/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10553522
saged and hidden

>>10553522
>>>/rebbit/

We prefer it to be of the national kind

>>10553522
(((socialism)))

>>10553522

Look up the history of the USSR or China under Mao.

>Overproduction and devastating business cycles that recover in time
vs
>Mass starvation, poverty, and state controlled everything.

>just let (((us))) control your money and what you can do with it, gentile, you won’t regret it, I promise

>>10553611
Those were not socialist countries. Socialism is people's ownership of the means of production.

>>10553522
Because u brainy murifatfucks never lived in a communistic shithole. Human nature is not being nice and sustainable. U think that human became no 1 spiece on earth because he was nice? Fuck no. He nuked entire system. U think the human is the only one fighiting for his own part? Go read an amazing book: hidden life of tress that shows how complex and brutal forest eco system is. That being said socialism is an utopia, there always be unit that craves more and denies it to other..

>>10553557
Nationalsocialism is the total opposite of "Socialism" though. In Natsoc, the socialism word doesn't -- at all -- mean the same as what marxists/communists mean. The "socialism" in Natsoc has nothing to do with money or the means of production or ownership. It has everything to do with the Nation, the culture, the traditions, the people, the race, with promoting a healthy volksgemeinschaft.

> TLDR: Jewish "Socialism" focuses on money (taxing everyone and everything) and is anti-national, anti-culture, anti-human, anti-individual, anti-white. Nationalsocialism is the opposite of that.

>>10553638

https://youtu.be/TzAsH_7zHMY?t=50s

>>10553638
>it wasn’t a real gulag

Here's how the world should be:

You have children if you have enough money to not work and support your children(about $500k would be enough to generate % for passive income)

Free market with regulations that prevent any food poisoning, destruction of nature etc. No need for regulations preventing people from investing just because retards lose their money that way.

Once all the retards have died off you'll be left with smart people who can see when the government's politicians are shady and will just vote for another politician.

Transparent Government, not that you have no idea what the fuck they are doing with trillions of $.

White only.

>>10553638
>not real socialism
fuck the everloving fuck off and stop trying to force your devastating system of death on everybody else
go to fucking venezuela, you fucking chump
we've been inching closer towards communism in the western world for the past century; among the effects of this have been that fewer people who would have owned things like land do not, and are thus more limited in their independence and ability to freely create wealth on their own accord, and the people who don't have connections to the state or to preexisting enterprise have a severely hindered chance of being able to run a business that doesn't fail because of factors that are frequently beyond their control
collectivism is total cancer; it guarantees that people who do not want to work together and will be bad at working with one-another will HAVE to do so, and dehumanizes them in the process
fuck your collectivist bullshit into a hole in the ground

>>10553967
U will be first to be blacked
Back to polbit cunt

>>10553978
Here's an absolute rebuttal to your tired old "muh Venezuela" argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le86H7Xfjrc

>>10553638

Stop playing this stupid Orwellian language game. If you want Democratic Socialism, that's fine, but what you were specifically referring to was a planned Communist economy, which means government controls and "the people's ownership of the means of production" ala the USSR or Maoist China. The closest thing we have to that now is Venezuela and look how it's working out for them. That model has been tried dozens of times and failed every single one, leading to massive shortages. Bread lines, mass starvation, nothing that works... it's a fucking dead end.

>>10553818
>Muh 62 gorillion

/biz/ is an ancap board, commies and natsocs pls go

>>10553980
Visit Italy or France and see the wonderful people there.

>>10554007
>listen to this Marxist sōyboy faggot for a "rebuttal"
Why do you even come here? Aren’t you happy in your little commie circlejerk?

>>10554007
>Venezuela is not real socialism. Real socialism has never been tried

>>10553747
dont expect the average burger to understand this. They were taught all socialism is the same and its all bad

>>10554116
second this. the most alt rightards know is that welfare = socialism(it's not). while im not a commie, it's pretty clear within 2 seconds of them opening their mouth that they haven't read a single book in a day of their lives.

>>10554116
We were taught enough to know that Nazi's can fuck off.

>>10554171
Welfare = socialism faggots

Look for me to be picking off ur kneecaps when it kicks off

>>10553522
socialism... lose competition, technological advancement, and motivation to produce good in society for the masses. Give it a decade or two and it collapses into some authoritarian/fascist system of government, rinse and repeat..

>>10554224
welfare isn't socialism faggot. actually it's pretty much mandatory for capitalism(08 crash bailouts and this garbage by your shitty "god emperor" https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/30/full-scale-bailout-for-industries-impacted-by-tariffs-would-cost-39-b.html ) if you don't want feral niggers rioting because they don't want to be the short end of the stick suffering from negative externalities of capitalism without any help.

>>10554238
So the end result is the same as capitalism. Seems like the real issue is corruption in any system.

>>10553747
By the way, it's impossible to perfectly translate "volksgemeinschaft" -- with the most common translations the original meaning is totally lost.

A good way is "togetherness of the people" ...... It basically means the bond/togetherness/fellowship/relatedness that the people feel with each other.

>>10554198
yeah those people who teaught you to hate them also changed your immigration laws to allow anyone to enter and filled your colleges with hardline commies. Its amazing how short sighted some of you fools are. The nazis were literally the only strong force opposing communism at its root, and you allied with the commies to defeat them, only to cry a decade later about the red infestation

>>10553522
Why are you so stupid and ugly, mentally and physically damaged both here and in reality? I have literally never seen you post anything remotely intelligent, original or funny here. All you do is shit up the place with you 8 syllable sentences and let everyone know it was indeed you who dropped that turd of a "thought" on this board.
Thanks to you I have started to advocate for euthanasia to be accessible without any specific reason to everyone, so you could freely end your existence on this planet, because you will NEVER EVER find happiness nor wealth with your cruel handicaps.
Everyone wishes you were dead, ESPECIALLY your family, nobody loves you and nobody likes the idea of having deranged cripple who only produces debt, misery and uncertainty in their family. They might never say it out loud but everytime they look at you they wish you would die already and would stop being a baggage of depression to them.
Maybe you think you are strong just by virtue of existing - but you couldn't be more wrong, the people around you tolerating your existence, the family of yours who carries you as an emotional and financial burden, the doctors pointlessly trying to cure you, THEY are strong. You however, are just a rotting, retarded waste of oxygen and protein.
Do one good and brave thing and end the suffering for them and for you.
Kill yourself.

>>10554321
agree with the corruption part but none of these systems have any realistic way of combating corruption. personally think that a better political system will be brought forth via AI and it will pretty much throw out everything we know today into the garbage.

>>10554171
they prefer to think their country became great because of their ideology (free market capitalism) and not the reality of being hardworking, motivated white people, which is what builds strong countries, regardless of methods

Why are people allowed to post /pol/ threads on /biz/ but we aren’t allowed to post /biz/ threads on /pol/

>>10554271
Your wrong and here’s why

A. The US hasn’t been a capitalist country for at least 50 years

B. I do want feral niggers rioting and rampaging, I can drive out from my cozy plot to the outskirts of the “urban jungle” and go do some target practice

>>10554198

https://youtu.be/uRf8WfuKkEc

You burgers succeeded, long ago already, in becoming one of the most (((brainwashed))) people on the planet, so in that sense; congratulations - you're right up there at the top, very few if any other people can ever hope to compete with you in that regard.

>>10554405
Biz is honestly 60% pol

>>10554356
>allied with the commies
related to that

>>10554405
the decaying state of the west and the slow replacement of your race is more relevant than scamming your countrymen with your meme coins

>>10554419
every fucking board I go on is
>muh pol is majority here

They aren't, they are a vocal minority.

>>10554452
you have to go back

/biz/ is AN ANARCHO CAPITALIST BOARD. Sound money is the literal opposite of socialism. Your special snowflake handouts will be impossible when you can't steal anyone's money.

>>10554348
its the basic understanding that each man for himself makes your country vulnerable and weak. A good dose of inidividualism is necessary for entrepeneurship and to prevent sheep/hivemind behaviour, but too much of it and you destroy the sense of community. This cannot be prevented when money and jewing your countrymen is the central pillar of your society

>>10553522
Because socialism is for complete retards

>>10553522
Biz are largely wagecucks who swallowed enough CIA propaganda to make them retarded, so they chase autism coins and other get rich schemes instead of something that would actually get them out of wagecucking. When their autismcoins fail they'll start screeching about muh gorgillions and how burgerland isn't real capitalism because they have to pay taxes and there's an age of consent.

>>10554498
>Supports building wealth by buying stuff cheap and selling it high to suckers, be it stocks, land, real state or crypto
>Supports lending practices and interest on money
>Talks about stealing others money

>>10554500
This is just how ridiculous bootlickers are. They have no principles or confidence so its always
>j-just a little bit of stealing everyones money and abusing rights p-please
Capitalism should be taken to its FULLEST EXTREMES. Ancaps are the only reason you have Crypto in the first place, and we will be the only reason you don't end up wage slaving with half your paycheck being stolen.

>>10554439

> "The Jews use every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people. In their systematic efforts to ruin girls and women they strive to break down the last barriers of discrimination between them and other peoples. The Jews were responsible for bringing negroes into the Rhineland, with the ultimate idea of bastardizing the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jews might dominate.

> For as long as a people remain racially pure and are conscious of the treasure of their blood, they can never be overcome by the Jew. Never in this world can the Jews become masters of any people except a bastardized people. That's why the Jews systematically endeavour to lower the racial quality of a people by permanently adulterating the blood of the individuals who make up that people."

> -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

https://youtu.be/Hkwy9WZEVSA

-

>>10553967
People can be rich and not work because there are a bunch of poor people working in their place lmao brainlet

>>10554439
>>10554548

>>10554007
>It's not cloudy if only 30% of the sky is covered.
>It's not wet if only 30% of the towel is soaked.
>It's not pollution if only 30% of the world is polluted.
>It's not a health hazard if only 30% of the food has salmonella.
>It's not genocide if you only kill 30% of the people.

>>10554531
who the fuck talked about stealing others money. A sound economic system in a strong ethnostates requires no taxes and gives no one free money on the back of others labour

>>10554571
You, you were talking about limiting individualism. You are against freedom, and your pol boogeyman is impossible because only trailer-trash wants to hurt people for being with someone of a different color.

>>10554598
its not limiting individualism, you are free to do as you like as long as its not harming the integrity and well being of your countrymen. You live in society, you want society to be better cause its also in your best self interest. Muh individualism, muh freedom and muh rights is what justified flooding your country with shitskins

>>10554598
>only trailer trash wants to hurt people for being with someone of a different color
not hurt but they should not be allowed to reproduce IN the same country. United States Naturalization Act of 1790, go read it motherfucker, you that so like to talk about how based the founding fathers were

>>10554635
>its not limiting individualism
>too much of it and you destroy the sense of community
- you
This is why arguing with socialists is such an easy downhill battle. These people mostly hang out in echo chambers where free speech isn't allowed, like leftypol. It makes sense though, they want to deceive people with inflation and taxes so of course they will try to lie.

>>10554660
And how are you going to do that? How are you going to stop people from doing that without hurting them?
Lol @ the socialists who pretend that taxation isn't theft.

>>10554224
Pretty comfy knowing that when the event happens there is a common sentiment it's open season on leftists.

>>10554598
Ironically eliminating race mixing would end 80% of racism, retard

>>10554224
You dumb fuck
In socialism everyone had to work or you would be jailed.
Yet, work was totally chill compared to modern slavery.
Also state gave you funds for half of the house expenses for free, and you got a free land had you built a house.

It had its downsides as well though.

>>10554529
Less than 5% of people report crypto earnings properly. Time to get a new job, Mr. McBootlick from IRS.

>>10554697
It’s starting to bubble up, just a few more years till the dollar collapses/ municipalities go broke

I get the feeling police forces won’t feel up to the task protecting the black lives matters crowd when they aren’t getting paid anything

>>10554671
yeah lets just allow sickos like you to do whatever they please. Go ahead and buy yourself some child slaves to work the land you stole through brute force, with the gangs you bought with the money you got selling legal cocaine. He shouldve bought more guns to defend it, too bad he was jewd by his associate and couldnt afford a defense militia, cause its all about the money. You dont even realise how shit wild shit would turn in an instant in your ancap paradise. While you are busy jewing each other out of your money and having territorial disputes, a well trained and disciplined army like the chinese comes and stomps your ass.
But free speech is that matter right, your right to speak whatever bullshit your shit stained brain can come up with and defend it, even if it poisons the mind of your youth.
You are and will always be short sighted fools who cant see beyond their own nose and couldnt plan 10 years ahead if your lives depended on it

>>10554708
Name one country that became wealthy through the implementation of socialism and is sustainable, you can’t faggot because it’s a fucking fairytale

>>10554692
Its called deportation. Lol and the pussy ancaps who dont have the balls to take back their country cause muh non agression pact.
Taxation is only necessary when you allow jews to govern you

>>10554759
>But free speech is that matter right, your right to speak whatever bullshit your shit stained brain can come up with and defend it, even if it poisons the mind of your youth
"Won't someone think of the children!" the post. Go back to your echo chamber. This is a free speech website and this is an ancap board. Or maybe you'd like to go back to China where calling the holy leader Winnie the Pooh gets you suicide'd, bootlicking statist cuck.

>>10554775
You can't deport someone without hurting them, dumb fuck. So ironic the statist talks about not having balls to defend themselves. Have fun protecting yourself with butterknives, seeing as the state is too busy protecting Mohammed.

>>10554786
and there you have it. Childrens are literally the future but to you they would only be tools for your self interest. Luckily in the real world no one takes you seriously.
>This is an ancap board
Highly disputable
>go back to china
the china thats communist because the ussr survived because cucks like you were helping the jews and commies. Kys degenerate. You literally promote race mixing and child labour, or give two fucks about it, which these days is pretty much the same

>>10554807
well then you hurt them whats necessary to take your country back, pussy

>>10553522
Move to Cuba already.

>>10554765
> Name one country that became wealthy
You are cucked by western pseudo-socialism already
How ironic.
In our socialism, people were equally wealthy, we didn't get platitudes about muh GDP and other memes.
> oy vey goyim GPD is up 4%. You are wealthy. Prices will rocket and you will get another mortgage

In socialism, everybody had it's own house, apartment and a holiday cottage. Without any debt.
SJWs would be slapped and jailed and shitskins were not forced down our throat.

>>10554847
You literally spent 5 posts talking about how you don't need to hurt anyone to have your Zimbabwean orange colored ethno-state. Since you are too retarded to understand that some boards have these things called IDs, just go back.

>Why is a forum about business and entrepreneurship against a system that forbids owning a business and being entrepreneur.

saged

>>10554888
learn to read dumbass, what 5 posts. Go ahead and read the Naturalization Act of 1790. You dont need to hurt or deport anyone when they are not allowed to enter to begin with. Your kind will always defend freedom above everything else, so the freedom of travel and residence is not something you want to avoid, therefore filling your country with strangers is not something you oppose, especially when you can hire them for pennies right.
>Advanced civilizations in history with centralized authority
Too many to count
>Advanced civilizations with no authority
???
You are the laughing stock of any serious historian

>>10554884
> didn’t name a single country

>>10554951
>You dont need to hurt or deport anyone when they are not allowed to enter to begin with.
Top kek. So what are you going to do when an "other person" crosses and refuses to go along with your bullshit larp neet ethnostate. You are a lying retard and need to go back to leftypol.
>freedom of travel
You are literally admitting that travel is a right with this yet here you are saying you want to stop it. You are literally saying something that you know is a right should be illegal. Autism.

Ancap board.

>>10554983
You shoot them, not because you have the right to do so but because its in your country best interest.
>You are literally admitting that travel is a right with this yet here you are saying you want to stop it.
Reading comprehension, learn it. Im talking about your kind. Your kind does not want to prevent anyone from moving anywhere. In a based ethnostate, someone can visit but not stay, unless they are of same race and can contribute positively. This applies to all races not just white

>>10555015
and JUSTd beyond belief

If socialists understood economics they wouldn't be socialists.

>>10554981
> not going to dox my self my country is rather small and located in EE bucko

>>10553522
If the millions of dead bodies left behind by this economic system don’t explain it to you my words won’t help you understand the things you are pretending not to understand.

>>10555045
10/10 bait anon.

>>10554983
>So what are you going to do when an "other person" crosses and refuses to go along with your bullshit larp neet ethnostate.
So what are you going to do when an "other person" crosses and refuses to go along with your bullshit arbitrarily defined private property. You cucked ancap brainlets would literally lose to a bunch of squatters if you did actually "own" real estate property in a stateless society.

>Bitcoin is very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I’m better with code than with words though.
- Satoshi Nakamoto
Ancap board.

Hahahahahaha, yeah sure. Fuck, it never ceases to amaze me how much cringe I can find here.

>Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.
Gee guys, Satoshi sounds like a based marxist. Socialism WINS!

>>10555045
>EE
The shithole galore that never had a chance to develop and yet slavshits still want their iron curtain back.

>>10553638
>those were not rockets
>rockets enter space, they don't explode

>>10555067
Shoot them because we didn't cuck ourselves to have a state take our butterknives.

>>10554116
Because socialism is bad. And it doesn't work. There is no way it will work economically. Ever heard of the knowledge problem of socialism?

>>10555076
>SN is the ancap hero
Oh thanks for making us richer, stupid amerigoy - China

>>10553522
>you can choose to be a capitalist, socialist, communist
>not the class struggle unrolling through time making the changes to doctrine society wide and unnoticeably
protip: true socialism will not be called socialism. it will just happen without anyone knowing, and reversal to capitalism will be impossible.

>>10554692
Miscegenation should be grounds on revoking one’s citizenship and deportation with the mixed offspring to the spouse’s country of origin. If you’re against that, congrats on being a blue-pilled foid basedcuck.

Yes stealing other people's money and listening to a pseudo intellectual as a basis for your economic doctrine while creating one of the most authoritarian states the world has ever seen sure is one of the best ideologies on earth. Hell yeah.

ITT people believing that the USSR and Mao's China represent all of socialism but wouldn't say that literal shitholes Somalia and Ethiopia represent Capitalism, which they do.

>>10555170
Somalia and Ethiopia do far better than the soviet union. Despite the fact that one is a warzone and both literally have every socialist shit policy you could imagine.

>>10555108
But you just cucked yourself to have a single mother thot in yoga pants that went through an ethnic cock carousel called human on par with the brightest people that went down in history. How’s that Marxist equality treating you?

>>10555170
At least with capitalism, there's a chance. Socialism doesn't have a single success story.

>>10555170
They don't, they are not capitalist. They are authoritarian states with huge amount of corruption. While the USSR and China claim and worship the socialist doctrine and people like Marx. They are examples of what Socialist states become. Either they become planned economies with an authoritarian state or they fail and revert back to free market capitalism.

>>10555205
All you can do is think about ethnic cock.

>>10555101
Iron curtain nice poetic name, brought to you by ((())).
Shlomo didn't tell you they have "iron curtain" of their own.

Your politicians praise shitskins, bring them en masse into your homes and force your children to worship them in niggerball jerseys and niggermusic.
You wish you had iron curtain, brah.

>>10555170
Ethiopia and Somalia would be bad under both systems.

>>10555119
>Money is created by the state instead of a privately owned bank
>It is created through public spending, not as debt
>This public spending gives jobs to millions, the focus is on your country infrastructure and industry. The wages are spent on national products instead of cheap imported crap because the focus is always national, therefore not enriching fuckers who when powerful enough will try to take your country.
>The increase in national production lowers price of goods until they remain stable.
>No need to tax anyone because the state is self funded, no inflation because production makes up for the new money entering the system. Taxes tend towards zero in the longrun.
This is true socialism, not what you fought against in the cold war, which is jew socialism which is the same as judaism (communism)

>>10555215
Keep telling yourself that as you settle down for a roastie past her prime, cuck.

>>10553522
this shit always crop ups during bear markets.

>>10555214
>not real capitalism
Everytime.

>>10555248
Ironic when you fail so hard you have to deport every other male. Kek at your life.

>>10553522
>Goes on a board about making money to spout socialist drivel
Have you not taken your xanax today Jimmy?

The only people who defend socialism are public employee wagies, and radical teens going through their /pol/ phase.

>>10555281
>/biz/
>making money
Most of you faggots would have been better off keeping your money in a savings acount than gambling with autism coins.

>>10555245
You are describing what the Soviet Union did. Especially during the Stalinist era. If you abolish private property you are literally doing the exact same thing that the Soviet Union did. Also how can you know the price of a good if you've abolished selling and buying?

>>10555295
Socialism will fix this surely.

>>10555252
It isn't though. You don't even know that Capitalism is. Why are you all so retarded. Somalia and Ethiopia are so far away from free market Capitalism it's not even funny.

>>10555224
Sucks to be you, isn’t it? You are as poor as shitskins, but don’t get the same benefits as them in the West and instead hated in place of minorities, because it’s a socially accepted thing to do. Well, not to say that your culture is that sophisticated and preserved by the people to be swayed down by rapping nigs. In fact, your low-life trash majority enjoys the same themes regurgitated in trap. Go back to drinking your vodka and squatting, Ivanjeet.

>>10555258
Foid cuck confirmed. Gotta respect the queen, amirite?

>>10554410

>>10555300
adjusting until supply and demand are roughly at equillibrium
One problem with the soviet union was simply what it was. For a lot of goods, any increase in price would be met with rioting, even though there was always more money in circulation than the total cost of goods at market. Out of fear, prices were rarely changed.

>>10555245
>>10555245
So in other words, planned economy. Why is this ludicrous idea so appealing to simpletons?
So yeah, you have no idea what the knowledge problem in socialism is.
Central planning will ALWAYS result in famine and shortages, even if you manage to get absolute selfless angels as the bureaucrats (good luck with that either).

Read that last sentence again. Even with angel altruists, you STILL can't make socialism work because of the knowledge problem, when you understand why this is so, you can work on your refutation (if you're still so inclined)
>b-but the law in my fantasy land says that the state must feed me so it must be true

Also
>Money is created by state spending
What is inflation?
I live in Brazil, we had a bunch of retards with those ideias here in the 80's, the state would finance itself printing money, we had to cut three zeroes out of our currency TWICE in less than 20 years, work out what % of inflation is that.
>b-but this time it will work... we'll implement price controls...
hahahahahhahaha the same ideas every time!

>>10555325
> Sucks to be you, you don’t get the benefits

Topkek. You are neomarxist cattle already.
Im fine, you can keep your "benefits" from your overlords.

Enjoy your GDP, your paper money and "benefits", while being unable to own a property and unable to pay medical bills after being shot by nigger.

>>10555413
No, how would you know what the supply or demand of something was if there is no market.

>>10555314
You'd be able to afford an apartment, can't say the same with what most of you pull in wagecucking.
>>10555316
>It isn't though
Yes it is, capitalism is where the means of production are privately held and operated for profit and that is what happens in Somalia and Ethiopia. Saying this isn't real capitalism because the gubbermint taxes you is akin to a socialist claiming the USSR wasn't real socialism because it didn't have direct democracy.

>>10555436
Using the Soviet Union as an example, for most of its post-war history there was no famine to be had, right up to the fall of the wall, when something resembling famine really did hit. It was estimated that average caloric consumption was on par with the west, albeit with a more carb-heavy balance, what with chronic meat shortages.
I mean, it eventually broke them, but that's a whole other can of worms. Soviet economics were super weird.

>>10555504
Because there was a market.

>>10555640
>cucking yourself in for an apartment in exchange for a life-long wagecucking to the government
The absolute state

>>10555640
the modern slave.

>>10555300
no abolishing of private property in NatSoc. Stalin may have applied some principles of nationalism, thats how they got so powerful.
You dont abolish buying or selling either, this economy is not 100% state controlled. The public spending money goes to private corps that buy materials, pay wages and such. The state makes sure these corps are not wasting or stealing money and that workers are getting fair treatment and pay

>>10555436
famines and shortages is due to state demanding people give their production. This is not NatSoc. The state doesnt need to feed you when you have a job that pays well, a house, a car and paid vacations. Jobs are not in shortage when you have a motivated population that see the fruits of their labour instead of seeing it go to shitskins and corrupt bankers and politician pockets
>comparing 1980 brazil to natsoc
i swear you people are braindead sometimes. Whats next Venezuela as an example of why ALL socialism which was ever talked about is nonsense?

>>10555648
Famines that happened in Soviet Union pre-WWII had less to do with the war and more to do with unscientific and experimental farming techniques.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

>>10555436
>if I keep repeating the "knowledge problem" and pretend to be from a third world shit hole full of double digit iq monkeys that will surely win the argument!
Lmao

>>10553638
>It's not Real Socialism™
Every fucking time. Planned economies have been tried a million fucking times and they end in starvation and tyranny every single time. Just stop.

>>10555916
well we don't know for a fact how all those "planned economies" would have actually panned out if the CIA didn't have their grubby hands in everything

>>10555504
I don't know how the USSR actually did it (I imagine they mostly just had fixed prices and attempted to maximize output) but in the Marxist "labor voucher" method you basically just use price signals. People have different systems they suggest, but I'm aware of two big ones and they both can be best conceptualized as trying to answer problems of how to assess costs and how to assess demand. On the cost side, both simply defer to labor hours, which may as well be a kind of accounting method. You equalize measurement of all production costs in the amount of time it takes to make the things. When you distribute the goods and services is where the divergence is.

The first system suggests that you send goods to the stores, which are directed to clear by raising and lowering prices. I think the labor times are displayed in some way relative to the cost fluctuations to let people know if something is being sold at sale or if it is marked up. The store is connected to a computer network that registers price fluctuations around labor content and allocates more labor bucks to the industries that are experiencing shortages and draws labor bucks away from industries that are experiencing a glut of products. Theoretically, the industries with a shortage get higher pay, though this is expected to result in a much smaller range of wealth disparity compared to what we have now. Additionally, interest is illegal and labor bucks are extinguished once spent, and possibly are considered extinguished after an amount of time has passed (to avoid hoarding claims on future production which throws off calculation).

The second method keep all prices the same as their labor content, but adjusts on the basis of how close sales are to approaching labor hours expended in the industry. So if it took 200 hours to make a bunch of shoes and 190 hours of shoes were sold, then you may ramp up production to make sure the store continues to have a slight oversupply of shoes cont.

>>10555880
Lysenkoism, while certainly the worst offender, was more or less par for the course in the list of politburo's get-rick-quick schemes. Khrushchev's obsession with corn pretty much killed the possibility of agricultural reform.

>>10555671
You already cuck yourself out to some conglomerate and you don't even have a place of your own, let alone enough to support a family.

>>10555915
>If I keep ignoring the knowledge problem maybe it will go away
It's literally one google search away anon...

Daily reminder America will forever be in debt and under the control of kikes and it's citizens have no rights (but muh guns)
perfect example of successful capitalism

>>10553522
Serious answer-the inevitable corruption and inefficiency of large bureaucracies

>>10555940
cont.

this slight oversupply systemically avoids shortages with the cost of a marginal amount of waste. Of course, if an industry is experiencing a declining ratio of sales to labor hours expended then it has labor hour allocation drawn out of it. Much like the market, this should act to signal where it is most profitable to use your labor, but it avoids wealth disparity based on ownership. It also vests democratic power over what is produced with the polity, rather than the market strictly, since ultimately this is all a kind of simulated market, though it does have the benefit of avoiding credit crises. It could also be the case that certain industries are granted a naturally higher amount of labor vouchers per hour afforded, like 1.3 for doctors or something (because we like doctors or whatever). This would ultimately be a political, social decision about what labor is valued, though if it causes disturbances in the plan it may be the case that the market indicators like the ratio of demand to labor hours mentioned before will drive a certain job's demand up in response to shortages from the artificially decided pay.

>>10555977
>hyperbole of the year award

>>10556085
Yoir government crashes planes into its own buildings so they can wage a war on a non-existant enemy and waste TRILLIONS of your hard earned dollars
Your government also forces you to pay TRILLIONS out of you hard earned dollars to bailout kike banks that engineered a financial crisis
capitalism at work...

>>10555929
Heinlein's Razor

It's much easier to fuck up your own country due to greed, incompetence, and complacency than to have a boogeyman foreign agency do it the hard way

>>10556117
You seem like you have a problem with the government anon... not capitalism
But yeah, let's give that govt MORE power so they will turn into goody good fellows and give us free money, just vote for the right people!

>>10556195
We are very much nearing a time in human advancement where socialism could work totally free from the inherit corruption of humans
blockchain and AI can do this

>>10556195
if they dont turn into goody good fellows you shoot and replace them. If the replacement fucks you over too, then you got a problem with your people not the model being used.
Problem is you have assumed everyone to be as corrupted and selfish as you therefore you cant imagine the concept of honest, hardworking people running your country

>>10553522
Without reading I estimate 97% of replies are uninformed emotional babble

>>10553522

Socialism... it's just another system of wealth centralization into the hands of a few political psychopaths, isntead of corporate psychopaths.

No thanks. It's either National socialism or National Capitalism.

>>10556290
nationalism doesnt work without socialism.
socialism doesnt work without nationalism.

>>10555940
Oh, the soviet union had it considerably different. The rouble was for all intents and purposed a "labour voucher", but in all the worst ways. It didn't expire and could be speculated one, while after expenses there was always roubles left over that could not possibly be spent (shortage in the soviet union was of commodities at market, not of currency to trade for it). At best surplus roubles were put in savings banks, at worst they were just stuffed under mattresses.

>>10553522

daily reminder to sage, hide, and ignore commie posting

>>10556244
>honest, hardworking people running your country
Refer to my other posts about the knowledge problem of socialism

And lol yeah, just keep shooting them lmao
Honest hardworking people in government top kek, being scum is a huge advantage to any politician, honest people simply can't compete, sorry. I bet you also think Olympic athletes are drug free.

In any case, things will get better as we move to replace people in govt with tamper-proof autonomous execution smart contracts (wink wink nudge nudge), like that anon said >>10556243 but still won't make socialism possible because central planning is inherently flawed.

>>10556377
knowledge problem is solved with technology. To run this advanced economy you need smart people in charge, there is no way around it. One of the core principles of communism is egalitarianism. You seem to agree with them, otherwise you'd know the superior should rule.
Being a scum is only an advantage if they can get away with it. Dont let them get away with it, punish that kind of behaviour, and that wont happen anymore. This cant work if the population is made of passive consumer cucks

>>10553522
>superior economic system
ask anyone that actually lived in socialism (like myself) they will tell you shit doesn't work. at all. nothing works everything is shit deficit spending keeps the whole crap together until it doesn't.

>>10556349
I figured. From what I understand the USSR was incapable of planning most industries because of lack of computing power for most of its history, and the raw human calculation required to direct industries that were planned was unwieldy and very political. The USSR as an entity seems like it was the empire of Russia, since Russia accrued most of the benefits of the union and saw a vast increase in its production and consumption of goods, while the other members of the union had a comparatively slower development process.

>>10556455
thats what happens with socialism financed by debt

>>10556463
socialism must be financed by debt because it is by it's nature extremely inefficient. the motivations at every level are all wrong for reasonable logical decision making and course correction to be possible.

>>10556478
debt IS what makes it inefficient. Problem is all the examples you can come up with are post ww2, and they were all jewish socialism (debt based)

>>10556457
I don't think computing would have saved the soviet union. One must distinguish between theoretical and practical policy: what ought to be done in pure terms, and what realistically can be done under existing social and political conditions.
Y'know, soviet economics were organised in such a way that even if data could be collated and summarised more efficiently, the less a planner knows the better. Being responsible for fucking up in the politburo was harsh, because getting fired meant becoming a potato farmer in bumfuck nowhere. Folks were str8 up yes-mans at the upper-middle echelons of the bureaucracy. Quite a contrast to lower management, who were str8 up cuttthroat bandits. Those were the guys who really made off with the bank during privatisation.

>>10556498
>debt IS what makes it inefficient.
no that's a consequence of the political aspect of decision making. you see it's almost like a fucking parody. completely incompetent people set goals and totally incompetent assholes who have no idea how they could be reached don't tell them so but lie. lie on every level. make numbers come out like planned. but everything is shit in reality.

when people don't spend their own money when they take risk with the wealth of others (as in the country and it's people) you get corruption and inefficiency that doesn't get punished by the market immediately. it festers like cancer. it permeates everything and the system rots.

debt is just how they try to keep it afloat. nothing more than a bandaid on necrotic tissue.

>>10555916
How dumb are you? Did the people own the means of production? No? Then it wasn't fucking socialism.

>>10556666
You can own the means of production by starting your own fucking business, retard.

>>10556666
>Did the people own the means of production?

What's the difference between owning the means of production and sharing the fruit of those means of production?

How are taxes and inflation not a way to share the results of the means of production?

>>10556666
actually you are confusing socialism with communism. socialism is just a philosophical and economic framework that basically means nanny state and large redistribution of wealth and ruling body fucking with the economy left and right thinking they know what people need better than the actual people. that's how socialism is.

>>10556330
this.
natsoc is basically communism, but better

>>10556737
so basically like capitalism but instead of outright stealing your money they bleed it from you via other methods?

>>10556779
>so basically like capitalism
no it's literally the opposite
>but instead of outright stealing your money they bleed it from you via other methods?
no they outright steal all of your wealth and pretend it's everyones but it's sure as hell not yours.

in capitalism there is a fundamentally democratic system where you vote with your wallet. in socialism you have no choice no competing products. no innovation. no business competition that could lead to evolution of products and ideas and more efficient better solutions. all you got is crap that is manufactured so inefficiently it is painful to watch and people telling you it's fine.

>>10556763
No. No egalitarianism, abolition of private property or redistribution of wealth in natsoc.
There is hierarchy based on how much you contribute to the general wellbeing and advancement of your country, which may or may not correlate with how rich you get in the process.
In communism there is no advancement, no way to climb ranks. Its pretty much defined since day 1 you're either a peasant working the labour camps or part of the inner circle of psychos

>>10556763
>better
you lost me there it is like communism period but instead of being naive at it's core it's outright malevolent.

>>10556901
>i got raped by jewish commies in some slav shithole
>thus all socialism is the same

>>10553522
because the /biz/ boys see themselves not as an exploited wagecucks, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.

>>10553522
if it's so superior, how did it lose?

>>10556737
That's a social democracy, you nitwit. Socialism LITERALLY means the people's control of the means of production.

>>10556963
jews are clever creatures and masters at decieving. Here's how it works:
>pick something which benefits goyim (ie socialism which was starting to take off in XIX century among hard working whites)
>infiltrate their movement and corrupt from within (turn into communism, jew Karl Marx)
>keep financing your corrupted movement to the point it can now take over
>once it takes over display its true face, you turned a legit movement into a killing machine
>traumatized people now associate socialism or any related term with this
>cold war, all discussion is polarized, you're either a communist or a capitalist
>either way you win
this is one example they've done it with many things but you need a brain and some knowledge of history to see this stuff being
played. They don't even hide it they've written plenty about it. They love to boast about their success

>>10557100
so socialism is not superior?

>>10557126
only if its run by jews, so thats 99% of cases yes. See my previous posts

>>10556876
>There is hierarchy based on how much you contribute to the general wellbeing and advancement of your country
lool, this is about as much a platitude as commies all being equal or something.
natsoc is communism's ideals but done differently, and better. in communism everyone contributes to everyone else's gain. in natsoc, everyone contributes to everyone else's gain, as long as its your nation.

>>10557169
no in communism you contribute to the state, which promises it will then distribute this wealth, but never does cause they're jews

>>10557169
So a smaller scale version of a shitty ideology that doesn’t work?

>>10556901
>it's outright malevolent
its competitive. capitalism is no less malevolent

>>10557163
so us jews are superior to you whites?

>>10557180
in natsoc you also contribute to the state, which then distributes its wealth. its socialism derp

>>10557182
communism works on small scales

>>10557204
ideally you dont have to contribute shit in natsoc because there are no taxes. The state does not need taxes to fund itself cause it prints the money required for public spending, this leads to inflation but it is reduced the more you produce and the less you import to the point every unit of money you print is backed by real produce, keeping prices stable. Thats how it works if you dont get forced into a world war, then yes it goes to shit like any system would

Why is this thread so laggy is this a psyops?

>>10553747
So why did Himmler write that Nazis are first and foremost socialist, and only after that nationalists?

>>10557048
>Socialism LITERALLY means the people's control of the means of production.
I think that's Marxism my man
Socialism existed as a concept before Marx and his ideas on the means of production

>>10556924
all socialism is not the same. but the core principle is bullshit. if you don't spend you own money only disaster awaits. same shit with capitalism where you get a big government and elected officials spend your taxes but socialism is ten times worse.

>>10557402
>hurr socialism is spending other people money
what part of no taxes in NatSoc did you not get

>>10553522

CAPITALISM AND SOCIALISM ARE THE 2 SIDES OF THE SAME COIN

NEITHER ONE REALLY WORKS OUT FOR THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE

>>10557493
there are two ways to spend other peoples money:
1 steal all the assets from the people and play with it like your own
2 tax them and play with their taxes like your own
doesn't matter how you get to these points really. socialists tend to do the first but plenty examples of the second.

Capatilism may have its flaws and corruption but it's made the world far better than ever. Notice how muh socialist europe nations have just been on American bankroll.

>>10556954

this. ask again at 4k and again at 2k and see how the response goes.

>>10557865
capitalism has it's flaws and left completely unchecked it flat out sucks for the majority of people. but at least it works. you can see clearly when a country has a free market a lot more energy is flowing into it and the country does a hell of a lot better. the individual effort people put in their work is totally different when it's their business.
self interest is the clearest purest motivator you can't trust anyone do anything really but you can trust most people to act in their own best interest. but even if they don't capitalism weeds out the retards pretty fast.

>>10553522
We don't wanna share our money with lazy people & hobos like you, GTFO.

>>10554513
Retarded left cucks watch their girlfriends get fucked by other men.

>>10556526
That is true, though I simply mean to say I dont think planning was possible at all at that stage of human development on the scale of a developed, industrial economy. Now I think the data collection, processing power and networking capabilities of our computer technology makes the planning process much more feasible, though I’m convinced if a socialist economy is to be attempted again that isn’t just a social democracy that is named “democratic socialism”, it would require a system of open information with multiple nodes checking interests against one another in order to regulate it effectively. There would still be a state presiding over the whole thing, which is a point of failure, but it needs checks and balances. In a system where labor vouchers precede production (they are required to be on hand to pay for work done) a central planning agency can be responsible for issuing labor vouchers to the various branches of business, but the actual data network indicating price divergences won’t be in their control. That could be a diffuse database that is using something like block chain technology to make sure no one tampers with it, and the law of the land stipulates that the planning agency has to issue such and such vouchers according to the data they are receiving. Vouchers issued will also be public information. There should be as much as possible no way to lie about production. There is an objective standard for how vouchers are calculated and distributed which is essentially still a market-like system, but the major difference is that all monetary flows are completely transparent, there is no means of wealth hoarding over long periods of time, there is no interest, and there is no market for equity

>>10558037

if it "flat out sucks for the majority of people" who exactly does it work for? Sure it works great for the capitalist class, those who do not have to perform labor because they own capital property and machines and can use that capital to extract wealth from the working class. But everybody else has to be a wagecuck and sell their ability to perform work as a commodity where they can be exploited to further enrich the capitalist who steals the excess value of their labor. Very few people could actually enjoy this relationship of living their life as a slave to a capitalist

>>10558037
it eventually ends in plutocracy, where everyone bows to the inevitable one world currency, and business is concentrated in few hands cause thats where pure profit seeking takes you because of efficiency. Not the smartest, nor the noblest, or the most apt for the task end ruling, but those who were more ruthless and lack morals. Morals and the thought of other person are in the way of profit logically. If you can get away with charging +80% for a product, why the fuck wouldnt you, right?
It also makes nation-states irrelevant as global trade increases and tariffs are reduced. The idea of nation and individual cultures gets in the way of business, it must be done with.
So this guy is correct >>10557641 in a sense, both ideologies capitalism and communism (not socialism) do end up looking very similar when taken to their logical conclusion. Both are rooted in materialism.
All this shit stems from issues philosophers have been debated for centuries, but today people have simplified them beyond belief

socialism is for gays who can't get a job. I'm not paying for you to spend all day trying to suck your own dick and blowing your parents hard earned money on fake internet dollars

Mods are asleep.

>>10558160
>Sure it works great for the capitalist class, those who do not have to perform labor because they own capital property and machines and can use that capital to extract wealth from the working class
no the capitalist risks everything the workers risk nothing. the capitalist risks his money to make more of it. you can spot a fucking commie by thinking anything on this world is free. interest is not free you could fill a thousand books with failed investments.

>>10553522
>doesn't result in overproduction
kek, yeah that's one way to say it...

>>10558160
Workers get work. I know we hate wage cucking here but at least we have work and can feed ourselves with it. Not everyone has that privilege in this world. As shit as life can get it would be much worse to be dirt poor and cant find work and walking miles to get a bucket of water. Capatilism was worse when Rockefeller was openly shooting his workers for being upset and mad but now we have laws to protect against it. Although arguably amazon needs dicking just a smidge in this regard.

>>10558260

>no the capitalist risks everything the workers risk nothing

the only risk for them is that if it doesn't work out they will no longer get to be in the ruling class who perform no work but live off the exploitation of other people's work and will instead have to join the working class in wagecuckery. meanwhile the workers also take various risks in signing their slave contracts, if the company goes under or massa decides to fire them, they can lose everything

>>10558378
The system is dynamic enough in the sense that often rich can become poor, and poor become rich. It is not perfect but it is the best we have in this world and actually let's people pursue their dreams. Unlike cucked socialism where more than half your check gets docked, how is that acceptable to any socialist? You will go on and on about exploitation of the worker but then expect that same worker to give up most of his production by force.. Fucked up anon, at least right now I can put my wage bucks in investments.

>>10558421
>unlike chucked socialism where more than half your check gets docked
Whatever, most workers in America get more of their check docked by their bosses, landlords and creditors taking a cut just to spend on their own luxury.

>>10558493

and then on top of that all their tax money goes to corporate wars and subsidizing workers making poverty wages and to israel and the middle east and next to none of it goes to programs that would benefit our society and improve the lives of workers, so basically you get fucked twice and have nothing to show for it

>>10558493
Commies want a share of the profits without any the share of the risks and responsibilities of running the business.

>>10558777

no, I want workers to have ALL the fruits of their labor and ALL the risks and responsibilities of running the business which will exist to benefit out society and community, not because mr shekelstein is counting on you to work harder and faster so you can buy him another yacht and help him put a car on jupiter while society falls to ruin

>>10558816
workers don't know how to run businesses. that's why they're workers, and why communism destroys economies

>>10558816
What don't they band together to start their own business? If they can't even trust each other, how would be even possible for them to trust a socialist government?

>>10558828

so hypothetically if the workers at walmart guillotined the walton family, who has more wealth than over 40% of the US, and spread their wealth across the workers, you don't think that business would be able to run anymore without the genius leadership of the children who inherited everything from the dead guy who started it?

>>10558777
Workers should share the risk.

>>10558828
They don’t have to. There can still be administration of production. They’re just another worker, like it’s supposed to be right now with managers and executives of public companies being employees.

>>10558895
whats with commies and cutting peoples heads off. you know, you could do everything you said without murdering people, right? I think that running a business is much different than being a worker for a business, yes, and if you actually did what you said it wouldnt amount to anything other than walmart dying. Wealth is relative, if everyone gets rich, nobody would be rich.

>>10558897
its sounds like what you're saying is that everyone gets paid the same amount regardless of their contribution. thats not how anything in reality has ever functioned. Read up on communist countries to see what really happens when people try that.

>>10554224
Same here, if shit hits the fan and I find out you're a commie, I'm not thinking twice about blowing your brains out

>>10553522
only poor people benefit from socialism

>>10559203
>only useless people benefit from socialism
fixed it for you

>>10559191
dude you're so fucking hardcore I bet you bench like 500lb

>>10559191

so you're just going to start shooting everyone on welfare? the neets better watch out

>>10559256
Your kidding yourself if you don't think the commies are gonna start grouping up and """""redistributing"""""' property like african nigs and white farmers.

>>10559203
Not even that, only poor people who don't work would benefit from socialism. Case in point is Obamacare. It only benefited people who lived on gibs. For everyone else, it's just a huge tax.

>>10554759

Unironically agree. That's why National Socialism is the future. No problem with business or a free market where it doesn't interfere with the security of the State, but it's utopian to think it can exist, for many of the same reasons as communism is bullshit.

>>10559414

obamacare is a conservative capitalist health care plan created by the heritage foundation implemented statewide by conservative mitt romney and then nationwide by a neoliberal corporate capitalist in obama, it isn't socialism, it's capitalist bullshit scam masquerading as a social welfare program with the true purpose of maintaining the for profit healthcare and insurance industry and enriching those people