/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>52522054
>Monero is great but it's not hard money or an investment, it's just cash and I think it works well in that regard since it's fungible.

lol maxipads are getting desperate now. Holding Monero = investing in Big Cocaine, comfiest hold.


>On the other hand, bitcoin is a store of value as it is the first thing we consider as digital scarcity. To date there is no scarcer thing than bitcoin. At the end of the day bitcoin is a revolutionary tool we have to fight the FED.

Nigga, what good is a "store of value" that exposes holders to fungibility attacks and coin seizure?

>>50485620

Yeah, taint is totally dependent on jurisdiction, what is deemed dirty in the US might not be in Russia, China, etc. But that also limits you to trading within only that jurisdiction, OFAC has already started blacklisting foreign exchanges that fuck with dirty coins.

>US sanctions Garantex for laundering over $100M

The Garantex sanctions mark the third against a virtual currency exchange in the past year, following Suex in September and Chatex in November. The release stated that all three exchanges operated out of the Federation Tower in Moscow.

https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/news/252515668/US-sanctions-Garantex-for-laundering-over-100M

>>50330952

Bitcoin is non-fungible, meaning swapping INTO Bitcoin always carries with it the risk of having tainted coins dumped on you. No thanks.

>>50078009
Yes, btc is useless.

>>49944325

yawn

>>49921523
>If every bitcoin gets blacklisted, no bitcoin will be blacklisted

Blacklisted coins get seized, "cleaned" and reintroduced into circulation so there will never be a preponderance of taint.

For example:

>$113 Million in Dirty Crypto Cleaned by Frankfurt Prosecutors
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-22/-113-million-in-dirty-crypto-cleaned-by-frankfurt-prosecutors

>>49642716
>Bitcoin is fungible

lol nobody believes your maximyths anymore

>>49478672
>Please sir, where do I buy clean vs dirty bitcoins, do they have different colors on the exchange

Step 1: unknowingly do business with an entity listed on the OFAC blacklist
Step 2: send to any compliant exchange
Step 3: be amazed by what happens next

Shit fundamentals, it's vulnerable to governmental surveillance and blacklisting and is at this point nothing more than a hype-fueled speculative bubble.

>>30394936
>I unironically want tainted bitcoins where can I get it?

Contact the people on the OFAC blacklist.

>>30356175
>Current trends indicate otherwise

Not least because the US government actively monitors the BTC blockchain for "suspicious activity" and blacklists like a boss.

>>30342317
>>Tainted BTC is a theoretical concept. ATM nobody is blocking BTC transactions based on history.

Uhhhh......

>>30307176
>Like I'm not sure why anyone would accept coins from ancient whale accounts for example.

Well, ancient BTC = verifiably untainted, so if BTC continues mooning the incentive is obvious. Otherwise, BTC is only useful for cashing out to fiat and we'll be able to do that with other chains soon enough.

>>30294180
>if your bitcoins are not tainted they are accepted and pretty much fungible. they are not fungible if they have a criminal history like cash bills painted with a patron.

Thing is, you can NEVER know 100% for certain IF or HOW MUCH your coins are tainted i.e. how many hops back are being counted and by whom, different agencies use different criteria.

And if you get it wrong and your coins are on a blacklist, they'll get seized the moment they touch a compliant exchange. Pic related.

THIS is why fungibility is so fundamental, no fungibility = perpetual threat of blacklisting = nobody willing to use it.


>with monero all bills are considered dirty. almost nobody accepts them and may be pressured out of legality completely.

You need to keep up with current events, Monero is seeing increased mainstream adoption, these happened just yesterday:

https://www.tapjets.com/article/private-jet-pay-with-monero

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cypherpunk-holdings-inc-announces-corporate-215700164.html

Also, the first working atomic swaps service was released literally today, meaning even if they ban Monero in future, buying/trading XMR will still be as easy as buying/trading BTC.

>>30142301
>XMR increasing in price/market cap would only happen if it's used as a store of value, not as a medium of exchange or money laundering.

Building reserves kinda is that.

>The question is, will criminal organisations stash their wealth in XMR long term or just launder it and then go to BTC or fiat?

Why would they even want to touch BTC when it's literally under 24/7 government surveillance and subject to blacklisting and third-party seizure?

Fiat is easy for them to cash out into because organized crime is flush with copious amounts of cash by default.

So, XMR<->cash can be accomplished without ever relying on a third party i.e. banking industry, for every gangster that needs to cash in there will be another looking to cash out, rinse and repeat.

Lack of fungibility = vulnerable to governmental blacklisting, who the fuck wants to be left holding coins that Uncle Sam can arbitrarily decide are toxic and not to be transacted with?

Monero truly is inevitable.

>>29917260
>With atomic swaps, will blacklisted BTC wallets be able to swap into XMR?

Blacklisted BTC will be the first coins in line lol. But we can at least scan for the super-toxic ones on the OFAC list before committing to the swap.

>>29896171
>Bitcoin will still be no.1 for the foreseeable future though. I don't see anything taking it's place for at least 10 years.

I'm not so sure, it is definitely a bubble (hype > fundamentals) and history shows us that every single bubble bursts eventually, at which point fundamentals determine what remains standing. Shit fundamentals = less likely to make it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#As_a_speculative_bubble

Another thing working against Bitcoin is the fact that it can't compete with Monero on privacy and that this fact is becoming more and more publicized with every passing day, which is something that will make potential future investors think twice about buying into something criminals feel isn't trustworthy. Because especially in the world of high finance, secrecy is paramount and the prospect of a competitor being able to hire some blockchain snooping company to potentially deanonymize their transactions isn't going to go down well.

One more strike is Bitcoin's vulnerability to governmental blacklisting. The fact that the government is able to declare "suspicious" addresses and coins toxic and off-limits and effect their seizure by forcing to exchanges comply will not sit well with ANYBODY who becomes aware of this vulnerability, for obvious reasons.

Investors NEED to know their money is safe from prying eyes and potential seizure and with Bitcoin they'll never quite have this certainty, at least not to the degree Monero provides.

So, it wouldn't be so unexpected if Bitcoin ends up going the way of MySpace.

>>29779334
>monero fags say bitcoin is fully traceable and it's basically an open book lacking any privacy.

All true, Uncle Sam has been blacklisting Bitcoin and other cryptos since 2018. This is possible because transparent blockchain = shit privacy & fungibility.

>>29767806

Also worth mentioning is that governmental surveillance and blacklisting are ramping up. If Uncle Sam decides you've been up to no good they can and will blacklist all your known crypto addresses, and if those cryptos happen to be traceable your funds will become toxic waste that nobody else will want to touch.

A coin that is this vulnerable to governmental surveillance and blacklisting is living on borrowed time, once the normies realize their precious BTC could theoretically be seized tomorrow for "suspicious activity" the whole thing will start to collapse, a greater-than-zero chance is too much when you have a viable and battle-tested alternative that doesn't require you develop a special set of mixing skills.

>>29687456
>I hate that people can see your transactions and balance and its why monero is the future but in reality 1bitcoin=1bitcoin. I would take any "tainted" btc for t he same price

Transacting with sanctioned (blacklisted) crypto addresses is just asking to get fucked with by Uncle Sam.

If you believe otherwise I suggest you head over to the US Treasury website and read all about it.

>>29610412
>I love monero but everyone should hold 50% of their stack in BTC

I would if I didn't think it could crash and burn at any moment.

>>29556123
>Add to that network effects, storing wlth in a high marketcap asset is more reliable and thus trusted.

How can something so vulnerable to governmental blacklisting be considered trustworthy? With Bitcoin you can never be 100% certain you won't have some kind of taint/fungibility issues eventually, with Monero I can sleep peacefully at night knowing the worst they can do is ban it and even then atomic swaps are only months away now.