/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10224252
the field is saturated shit. pay gets lower every year. unless you're in SF, it's not worth it.

>>10224252
the only fags who will tell you it's great are the ones who already have been in the industry for 10-15+ years, they're from a different generation of programmers. new comers are getting fucked harder and harder each year.

>>10224252
You're a 'coder' not an engineer. No one will hire you go to school.

>>10224276
Really?
Fuck. I was myself thinking about a way to make money by learning a new skill cause I'm wageslaving in a terrible job. Guess programming might not be the way.

>>10224252
>Can i
If you need to ask, it's obvious you can't

>>10224276
Wow I really wish I knew this before taking my 39 year old friends advice. Spent a lot of money going back to school to learn how to code and still can't find anything.

Can you?....not with flash.

>>10224252
No. For more go to >>>/g/

>>10224361
Don't listen to that other guy. There is plenty of work out there. The hard part is landing your first job though. Nobody wants to hire a junior who's just going to get in the way. Get an internship, work on side projects, commit to github, etc. and keep looking. You'll get there eventually.

>>10224393
>make a whole portfolio and work for free and maybe, just maybe one day you can land a job as a junior developer in an ever saturated job market

your first programming job is going to be the hardest to get. after that, you're good. find a way to talk up your ability to learn fast on your own. that's the only think companies care about when hiring junior devs.

>>10224252
not with flash

So many bullshit job titles these days, no

>>10224407
Work for free? I never said that. The internship better be paid.
But yeah...you gotta work on side projects while you're still learning and show what you can do if you want to be taken seriously. sucks, but that's how you make it in this industry.
...or just give up. I don't give a shit anon.

>>10224444
>spend all this time to jump through all these hoops to make less than a welder, a truck driver, an air traffic controller, a nurse, a deli manager, a....
thanks for proving my point. the bullshit requirements to get into the industry get more ridiculous each year such that it is no longer a desirable field

Don't listen to these people OP, there are still plenty of jobs in programming and there are more every year, your options are not limited to development, the security sector in particular has many jobs available

>>10224483
Dude, I make way more than the jobs you listed and I get to work from my own fucking house. Nothing else I'd rather be doing as a wage cuck.

>>10224252
learn anns and you could make it

>>10224495
I honestly believe there are shills on 4chan - I see shill threads all the time saying "HURR WHY DONT YOU GET INTO COMPUTER SCIENCE YOU CAN MAKE SOOOO MUCH MONEY". Whether you're one of them, no clue - but they definitely exist on this site.

It's just to attract more people to even further saturate the field so employers can pay even less. Microsoft and Google even met with Obama to have him push programming in elementary schools because they didn't want to pay as much in the future for labor.

>>10224444
You really have no idea how bad things are. I applied to 700 jobs and while I got like 4 interviews, literally no one will hire me. I'm wagecucking in retail as a result and my only hope now is that the market recovers and I get back to my ATH and cash out and build a giant mining rig.

>>10224252
That's fucking weird, OP. Flash has been dying for awhile now and this would be an understandable switch 3 years ago.

If you are late-30s don't bother going back to school. Tell stories about floppy disks and fucking around on command line. Go on about how ECMA/JavaScript used to be the wild west and how much you've enjoyed watching it grow up over the decades. Complain that there's just minor paradigm shifts every half decade and that everything's just the same shit mixed up different ways. For bonus points go on about how your dad programmed mainframes then things went PC then networking industrialized and things got cheap and went to the cloud and that's just mainframes and peer to peer is just going to be fog. Also bitch about waterfall and agile but say that continuous integration is irritating but not so bad.

Just be an old, self-taught fuck but make sure you can put up if anyone calls you on it. No one will ask you for a diploma. If they do, sneer at them, laugh and offer them a free pen test before you leave. You know, cause fuck all has really fundamentally changed with servers in the last couple decades.

>>10224310
This guy is a faggot and deserves to be cast into the void by an old fag.

>>10224501
No one is hiring entry level or even mid level for remote work. You are the aforementioned generation of programmers who got in when the industry was good.

>>10224252
look at these disgusting degenerate faggots. probably europeans. filth.

>>10224252
If you need even further proof that this field is already saturated to shit - just look how many programmers are on 4chan and look how many anons want to be programmers too

>>10224252
If you want an easy job, join a not for profit and do some work customizing whatever open source software they are certainly using. Make sure your contract allows you to slap your name on their git, or (better) host the modifications on your own. You will get paid something, seem like you were doing something that resonates with normal people, and you'll be given more license to learn on the job while you punch below your weight class for a year or two.

>>10224252
Yes, but it'll be harder to get your foot in the door. Employers prefer people with a diverse skillset, so just knowing flash won't cut it.

>>10224523
>applied to 700 jobs

Get someone to look at your resume. Personalize it to the job. Do freelance work to build your resume, get skills, and extra cash at the same time.

Start networking, most people get jobs by knowing someone or getting recommended. Go to events relevant to the field you want to work in.

>>10224561
>grind for 2 years just so you can maybe have a chance at getting an entry level job

this is the kind of shit I'm talking about OP, the industry is fucked up

>>10224529
No shit no one is hiring remote juniors...I'm not a junior dev. I doubt very much that the entry level job prospects are a whole lot different than they were 4 years ago though. Some of you fags are so easily defeated.
>too hard...better to not try at all.
Do what the fuck you want. If you want to be a programmer, then be a fucking programmer.

>>10224579
It is fucked up. It will burn you out. It is what it is though. Not everything in life is a cake walk. Make of it what you will. For me, it beats the hell out of welding or truck driving or whatever the fuck else though.

What fucking field isn’t a saturated?
Serious question

Source, nobody cares about your faggot ass programming job.

>>10224529
People told me 10 years ago that there's no future in programming, but I still managed to get a software dev job. Every field is saturated. There's more people people applying for McDonalds than there are people applying for programming jobs.

>>10224641
Jobs that people perceive to be shit because a whole generation of people have been told to go to college for a better life. Basically a lot of the blue collar jobs.

>>10224667
>worse woman for marriage
>generally lower class tier population who eats poptarts

>>10224667
I worked blue collar for a while. Every single guy there was over 40. They are not going to have anyone to go into management 20-30 years from now. Any youngfag that gets into a big shipyard or an industrial plant or a big diesel shop is going to be making bank by the time they hit 40.

>>10224678
What?

>>10224667
Those jobs have their own problems though and it's ignorant to act as if they don't, not everybody can just be a welder or a plumber with no repercussions

>>10224252
>Can I actually get a job in the tech industry without having to go to college?
Yes. I dropped out after I learned I could literally just learn everything myself using search engines. Also college is a (((scam))). Currently have three years of professional experience as a software engineer & devops

>>10224689
I used to work trade jobs too. It was fine in my early twenties, but that shit is hard on your body. Those 40 year old guys are mostly alcoholics who look like they're 60.

>>10224667
Like what this guy said >>10224703, these jobs have risks. Many trade jobs involve you being exposed to toxic chemicals. For example, if you're a painter, you can lose your sense of smell over time from the paint fumes.

>>10224703
He asked what isn't saturated and I told him blue collar jobs. I know health and possible automation soon are some of the problems. Though now that I think about it, maybe certain blue collar jobs are overcrowded. Car mechanics might be saturated since lots of people are enthusiastic about cars and I knew a couple of people that were really into cars and became mechanics.

>>10224641
Seafaring

>>10224776
If you're a programmer you get carpal tunnel

>>10224444
Yeah but if it's someone's dream job then just making enough to at least get by should be worth it. It's the only real reason to get into the industry if you ask me, is because it's your dream job and you think it will make you happy. If it's not your dream job, then there's definitely no point like you said

>>10224252
>Can I actually get a job in the tech industry without having to go to college?

No. Fuck off.

>>10224797
Not with this wrist brace I been rocking.

>>10224893
meant this for >>10224483

>>10224913
link?

>>10224276
>the only fags who will tell you it's great are the ones who already have been in the industry for 10-15+ years, they're from a different generation of programmers. new comers are getting fucked harder and harder each year.

I've been in it for 20 years and loathe it. It gets noticeably shitter every five years. Quality and skill has fallen off a cliff since 2005 and software and hardware has more in common with used car salesmen on their first day than doing real business. Its a shit career and I wish I did something else. As regards you OP I don't hire self assessed bullshit artists or brown people with some poxy vendor certification.

>>10224893
That's not exactly realistic though, for me my "dream job" is working in film, but there's no point going to school for that and it's really difficult to make a living only doing that, so I have to compromise and do something that I somewhat enjoy that pays better, which is programming, while hopefully I get to do something with film in the future.

>>10224483
>>10224483
>it is no longer a desirable field

It never was except from 1992--1999

>>10224928
I had a really nice one long ago but they stopped making it. Past 5 years Ive used this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BEECTC/

>>10224947
>enjoy

Nothing to do with it. You do what people will pay you for because then need it. Not what you fucking enjoy. If work was fun then people would pay to do it not the other way around.

>>10224950
Well, is there a better job that could be done remotely or while being generally autistic?

>>10224968
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. The enjoy part is for my benefit, not for theirs. The middle ground is something that I find personally enjoyable to produce but is also something that people need.

>>10224991
SEO memeshit, most likely. But it is not actually better, it just has a fairly high ceiling if you can get into paid traffic or make risky experiments on your clients' dime

>>10224527
This is such a comfy post

>>10224941
what do you wish you did?

>>10225227
Something that actually pays. But without graduating from a target school, my only option is in sales, and sales suck.

Real talk from oldfag developers. How do I focus? I find excuses not to work on my coding and generally feel burnt out.

>>10225300
adderall

I went from software engineer to software architect in 2 years. Self taught/bootcamp retard here. I dunno if its worth the money. If I had worked some shit jobs in all the time I spent studying, I'd prlly have more money now and insanely less stress. Fuck computers and the nerds that came up with this stupid shit I could've been an artist

>>10224252
Why would you want to work in the "tech industry" when you could spend a few years making a game, selling it on steam, and then retiring at 25 with endless passive income for the rest of your life/

>>10225300
Coffee, hobbies outside of computer stuff, friendship, and regular sex.

>>10225541
>games
>making money
not sure if trolling

>>10224407
It's really not that saturated. Most people are too stupid for this stuff.

>>10225827

This, and sitting in front of a computer all day and working with it is simply not for everyone. Natural barrier of entry

>>10224527

Unironically my entire business plan in a nutshell. I pretend I've been in since the early 90s, hire pajeets for shit I need to cover, and stay up to date. Doing well as a freelancer.

>>10224941
Skills fallen off in coding, problem solving, or like math? I'm in CS right now and I'm doing best I can to not be a shitty programmer.

What the fuck are you retards doing wrong? I graduated college two years ago and got my first fullstack dev job three weeks after my last day of class, before my graduation ceremony.

And then I got a better job with a 50% pay increase, catered lunches and a beer fridge a year later. Are you all fucking retarded or what? This is in Toronto.

I am sick and tired of this. Every day I come to /biz/, and every day there is at least one thread up with an OP image of an attractive woman dressed scantily and posing seductively. It's probably the same one or two people who do it honestly. Let me tell you something, you faggot pieces of shit who are doing this: you are the poster child for everything that is wrong in business, finance, and society as a whole today. You are incapable of coming up with anything informative, thought provoking, or of substance, and you lack even the smallest modicum of intelligence, so you use "style" and "flash" and pizazz in place of it and to draw attention to yourself, because that's the only way your SHIT "thread" and ideas would ever get seen by anyone. And before you say anything, this has NOTHING to do with the fact that I don't have a girlfriend. Anyway, I will be petitioning the owner of this website to ban your asses, so enjoy being able to post here while it lasts, because it's not going to last long, just like you that one time you convinced an obese girl to let you fuck her.

>>10226064
Son, if you are not making 6 figures in real dollars, you've failed in life as a dev. Toronto is infamously underpaid among devs, I bet you make USD 60-70k at most

>>10226101
>Every day I come to /biz/, and every day there is at least one thread up with an OP image of an attractive woman dressed scantily and posing seductively.

stop looking at it.

The hiring process for tech is so extremely ridiculous that I'm thinking about unironically going into a trade or truck driving or oilfields.

>>10226210
Just grind leetcode for 300 hours and do projects for 600 more. Can be done in 3 months. Good luck.

>>10226101
YOU MUST GO BACK

>>10224641
Surveying, anything in the health space involving old people, that's about it.

>>10224276
lmao what

I've literally never sent an application that didn't result in a job, and my LinkedIn is being spammed by recruiters

2 years professional experience, 2 years school

>>10226101