/biz/ - Business & Finance

It's simple. Stupid people gamble. Smart people trade.

There is no difference if you trade the way /biz does.

>>10450377

>>10450377
Really activated my almonds you did

>>10450377

No time limit? Kinda? With gambling it's check what you got and done. With trading you can wait as long as the stock/crypto stays alive which can be decades. Faggots with zero patience like gambling more for that reason.

>>10450377
It's unironically not.

>>10450377
In trading you can literally hedge your bets.

Between trading and gambling, risk management is the only differentiating factor.

>>10450377
Trading starts with a t, gambling, while unbeknownst to the general public, starts with a g.

>>10450670
This.

Long holds of diverse stocks is pretty safe unless you sell during a crash like a tard.
You can consistently make money with day trading too if you take the time to learn simple technical analysis and risk management.

>>10450396
>>10450469
>>10452852
No. I'm tired of this shit. Trading your own money is gambling. I own it and I don't get how other people can't. If it pays your bills or a dinner with your girl once a month and you have a method and you study it and improve and whatever, then maybe you're a professional gambler just like there are professional poker players (and not everybody gets to that level, but they're gamblers). You're being paid for being right on your next best guess and if your boss decides you're lucky you get paid otherwise you have to wait until your next gamble. We can make this more complicated with like hedges and basis trading and capital distribution or whatever but it is what it is. You can make a living from playing poker tables in a pretty safe way, it doesn't change anything.

>>10453030
Randomly place buy orders and you will be right 50% of the time.
Think a little bit about your position and you will be right at least 51% of the time.
Now learn basic stop loss and take profit reward ratios and you will consistently make more than you lose even if you somehow manage to be worse than a monkey clicking buy randomly.

>>10450653
Ehh, I mean, it doesn't have to recover. And if you buy at 1, it goes to 100 and then you sell at 2, that's actually losing a lot of money, even if you're up from your initial bet.

>>10453085
I don't love this concept, the magical 1% appears from just buy low sell high. Being right matters shit, this is about making money. There are people that make a living playing in poker tables, consistently winning more than they lose. I'm not arguing that it's impossible to earn money, I'm saying it's gambling.

>>10453374
Poker isn't gambling you retardumb.

>>10450377
day trading is dead, it was killed off by HFT

swing trading only works with Hedge Funds with thousands of man hours going into every trade

long term trading is almost a sure thing, its why people like Warren Buffet cant lose

It isn't unless you have an edge then you're the house.

The risks are better calculated and managed.

>bet which way you think the market will move
>n-n-no i--i-ts not gambling thats dirty
your stake is your initial investment - stop price
your odds are whatever % you eventually sell at.

its low risk gambling, the resistance to accepting this is the negative connotations with the word gambling, not the mechanic process of trading.

>>10450377
Comissions are lower, competition is higher.

Honestly, it's probably easier to make money if you put a lot of time into certain Poker variants, and can play on the right sites, but being good at Poker isn't going to get you a job.

>>10450377
With gambling, there is a set endpoint. The results are decided and cash is award based on some intrinsic factor. Money put into the pool affects nothing but the payout. Sides of a bet are automatically balanced by pitting opposing bets against each other.

In trading, there is no set endpoint. The results are decided and cash is award based on how every player votes with their cash. Money in the pool affects the value of everyone who went along with the pool. Sides of a trade are inherently unbalanced as more money being invested has a positive feedback on the value of the underlying asset.

Gambling is more honest.

With the proper trading strategy and the right money management you simply take on the casino's edge. Lets say you have a 51% winrate over a sample of 1,000 trades and you use ONLY a 1 to 1 profit ratio. Chances are you made a profit. A good trader will always use a 2 to 1 profit ratio AT LEAST. You make money by sticking to your stop loss and being the casino, not the gambler.

>>10450377
In gambling the house always wins, and there's not a lot of ways the casinos let you be on the house's side. In trading if you notice patterns well enough you can tilt the odds in your favor. Ever so slightly. You don't need to be right 100% of the time. Only 51% of the time

>>10454920
>In gambling the house always wins
the "house" in trading are the exchange and other infrastructure businesses, they still always win
>In trading if you notice patterns well enough you can tilt the odds in your favor
you're still "playing" against other people who are also trying to notice those patterns. you're at no more of an advantage than someone playing poker, less actually when you count in all the HFT and other tech your up against.
>You don't need to be right 100% of the time. Only 51% of the time
same with gambling. the difference with trading (not crypto) is that it isn't a zero sum game. the average payout is still profitable, while in gambling you're short the house's fees

TA, inside info, and a research driven mind will almost always make you win against the house.

>>10450377
how is life any different from gambling?

>>10450377
The main difference is that the money you spend on these shitcoins helps the projects expand and at some point, hopefully, they develop into some kind of product that benefits the world.

But yeah, the money you gain comes from somewhere, and that somewhere is from other schmucks

It isn't. Trading/speculation is gambling. What sets it apart from casino gambling is that if you form a good strategy and stick to it that it's possible to win in the long run.

In a way, when you trade you're larping as a casino. You have no idea if an individual position is going to be profitable for you. But because you (should have) robustly tested your system on paper trading before putting up real money, you know that probability is in your favor. You additionally know that you're going to limit your losses and lock in rising profits by setting stop loss and take profit points dilligently. Also, you're only going to take a position that's 3:1 or better.

Right, anon?

>>10456532
This

I love how many guilliblie idiots are pouring their money into trading and stocks with how accesible it has become and get back fuck all.
Stock market and trading is catering only to the big boys, who use their position to harvest people's savings. You either have to get your shit together before you trade, or are a total moron if you pour everything you have into something you don't fully understand.

>>10453374
>buy at 1, it goes to 100 and then you sell at 2, that's actually losing a lot of money
>if I buy low and it goes up but then goes down, I lost money because its not all time high anymore! Waaaaaah!
Fucking retarded stupid idiots, fuck you. You're so stupid you don't even understand why that's so fucking wrong.

>>10450377
The percentage of large-nosed individuals is higher in one

>>10456660
This. If you're able to be fooled by fakeouts and pump and dumps, you aren't ready to trade. If you want to stand a chance with the big bois, you need to at least be able to spot when they're blatantly trying to extract money from you because they think you're an idiot.

The fundamental difference is that by studying the company, looking at the quarterly results, the dividends, the puts and shorts on a stock, plus past performance and news you can capitalize on movements. You have a lot more control over your gains and losses by setting hard limits for yourself.
Here is the simplest example I can give.
If you buy a stock at 1 dollar, you place a hard limit on your profits and losses. at 1.50 you cut. It could go up higher, but the risk to reward ratio starts working against you. higher risk, less likelihood of reward. But if you sell at a reasonable rate, you make a profit, and are able to secure a gain. In doing so you minimize your total asset exposure and minimize unneeded risk.
You have better odds, if you will, than if you just rolled some dice.
By exercising solid fundamentals, you can develop a strategy that actually works for you. You can recognize pump and dump plays, you can avoid fakeouts, and you can even capitalize on negative motion of the market.
Furthermore, and this is most important, you can learn how to cut your loss in a manner that prevents you from losing too much.

>>10456660
Stock markets rigged by boomers

>>10450377
Everything in life is a gamble. You are always making bets on the future. When you go to college you are making a bet that your education will pay off. When you vote for Donald Trump you are making a bet that his presidency will improve your life.

There's uncertainty to every action. The difference is that gambling at a casino involves almost complete uncertainty. No matter how intelligent or skilled you are, you will always be betting on randomness when you gamble.

Trading is often compared with gambling because markets are complex and difficult to predict. When you buy a stock, you are making a bet on something you know little about. You could minimize uncertainty by studying the data provided by the company. Still, you will never have as much knowledge as an insider. The more knowledge you have, the less likely your actions will be a gamble.

Shitcoins trading is often said to be a gamble because this is a new market with a very high level of uncertainty. However, as the legal framework for shitcoins becomes clearer, and as predictable actors become part of the space (like NASDAQ) we should see a drop in uncertainty, which should at first cause the market to explode and later become more stable.

I wrote all this with my phone.

does this chart look like a roulette wheel to you?

>>10457453
nvm the spread, its not my pic

>>10456999
"Big players" don't give a fuck about your pennies, they trade based on their obligations and simply try to get good deals for themselves.
You only need to learn to recognize price action patterns and nothing else, stop polluting your judgement with imaginary villains.
Read Al Brooks.

>know about the market and put in research on how the price could develop
>check with current market
>if you find a good entry and your risk vs reward is good you can make an order according to your research.
>if your predictions are good you have a higher than 50% chance of being right.

>>10453374
>And if you buy at 1, it goes to 100 and then you sell at 2, that's actually losing a lot of money, even if you're up from your initial bet.

the absolute state of /biz/

>>10450613
Wow, an unseen Funfair meme. It sucks fun memes went to shit.

trading/investments is a gamble where you can increase your odds with knowledge and research
there is a difference between low risk/high return gold mines and a fucking cassino where odds are stacked against you

i sometimes win when i gamble

>>10450377
you dont lose 100% is you fuck up, unless you bought req or something

>>10457830
>what is opportunity cost
the absolute state of /biz/

>>10451015
You can hedge in gamling to... Reducing your risk and exposure but win coeficient...
The only difference in trading you can hold position and not lose unless you sell and wait as long as it take for you to break even.

You can win at simple gambling like Roulette if you understand statistics and don't play every round and also know when to walk away with gains

>>10450377
It's a mix of the Fundamentals of bitcoin with actual use case.