/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10112681
Companies can’t afford to give their employees that —> people get fired so unemployment goes up.

>>10112681

this

>>10112681
I used to work for a non-profit retail company and I have no idea how they're going to make it work

>>10112730
I am actually serious, I want to know why minimum wage should be completely abolished.

>>10112751
Also I live in California so it's already going to happen in 4 years

>>10112681

>the LCD gets paid $15 an hour
>employers either lays off, cut corners, raise/passes prices to customers, closes down, or automates as much as possible because of price shock on their end
>companies with enough capital will automate as much they can and lay off the bottom rungs due to substitution effect
>employers becomes even more selective since they'll opt for employee retention over high employment
>job seekers rat race for the few vacancies that are available, has little to no bargaining power since employer has a long line on the other side of the door of prospective candidates unless they're applying for some high turnover/specialized occupation
>unemployment goes up due to low vacancies but large pool of job seekers, adding additional stress to welfare/social services

That seems to be mostly it unless I'm missing something.

>>10112681
Because if everyone is getting that as a minimum, the minimum costs for everything will go up.
Example: As soon as landlords find out you have to get paid more, they'll raise rents cuz they can. Plus employers didnt get that way by being stupid---they'll lay off people and make the kept employees become more productive (i.e. work more) to keep the profit status quo. Econ 101 type stuff that escapes logic of so many many people.
>Communism works in theory...IN THEORY

Maximum wage is actually a better idea. No job is worth more than, say $1 million per year. Argue on the cap maybe, but it's the best idea

We have a minimum wage that high in Australia and the only problem is that employers get around it sometimes. People on minimum wage spend most of their money on living expenses anyway, so paying poor people better is far better economic stimulus than giving tax cuts to rich people who just sequester it offshore.
But muh socialism muh Karl Marx muh etc.

Shit will be fine in large cities which are already overpriced like Seattle, NYC, etc... which have big healthy markets and giant employers who can eat the costs. Ultimately it won't solve much for the low and underemployed, but it will be a nice bump.

It would be a fucking disaster for medium sized and rural communities.

Minimum wage needs to be pegged to cost of living and inflation.

>>10112710
>companies can't afford
>record profits

sounds like if you can't afford to pay people a livable wage then you have a broken business model

>>10113143
Fuck you, Communist. You'd rather give free gibs to nigs who will waste the money rather than letting someone who knows what they're doing keep it and expand much much further. If we did what you want, technology would stagnate

>>10112681
I unironically want poor people to die

>>10112681
minimum wage is a shit idea in general. if it worked then the only sensible thing to do would be to set minimum wage at 20 million dollars. let people work one hour and be set for life. it doesn't, though, all it does is make low value people unemployable. if you can only produce 5 dollars an hour worth of labor i'm sure as fuck not hiring you for 15 but if there's no minimum wage then i'm happy to give you the job and let you get your foot in the door.

>>10113200
People are living off of a dollar a day in half the world. How the fuck is the current minimum wage not a livable wage?

>>10113200
Amazon may have record profits, but they don't pay the minimum wage. McD's does pay minimum wage, and they operate on tiny profit margins.

>>10113222
What if you become poor

>>10112728

Mass automation is happening no matter what

>>10113429
Where the fuck do you live where all you need is a dollar a day

>>10113479
Im unable to become poor, unironically.

>>10113429
>People are living off of a dollar a day in half the world. How the fuck is the current minimum wage not a livable wage?

Is this an actual question you somehow can't figure out the answer to? I mean I know a bunch of people on /biz/ are dumb NEETs, but this is an amazingly stupid question

It's a good idea. It increases tax revenue and boosts spending in the economy.

>>10113489
I see those ads on TV all the time.
People in Somalia are living off of a dollar a day in Somalia.
For a dollar a day you can feed a kid in Ethiopia. Shit like that.

>>10112760
>I want to know why minimum wage should be completely abolished.
that's not what you asked in the OP.
it shouldn't be abolished completely, but it should be kept in line with inflation. raising it too high too quickly actually speeds up inflation and automation, not to mention causing massive layoffs. Big companies can afford it but it will cut into their profits massively and they will restructure their business accordingly, almost certainly to the detriment of their employees. Small companies will have to downsize as well or else go out of business.
There is a reason minimum wage workers make so little, it is because their jobs are easily replaceable. Kids can and will do these jobs. If a 15 year old kid can do your job you shouldn't be making a lot of money.
Summation: Cost of living goes up, businesses downsize/automate/go bankrupt, workers lose their jobs.

>>10113612
wtf I support high minimum wage now

>>10113143
Yeah, lets keep poor/middle-class people from ever getting rich. 1%ers don't make their money from salaries, dummy.

>>10112681

Higher minimum wage would just make the price of everything go up in order to make up for the higher cost of paying employees, therefore negating any benefit.

IMO there should be no "minimum wage". Let the free market decide what your time is worth. If people aren't willing to work for $8 an hour, companies are forced to increase their wages.

>>10113200
Also
Obesity is the problem in America's poor, not starving.
Poor people across america are literally getting fat off of the current minimum wage.

>>10112681
Makes the dollar worth less when you can get 15$ an hour by just working at mcdonalds. Mcdonalds workers don't realize raising minimum wage is just gonna make all the money they've earned already worth 25% less.

>>10113792
Dollar is already fucked. Put as much as you can into gold and crypto. Actually, make it in crypto first and stock up on gold.

>>10113143
>maximum wage
I think you mean something more like maximum income. Maximum income also doesn't work. The whole minimum wage / maximum wage thing is retarded. A big brain move would be something akin to "guaranteed surplus credits." It's not like the USA doesn't waste a metric fuckton of goods and food. Giving a surplus credit to all Americans wouldn't hurt the system if we had regulations that would tax unnecessary waste and subsidize resourcefulness/sustainability. That said, enforcing those regulations would be difficult and need to be thoughtfully written so that the end result is a reallocation of "waste" to "citizens of the united states"

>>10112681
it's useless if you raise wage but purchasing power go down because employers must also raise prices

>>10113735
Poor people are fat because they eat garbage food. Where I live, fruits and veggies are very expensive (PNW), so the poor turn to processed food as staples.

How about, instead of having worrying about a set minimum wage, we just copy what European countries do? Italy has mandated paid vacation time (usually more than a month), Germany has workers as part of their companies governing panels (50% of head company officers have to be recruited from the common workers), Finland has abolished private schools, and has the best education system in the world, many, if not all of the socialist European countries have universal healthcare... I can go on and on..

but it's only in America where we have shit pay, no time off of work, shit health care (even if you get it through your job your deductable is going to cost thousands) and a mediocre education system, despite spending more money on it than anyone else.

So what's the deal here? Why does America suck so much ass?

>>10113861
>How about, instead of having worrying about a set minimum wage, we just copy what European countries do?
At the least, we are a different country, culture, legal system. many implications.

Italy and Germany arguments look like they'd be good to implement in american corps. On Finland, private institutions don't play much of a role in the USA. Private universities are just cloisters for the children of the ultra rich to jerk each other off while the unwashed masses pull the curtain over the general public's eyes. pretty much inconsequential.

>where we have shit pay
source? We're at least top 15 GDP per capita (PPP). Our GINI index isn't good, but it's not so off balance where it's easy to claim that GDP per capita (PPP) is meaningless.
>no time off of work
I agree
>shit health care
healthcare is it's own mess. To my best knowledge it's world class but really fucking expensive for that reason. I'm no expert, so you can disregard my statement. Insurance companies and bargaining and something and lot's of free market bullshit, something something states vs. fed gov.
>and a mediocre education system
regarding primary and secondary, it depends on the state and township. for tertiary, the rising costs are related to excess federal subsidies for baccalaureate students and excessive and unnecessary spending on bullshit like sports complexes. Our post baccalaureate education is arguably the best in the world.

anything else lefty angst bro?

>>10114102
oh, additionally our infrastructure is in desperate need of an update, the people must start demanding transparency from public officials, big US ISPs are absolute cancer, and US broadcasters needs to have their roles re-evaluated and responsibly self regulated or regulated by an impartial 3rd party (both impossible...).

>>10113130
oh sweet child of mine

>>10112681

It's not.

>>10112979

Unemployment is a good thing if your political platform is based on gibs

>>10113200

If you look at the s&p500, you'll realize it's heavily skewed. The top 20 companies represent almost 80% of the gains of the whole market and the rest lose money most years.

>>10112681
>waaaaaah I have no social mobility while working a literal slave-tier job because I've never thought outside of the box in my entire life

>>10113861
I don't get it.
If there's a continent full of countries with those kinds of policies, why not move there?
People who like liberty and small government can't just move to Canada. There's no other country with small government to move to

>>10112681
In short it is bad because you should earn your wage and not depend on the government. Learn a skill devote your time and better yourself, strive for more money. Itll feel so much better when you earn it. Also if there a 15$ minimum wage you going to so layoffs and the robots will be taking your orders at fastfood sooner than later

Because it is an anti-economical pipe dream spread as a virtuous cause by naive twats with little to no experience outside of a university setting

a bit too low
a half decent takeaway feed is about $15

>>10115319
>America
>small government

>>10112681
Need $15/hr. Don't want to starve.

>>10116048
>How about, instead of having worrying about a set minimum wage, we just copy what European countries do? Italy has mandated paid vacation time (usually more than a month), Germany has workers as part of their companies governing panels (50% of head company officers have to be recruited from the common workers), Finland has abolished private schools, and has the best education system in the world, many, if not all of the socialist European countries have universal healthcare... I can go on and on..
is what I was replying to

>>10116078
>Finds only fat person in the audience to use as an example

This guy

>>10113429
>>10113555
The dumb fucking kids on this site I swear. No wonder half of us feel like boomers when the other half of the users are blithering idiots.

>>10112681
>dude just like, create more money so everyone is rich!

>>10112760
Unironically Milton Friedman
To sum up, if you force employers to not employ people unless they are productive enough to justify a wage above the constraint, you're effectively denying all those people the opportunity to take a job and gain skills and experience that would provide them better jobs later on.

At least that's what it is in a capitalist and free market society. And the current response is "just impose 'diversity' quotas, and make it illegal not to employ certain people for 'equality' reasons" is tilting western societies toward communism. Just look at how communism has turned out when it has been applied and consider whether it is what you want to have happen in the West.

>>10112681
I'm actually conflicted friedman says that the imposition of minimum wage will curtail oportunities for those who cannot sell their labor in the stablished cap. However by marx standards imposing companies to search alternatives to low skilled workers automation is thus accelerated which in medium term will be the most beneficial. I see them both sharing a point on this one, even when raising the minimum wage would be actually the selfish move.

>>10112681
well it's got to be better than the current system where employers pay $7.50 then encourage their workers to make up the difference with welfare

>>10113130
>>10113216
the current system wherein mega corporations use government gibs to subsidize wages is closer to socialism. i don't even shop at walmart, why the fuck should i pay their employees?
>le trickle down maymay
except what really happens is they take the extra money to wall street.

>>10116198
friedman also wrote that corporations in a free market have a civic responsibility to the populations they serve. you shear the sheep. you don't skin the sheep.

>>10112681
>make 15 dollar a min wage
>small towns and small businesses have to raise prices considerably
>mega established corps can take this loss or adjustment with 0 effort
>reason to go to a small shop over a chain decreases
>small chains suffer mega corps in cities grow

>>10113814
Well it'll be fucked even more and worth even less overnight.

>>10112681
32BJ is by far the worst cancer.
My organization (sadly) runs union workers from 32BJ and everyone's utter shit even the reps know it.

No one even profits from it. NYC needs to implode already.

High minimal wage kills low-skilled employement and countrysides/small towns, for the benefit of big metropolises only.

pretty sure minimum wage is actually down if you account for inflation from 30 years ago.

$15/hr absolutely is possible

>>10116366
this THIS

>>10112681

>>10116366
>mega corporations (who can take the loss easily) pay out more to their employees
>that money goes directly into the communities where those employees live
>small, local businesses in those communities benefit from the influx of capital

>>10112681
>Company employs min wage employees
>Now you have to up the labor cost meaning less people will get the job and they'll have to do more
The funny thing is that this is in effect taxing those who employ lower wage employees to employ these people. Thats why this policy is so popular with out of touch middle and upper class burgers, because it has zero impact on them while making them feel good.
The funny thing is that if you really thought the min wage was bad and these min wagecucks needed a pay increase you'd support subsidizing them through taxing higher earning companies and use that to in subsidize these min wage employees by adding this tax to their income. But that'd inconvenience all of these people who just want to feel better.

>>10112681
>What do we want?!
>More Satoshis!
>When do we want it?!
>Within a reasonable transaction time!

You would have an excess supply in the labour market for unskilled labourers if a set wage higher than the equilibrium (where the demand and supply of labour meet) which shows market inefficiency.

- Econ fag

Econ student

>>10113429
>>10113555
>american education

>>10113429
>people in underdeveloped third world countries who are piss poor live on a dollar a day

>>10117221
You can't debunk them though.

>>10117264
I can, in shithole contries where a large part of the population is in poverty, then in order to get money out of them at all, prices have to be exceptionally low. hence $1 a day is livable, if uncomfortable.

>>10112681
>unemployment will skyrocket
>businesses will go bankrupt
>cost of living will skyrocket
Its the commie equivalent of "lets just print more money so everyone will be rich!"

AVERAGE personal salary in the US is 36k, which is roughly 18/hr. We cant all be average

>>10112681
i want a $15 minimum per LINK

>>10113130
Basically this.

Because if you're generating less than $15 per hour for your employer and they have to pay you $15 for it, then they just won't hire you.
You'll be worse off because you're unemployed, and they'll be worse off because you could have otherwise been generating income for them. The economy can only ever suffer it's subject to price fixing.

>>10112681
why not $1 million minimum wage? Seriously, if paying more money will solve any problems than why not pay more than $15? There has to be a reason, right?

>>10112681

Explain why we should double wages instead of making everyone sell everything for half price,

It involves the government. Administrative workers are the laziest, least productive and least intelligent people imaginable and you want to give them the responsibility of administering minimum wage people have to live off of?

>>10112681
In theory, it would be a good idea. You have to remember that when the minimum wage was invented in the earlyit was intended to be an anti-immigrant program to keep out migrants who would perform cheap labor, and also to forcibly unemploy people that social planners considered useless. Of course this didn't quite pan out, as people just paid Mexicans under the table and we put unemployed people on welfare and pay them per kid now.

It would probably drive automation, at least, which is a good thing.

>>10117991
>invented in the early 1900s

>>10113222
i want rich people to die so i can get their money
shit is just that i am in comparison to other countries filthy rich

>>10117208
>implying the labor market is perfectly fair in the first place with agents in equal possession of their agentivity
>Economy student
sure thing kiddo

>>10112681
It isn’t

>bringing up europe as as a good example
name the last time innovation happened in europe, even the japs have surpassed them and they were literally peasants 100 years ago.

>>10112710
>>10112728
Automation happens no matter the wage-the real cost of minimum wage jobs is workers comp and other such bullcrap

>>10112760
Because Singapore exploit their neighbors

>>10118065
Litterally all technological innovations in the last 20 years come from Europe or Japan you retard.

>>10113479
He'll khs

why should i pay more for goods and services because a large number of worthless human waste is incapable of getting a job that pays?

>>10113503
What if you get robbed?

>>10113651
Free market needs to be kept somewhat in check. If everyone was able to just choose to not work for $8 there would not be a problem, but that is not the case.

>>10118364
>Free market needs to be kept somewhat in check.

Then it wouldn't be free kys

>>10118364
The problem is that fixed nationwide minimum wage is a stupid cap.
Minimum wage in bumfuck nowhere, countryside is an extremely comfy pay, wheras in any major metropolis it's a retardely low pay. If there was no minimum wage, companies would be flocking to the low-pay, low-cost areas and make them thrive. Right now, the minimum wage simply keep countrysides and small cities down.

>>10118372
Do you mean to say that everything that is not completely void of law or control can never be called free?

>>10118402
Yeah, that makes sense. I was just arguing about the market in general, not for minimum wage.

>>10113861
I don't completely disagree with the entirety of your post, but there is *one* thing I feel I have to bring up.

Of all the countries you listed, the largest (Germany) has a population of 83 million, rounding up. The US has a population of 325 million, which is almost four times as large. Socialist programs such as universal healthcare are much easier to manage in smaller countries.

The economy of scale works as a bell curve, not a line. There's an optimal size for any operation that reduces cost, but beyond that incurs diminishing returns. Excuse my vague terminology, but while large systems may achieve efficiency, extra large systems become increasingly inefficient. Excluding Russia, the US is larger than any one country by both population and geography. Expecting it to be able to provide services such as education to its citizens as easily as smaller countries isn't all that fair.

That is *not* to say that there are other problems our country faces that can't be attributed to this, nor is it saying that these problems are too big to fix, nor is it saying that things are fine the way they are, etc. But, you did ask why America can't provide decent education to all its citizens despite spending more on it than anyone else, and that's part of it.

>>10118638
>Excluding Russia, the US is larger than any one country by both population and geography.
Forgot the eternal leaf huh?

>>10118650
Sorry, I meant any one country in Europe. Canada did not factor into my thinking at all, but I just woke up so there's that.

Though, like 90% of Canada's population is clustered along a belt that runs along the border with the US and some of the eastern coast. It's not dispersed the same way the US pop. is

>>10112681
1 - mostly kids from mid class families work min wage job = for extra cash, not the main earner
2 - not everything is a McCorporation you retard, the majority of companies that are affected would find it difficult to deal with these losses = lay offs
3 - people are paid roughly according to the value they are contributing, so if youre still working min wage after 15 years, youre probably a brainlet = kys
4 - Also, even if layoffs dont occur, increases in costs will be passed to consumer = inflation = no real change in wage

>>10113861
>he doesnt understand CICO
>he never took a physics class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hds9tFMuU8o

It's not a bad idea, it's just never going to happen on a large scale. Although, companies might raise wages for the few employees they have left.

>>10112751
>Print more money
>money worth less.

>>10113429
>living off
the words were 'barely surviving'

>>10113503
sure thing, kej

>>10118763
He's not arguing against CICO you fucking troglodyte. He's arguing that many poor people primarily eat fast or processed food because in many parts of america it is more affordable than buying fresh food. There's also a huge gap in public knowledge on proper nutrition.

Shitty food has loads of calories and isn't filling. You can eat a meal with 800 calories in it and still feel hungry. Don't believe me? Go drink ten cans of soda and eat an arby's sandwich for lunch. Assuming you manage to keep all of that shit down, you'll be hungry again before the day's done.

It's not hard to figure out why people subsisting off of cheap, calorie-dense, non-filling food have higher levels of obesity.

>>10112681

It's not, in fact we were supposed to raise it to that over 10 years ago to keep up with inflation.

>>10113130

That's not econ 101, that's just jews being jews. Go live in other countries and their rents are reasonable and they raise the minimum wages more regularly. Actually Japan's minimum wage is already higher than half the US and their rents are lower. That's what a country is like when you aren't dealing with jews constantly.

>>10113735

Actually it's car culture making people fat mixed with bad food. If we walked to work and everywhere else we would be much thinner.

>>10118837

CICO makes sense but it's also retarded. Someone who eats high protein low sugar looks different than someone who eats McDonald's even if they both lose weight. It's good for fat asses I guess but people who actually want to stay thin for life shouldn't have to count calories like than autist every day.

Adjusted for inflation and GDP growth, the minimum wage, when it was instituted, was ~$22/hr in today's money. 15/hr is still lowballing a bit, but it would be a huge step in the right direction. The economic data shows that it would be a very large net boon to the economy as a whole.\

I will say though, that I would rather abolish the minimum wage entirely, and institute a UBI for all citizens over 18.

>>10112681
The jobs that pay a minimum wage don't even deserve the $7.25/hr let alone $15

>>10112728
>>10112710

High wages do actually incentivize capital investment and R&D to reduce costs, which is a good thing. Spurs innovation. When you open up massive markets for rat wages like overseas developing countries with billions of workers, you cause companies to just build sweatshops there.

in frogland we have the equivalent of a $13 minimum wage, as a result there's less low end jobs available. i was amazed to see how clean everything is in america. that's because you can pay a bunch of people peanuts to clean everything all the time. in france those same people will be collecting unemployment benefits instead, and while some of them are leeches, others would legitimately prefer to contribute to society if only for the sense of direction it gives them; but employers can't afford it
in fact, the whole system is so fucked the state has to subsidize heavily certain minimum wage jobs for employers to hire. for example home helpers (nurses, cleaners, etc.) can be subsidized up to 95%. this creates a negative loop where your business succeeds based on your connections and asskissing, as non-subsidized employers in the same sector clearly cannot compete
i see some rose-tinted glasses views of european countries in there. strongly encourage you to come spend a year in the countries you talk about. socialism can be nice if you're in line with the majority opinion, but it's ruthlessly cruel if you differ in any way from the norm. there's a reason america has all the zany furry types and blue-haired people, and perhaps that's not something worth bragging about but it does show you can express individuality. in a socialist country, individuality is stomped without mercy. life in america sucks if you're poor and dumb, but anyone smart can make a better life for himself in america than in any european country

>>10112681
Being on the bottom sucks. Expanding the size of the bottom to be wider means more experience misery.

There is no such thing as a minimum or maximum wage, only wages.

>>10112681
Do you actually believe a fucking guy standing still and flipping burgers deserves $15/h?
It will be interesting to see the 2020s, robots performing these simply low paying jobs in mass will make these losers to fucking angry.

>>10113651
Like the industrial revolution? Where the 1% owned like 99% of all money and people worked for scraps. Yea great system buddy. Pure free market and monopolies are cancer

>>10119523
everyone deserves a living wage regardless of their job.

Nobody cares for your edgy nihilistic fatalism. Libertarians and /pol/-tards are fucking divorced from reality and their fellow man, so I wouldn't expect them to understand.

>>10112681
the internet makes it so easy to communicate with each other, so why do they need the goverment to step in. They dont have the balls to do a mass strike by themselves.

They prefer to waste their money instead of saving up a bit so they can tell their employers to fuck themselves if they pay you too little.

It is their own fault. They need to prove that their labor is worth enough that a strike could cause massive losses.

>>10119523
you sound like a loser to be honest

>>10119450
This.
Neither companies nor customers don't want to pay that much for low-tier services or goods, and it ends up creating a job market that is pretty unforgiving for anyone not having the right degrees, skills or experience.

>>10113178
This is the answer, but Burgers will never learn.

>>10119450

In France shit is dirty because you imported Muslims not because wages are higher dude lol

>>10116198
This

>>10119688
>work in shitty job that requires no education, experience or effort and has a high turnover rate
>"Why can't support myself?"

>>10119747
They don't need to do anything. If voting gets them a $15/hr minimum wage then that would be just as effective as anything else. You may not realize this, but they do strike. There have been several strikes in my city this year by franchise employees for $15/hr.

>>10119523
It doesn't matter what you're doing, if you're valuable enough that somebody needs 40(+) hours of your time to do something, you should be paid to live. That is the proposition. You could be a call center monkey, it doesn't matter.

>>10119688
What is a living wage ?

>>10119819
looks like the strikes arent working then and their time is not worth 15$/h

>>10112681
because it should unironically be 0

>>10119828
More state and locals have been implementing the $15/hr wage, and more politicians are picking it up retard. They're on a winning streak.

>>10119822
Different by region realistically, but $15/hr is catchy and buys low wage workers more shit. That's it, it really doesn't matter. People are struggling and they want more money. But it should also be pointed out that the BLS numbers show that the lower end of 2% of the workforce is at or below minimum wage. So it's really a tiny fraction of GDP. Legislation would just be kicking up the bar again. In the 70s and 80s I think it was like, up to 15% of the workforce at minim wage, I can't remember.

>>10119893
So you think that nationwide the minimum wage workers should be paid 15$ ?

>>10118122
I'll have what you're smokin'.

>>10119949
What technological innovation did come from the US in the last 20 years ?

>the amount of good goy corporate footsoldiers ITT

15$ per hour
120$ per day
600$ per week

2400$ a month for fulltime.
Burgers can complete how much you have left after TAX. Let's say 2000$?

Rent 800$
Food 500$
Utilities 300$
Entertainment, going out 300$
Savings 100$

Why even bother?

>>10119937
Sure, it won't be perfect but it will funnel more money to the working class. Ideally I think it'd be paired with other policies to help develop more underdeveloped regions that could be hurt more by the rising wage, but the whole thing just entails a macroeconomic adjustment to the new standard. $15/hr is such a small portion of GDP (not even just the 2% at or below minimum wage right now) I don't think it is going to somehow throw the economy into total disarray. It can be phased in over a couple of years. Prices are sticky, but if they actually go up much in food service then we'll probably just see more people eating at home. I think frozen meals have seen spikes in household spending before, less people will go to McDonald's for lunch/dinner. Overall I don't think the economic lit on minimum wage hikes shows that $15/hr will decimate the industry. Usually it reduces hiring more than spurs layoffs, and mostly in very young age groups.

>>10120022

Food should be 200 a month max. Rent can be lower if you split with another person. Entertainment too high, just pirate shit lol
Savings is fine, put some into 401k too.

There are people that will never be able to bring 15$ per hour of their work, they don't know the language, they have disabilities, they're not very bright, etc. And then you add taxes, benefits, insurances, and we're talking about 22$/hr easily.

These people might be capable of performing really low skill jobs, such as, carrying the bags of a customer, helping people park, etc, but with minimum wage they cannot do those jobs, cause those jobs are not profitable at all over a certain threshold.

This also applies to young people, who have no experience whatsoever and usually tend to be an investment for companies, you invest in their education to gain a worker in the future. With 15$ minimum wage these young people would never stand a chance, they would simply go with the safer route of hiring an experienced professional.

Then minimum wage is usually applied indiscriminately on all of the country, which leads to migration towards big cities of companies and people, depopulating rural areas, 13$/hr might not be a good wage in New York but it's a perfectly fine wage in most of the country, but if you force companies to pay 15$ in the ass of the world, they might just go to New York and gain in connections, since you're taking competitive advantage out of small cities with more affordable housing.

So, you remove viability of some jobs, forcing people to unemployment/living off other's taxes, removing their economic output and thus reducing total purchasing power, you make your own products more expensive which leads to people buying more imported goods, you overpopulate big cities increasing their houses prices through induced migration, and you force people to carry their own bags.

Why don't you tell us why it's a good idea instead?

if you adjust the minimum wage from the 50s, the supposed American golden era according to trump cucks, for REAL inflation it would be like $30/hr today.

>>10112681
Roger Ver, Jihan Wu, Calvin Ayre, The 8btc mod (19hZx234vNtLazfx5J2bxHsiWEmeYE8a7k), Jiang Zhouer, the bitcoin.com cofounder, the Coinbase founder - all BILLIONAIRES who can complete the flippening with their own cash TODAY. They're not doing so because they'd rather invest in BCH adoption. BCH adoption is skyrocketing while btc adoption is dropping. In a few years both St Kitts and Antigua will use BCH as their main currency (Roger is working on St Kitts, Calvin is investing in Antigua more money than their GDP exclusively because of BCH adoption), Craig Wright will increase transaction counts by circumventing corrupt governments in Africa for money transfers (this one is not certain but very possible considering his funding), Roger is speaking to VIP-s every other day, including Japanese bank CEO-s, stock exchange owners, etc. Brian Armstrong will push BCH and shit on BTC subtly every chance he gets, bitcoin.com wallet is the most popular mobile wallet and it literally shits on BTC, propaganda/censorship effects are fading, Purse just added BCH meaning that normies can use it to get 20% discounts on amazon, Koreans love BCH and they seem to matter at least as much as Americans and significantly more than eurofags, miners are looking for ways to destroy BTC in the next few years otherwise their profits will crumble, LN is proving more and more of a failure every single day, Wright will patent-troll startups into moving into BCH, tipping on github is now possible with bch, smart contracts are coming in November, stress tests are a massive success, charities are popularizing BCH in struggling countries (Venezuela today, others will join in if trouble arises), Free Society project is progressing well, Circle is adding BCH next few weeks, Ayre who became a billionaire from gambling is going to create BCH-only online casinos

>>10118903
Yep, walking for 40 minutes everyday will cure obesity

>>10120022
>Entertainment, going out 300$
How to spot a "not gonna making it"

>>10112681
Prices of goods will follow with the increase in wages from doing nothing different from what you initially started with. Your salary would ultimately fall on the Customer and those who offer the same goods or services will compete against you with more attractive prices.

>>10120095
The legacy of the 50s and 60s is industries leaving the US and Japan and Germany rising to fill the gap.

>>10112681
minimum wage workers are niggers

>>10120093
>they have disabilities, they're not very bright
Why subject those people to be bag carrying slaves for <$7/hr, even part time, when that probably doesn't support them and the window of possibility on the labor they could do is apparently so low value? This is a small portion of the workforce, just give them disability or put them in a home and be done with it.

>This also applies to young people, who have no experience whatsoever and usually tend to be an investment for companies, you invest in their education to gain a worker in the future. With 15$ minimum wage these young people would never stand a chance, they would simply go with the safer route of hiring an experienced professional.

Companies have generally been failing to do this. People USED to work for companies long term in decades when the amount of the workforce working at or below minimum wage was higher. So the minimum wage isn't the key variable here, something else has caused "company men" and long term careerism at certain companies to die. We can see this in the way the business culture is marketed as well. There used to be books analyzing and even praising the development of the firm in the 50s around careerism and technocratic, managerial capitalism built off of experienced people who knew a single company's busines/industry inside and out. Since then we have developed into "business school" capitalism, where the belief is more that anybody who knows "business" can quickly become the manager of any company. The ideal right now is to be variable, change your skills with the wind, be an independent contractor, or a serial entrepreneur etc.

>>10120022
>>10120053
>>10120145

Listen up cucks.
You can turn these numbers around as much as you want.
If you are over 25 and make 2000$ a month and don't live in the woods or a town of 5000 people then good fucking luck.

>>10112681
Inflation.

By the time the minimum wage is 15$ the USD will be worth even less. So it's not really a raise.

USD is doomed. Fiat is shit. Get a skill or education or wage cuck slave until you die.

You thought the richest stay richest because they pay you higher wages? No. They stole everyones resources and money and we the 99% are fighting over the scraps.
Why would anyone fucking need 10B dollars or even 1 billion. Seriously.
I am not a socialist by far buy there should be a fucking LEVEL CAP in real life so that everyone has a chance at least. The level cap doesn't exist. You have some LVL 99 mages around while you are grinding for that LVL 5 sword.

It's a rigged game. It's fucked. The fact people even march for RAISE MY SLAVE WAGE is retarded. We need a total reboot of the game.
BITCOIN could have done that, but you were too busy fighting each other as usual. Fucking peasant fucks.

>>10112710
>>>10112681 (OP)
>Companies can’t afford to give their employees that


He fell for it ahahaha

>>10120156
Japan had a meteroic rise that has obviously stagnated for the past 2 decades, and it has pretty terrible working conditions and worker's rights so that hasn't been doing them favors, while Germany has more of a history of high benefits and worker control than the US even does (and are actually still succeeding unlike the sclerosis of Japan, though it is not so simply as just worker's rights since they obviously have a privileged place in the EU). They have codified laws that make the board of directors include workers representatives for large companies. Their system has generally disincentivized the kind of shareholder value system we have in America.

>>10119688
Why would I go to work if you are just going to give me a living wage?

>>10120022
>doing a job that a part time high schooler can do and expect to thrive

Burger too expensive

>>10120282
It would be terrible to incentivize people to get out and do something useful for society right?

>>10120340
You can't read. The high wages in the 50s and 60s resulted in the near-total death of industry in the US. See the rust belt. Just because it happens slowly doesn't mean its not a thing.

>>10120447

What are you rambling about?
Can you elaborate? Or stfu.

>>10112681

Well, we can't have the slaves getting rich, can we?

>>10113651
>the free market
We are so fucking far any from the free market that having robots solve all out problems is more realistic than anything close to a free market.

>>10120508
What he said is:
It would be terrible to incentivize people to get out and do something useful for society right?

not that hard to understand.

>>10120136

That's an arbitrary number. Walking adds up if done for everything, though. I lived in Japan for a little while and walking up 6 flights of stairs for everything and to work, to go eat, added up to an extra 10 hours spent walking or more per week than in the US. Just normal daily life.

Build more houses so rent is cheaper, and the save the money "wasted" on higher rents as a wage increase.

>>10120641

ok, let's build more houses.
Where do we meet and start building?

For being a biz board this place is retarded and lacks any understanding of fundamental economics

>>10120641
Land is expensive where people want to live.

>>10120022
>2400$ a month for fulltime.
>how much you have left after TAX. Let's say 2000$?
>400 dollars in tax

I pay almost that in taxes from half a month's work on slightly over minimum wage.

>>10120682
Plenty of empty squares here. Plus a lot of urban sprawl is single story housing. Convert them into two story houses and double your population.

>>10120850

Ok , you found a spot.
Let's bring bricks and shovels and start building.

Should we shitpost some more or get straight to it? Who pays for gás getting there. You don't happen to have a few bricks and cement and tiles and a roof and pipes and wires etc? I don't have any of those. Bet let's start building.

>>10113429
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>10113200
what about the millions of small and medium-sized businesses around the country that would have to pay their employees minimum wage that would all go out of business or make massive cuts to their operations (such as firing a bunch of their employees), you dumb fuck
it's no wonder that the largest companies are pulling in record profits, even when adjusted for inflation; all of their competition is getting culled via regulation like "raise the minimum wage to $20! i'm a brainless teenage girl, rupublican party policies are DYSFUNCTIONAL! i demand that you pay for my $100,000 gender studies degree! this is a violation of my human rights!!!"
you people are the fucking pawns of the corporatists, and you're so god-fucking-DAMNED stupid that you don't realize the insane amounts of damage to liberty, the economy, and the quality of almost everyone's life that you're doing when you vote for more regulation

>>10112681
Artificially raising lower wage limits with price controls fucks with the supply/demand of labor and doesn't allow wages or the economy to grow naturally. Instead it just makes running a business harder and it makes being employed harder because when being forced to pay higher wages, employers want to be sure they aren't wasting a single penny

>>10112681
It's actually a good thing because it would force companies to only keep jobs that are worth to pay that much.
Everything else should have been automated or streamlined a long time ago.
This would actually lead to a boom of innovation which will open up new forms of work and people will just shift to a new set of administrative tasks.

>>10112681
Minimum wage laws kill jobs, increase retail prices, make the workforce less competitive internationally, remove incentives for strivng for higher-skilled more in-demand jobs, etc. etc. Burger-flippers are paid low for a reason - there are a lot of people who can do it and increasingly less demand due to technological advances. The socialist idiocy that is labor price regulation hurts the very people it intends to help by increasing unemployment, stalling progress, and distorting incentives. If you fail to see something so simple you’re a brain-dead Marxist who can’t be reasoned with. One of the many reasons democracy is a horrible idea is that economically illiterate mouth breathers like you get to vote.

>>10121368
It wouldnt kill jobs that matter. It would force companies to innovate which would lower prices in the long run and create a new class of jobs which add more value to the economy than fucking burger flipping.

>>10112681
Because higher costs = higher prices. I need others to be poorer, so that I can be slightly richer.

>>10112681
You create more barriers to entry into market and create a situation where large corporations are the only ones who can afford labor.

Goodbye American dream

>>10117327
$1 a day in Ethiopia is a far more grim existence than a minimum wage life in America, poor westerners are the worst, you had literally the only important form of privilege and you absolutely fucked it lmao

>>10120850
What the fuck is that? Why are the only 90 degree angles? Why is everything a square?! That is bloody freakish. Makes me anxious.

>>10122146

>muh privilege

fucking sjws no one gives a fuck about niggers in africa

>>10121922
It's already like that in Europe. Europoors are actually okay with this because they have zero entrepreneurial spirit. They are content just wage-slaving for some jew the rest of their lives. The euro lifestyle is one of mediocrity. Euro culture is mediocre culture.

>>10121922
>Goodbye American dream
Welcome to the past.