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File: 108 KB, 427x737, fbe140bb332c501f227cfa0cb80bc32e.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
520213 No.520213 [Reply] [Original]

I was peeking at the WoW models when I realized that, literally, all of them, are made out of triangles. I haven't even spotted a single quadrilateral, not at single one, only triangles.

Is there any specific reason for this? I thought quadrilateral were master race and triangles should be avoided at all cost.

pic related, its an harpy

>> No.520217

preety simple, try to subdivide that model.
Tris and quads are both correct, but for diferent purposes

>> No.520218

> being this fucking retarded

Did you ever export anything ever into any fileformat op?
You're a fucking idiot.

>> No.520219

it deforms like hell when I subdivide it

>> No.520220

quad = 2 tris
triangles are not bad or to be avoided if you know how your geometry will flow.

>> No.520221

Not really. Care to explain? I recently started learning about this.

>> No.520222

They get baked down into triangles. If you had access to the source model, you'd see quads instead of triangles.

Technically speaking, every modern 3d model is made up of triangles. The quads are just a useful abstraction.

>> No.520223

yup, tris are bad for subdividing, deformations etc
but in low poly modelig like your example controlling the way the tris are distributed its necessary

>> No.520224

I see, thanks for the explanation. I'm guessing the only reason to bake them down into triangles is to reduce the number or vertices right? Or is there another benefit?

>> No.520225

sometimes, but in low poly modeling sometimes you need to model in tris because a quad its not allways a flat surface

>> No.520226

Can you mix tris and quads when modeling?

>> No.520227

Yes. But you need to be mindful of the effect it will have on various properties and future alterations. Apparent smoothness and subdivisions/tessellations will be affected.

>> No.520228
File: 1.03 MB, 260x137, 1437367988510.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Look op:
Quads don't exist. The only polygons in existance are tris. Atleast in the graphics card.
Every model ever will at some point be out of tris and tris only. The "only quads" thing only exists, because tris are shit to work with from an artist standpoint.
That still means 1 quad = 2 tris.
1 polygon = x amount of tris. Doesn't matter if it's a quad, or n-gon.
Everything is tris.
Every. model. is. tris.
Thats why when you import models from a game, you get what? tris.
Because quads don't exist technically speaking.
You got it now? I wrote it down 5 times for you, I hope thats enough.

>> No.520229

Obviously OP is a newbie. You weren't born with all the knowledge in the world neither, am I right?What a bitter person you must be

>> No.520230

> I'm guessing the only reason to bake them down into triangles is to reduce the number or vertices right? Or is there another benefit?

Triangles are guaranteed to be valid. Given 3 points in space, they will be a triangle no matter what. Also, rendering pipelines have been optimized heavily for triangles for this reason. The number of (indexed) vertices in the model will be unchanged regardless of whether you represent the polygons as triangles or not.

>> No.520232
File: 94 KB, 1086x585, Untitled-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


yes you can buy you need to be careful if you subdivide the mesh
both are the same cube but the second one its triangulated

>> No.520233
File: 310 KB, 1250x1000, old wow vs new wow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]


Those are the legacy models.

The updated models are quadrangles.

>> No.520235
File: 252 KB, 1920x1040, ass.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Thats still triangles broo, I'd know I do machinima with them lol. Their shit to work with, if I knew what I was doing I'd do a complete re-topo of the original wow model.

>> No.520238
File: 2.50 MB, 1280x720, Sequence 01_1.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can still get some decent results though.

>> No.520248

jesus how retard can you be.

>> No.520275


Everything is triangles when it comes time to render.

>> No.520277
File: 60 KB, 800x1800, quad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I do.
3 point can define exactly one plane.
With 4 and more points it could be much more ambiguous if only just one piont isn't in the same plane as the others.
See pic related how can a render engine translate a quadrant if their point aren't in the same plane.

>> No.520278

It isn't and it can make pretty strange resolutions.

>> No.520280

That's a triangulated quad model
Every quad model gets triangulated eventually
In this case, probably during export for game use, which you (or whatever source you got it from) obviously ripped subsequently after the triangulation

>> No.520375

Quads make artists lives easier because they can be subdivided without disrupting edge flow. Edge flow makes rigging/animating easier because it makes things deform more evenly and predictably.

The thing is, Quads don't exist.

The software you're modelling in is showing you quads, but everything is still tris. Tris are the only thing the there is in polygon models. The software is showing you quads because that's the best thing for you to model in for the the aforementioned reason.

If you tell the software to triangulate your whole model, nothing actually changes. It just forgets where the essentially imaginary quads are a and shows you the triangles that make them.

On top of this, the original WoW models are low poly to the point that the modellers couldn't have created such detail with using tris.

There's nothing at all bad about using tris in this context.

The only reasons you should avoid tris are because if you want to subdivide your mesh later it will be a mess, and if you want to animate the model it will be more work for you cleaning up your weight painting if the edge flow is fucked.

>> No.520726

This is why this board is dead

>> No.520739

He's right tho, OP is an idiot, anyone who have spent atleast a day studying 3D would know why the model is as such
We've all been there, difference might be that we weren't this stupid when we posted on 4chan
I for one, welcome the already present hostility on /3/, the very same on literally 90% of the boards; if you can't handle it, then get out of the kitchen, it's literally that simple
This very same hostility was what forged me to be the artist I am today; and thanks to being told time and time again I was shit, it gave me drive to not be shit
Perhaps I am one of those individuals who respond to "harsh" (honestly not all that harsh even) motivation, but seriously, if you can't handle it or if you think that these type of posts are exclusive to /3/ then you must've just arrived here or came fresh from /b/

>> No.520797

>not knowing something makes you an idiot

Literal autism. Being a noob != being an idiot.
He'd only be an idiot if he learned nothing about tris and quads from reading this thread (and hopefully doing some googling).

>> No.520802

Using the term autism in this case doesn't make a single shred of sense, not even in the way 4chan uses it wrongly. Confirmed for /b/tard

Seriously? Semantics are the only thing going for your end of the argument?
He is an idiot, I don't give a shit if it's due to ignorance or incredulity, he is an idiot in /3/'s eyes because this is no different from someone making a thread when they haven't read the fucking sticky. It's clear he's not only new to 3D, but /3/ as well because he's one of the many idiots who thinks one question like this warrants a whole thread
He got like 8 answers saying the same thing and now the thread is dead aside from just us arguing about him being an idiot
Conclusion? Post in the fucking question thread instead of making another fucking thread, and save this cancerous useless threads when there is already one up

>> No.520869

Why aren't we able to model in quints yet? Is it due to the law of diminishing returns or are the jews involved?

>> No.521953

this should be higher up!

>> No.522208

I would fuck that gnome

>> No.522210

They are not 'baked' down to triangles. As people say a quad is two triangles.
One edge is made invisible so you, the human editor, have a better understanding of what you're working with since a quaded surface (surface of paired triagles) smooths and subivides better.
The computer doesn't care it just renders the triangles so it do not need any extra data about what edge is 'hidden'.

So final export formats will save your mesh without this 'isoline' display information for efficiency. So you just see the triangulated mesh upon ripping the files.
If you had access to the working file the artist responsible for the work used you would see a more conventional quaded geometry.
However, 'micro poly' meshes for games like the one in your OP picture will use a lot of odd triangles and unconventional geometry since they're so performance oriented.

>> No.522222

Everyone would fuck a gnome. They're like kids that are legal to fuck.

>> No.522228

It's not exactly like that. 3d modelling packages work with polys with more than 3 edges, but they output everything in tris to the gpu.

>> No.522243

bad get

>> No.522281

amazing get.
Gnomes get.

>> No.522294


Like you wouldn't fuck a gnome in the ass.

>> No.522301

Game engines triangulate the model by default. Modeling/Sculpting packages display quads or tris

Some engines are being able to display quads now but that just a cosmetic thing

Its nothing special or serious That's just how its been.

Marmoset Toolbag is built like a game engine but for pure rendering. It now displays quads. Last version only had Tris.

>> No.522302

I forgot to say All models are actually triangulated.

A polygon has 3 sides

A Quad is 2 polygons sharing an edge.

An Ngon is a polygon with more than 5 points and no edges connecting them.

Engines automatically triangulate Quas and Ngons because that's how it reads them.

When Doing hardsurface modeling its best to stay with Quads and occasional Ngons if the face is completely planar

>> No.522324
File: 193 KB, 1500x844, GrowHome_Launch_01_192711.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Some engines are being able to display quads.
Nope, maybe they can handle quads, but no display them, the draw type flag in both opengl and directx for passing quads is deprecated and I don't think works.

>A polygon has 3 sides.
Wrong, it has 3 or more sides/edges. A quad is still a polygon and it exists in real life geometry as well as geometry, it even exists in computer graphics.

>A Quad is 2 polygons sharing an edge.
Wrong, a quad is a polygon with 4sides/edges.

>An Ngon is a polygon with more than 5 points and no edges connecting them.
Wrong, an ngon is a term used in 3dcg mainly, which stands for a polygon with more than 4 sides, so a polygon with 5 sides, also known as a pentagon is an ngon, so is a hexagon and so on.

>Engines automatically triangulate Quas and Ngons because that's how it reads them.
Correct(although not all engines do it, most need the model triangulated, in order to read it properly).

>When Doing hardsurface modeling its best to stay with Quads and occasional Ngons if the face is completely planar
Debatable, usually whatever modelling you're doing, the best option is to stay in quads, except if its faux poly, which favors flat shaded triangles, pic related.

Please don't post false information anymore, it's confusing to the newbs.
If you're interested in understanding 3d graphics, read up on opengl, direct x, or topology.

>> No.522393

download link

>> No.522427


Wow model Viewer. Rip all the models you want out of WOW.

>> No.522463

>Post in the fucking question thread instead of making another fucking thread

Because this board is so flooded with posts thread management is important, huh?

3d is a huge topic and obivously not everyone is on the same level, let people ask away instead of being a bitter forum-dwelling faggot..

>> No.522695

Game engine love triangles over quads. What I was taught and usually do is model in quads then convert to triangles before I export to engine.

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