/biz/ - Business & Finance

I invest all my money into LINK so that I'm always at a net capital loss.

>>10185598
baste

>>10185574
just don't man, I had it all and fucked everything up by trying to avoid taxes

fuck off
you are either a false flag government shill or an ancap manchild

>>10185598
/thread

Wow the irs is really hiring the best and brightest these days

>>10185574
Go to /out.
If you need more guidance you are too stupid to work on a farm and you're a city slicker.

>>10185574
Agricultural seeds are not taxable
Setup a company that sells crypto for sunflower seeds
Sell all your crypto
Grow sun flowers
Eat it all
Become a fat celebrity on youtube
Move to tax haven
Monetize your channel
Make good content
Count your profile

>>10186106
IRS pls go

>>10185574
If you don't want to pay taxes then I better not see you on our roads you manchild.

>>10185574
you unironically can't.

if you use a fiat exchange and legitimate banks, you will be reported to the IRS and dept of treasury for large transactions. if you sell through localbitcoins or other peer to peer services, you will sell to FBI narcs since everyone uses those services to buy drugs so they'll hit you with money transmitting charges, tax evasion, and possibly drug related charges too.

hire an expensive tax attorney with loose morals and maybe, just maybe you can avoid some tax but you cannot evade it.

>>10185574
Yet another IRS shill thread.

Fuck off you public servant parasites

>>10185574
> launder 100% of your hodlings into Monero.
> launder back out into Bitcoin
> use Bitcoin to buy gold bullion online
> take gold bullion to pawn shop
> take cash from pawn shop to money order place
> use money orders to pay all denbts
> don’t pay taxes
> don’t go to jail

>>10187165
You could just skip the whole gold bullion and pawn shop steps completely by selling your btc directly for cash on local bitcoins

>>10187165
Skip gold and go straight for cash via localbitcoin or OTC trades

>>10187158
>what is income tax
>what is fuel tax
>what is sales tax

The government has done nothing to foster growth or offer protection for the people in the realm of crypto currency, therefore you have no stake in what people do with it. This isn't like the stock market with thousands of financial regulations.

>>10185574
Its gonna be difficult, a multilateral treaty in automatic information exchange was drafted this year in the tax matter.
basically all the bank around the world will have to adress yours informations about you bank account to the IRS if you are american for exemple. Theorically IRS may see if you purchased any coins because they know the intermediaries.
Only solution is to open a bank account in non cooperative state in fiscal matter.

I'm european studying tax law but I haven't heard of tax prosecution about cryptos for now, it seems that tax administrations are oldschool boomers and they are afraid/not interested in this.

>>10187915
>I'm european studying tax law
what country?

>>10187946
France and Switzerland

>>10186118
t. statist cuck longing for a cock in the ass

>>10187982
that's great! how much do you know already? I would need some help, do you know anything about crypto taxation in Switzerland? What about international taxation and tax treaties?

>>10187998
I know that cap gains are 0 in Switzerland for private persons, but am interested in the "professional investor" definition, how exactly would you know if you are a professional if you have been trading crypto?

>>10188015
if you know any cases regarding crypto taxation and think you can help, leave any email where I could contact you tomorrow.

willing to pay if you know what you are talking about
or if you can't help, do you know anyone who can?

>>10185574
my main method of theft evasion is to be self employed.

instead of paying roughly 50% of taxes and various "social contributions" i only pay 7.5% this way.

others net is around

>>10188065
* others net is around 53% of what they cost the employer but there is also a huge vat on everything. i get around vat by ordering from abroad.

Simple go to a “Citadel” a safe haven where there are BTC early adopters live

For example, Puerto Rico there’s many over there

The IRS cannot do SHIT to you because you’re not in FUCKEN USA

But you got to become Sovereign first to be free!

>>10187982
pls respond

>>10187998
For now switzerland treat crypto as wealth, and is taxed yearly at a very ridiculous rate.

But there is two problems :
(i) First you need to be a Swiss resident to benefit from the swiss tax laws and be taxed yearly on your cryptos (US/CH tax treaty). For now swiss administration willingly don't give a shit about this to attract rich people in their country.
(ii) If you are american and a resident in switzerland, you are still taxed on your world income. In normal time you ask the IRS to apply the tax treaty between US and your country of residence and they give you a tax credit based on the amount of tax you paid in your country of residence. For exemple you earnt 100k in CH in a wage job. Both USA and CH will tax it in your exemple because of your nationality even if you are swiss resident. Swiss will tax 25% and US 25%, you will pay 25k in CH. Then you will have to pay 25% in US too, but according to the tax treaty,IRS will give you a tax credit on what you paid in CH => 25k. Then in this case you will only pay in CH.
But if for exemple CH had a 20% tax rate and US 25%, you will still have to pay 5% in US because the tax credit amount is 20k.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/swiss.pdf

But this exemple doesn't works in our case of cryptos. The tax credit from the tax treaty only apply on incomes thats the two countries treat as same. for exemple you can't have a tax credit in US on business income if the switzerland treated this same income as shareholding income. its called "mismatch qualification". it results in a double taxation, most of the time its no big deal and the tax administrations find a solution.
But for our case the mismatch qualification is due to the newness of countrie's provision in this matter, Switzerland treats Cryptos as fortune income but US treats Cryptos as shareholding income or may be as sale of shares. In this case there is a mismatch and you can't have your tax credit. (incomes are treated differently in both countries).

>>10188015
see >>10188259 if you are a non professionnel investor.

Its different if you are a professionnal investor.
I don't know the solution in Switzerland but I know it in France, I think its pretty much the same because both tax systems are similar

You are a non professionnal if you place orders only to fructify your fortune and you are a professionnal if you places orders to speculate.
The mains elements of distinction are the frequency of orders (Years or months VS daytrading). there are others elements like if its your job (for exemple a trader doing it for himself, bankers knowing the market and investing with their private fortune etc)

In our case if you are american you really should go live in CH and declare these gains as a professionnal because there will not have a mismatch qualification like the non professionnal investor that will have to pay in US. Both countries will treat your "professionnal" income as an independant income and the tax credit from the tax treaty will be enforceable.

>>10188259
thank you for the reply
I am european too, not US

>>10185574
@ the end of the year leave your country and don't return. Travel/settle in tax heaven. Once you have been gone a year (generally) you can return for less than 180 days a year...unless you are a mutt, then you need to get a second passport & relinquish your American one.

This is legal btw...

>>10188467
so what I'm concerned about is whether Switzerland would tax me on wealth if I became a tax resident there, or if they would say I'm a professional investor

some facts:
- I have already cashed out gains of like 40x initial
- Holding period from 5 years - few days
- using derivatives only to hedge basically
- trading only my own investment
- no job

>>10188467
You should have said this before omg
In your case its really easy, just go live in CH and you will be fine, yearly fortune tax with low rate on your cryptos...
It could have a mismatch qualification but there is no probleme here because UE countries don't have a world income taxation like US. only swiss can tax your cryptos because of your swiss residence.

>>10188438
so basically, is there any way to actually know whether you are a professional investor beforehand? or do you just have to wait and see

how easy it is to get away with just declaring it as wealth, do you think they would demand looking at trading history and so on...

>>10188515
yeah so I mean my country (finland) - Switzerland tax treaty basically says
if you are resident of both countries you will be seen as resident where you have a permanent home or something similar, but I'm just thinking I will get somehow fucked on the professional trader thing because I don't fulfil these critereia

>>10188549
"The holding period of the sold securities was at least 6 months.
 The total of the purchase prices and the sales profits of one calendar year do not exceed five times
the value of the securities and assets as of the beginning of the tax period.
 The capital gains on securities are not necessary to cover the living costs (this is generally the case
if the realized capital gains do not exceed half of the net income in the tax period).
 The investments are either not leveraged or the earnings (e.g. dividends) exceed the pro rata interest
on debt.
 The derivatives (especially options) are bought and sold for hedge purposes only"

>>10188549
so that's why I would like to know if there are any examples of cases regarding crypto... well anyway if you think you can help me more or find any sources in french/german I would really appreciate it.

if I could pull off 0% on all gains with your help I'll give you 10k lol

>>10188505
Remember that these elements are verified only if you are prosecuted after a tax administration investigation.
There is maybe zero chance for you to be investigated and you maybe declare your income as non professionnal for ever without problem.

Or you maybe will have problems if you state this as non professionnal. I think that if you have no job you will trigger the curiosity of the tax administration (AFC)

Don't worrie in 2019 most of the tax rate of independant income (professionnal investor) in every state of switzerland will be at 13%.

its better to pay 13% and be safe than 2% and risk the requalification of 13%+penalties+fine+interests

>>10188598
I see, good info
maybe if I got a job in Switzerland they wouldn't check that much

>>10188636
the problem of course is that my realized gains this year would exceed job income by a lot

>>10188598
anyway if you want leave some email address or some way to contact you that would be really great, gotta go sleep now

>>10188596
There is another probleme to consider, Switzerland is restrictive with foreigners, you will need a B or C licence to live there. you can get one if you find a job in switerland or if you create a company.

>>10188677
nirvana74140@hotmail.fr

>>10188691
oh I see, yeah I would ofc need a job, with a job you become tax resident in 30 days. But not worth it if they declare it professional because that is tax + social security so it's pretty high

>>10188707
thanks

>>10188716
I thnik you should start a company if you are a good trader. Invest money from clients, easiest way to get in.

>>10188074
moron

>>10185598
FPBP

>>10187915
Yep it's like FATCA took a moon pill and evolved into an hyper agressive pill that fucks you in the ass.

Nice comment Anon you ab international tax bruv too?

Oh wait I've read it, you too are an European studying tax law. nice

Sell coins into Monero or other privacy coin, then back into Bitcoin. Sell Bitcoin into hard cash.
For big purchases you will have to make a business and tag everything a "business expense". Unfortunately though they will still steal your money through sales taxes and taxing the people you buy from.

>>10185598
chinklink strikes again

>>10185598
Toppest of keks

I use bitgoy.tax because it makes me feel safe from the almighty government.

>>10188472
Definitely don’t do this as a Mutt. IRS has the power to apprehend you at immigration and customs.

>>10187440
localbitcoin is shit, use payfair.io instead. no KYC

reported