/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>10099329
it's true, our fates are predetermined. But nobody knows what those fates are. Your brain is one small part of the universe of causal events that make you do whatever it is you do. It's not big enough to ever be able to grasp enough information to know what it is you're fated to do.

So, we're robots, but it's wrong to say "I'm fated to make it" or "I'm fated not to make it". Nobody knows. The illusion of free will is what we are required to resort to while making decisions (even if those decisions have already been made for us), because every other cognitive model just makes us shut down or act insane. Determinism is something you come to rationally, acknowledge the truth of, then file away in a mental drawer and never look at again. Dwelling on it is unhealthy.

>the universe constantly forks into alternative universes
>there is a universe for every single possible outcome since the big bang

>>10099380
I disagree. Some people instinctively know they are bound for greatness. It could very well be genuine delusion and narcissism though, but it doesn't matter. I didn't even decide to dwell on anything, my brain did, so you're half right. I had no choice, that is the point. I didn't even have the choice of having to choose.

While it may be your 'fate' to file it away, and pretend it doesn't exist, that was always meant for you, and your brain.

>>10099394
Sounds like the current state of crypto

>>10099394

>tfw I will never be able to see the doge fork universe

>>10099405
>some people think they themselves, or people that they themselves determine, are fated for greatness
>this means that fate has determined those individuals to greatness

good ole /biz/

>>10099431
I was fated to think that. So if then it happens? Check mate, my bro.

>>10099442
I think descartes covered this with "I think therefore I am"

>>10099459
Yeah, but I didn't decide what to think to begin with. But that statement is still technically true, regardless of determinism or not.

It's just that 'I' don't really decide *what* to think.

>>10099416
There is a Universe where 1 DOGE is $1000

>>10099431
He’s clearly retarded, it should be obvious just like determinism

>>10099494
Prove me wrong brainlet

>>10099467
No I guess not. I assume that everyone has the power of free thought in this way and therefore determinism.
On biz determanistic features are discussed in a psychopathic/narcassistic field as it is coupled with money.

>>10099503
remove any reference to individuals from your statements. if they are not valid then clearly youre an idiot.

>>10099519
>>10099494
Godly sirs, what advice would you give to a heavy-hearted newfag?

Fate is not real, life is a "game" and you can change the outcome every second, only the now matters. also thoughts does shape reality, so stop thinking like a faggot.

>>10099519
No, I'm saying within the context of determinism, let's say for arguments sake that its 100% proven and cannot be disputed... then 'thinking I'm meant for greatness' is arguably necessary for greatness considering "I think therefore I am", only the 'I' in this is actually not me, but my 'brain' (so me, but I didn't decide you see) shaping my actions via my thoughts and thus shaping my fate (well, not really shaping it, more letting it play out how it was always going to play out)

>>10099628
this is why no one respects modern philosophy

>>10099467
you can decide what you think fucking retard

>>10099649
You are only saying that because you can't deconstruct the simulacrum of his faux-Lacanian argument presented through hot media

>>10099626
You don't decide your thoughts
>>10099649
Well, lets hear it then, anon.
>>10099651
No you can't. Even the thought of being able to decide them you didn't decide.
Consider that some people bang their heads and wake up with completely different personalities, consider that your genetics and even the physical shape and size of your brain determines certain traits, etc. You didn't decide shit, not even your reply to me.

>>tfw free will doesn't exist
[citation needed]

>>10099626
Based on genetics and chemical composition of the brain. Coupled with bad events in life, bullying, sexual abuse, isolation, etc
Some people cannot shake off negative thoughts and attitude ever. They try to cope with therapy and the faggotry that you just said. But deep down their true put look on life shows itself again until they either end it. Or live their life miserable, prove me wrong faggot.

Example , top movie stars and or directors. Who have everything in their life and abused drugs to deal with their probs when they were younger. 10 ...20 years later they anhero and are on the news. Do you really....think a 50 year old man who has made it in life decides to do heroin again for the lols, or to catch a buzz? No, it is because of what I stated earlier . ... they have negative outlook and self image that is engrained for life. Gg

>>10099682
I'm a brainlet, but I still know free will doesn't exist. Who cares how it was presented, the facts are in.
'I' didn't decide to write this post, my brain did. Maybe it was that one time I hit my head as a child that forced my brain to make a connection it had never made before which laid dormant for years until this very moment right now where it was rediscovered thus causing me to type this post in reply back to you. I never even had the choice to choose. I can't stop typing, It's not me typing right now... I can't st----- Schizophrenia.

>>10099651
>He thinks he can decide what your brain makes you think

>>10099692
rather than use philosophical models as pidgeonholes to win internet arguments, you should use philosophical models to find out truths about the world around you. until philosophy goes back to this model it will continue being a joke. you can prove literally anything by "if a then b"ing, it doesnt make you right it just makes you a faggot

>>10099780
I don't care about winning internet arguments, my friend. I care about truth of the universe n' shit. I am just interested because this interests me. It sounds like you care... but don't worry, anon, it isn't all your fault... your brain decided for you, and you didn't decide to make it think X or Y, it was many things that converged to one to make you think that specific thing.

I'm not a philosopher, I'm not writing a fucking paper here, am I?

You guys are virgin inferior basedboys, you can shape your life however you want when you are done pumping estrogen in your body

You control everything because You are more than the conscious mind you are talking about.

>>10099412
>tfw our current universe is a shitty fork of a legitimate universe where things don't suck all the time
>big bang was the pump before the devs exit scammed, now we're just suffering the slow excruciating bleedout to 0 (heat death)

We don’t have free will but we are able to consciously alter outcomes. A belief in a sort of mindless determinism is basically the same as believing in god in my book.

>>10099925
I agree. It's extremely nuanced, but for discussion sake its easier to imagine it as absolute. I do personally think that there is at least something we can do, but maybe that's just because I don't want to admit I have no choice in anything.

>>10099873
>tfw the universe you speak of is simply the one where this man is not ousted from power

>>10099329
I really dont think it's a problem. I at least feel like I am choosing all this. That's all I can really ask for right?

>>10099394
>hasn't realized this is the only real possible outcome which is why it's happening

>>10099329
In some sense you are right; we are in a perfect, mathematical universe. Every cause and effect can be found. However, your thread does not hit the nail on the coffin. It seems like you are missing a big step in your understanding of time, making you to into a crazy, unneeded loop.

The present is an effect of the past, which is the cause. The future we cannot comprehend; it is but consciousness in a stream of present moments. Thus, we only understand the present in hindsight, making it the past.

To sum it up: We live in the future, perceiving it as the present, acting on the past. You can shape your future by changing your past through actions in the present.

>>10100886
I'm sub 120 IQ, my man. I lost you at present. Please spare a thought for those of us not blessed with mathematical minds. I can't into mathematics and couldn't even as a child... which sucks considering crypto is just that.

>>10100886
Also, Marcus Aurelius on an hero. If you doubt, or have lost, control of your life, consider making it at least the one achievement of your life to completely exit when you choose.

Every single day you have a choice; death means reaching ultimate consciousness, but is that really what you want? Dumb down, enjoy life and play the game. We are all here for a reason, wonder why?

>>10099329
I tried to teach my wife this and she just doesn't give any fucks. Do you think she's simple minded? Or are people who stay blissfully unaware of the truth of our reality actually the intelligent ones because they are generally happier for it?

>When atheists who have never cracked opened a physics textbook tell me reality is deterministic

>>10101096

>>10100940
Yesterday is what makes today. We speculate that there is a tomorrow, but we only understand what the "tomorrow" is when the day is over and it becomes "yesterday". Every moment is a building block for the future path, every time you lay today's brick, you change to the path, giving more options for where to place tomorrow's brick. Since we do not know where the road will end, we can only look backwards on the road already built to figure out where to place today's brick.

>>10101115

>YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENTS
>presents no arguments

It's not my job to debunk your non-claims

>>10101122
You can shape the road ahead (future) through changing the path's direction (past) by laying further bricks now (present).

>>10101023
I could never understand suicide because I've never felt suicidal in my life. I mean, I've 'thought' about it, but don't understand how people go through with it. I've been low as possible, but I still find beauty in the tragedy, just looking out of the window and breathing fresh air is enough to put things in to perspective for me.. the beauty of it all.
>>10101081
It requires a lot of mental work to be self aware and conscious in thought of what you are doing, etc. Its much easier to just 'go with the flow'.
>>10101096
I'm not atheist. I believe in a god as in a higher power, creator, etc, just not a Christian one or any other religion. One that hasn't been revealed to us yet.

>>10101122
Oh right yeah, I get that... but still, the very action of 'laying bricks' is out of our control. We may think that it is us deciding to 'not be lazy', etc, but it isn't, is it? It's our genetics, how our brain is shaped, the experiences we've experienced, other randomness and how its perceived by our brain, and so on.

What is the difference between a lazy person and a hard worker say? It cannot be that they are just 'lazy', they are lazy/or X because their brain is a certain way. So when someone hits snooze on their alarm clock, they were *always* going to hit snooze. Nothing could have changed that for them, because if we could zoom to the most minute level, we would see their brain 'fire' in such a way so as to make them respond however they did. It was already there, they never made a choice or had a chose to choose.

You can say, "Yes, but you're typing this to me now", etc, but again, I never had a choice. I am a slave to my brain, the physical shape, experience, and everything else mentioned, and this then converges into my actions and how I behave. So 'fate' really is a thing, but just lets ignore applying it universe wide and only apply it on a personal level, then 'personal fate' is in my opinion an accurate description.

>>10101534
choice* to choose

>>10099329
Free will does exist you underage b&

>>10101096
>God knows everything including what you will do at all times
>reality is not deterministic
Choose one and only one.

Watch this video then learn. Faggots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g

>>10099380
fpbp, and /thread

Check my fate bro

>>10102276
You're fate is peasant like my bro

>>10102507
your*

>>10099329
its weird because my fate is to stop you from becoming rich by becoming rich myself, strange

>>10102522
you already failed then

>>10101122
Life is literally a blockchain

>>10102549
its fate dummy, gotta just wait lol

>>10102591
My fate is to be great, I can feel it

gtfo my board /lit/ fags reeeeee

>>10099329
OP is right but not for the reasons they state.

Free will is an illusion because you're a slave to physics essentially. Everything you do and will do can be traced back to the origin of the universe and can be traced forward to it's end. Therefore since the universe is finite (and it very well is) the events that cause you to exist and make a choice are finite. Even when you do seemingly exercise "free will" you're still only excerising it with in the limited scope of events that can exist as determined by the laws of physics at the time. Emotion is nothing more than a reaction to external stimuli and emotion governs choice in all things. Even when making entirely rational desicions, it still governed that emotional choice to be rational.

There is no god, or soul, or afterlife. You're merely the result of an algorithm that evolved out of a utilitarian need to monitor other algorithms and their physical components for survival. In essence all human consciousness is really just an elaborate event log that can execute mitigation and repair procedures. That's all you are. Free will doesnt exist for something that's limited in it's scope to choose how it will act.

>>10099329
IOTA transactions are free

>>10099459

>"I think therefore I am"
>"I think therefore I"
>"I think therefore"
>"I think"
>"I"

implying you exist

>>10102507
Fuck youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

>>10102679
>There is no god, or soul, or afterlife
[citation needed]

>>10102679
>everything has a beginning and end, therefore we cannot consciously effect the predetermined outcome
Holy fuck what am I reading? Kek how does Sam Harris' postmodernist cum taste? Either this place is getting dumber or I've outgrown it.
Predeterminists, if I concede that my own actions are entirely predetermined by a force greater than my own level of awareness, am I completely absolved from any and all future decisions I make? e.g. murder, assault, theft, etc?

>>10099697
This has happened, is happening and will happen. It is also not happening right now.

>>10103742
You're retarded. Not even that guy, but whether you're absolved or not doesn't matter, you'll still be punished for said crimes.

Whether you are to blame is a different matter.

>>10102692
So are Ark's, that's the beauty of DPoS. Now stop shitting up the thread with that 3 big turd log tangle.

>>10102679
>There is no god, or soul, or afterlife
how the fuck am I able to have an experience of the present moment then ? My awareness/consciousness must be hardcoded into the universe itself for me to experience shit. I might as well be a biorobot reacting to external stimuli I get from my senses with no consciousness at all. But I can observe my thoughts and experience the world around me at the present moment.

I have the exact same thoughts. If I ask you to say either red or blue and you decide to say red. Could you really decide? All happenings in the universe could therefore be already determined since the beginning. The whole universe's life would be a big movie which was already recorded and gets played now.

OMG THE REVELATION.

Just kidding, I don't wanna be the faggot telling you these ideas have been around forever... but they have. Hey, better late than never. Hardly changes anything, but it should at least turn us into more understanding, forgiving and peaceful people. If everyone understood that we're more spectators than agents, the world would be a better, nicer, less judgemental place.

>2018
>brainlets still believe in fatalism

the absolute state of biz

>>10104809
There's no room for free will in the real world, only the illusion of it. But that shouldn't change your personality or outlook on life negatively.

>>10104816
I suppose you read the daily horoscope too?

>>10101534
Yes, we are all reacting to each other. The problem is that you cut a line between yourself and your environment. We are all one and since we cannot do but react to stimuli, you realise that the birth of the universe (big bang/god/whatever) contains every information in the closed system and that we merely still react to it. Reaction is natures logic, bound by physics, understood in math.

To get back to the point, there is no YOU. YOU are a fungus, mainly ruled by bacteria in your body. You interact with other fungi/bacteria-driven zombies. Your "predetermined" choices are predetermined because something else exists and that you react to it. You are streaming reality in present moments in your conciousness. Does that make reality a movie or an interactive game? Great question

>>10104790
Yeah it's fate
>>10104802
>Just kidding, I don't wanna be the faggot telling you these ideas have been around forever... but they have.
No shit Sherlock

>>10104904
Thanks I just took the romanticism pill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZmmIetI5o

I have a free will.

>>10099697
>unironically believes in the magical neither random nor deterministic """free will"""

>>10099329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnxkfLe4G74

>>10099329
>Tell Girlfriend my destiny is already determined I just have to wait for it.
>She says "Anon lots of sons of rich men like you have waited their entire life for the world to fall into their laps, you have to start working on your own success."

What did see mean by this? Should I show her your post?

>>10105186
Show her the door, son.

>>10099329
I believe if you want something bad enough you will get it. Often when you no longer want it

>there are people ITT who believe free will and determinism aren't compatible
Holy shit read a book you pseudointellectual.

>>10105211
>you can have free will if everything is already decided
Lmao the state of this fucking idiot

If everything is predetermined then our financial system is one of the cruelest out there. Basically certain people are destined to never make it. I personally am worried this might be the case for me, as I had several fucking opportunities to buy BTC and ETH for dirt cheap and never did. Maybe there's some alternate universe out there where I'm rich.

>>10099329

/biz/ is business & finance, nobody cares about your pleb material determinism theories. Saged.

>>10105555
>48 unique ips
Clearly they do faggot

>>10105351
Who says everything is not decided by free will? Conscious about it or not. Realise that we know close to nothing about life, yourself included.

>>10105186
You don't get it. It means you can actually decide now to sit on the couch all day or to bust your ass off. But the decision you take may be only the result of chemical reactions in your brain based on your genetics and sum of all experiences. Therefore one could argue that your ability to actually decide for something is only an illusion. Your body is somehow the slave to your brain.

>>10105598
I didn't say that either if you bothered to read any post in the thread but your own
Fuck off

Why are you so angry, >>10105645 ? Portfolio down 90% from winter? Is life frustrating?

>>10105658
>Naughty words means anger
Stop being so sensitive faggot, this is the internet retard

>>10105662
Is being nice to other people really that difficult? In any event, you are certainly ensuring miserable surroundings, is that reflected in your life? Seek a psychologist, it could change your life for the greater.

>>10105683
>One post is enough to judge someone in their entirety
You're not as nice as you think, are you?

It's just language

>>10105662
Or, let me save you some money: You use offensive words in frustration to distance yourself from others. I completely understand that it is not easy being frustrated, but think about the impact it has on yourself and your life.

>>10105711
Again, see>>10105706
Stick to the armchair psychology and shhhush

>>10099329
>not beign in control of your thoughts

Jesus what a faggot

>>10105711
Also, it's hardly offensive. It's just language. You're just a sensitive little flower, aren't you? Lol
>>10105722
You didn't even decide to type that

>>10105706
I have read all of your posts. And I spend my time writing this because I want to help improve your life.

>>10105728
Language is everything. I really do not care about your offensive words or demeaning tone, understand that I am trying to help you out of love. :-)

>>10105728
What a pathetic way of seeing the world. It is said that man is both the sculptor and the sculpture. You are living a sub human life

>>10105729
>11 posts is enough to diagnose someone
Lmao
>>10105743
Help yourself and stop projecting
>"Language is everything"
So then, why don't you see the inherent beauty in me telling you to fuck off?
Fuck is a beautiful word, and so is off.

>>10099329
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, then are dreamt of in your philosophy

>>10105750
It's not pathetic at all. I can name tens of the greatest men who ever lived that believed in fate.
You're living in denial.
You don't sculpt anything, do you?

>>10099329

I already knew that Sherlock. But we still feel like we made our own choice even if it was predetermined every time we replay it.

>>10105757
>Not Byron

>>10105752
Yes, have a nice life. :-)

>>10105873
You too guy

>>10099394
this. op is noob tier

>>10099329
I don't give a shit, I'm gonna make my way through it

>>10105915
the post you're replying to is joe rogan tier you moronic dunce lmao

>>10105929
>brainlet determinist still unironically attempting to change other's minds
This is gold

>>10106158
>implying you cant have your mind changed despite the above
the state of your iq

dance puppets dance
to the rhythm of fate

>>10106158
pseud detected

>>10106168
>implying you cant have your mind changed
>mind changed
>changed
CHANGED
H
A
N
G
E
D

randomness doesnt mean free will
the dice doesnt decide what way it rolls

>>10105929
Determinism is for loser to cope with their failure. Thats why its so popular in this website. "i couldnt do anything about it so i dont have to feel bad about". Grow some balls and take control of your life. I used to believe in fate and i was a lazy piece of shit, every since i understood that i had to make it happen instead of waiting like an idiot my life got a lot better. Stop falling for the deterministic jew

>>10099329
Poop

>>10105211
>unironically believes in magic

I knew biz was full of brainlets but god damn. "Herpaderp read a book" "pseudo intelectuals" yet I bet you never read a book on physics or mathematics in your entire life.

>>10106220
Projection
I am probably more successful than you will ever be

>>10106254
>Implying believing in a god is believing in 'magic'

You can believe in a creator without being a Christian, Muslim, Jew, or any other popular religion, you know this? Do you know something we all don't or something? I'm confused

>>10106254
And i bet that you dont understand that the whole world of physics are based on hyphotesis and models that are validated until proven wrong. Humans are too dumb to understand the complexity of the universe, and will probably never truly understand it

>>10106278
>>10106295
>magic IS real!!
>physicists got it all wrong I know better

Lmao this shit is priceless.

>>10100222
fucking checkered

>>10099329
karma is real, but fate is not

>>10099861

/thread

>>10107136
Wow nice argument! Genius!

>>10106720
Post a single (1) physicist who has proof of no god or higher power.
Also
>appeal to authority