/biz/ - Business & Finance

nice bait OP

Original G - gave us the boom years from 45-70s.

>>10301455
Its still booming

He got all knowledge from playing the stock market and trying to figure it out. Truly a man not constricting himself to theorymongering.

Also embraced the higher sodomy, what an absolute lad.

>>10301467
And yet his view is adopted by litterally every Western country. I bet you hate central banks as well.

Literally a God. PRAISE HIM.

All but one ID a shade of pink or lavender. he certainly did look gaily at economics
>>10301480
this

>>10301493
Centralized banks are fine, centralized banks owned by Jews tho? That's a problem.

>>10301527
Which centralized banks are you referring to? The US banks are not even the largest in the world and theyre public-listed

>speculating in vaporware rather than appreciate the man who was fundamental to the prosperious life you live today
The state of biz

>>10301426
Also came up with bancor. crypto version is a shout-out to him and his ideas. btw whatever happened that shitcoin ? I bought some at the time because I thought it was clever because Keynes was clever. But I think in practice people don’t want determined exchange rates or investors be able to manipulate and generate returns . On the other hand , isn’t he also the guy who advised Churchill to take some crazy monetary steps to “save england” ...which then backfired and Churchill says was the single biggest mistake / regret of his life. not too sure on the specifics but I think historical consensus sides with Churchill and against Keynes on the whole affair. having said that, he’s also maybe one of the only Nobel economists that actually made money in the market (and for that matter, one of the only ones who even attempted the market). Also, I think some of his policies would be less practical today, when the collective actions of average persons can influence markets in complex and unpredictable ways. I think partly his theories assume that markets have to be essentially top down and the masses can’t do much to influence the system as a whole. I’m not sure how true that actually was even at the time, but I think it’s at least a bit less true than it has been today. (See eg all the “unpredicted” collapses, which even Keynes couldn’t account for) but anyway all in all, 8/10, pretty good human.

>>10301426
Keynesianism isn't economics its pyramid building for retards

>>10301426

Fuck off OP.

Also Kalecki was far better at that pseudoscience that Keynes tried to create

not gonna find any love on this libertarian austrian US board full of hayek loving, dick gobbling anarcho cap mongos that have no economic or moral understanding beyond pure selfishness and are unable to comprehend complex causal loops or to develop basic empathy

>>10301723
I agree about Kalecki, hes being overshadowed by Keynes. But explain to me why its a pyramid building

>>10301766
And which Econ texts do you recommend, O wise one?

>>10301700
Youre delusional, the very recent financial crisis was a fucking example of how your free, private markets without regulation e.g. subprime lending and derivatives trading can sell snake oil as gold

>>10301766
I knew it would be a challenge

>>10301829
>inb4 "regulation is what got us into this mess. It disrupted the natural equilibrium which caused the systemic flaws that caused the GFC"

The most important figure of the last century. The moment keynesian economics were set aside over monetary ones, the world as gone to shit very quickly.

>>10301826
I'm all for Keynes, mate, in case that wasn't clear enough. Also: P. Samuelson is your man if you want to get some decent understanding. Piketty is also on to something.
Beyond econ: Rawls and Mill, for some human decency gains

>>10301866
Monetary ones =/= Classical Economics

>>10301921
>Piketty is also on to something.
>worldwide tax on the rich (which is only feasible with a one-world govt)
hmmm

>>10301866
>what is the stagflation of the 70s

from my brainlet understanding, what he proposed boils down to
>when things are shit, the government should borrow money to sponsor public works
>when things are good, the debt made in the previous step should be paid back
Where was he wrong?

>>10301692
All of Keynes interventions are worse than the underlying problems, but they allow politicians to do something and pass the buck to the next generation. But his supporters are so retarded they think more interventions are required.

>>10302022
he isn't in principle. but he failed to sufficiently take into account that due to democratic/populist pressure debt wouldn't be paid back.
he also is disliked by libertarians that don't like sharing with people that didn't luck out being born into a wealthy family/rich country/less fortunate situation in general

>>10301943
on to something =/= apply 100% of his suggestions 1 to 1
good reading comprehension and arguing, though

>>10301829
Bail out and too big to fail justifications for bail outs got us into this mess.

>>10302053
>don't like sharing with people that didn't luck out being born into a wealthy family/rich country/less fortunate situation in general
being forced to share is theft, regardless of circumstance
libertarian are plenty charitable, but you wouldn't know, since the only ones you've met are made of straw

>triggered

>>10302087
property is theft, mate. that's the kicker

>>10302053
>on to something =/= apply 100% of his suggestions 1 to 1
It's his grand conclusion, so you're right it's '1 to 1' because there's only one (((solution))) proposed in the whole fucking book
How about you read some Sowell for actual solutions?

>>10301426
bury lord keynes

>>10302087
Nothing you own is 'yours'. It is guarded by big daddy government for your beta self.

>>10302108
fuck off back to cuba faggot.
that's the kind of system "muh property is the origin of all evils" generate.

>>10302134
btw, why is biz now full of commie faggots?when did this happen? are we reddit now?

>>10302076
They let Lehman fail and it was a catastrophe. If they hadn't intervened, the credit crunch would have taken down the financial system and the whole world goes bankrupt. Now tell me, why is this is optimal solution?

>>10302134
How are you responding to what he says? Property is theft m8, how else could it originate?

>>10301829

But which law made it easy for them to get there in the first place huh?

>>10301676
>btw whatever happened that shitcoin ?
Got wrecked just like every shitcoin.

>>10302087
Move to Puerto Rico if you dont like to pay taxes. Bloody simple

>>10302151
Go back 30 years of bail outs and you create the situation that Lehman faced. If for 30 years the government only insured bank deposits and bond holders and let stock holders get wipped out the banking system would not have been able to socialize it's risk.

Get some context.

>>10302148
Biz and wallstreetbets are under assault for being thought leaders. We are important and the commies know this.

>>10302153
Theft is stealing something, if there's no property in the first place then it's impossible for anyone to steal anything.

>>10302231
Not that simple anon. Insuring bonds holders and depositers creates a moral hazard that rewards banks which take on excessive risk. Stock holders can only lose so much, yet by taking on more risk, they can amplify their gains. Usually, bondholders would stop stockholders taking on more risk, but if they're insured then they don't care anymore.

This is the entire reason for regulation and capital reserves being mandated.

As for why deposits must be insured, this prevents bankruns on fundamentally sound and solvent banks.

>>10302231
So your solution would have been what? Go back in time? That's a little tricky.
Nonetheless I am with you in that privatising profits and socialising losses is a grand violation of economic and moral principles.
But the governing elite saw to that.

>>10302253
the first man to lay claim to anything, particularly land, stole it by limiting other people's use and access of and to it. passing it down only cements this theft. no matter how you slice it, property is theft

>>10302174
You tell me. I do know that Clinton signed a bill in 1999 that repealed sections of the Glass-Steagal Act.

S

>>10301480
Holy shit. Is the entire western world really using a system a literal faggot came up with?

>>10302322
>Is the entire western world really using a system a literal faggot came up with?
FUG. I think you're right.

>>10302262
No you retards, bailing out stock holders and then creating a system where bankers are paid in stock creates the moral hazzard. You must be retarded because the bankers pay should be at risk if they fuck up.
>>10302271
The solution going forward is to only take care of bank deposits and bond holders and all other clients get it in the ass if the bank fails. The culture will change and so will risk management.

>>10302487
sounds nice in theory but the economic pullback caused by the following stock market losses and general despair prohibit this
too big to fail is actually more than a meme

>>10302289
so according to your retarded logic, I should be able to use all your property without you doing anything about it?
even if someone is working in a land using it to survive, I should be able to just stand there and use it as I please, even if I don't work on it?

>>10302561
>I should be able to use all your property without you doing anything about it
these kinds of implications of the origination story of property aren't in any way changing it the story

>>10302487
Dude im not arguing for bailing out stockholders. I'm just point out the fact that if you insure bondholders, you still create a moral hazard. This is because a stock is similar to a call option, where the option strike price is the when the assets are worth the fixed liabilities to the bond and deposit holders. The stockholders have limited losses, but unlimitied potential gains.

So solely insuring bondholders and deposits holders creates a moral hazard, you NEED regulation if you insure bank deposits.

>>10302589
what? learn to write please.
just go to any place where there is no private property, you know how those places work.
you simply can't deny that, private property = better quality of life for everyone
no private property = poverty and no liberty

>>10302677
What are you arguing against? Certainly not the thing I said.
Learn to read.

>>10302514
To big to fail wasn't a meme, it is the justifications to bail out shitty but large Institutions for decades and creates more moral hazzard. The best way to get to be too big to fail is to take on a massive amount of risk and leverage during the bull run then get bailed out at the beginning of the bear run.

Stock holders should be wipped out if the bank fails. Non deposit clients assume risk dealing with the bank. If people know this then they won't be so fucking retarded.

And if we didn't have the MACs out there we wouldn't have had anywhere near the same bubble. We need to stop socializing the housing, education, and real estate markets because that inflated the bubbles in the first place.

>>10302710
Learn to write retard
>aren't in any way changing it the story

>>10301692
>>10301700
>>10301723
>>10302317
Cringe

>>10302668
What is the rate of return on a bank bond compared to other opportunities? That is the degree of moral hazzard, and it is almost zero compared to equity.

>>10302739
Not an argument. I am sure you don't have one.

>>10302720
I concur with most of what you say. However, what exactly do yo mean with
>socialising the markets
And I am with you, stock holders SHOULD be whipped. But the price of this was deemed to high at the time which I think reasonable. The real mistakes were made during the last 5-7 years: going back to business as usual, liberating markets even further, setting us up for the next crisis rather than putting measures into place that would hold stock holders liable and minimise said moral hazzard

dick sucking lips

>>10302850
Look at the role Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae, and Sally Mae and other Government Sponsored Enterprises distorted their industries. The biggest bubbles exist where the government intervene the most. These organizations never should have existed and we need to end these methods of government intervention entirely.

according to
>real gdp per capita
east germany btfo west germany in 1970s

>>10301465
there's only so much increase you can achieve by making women work outside households and monetizing random shit

>>10302997
Here you are going to far. It's not that simple. As >>10302668 said, government intervention is essential. We can't do without. We can do with a more farsighted one that's less heavily influenced by the oligarchs running business and thus politics thus society.
One quick, final cut as you are suggesting is not going to be the solution. The turmoil would be too big

>>10303098
Economic shock therapy has an outstanding track record, so you are wrong.

I’m just glad his point about fiscal austerity during good times was scrapped. Leaving the spigot open will lead us to the promised land.

>>10302153
>literally gives no argument, just says "property is theft"
>expects anon to argue against a single sentence
Are you even trying now, Shareblue? And I'm not even a libertarian.

>>10302869
He was a literal faggot.

>>10303135
economic shock therapy might work in the long run but leads to revolution and (civil) war short term.
good for the economy I guess but I'm not willing to pay this price in blood

"Printing money and lending it with near 0% interest rates to already wealthy people so they can make easy money is good for everybody"

Truly the most based person to ever live. His scam is still ongoing.

>>10303219
>"Printing money and lending it with near 0% interest rates to already wealthy people so they can make easy money is good for everybody"
>t. Hayek

>>10303149
>Shareblue
Is this some circlejerk of yours? Other people caught up with what the argument in that post is and argued with it. Your just a brainlet.

>>10303250
Am I wrong?

>>10303213
You are the problem and the reason we need to throw commies from helicopters.

>>10303287
>resorts to violent right wing polemic hatred when out of decent arguments

>>10303279
OP is picture of keynes, not that austrian twat

>>10303250
>any Austrian supporting low interest rates
>ever
what

>>10303271
There are several arguments that people like you tried to make about "property is theft". Which one are you even talking about? The fact you've literally just posted a single liner and expected anyone to argue against you shows either that you are either dumb (and so are everyone who has tried to answer you), or don't really want a honest debate and instead want something else, whatever it may be. Shilling perhaps.

So, why is property theft? Let's talk about your idea first before I can answer anything.

>>10303250
>Hayek
>Printing money
(you)

>>10303271
And also,
>you're*

>>10303322
Keynes is the guy who made the keynesian economics system which supports printing money aka inflation. Hayek is some austrian economics guy so idk what you meant by that "t.hayek" after my quote.

>>10303362
>>10303331
>>10303325
> what is quantitive easing?
> who prints money?

>>10303219
Ancap brainlet. Even Friedman was for a central bank

>>10303396
> what is quantitive easing?
The injection of money in the monetary base.
> who prints money?
Government.

How is any of this Austrian? Again, I'm not even a libertarian.
God, is /biz/ clinically retarded? I thought it was a meme.

>>10303414
>government prints money
heard of a central bank, mate?
have you done econ 101 or ever opened a book?

>>10303322
You got the order wrong.
>Socialist implement awful policies
>People realize the cure is worse than the disease
>We start fixing the problem
>Commies rebell (you said this)
>We put the rebellion down
Then the commies like about what happened and brainwash the next generation of kids. We need a final solution to the Marxist question.

>>10303431
What?
You think any private entity can simply go and print USD?

How... How are you even breathing?
8/10 troll.

>>10303431
>implying he was wrong

>>10303445
that's what a central bank does. by definition that's it's main purpose
i'm gonna give up on you guys though and remember this for the future. utterly hopeless
>>10303439 in particular

>>10303445
Central banks are independent but works closely with the government

>>10303488
Then try and print money in your home, then tell me what happens. Just tell the feds (and the FED) you identify as a central bank, sure that will work.
You exposed yourself as troll, that was a nice one though.

>>10303488
I hope to see you purged.

>>10301595
the federal reserve you retard. Do you even know what a central bank is? What are you talking about US banks? They have very little to do with the fed, which is a private entity with private stockholders that manipulates the money supply by artificially changing interest rates, when the market should be making this decision.

>>10301766
>Keynesian
>moral
Tell me more about the morality of theft.

>>10303596
Apparently it's moral for the government to steal from citizens to give to useless overpaid bureaucrats while if that money wasn't taxed it would end up invested in third world countries where actual productive workers would be able to get jobs..

>>10301426
It's good to know his systems will soon be gone, as crypto has allowed us to move back to an austrian based economy. Fuck Keynes, I hope he burns in hell.

>>10303648
>Assumes heavy bureaucracy doesn't come from Keynsian policy
>Assumes Africa can be developed without white supremacy

>>10301426
ITT raging tinfoils show just retarded biz is. Might want to understand how Keynesian economics work before you try to bash them kek.

His theories did help post-war recovery, but they were never meant for peaceful times, and will inevitable lead to a new war due to their inhumane nature

>>10303584
Conspiracy retard. The fed is sheriff in a market of cowboys, and interest rates are determined in the market, faggot.

>>10301766
How is the poverty generating system developed by keynes moral?