorporations and the fucking SHIT publicly-funded hospitals that are intended to literally never fail no matter how POORLY these few super-massive entities meet both consumer *AND* employee demands (which is very important to remember, you retarded fucking communist shills, when you think that employees have ever put up with abnormally shit treatment at large in a capitalist society relative to the challenge of completing a given task at the time), so long as the banks and government can help it

>>10683786

Capitalism reaches it’s logical conclusion and becomes a corporate oligarchy and the banks and mega corporations who own the government make our lives a living hell and health care is a tragedy

Thanks again..... collectivism

>>10683858
We don't have capitalism now. There are no free markets, you donate to the political campaigns and you get profits legislated to you. Maybe you get a nice government contract, or a war, or maybe a government mandated monopoly. Regardless, not capitalism. The problem is corruption and Communism doesn't solve the corruption problem.

With Communism the Party leadership steal the Countries wealth. Everyone else just steals what isn't bolted down. It's a society with no incentive to produce anything and all the incentive to steal.

>>10683769
Well it certainly doesn't stand to feed, cloth, house, or educate them either. So what DOES it do then comrade?

>>10683769
>you won't get rich
But the party elite probably will. Besides, even if you eliminate money entirely, some people will always be "richer" others. It's fundamental that some people will be stronger, smarter, have more social capital.

Not that capitalism is perfect, you need some control over corporations to ensure they won't go overboard (like with pollution and things like that). But a full communist system takes away far too much power from individuals and groups. It's inherently oppressive.

>>10683769
it certainly doesn't stand to make a man healthy, happy, smart, caring, give him time, give him the ability to make himself productive, reach higher aspirations, go places, or enable him to be himself either

if government-approved medicine or medical device makes you sick, you will NEVER, FUCKING EVER, EVER, EVER be so much as permitted access at your own expense to the drug that can help you, when ALL YOU WANT IS A CHANCE TO FIX WHAT THEY DID TO YOU

>>10683858
at what point in capitalism's progression does it turn into an oligarchy of any sort
you're a big corporation that retails what is known to the world as the most cutting-edge of cutting-edge products one day, and the next day you're getting raped by a new company that, like you, wasn't held up by fucking acres of bureaucracy, but found a new way to do what you were doing more efficiently
this happens again and again until the end of time

where does the oligarchy come in
where does the hierarchy of evil overlords who control all the people and resources come in, in actual capitalism
and, the obvious, right in-your-face answer is, it doesn't, ever
it only comes in when people surrender their liberties to authority, with promises of wealth for more people
that's where it starts to grow
and it started growing over a century ago
and it was made by people who wanted to keep their piles of money without having to do any work
and all they fucking did
was stagnate the economy
all this time
the money that they could have had left would have bought them a fleet of private spacecrafts by this time, let alone food to live on for 1000 years
instead, we have unproductive fucking 40+ hour work weeks
unaspiring busybodies getting loans for nice houses that they can't afford in places where they shouldn't be, sticking their fucking noses in everyone's business
shitballs """"""safe"""""" GMO foods that certainly have a place on the free market, but should be fucking LABELLED SO THAT PEOPLE MAY REJECT THEM
etc.

>>10684056
>muh real capitalism never been tried

Like clockwork

>>10684458
this is fucking desperate

>>10684458
Pic related is a pure meme made with capitalist ideals. I think capitalism is better because memes like this wouldn't exist in a communist system.

>>10683614
It's no worse than the rust belt or pretty much any hooverville.

Actually I'd bet my family that's still Camaguey, Cuba has nicer homes than many Americans. They built everything from scratch since they are all tradesmen.

>>10684056
>People have no incentive to work
Capitalists literally believe people will only work for money.

Capitalism created a housing market based on predatory loans that wiped out 50 years of wealth gains for the middle class.

The housing collapse presented a rare opportunity: global private equity firms like the Blackstone Group are devising a new "rentership society."

High rents and weak millennial incomes make it all but impossible to raise a down payment. The convenient claim that millennials have evolved out of home ownership has taken hold.

Small-time property ownership is dying, widening inequality is defining our time. Forget the gilded age, this is Medieval.

But it wasn't always like this.

US tax law of the 1910s and twenties was progressive: resisting the patrimonial European model, the rich paid more.

We had the Great War, then the Great Depression, saved by the New Deal, followed by the Second World War and a massive boom. Top earners paid more than 90 percent tax.

It was the golden age of American capitalism and of American home ownership for the middle class.

The market crash in 1973–74 brought postwar growth to halt.

The seventies, Reagan, deregulation, decline of unions, rise of globalization and new technologies, income inequality blossomed.

>>10683059

>>10684577
And maybe you assume income inequality drives wealth inequality. It doesn't.

Wealth is about assets.

Rich and poor households hold different assets. Poor households have little wealth, mostly in cash or bank accounts. Middle-class households have almost all of their wealth in their houses. Rich households own stocks and business equity.

For 40 years, the middle class enjoyed a favorable housing market; their wages were stagnant, but their home values rose and so did their wealth.

Enter 2007.

The crash was a long-time coming. The middle class wasn't meant to recover; real estate companies did, though.

>>10684593
Number one largest owner of real estate in the world, Blackstone, uncoincidentally grew fourfold since 2007. At the root of the crisis was subprime mortgages and predatory lending. Taxpayers bailed out the banks. The banks took the money, turned around, and bought the homes they foreclosed on right out from under the taxpayers.

The new landlord, by divine right, the billionaire, will remain safe from insurrection in their luxury survivalist condo built in a former missile silo protected by armed guards.

How feudal.

The CEO of Blackstone, the company that bought up all those foreclosed homes, Stephen A. Schwarzman, is the first executive to pull in a $1 billion annual salary. That's taxed at rates barely more than the annual salary of the average millennial, who's making 20 percent less than a Boomer at the same age, in real dollars.

We're beyond the age of debt and on to the age of full-on predation.

>If only there were some way escape.
Like getting a job, retard? Even that is hard in a post communist/apocalyptic shithole I'm living in.

>>10684606
Suck it americucks.

The fact is socialism is a system of government where the federal government acts to ensure the social values of a society are guaranteed above other freedoms.

American social values are corporate dominance and commodification of everything, to eventually be sold in a market place that is to be rigged through mass ignorance and scams.
America is a socialist country that works to ensure these values above all else.

I don't know whay is that I hate most about commies, if it's their stupidity and complete lack of understanding of economics, or the fact that they resort to authoritarianism to solve everything...

>>10683059
fucking commie piece of shit who never spent a day living in real communism
>I did so fuck you stupid faggot because you don't know shit you talkng about

>>10683059

>Lenin
>Brahms
>Marx

Why Brahms?

>>10684745
>I don't know whay is that I hate most about cappies, if it's their stupidity and complete lack of understanding of society and ecology, or the fact that they resort to authoritarianism to solve everything...

>>10684773
oooohhh son, looks like you've burned your own bridges there

>>10684522
i just cannot race fast enough to unclog giant plugs in the municipal sewers or to sort through people's garbage for free; there's literally a lineup of people that spans for a good ten meters in both circumstances, even at night
the whole city shows up and pays the building owners for the opportunity to do the job when windows need to be washed on top of skyscrapers
last vacation i went on, i went to malaysia to stay in a sulphur mine and mined 100kg of product for the owners, free of any charge to them of course

if you wanna argue for collectivism in a good society, you literally have to be manipulative, because the truth is that collectivism is against the nature of productive humans who want to have nice things and don't hold one-another in slavery

>>10684897
If anything this shows the desolate corruption in capitalist society. No one feels the duty, honor, or has the pride do the necessary work to keep a society going. The only remaining encouragement is the fear that their livelihood will be taken from them. It also shows that the jobs that are most demeaning and demanding are intentually made unrewarding.

>tfw multi-unit owning landlord
What is this work you speak of?

>>10684977
based

>>10684955
Imagine for a moment that, perhaps, this society you hate so much spawned as a function of capitalistic principles, and not the other way around.

>>10683322
austrian is capitalism on steroids
i purely doubt it would solve problems caused by too much capitalism

>>10683059
>Communism is only a feasible political system if we kill more than half of the current world population

I am okay with this as long as I am not getting culled. My IQ and EQ is high enough to be a corrupt as fuck commissar.

We will never fall for your false gods

>>10683059
Nice, i know i'm no winner, so i'm perfectly content with staying right where i am, in the known and safe situation i am and always has been in.
I mean, if i became a millionaire overnight i wouldn't even know what to do, and i fear i'd lose myself and become someone i don't want to be.

>>10683059

>>10683059
>Looks like you're still stuck in the lower class of capitalism and doomed to a lifetime of slavery and servitude to the bourgeoisie for the rest of your life
Funny thing is all communists are too but LARP as people who don't care about it (but at the same time want to change the system by violence)

>>10683059

FUCK OUT OF HERE YOU COMMIE PIECE OF SHIT

I THOUGHT WE KILLED ALL OF YOU SCUM

>>10684606
You're confusing capitalism with Keynesian central planning. It wasn't the free-market that failed, it was big government that destroyed the free market.

Governments around the world (pioneered by the US, then followed closely by their European and Japanese bitchtoys) started printing money (that is, taxing by stealth) like it was no ones business and pumping the money into the financial markets. As has been identified in this thread, the 1% and 10% own the vast majority of stocks and bonds.

Therefore this was a 20 trillion dollar global government welfare program for the 1%. That is the reason for widening wealth inequality and productivity stagnation.

>>10685338
You mean that capitalism is a system created by a loss of honor, duty, and pride, and continues to incentive behavior that destroys honor, duty, and pride?
That's what is meant when you're so firmly enveloped by the paradigm that your understanding of those traits is so warped you can't imagine then existing except within your own paradigm.

Good luck faggot

>>10686825
The fee market will always fail because it incentives cheating the free market and has no method for preventing fraud. It inherently aggregates capital, and capital is power and influence. Infact, in a "free market" those who initially start to cheat the system only gain more leverage to continue cheating the system. The free market must continue to outsource new inputs, and offset externalities to perpetuate volume, less people lose faith. E.g. I sell you a box of fresh oranges, that turn out to be rotten on the inside. I get the money, and you get nothing of value. Next time you go to buy a box of oranges, you'll ask a lower price because now you are factoring risk. The market price of oranges is lower because of my fraudulence. When I myself go to buy a box of oranges, I can likely buy the same box of oranges and still have money left over. Fraudulent behavior is rewarded.

This is only amplified after hundreds of years of trade, until capital will require governments to get involved and act on their behalf, to further right the market.

The "free markets" were fast and efficient and discovering and extracting resources, but now that we have run out of "untamed" land, the wealthy have to capitalize on other "resources."

The wealth aren't the arbiter of their capital. Their capital is the arbiter of the wealth.

why can't commies make their own memes, it's all shit stolen from /pol/
communism will never work unless it's all people voluntarily doing so in small communities with people they actually give a fuck about

>>10684579
>>10686160
>>10686427

>>10687004

Fuck you, learn game theory. As the price of anarchy approaches 1 it's equivalent to a perfectly planned central economy.

Yes you can have scam strategies and then they will get countered(your stupid orange thing fraud can be simply checked by knocking on it you retard).

Except you can never get a perfectly planned economy because of FAT FUCK RENT SEEKING BOOMERS LOOKING FOR HANDOUTS LIKE YOU

>>10683059
The problem with communism is that it is more likely to win the lottery in a capitalist society than living in a communist society that works. The prols aren't as dumb as you think, they have weighed their options.

>>10683059

>>10687281
I'm not arguing from a higher-than-thou-rationality that a planned economy can control all the resources without catastrophic failure. I'm not even arguing against the deployment of markets to regulate the flow of resources. I am saying that the argument that a free market magically creates the most rational deployment of resources is a fucking sham and isn't rational at all. It ultimately is a game, and yes game theory is deployed until nothing else is standing.

A planned economy doesn't not have markets you fuck.

You're such a pro at cognitive dissonance, but somehow you can't have these two ideas in your head.

>>10687339

You don't understand anything. Your conclusion is false. You want free shit and use $3 words to justify it.

Everything has a market. A market is swarm intelligence. It's a valuation metric. Plant ecosystems have markets. You don't "deploy a market". Markets exist as a response to demand which come from individual choice.

The idea that you can control things you can't is what makes your ideas broken fundamentally. See the thriving drug markets. The govt didn't stop a market there, they just redirected profits from it and got a bunch of people killed and expanded the prison state.

>>10687004
>I sell you a box of fresh oranges, that turn out to be rotten on the inside. I get the money, and you get nothing of value. Next time you go to buy a box of oranges,
Wait, what the fuck? This isn't accurate at all. Let me fix this bullshit.
>I sell you a box of fresh oranges, that turn out to be rotten on the inside. I get the money, and you get nothing of value. The next day, you hire someone to kill me for selling prankfruit.
The free market works.

>>10683322
Austrian economics is pseudoscientific garbage. Neoclassical FTW.

>>10685362
its actually the other way around. Keynesianism is really unchecked capitalism (leading to centrally planned communism). Why do you think everyone, including the country itself is burdened with debt? Its because the banks can print as much money as they want, and loan it to whoever they want. That is not capitalism. In a free market system, nobody would use banks that lent money like that, because they know the bank is really committing fraud.

>>10683322
Do you understand natural monopoly? Moreover, do you understand emergent monopoly from network effect and/or power relations between enterprises becoming effectively locked in?

What are your thoughts on intellectual property?

>>10687499
Natural Monopolies don't last forever. Typically natural monopolies are the result from a company having a first mover advantage. After a certain point, a company will lose this advantage as they become less effcient due to the law of diminishing returns and diseconomies of scale. It is at this point in a free market system, where a market maker would enter the try to compete with the inefficient monopoly. However, today's corporations are propped up by the government, allowing for no competition, and thus crush anyone trying to compete with them. Most smaller companies struggle to get through all the rules and regulations put in place by the government, where the monopoly doesn't because they are most likely the ones who lobbied the government to create those rules and regulations in the first place.

intellectual property is another government invention to crush competition with larger corporations, and therefore it should not exist. If someone has a method of producing something cheaper, they should be able to. The government shouldn't stop them because
>muh intelectual property

>>10687416
How do you hire someone to kill me? You don't have any capital. All you have is some shitty oranges that you bought at a fair price.

Infact, I'm the only one with capital and hired a body guard.
And just a fore warning, now that I've got a body guard, he's going to rough you up every week and take half your cash. But don't worry, Its for your protection. We'll call this guy a nice fun name: the police.

>>10687604
like fb and 4chan. fb requires a trillion for stocks
4chan is hosted by a guy
fb has fake friends and gay ass gaymes
4chan is real.
but can 4chan take over fb?
no unless the owner IPO'ed 4chan
but fb got so many gubberment funds so zucc wins.

Wtf are commies even doing on /biz/? They have no knowledge of even basic economics

>>10687787
america and the world needs soviet union
the 1950~1980 is the golden age of humanity
now everything is controlled by the billionaires.

>>10687245
Fucking lmao, just because I hate communists doesn't mean I'm from /pol/ you retard.

>>10683122

>hold 21 BTC
>wait 5 years
>become a master

what part of this you don't get?

>>10687812
Deep. Fucking inspiring man. People like you and me are stronger than anyone else, we're the elite. We fucking own people.. We are the best!

>>10688067
Racist bitch

>>10687416
Realistically nah. We just had a “metoo” style scandal with a local event organizer in my city. Someone might recognize the story if they’re from here, it’s one of the largest metro areas in the country, and he was probably one of the largest event organizers in the city with basically every large music festival from the past 10+ years coming from him and his group of people. Anyways, he was also notorious for ripping people off. Unpaid emoyees, contractors, unpaid rents, so many people burned but everybody kept giving him money because of the recognizability of his ventures, and all of his successful connections to national acts. Ironically, it wasn’t bad business reputation that buried him, but girls testifying that he had sexually assaulted them.

>>10684501
there is no capitalist system. capitalism has been tried in the 19th century and it failed so hard that communism became an actual thing. nowadays every country in the world does mix of capitalism and communism because everything else just didnt work.

for those here in the working class who haven’t read these books, especially the ones on here who I see constantly complaining about wage slavery, take the time on one of your breaks (if you get one) to actually read the communist manifesto and the state and revolution. Even if you hate communism read it as a skeptic and maybe you can know your enemy better and at least you’ll have a better understanding of what it is you’re opposing. Or maybe you’ll think they make some valid points. That’s all I’m saying. Now I have to get ready myself, just 4 days until the weekend!

>>10688669
waggies think even in 1000 years they will still need to work

>>10688669
competition is good though. It is how we have managed to create so much as a spices. The problem isn't competition, it is manipulation. Keynesian economics is an economic system based on currency manipulation and debt slavery. That is the real problem. That is what keeps the 1% at the top of the financial food chain. Free market capitalism is a system based on merit, and actual productivity. Keynsian economic pseudo capitalism is a system based on central planning and apparent productivity. How is it 40% of the USA's GDP comes from the financial sector. A sector that does not produce anything, but instead manipulates the prices of assets to show apparent productivity.

Keynesian are vultures who produce nothing, yet have seemingly convinced everyone they produce everything.

>if there were only some way to escape..

As the secret police come whisk uou away for dissent

Yeah totally cool OP, please kill yourself

>>10683059
Do it you commie faggot.

>>10688804

I already live in a police state under total surveillance with the highest prison population in the world

But sure I’ll worry about secret police

>>10688669
>No votes for under 21s
>Universal arming of the people.
I agree with two out of seventeen.

>>10687652
so, all this guy's money went towards buying your oranges? doesn't sound like a fair price to me
and, you deliberately sell people shit oranges, but you haven't had your bad reputation posted all over locals' social media and people don't crack jokes about how much of an unlikable con artist you are? nobody's going to buy your shitty oranges when, since you're in the right climate, at least three other people nearby, and tens of thousands of people nationwide are all in an actual game of competition to produce the best oranges that they can produce for their market. i repeat; NOBODY wants your oranges. some people buy them once and they hate them—and, presumably, when they try to return them to you, you tell them to get lost and point to your police bodyguard who is such a thug that he's defending a guy who's literally scamming people (which i'm sure will also go over well with the public, for his organization).
tell me where your money will come from when nobody's buying, and all your money is going to your bodyguard. tell me what will happen when the winter rolls around, and you've got no money saved up. in addition to heading to a food bank, you're gonna have to go to a soup kitchen at least once, dude—where the locals know your face! hope you like cigarette ashes in your minestrone!

>>10687245
>not buying into communist bullshit
>must be from /pol/

>>10683769
>You won't get rich under communism and socialism.

Unless you rank high in the party. Otherwise you line up for rations until you get sent to a prison camp for 25 years for being a student.

>>10688669
capitalism allows us to use, and actually REWARDS US FOR USING technology so that we don't have to do shitty work that nobody likes
if minimum wage, taxation, and regulation weren't a thing, then employers (which potentially includes you) would be allowed to provide their employees with a salary that more accurately reflects what their labour is worth, and the costs of many goods would decline sharply because machinery drives prices down and increases productivity
as for the lack of regulation part—if you think that this would lead to rampant pollution, then consider that maybe people might have the money to be able to buy from a company that advertises its devotion to keeping their waste out of rivers—or even has collaborated with scientists to put together a colony of microscopic organisms that work together to dismantle, at the molecular level, the waste produced by the company
even if there were no patents and people copied the formula, they could advertise themselves as the pioneers of the technology, and thus, industry leaders
mind you, this is probably only something that would happen in western nations, where people seem to give a damn

>>10683076
It’ll evaporate on it’s own

>>10683059
A bunch of limp wristed faggots in America are about as likely to start a bloody revolution as they are to pay off their student loans.

>>10690021
> imagine nonironically thinking people would even fucking notice a company was dumping actual radioactive toxic waste in a river without government oversight

NEETs won't be able to exist in a communist society and will be forced to work. Capitalism let's you get away with leeching off the wagie labor if you're on the bottom or top, that's why I'm OK with it. If we had communism I'd be in a forced labor camp for refusing to work.

pinkos deserve the stake desu senpai

>>10687481

interest rates would be way higher if money didn't grow from from the central bank's trees.

there wouldn't be these private equity giants using free 0% interest money to buy up everything in sight (blackstone), creating a new slave class of retarded millennials

>In Bullshit Jobs, American anthropologist David Graeber posits that the productivity benefits of automation have not led to a 15-hour workweek, as predicted by economist John Maynard Keynes in 1930, because of "bullshit jobs": workers who pretend that their role isn't as pointless or harmful as they know it to be. Graeber contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs:
>flunkies, who serve to make others feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants
>goons, who act aggressively on behalf of their employers, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations
>duct tapers, who fix problems that shouldn't exist, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code
>box tickers, e.g., performance managers, in-house magazine journalists, leisure coordinators
>taskmasters, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals
>Graeber argues that these jobs are largely in the private sector despite the idea that market competition would root out such inefficiencies. In companies, he credits "managerial feudalism" as employers need underlings to feel important. In society, he credits the Puritan-capitalist work ethic for making the labor of capitalism into religious duty: that workers did not reap advances in productivity as a reduced workday because, as a societal norm, they believe that work determines their self-worth, even as they find that work pointless. Graeber describes this cycle as "profound psychological violence"
>Graeber holds that work as a source of virtue is a recent idea, that work was disdained by the aristocracy in classical times, but inverted as virtuous through radical philosophers like John Locke. The Puritan idea of virtue through suffering justified the toil of the working classes as noble

>>10683769
>Socialism and communism don't stand to make a man rich because that's not the point.

then what is the fucking point work wage slave position till you blow your god damn head off because it has less meaning now?

>>10690196
Exactly! Why don't people understand this? The communist central planning of the economy done by the federal reserve is not free market capitalism. It is communism. It is the root cause of our debt slavery to our 1% overlords. Communism is not the answer. Redistribution of wealth through the state will only make the 99% poorer, and the 1% richer.

>>10684522
I mean sure people will work at gunpoint too
but tell me what else would they fucking work for?

>>10690424
I mean do people really think the USA is free market capitalism? For fuck sakes, the United States confiscated civilian owned gold, for 31 years per Executive Order 6102 thanks to the communist shill, Fucklin D Rosevelt.

>>10690072
>what is private land ownership
>what is owning land down the river
>what is doing water contamination tests to see if the water is safe to swim in, drink from
>what is noticing with your eyes all of the dead and dying flora on the land within a two meter radius of the river
>go hunting, kill deer; notice its liver is black, flesh is pale, and arteries are dark
>cats in the area growing different numbers of arms, some born with tiny heads with no eyes
ah yes, no one could ever tell without a government bureaucrat
it's the government bureaucrats who make cost-effective, fast solutions to these problems, too; just look at how quickly chernobyl has once again become inhabitable, or how quickly the mercury poisoned people at grassy narrows in nunavut have recovered!
oh yeah—at this rate, chernobyl won't be habitable for another 20,000 years, and the grassy narrows people still haven't been treated with emeramide, which costs only $0.25 per gram to produce using current methods and still has not been approved for use by humans in either canada or the states, despite having no known side effects and having permanent positive effects almost instantly

>>10687245
The absolute butt hurt listen here you burrito brained goblin nigger i've never browsed >>>/pol/ a day in my life and I still want to track your kind down and turn you to mulch

>>10690492
oops i mean the grassy narrows people in ontario, not nunavut

>>10690424
>>10690490

>>10690490

>not real capitalism
>FDR was a communist
>the US is failing because it’s actually communist and not capitalism

Good lord how do people actually do the mental gymnastics required to beleive this shit? I mean at least you correctly realize that this system is doomed to failure

>>10690576
THE SYSTEM IS DOOMED TO FAIL BECAUSE OF YOU.

FDR was a communist.
He confiscated civilian assets for the state, and he moved us off the gold standard to the Breton woods agreement. He got us involved in a Zionist war, we had no business being in, and he supported the USSR.

Tell me, How do his actions not sound communist to you?
Do you think a centrally planned economy is capitalist? Because it is not.

Does this sound Capitalist to you?:
"Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly."

>>10690761
>the absolute state of american education

Are you an Ancap that believes corporations are controlled by Marxists?

>>10683059
>communism
If I wanted to escape life I'd neck myself rather than voting for some economically illiterate authoritarian psychos would starve and torture me to death along with everyone else.

>>10690789
>the absolute state of hurrr dur
Nice refutation. Why don't you answer the question?

Does this sound Capitalist to you?:
"Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly."

Corporations are just organizations of people. They are fine, so long as they are not propped up by the government, like many of them are today. Google is basically another branch of the government at this point. Nobody can compete, because nobody receives as much government funding as they do.

The problem is government. Not corporations.

>>10690761
I mean we declared war on the Japanese empire and Hitler declared war on us (even though he shouldn't have) we had no intentions in joining the war but public opinion changed when we got 9/11'd but if Hitler wouldn't have shot himself in the foot by declaring war on the US I doubt our involvement in the rest of the war would have existed

>>10690761
>>10691138
now if you want to make the point that we accepted 100,000 Jewish refugees after the war I would say you have a better point

>>10687434
Neoclassical boomer

>>10690021
>capitalism allows us to use, and actually REWARDS US FOR USING technology so that we don't have to do shitty work that nobody likes
>if minimum wage, taxation, and regulation weren't a thing, then employers (which potentially includes you) would be allowed to provide their employees with a salary that more accurately reflects what their labour is worth

Oh no no no hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Imagine being this deluded

>>10683322
based

>>10683078
>be you
>get shot to prevent you from killing yourself

https://youtu.be/_75uR4u5YEs

>>10691138
Hitler did not want to go to war with Great Britain. He made numerous peace offerings, yet Churchill refused all of them.
It was Great Britain that urged us to get involved in the war, and they were willing to trade their global dominance with the US, so that we would get involved. The US tried to remain passive, until finally FDR the kike passed the Lend Lease Act and started funding the USSR and Brittan in January 1941, a year before pearl harbor. We would have never been attacked by Japan, if we stayed neutral, but Roosevelt was a kike in the pockets of the central banks, who for the past 300 years have been financing and provoking every major war.

>>10690852

The government is now owned by corporations and is working in the best interests of maximizing the profits for these corporations. Like you seem to acknowledge, this is a corporate government, this is exactly what you'd expect to see in an oligarchy. A state or a government is inherently an apparatus whereby one class suppresses another class, and right now it's used to suppress the majority, the working class, in favor of the minority, the capitalist ruling class. It is currently a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie where democracy and freedom exist only for slave owners. I want to get rid of the government, but the idea is that in order to do that, we first have to use the state apparatus to flip the situation around and put the majority (workers) in control and suppress the ruling class until the point where class society and the state withers away. People will say that's bullshit and that we don't really want that because so far historically it's never ended that way. But the end goal is a classless and stateless society. No government, no classes and no relations of production and societal relations based on a class hierarchy. So what's your plan to get rid of the government?

>>10683629
Woahhh dude you repeated a fake Steinbeck quote you saw in a meme on reddit you’re so worldly and well read bro

>>10683059
There is... a bullet to the brain, maybe you should try it some time.

>>10691639

Sure, hope to try that method out on every class traitor one day

>>10691504
I think you have it backwards. The government owns the corporations. They finance them with subsidies, and the promise of special favors, so long as these private corporations work for their interest.

I understand what your goals are, to create a classless society, and they have good intentions. However, I feel you are misguided on the classless part of the equation. I think there should be societal classes, that are based on merit. Not authoritarian force, and currency manipulation, which in our modern society is all perpetrated by the state, and the 1% who own the state. The state is not owned by the citizens, as the state is indebted to the 1%; those who loan currency created out of thin air to the government.

My goal to "get rid of" (well really minimize to the extreme) is to move our economic system, back to the gold standard to restrict government spending ( or a bitcoin standard ). Using a scarce unit of account restricts government spending, since the government is not able to print currency out of thin air to finance their wars and public spending. Keynsianism is an illusion. It is a drug that injects credit into society. It leads to rapid innovations in (like the rapid development of technology), at the cost of creating a society that is overconsumptious and militant. If we had a society based on the gold standard, the state would not have the financing to commit the many atrocities they have committed, not only to the enemies of their state, but their own people. The state is an invention of those who issue credit in a society. Those we are indebted to. Those who we serve. Communism, the way I see it, is doing the opposite of what people claim. It is giving the state more power by seizing the assets owned by citizens, until nobody owns anything except the state. And remember, the state has owners. Communism will create a two-class society. The 1% owner of the state, and the slave indebted to the state. It will not accomplish what your goals.

Too bad lefists only care about trannies and importing infinity nigger these days, your ideology is deader than crypto

>>10690576
you misunderstand the fundamentals at play, here; regulation and red tape—a lot of which was introduced by FDR—is not a part of capitalism, period. introducing laws that inhibit peoples' ability to play a role in the free market based on how much wealth they have is NOT a feature of capitalism. stealing people's private wealth in the form of the gold confiscation, again, is NOT a feature of free market capitalism, or liberty of any kind. jacking the minimum wage—taking an economy in which there is a high dynamic range in incomes at the lower levels (because different entry-level positions are, in reality, worthy of different wages) and simply condensing everything up to the same minimum federally required level, literally demanding by law that people who perform labour of lesser value get the same pay as someone who performs labour that is objectively worth more—is not in any way AT ALL an aspect of free market capitalism.
the dude pushed us further to economic equality, which—as it always does—only made everyone closer to being as poor as the lowest in society, and led to less wealth creation. everyone worldwide was more poor thanks to the policies that he imposed on what was arguably still the most capitalist nation in the world, at the time.
i would ask you to read the second response in post >>10684193, and to tell me what you have to say about it. where does true capitalism actually fail? to me, it seems quite strongly as if things only get continuously better in a capitalist society that had a population like america's, or great britain's in the later half of the 19th century. when problems arose, was it because of the solid foundation of, or numerous aspects of free market capitalism that had made these nations rich in the first place—or was it because people had surrendered their liberties to the government, in exchange for the promise of security in the event of misfortune?

>>10692128
the answer is clear; the seemingly unstoppable elite and the cultures of degeneracy started to grow when collectivism grew. if you or anyone else cannot see this, it will be at your own peril, as the decentralized nature of cryptocurrencies envelops the audience that wishes to hold independence from the government-backed taxation which keeps the elites rich regardless of their true performance in keeping their customers (who are frequently only customers by default) satisfied or content, and these independent entities grow society anew, leaving the old system to very quickly collapse under the weight of the welfare state that was bleeding the strong and the ambitious to an early grave.
after all—nobody will want the united states dollar if the only users of it left are people who demand more of it in exchange for nothing.
you cannot stop this.

>>10691814
Also want to add this pic for clarification on who the 1% is. Its the owners of the banks, who of course support Keynsianism, which enables a slow confiscation of wealth from the lowerclass who own currency, and benefits the 1% who own capital.

>>10688516
finally someone with a brain

>>10692144
>what is bitcoin: the post

>>10683059
>"Capatalism is evil because it opresses the poor and makes the rich richer"
>same thing happens under all socialist countries
Really making me think

>>10692836
Please don't use my best unit to shitpost.

>>10692836
>>same thing happens under all socialist countries

Socialism & communism in practice just means that even fewer people control all the wealth.

Look at socialist countries... their wealth gap makes America's look quaint.

>>10683059
After being a liquid millionaire (still) and having boomers deny my rental applications because I can not get a letter from my employer I am ready for any kind of anti-boomer uprising. Communism, fascism, anything goes and count me in. With boomers and jews you lose!

>>10683786
Its 22 trillion now...

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/182279687