/3/ - 3DCG

[Anonymous No.939554]

How is gimbal lock even real? JUST LET ME TWIST TO INFINITY.
I swear the nerds who established rotation in 3D added in gimbal lock as this super nerdy thing to impress other nerds. (hurrr, look, it's just like a real life gimbal. Look, it's locking up. Dude so real!) And now we're stuck trying to code around this bullshit. It's not fucking real.

[sage No.939555]

>reset rotation to 0deg on all axis
>do the rotation again, properly this time
How hard could that be?

[Anonymous No.939557]

>>939554
It's super real and you can't get around it with a easy to understand 3D Euler angle setup.
If you align two axis whether virtual or mechanical they're ofc locked due to their configuration relative to one another and both creating the same result.
That is why we use Quaternions for rotations when doing anything complicated that involves rotations.

Quats always produce smooth shortest way rotation and don't ever run into gimbal lock.
They're very easy to work with so you might as well just learn how to use them and don't worry about the big brain 4D math that happens underneath the hood.

>swear the nerds who established rotation in 3D added in gimbal lock as this super nerdy thing to impress other nerds.

Why in the fuck are you exploring a nerdy topic like 3D graphics if you feel that way about nerds?
If you have an IQ 1 point this side of being mongoloid you'd know that's not how this works.
Nerds impress other nerds by solving complicated problems, not by causing them.

[Anonymous No.939562]

>>939557
>Why in the fuck are you exploring a nerdy topic like 3D graphics if you feel that way about nerds?
Because there are nerds, and then there are neeeeeeerds. And when you know nerds, you know how retarded they can be about certain thigns.

>Nerds impress other nerds by solving complicated problems, not by causing them.
Utterly and entirely incorrect. If that were the case, then nerds would actually have good communication skills, because they would desire to be understood. But rather, they assume that other people should know what they know, and fail to explain. Or, they over-explain. Just look at the format of your post. For some retarded nerd reason, you thought it was a good idea to press the enter key after every sentence. Why did you do that? What problem was it solving?

[Anonymous No.939565]

>>939562
I format my text so it enhances the readability for my desktop brethren, I don't have room in my heart for phoneposters.

[Anonymous No.939587]

>>939562
Not that anon, but for me, I usually just start another paragraph when the general idea of that string of thought runs its course. You know, like an actual paragraph.
That, and I'll do it compulsively after shit gets too bunched up in the response/text box to break things up a bit. Especially since I know zoomers, and for some reason most other anons faced with anything more than a single sentence or two instantly turn off their brain.

Also, gimbal lock is just a quirk of how rotations work in Euler. It's not something programmed in. Obviously animators would rather not deal with it than flex their muscles to newbies because they (like any other animator worth their salt) can get around it.
I largely just ignore it to be honest. It's not something I run up against very often, and in the case that I would, I'm already using quaternions. I can't make heads or tails of the graphs and what the fuck the 4th value is supposed to do, so again, I just ignore it and things work out just fine. Most of the time.

[Anonymous No.939602]

>he can't slerp between quaternions
lmao

[Anonymous No.939608]

>>939587
>what the fuck the 4th value is supposed to do
The fourth value represents a rotation around the axis specified by the other 3 values.

[Anonymous No.939616]

>>939557
>Quats always produce smooth shortest way rotation and don't ever run into gimbal lock.
You dont expose Quaternions to the user in the UI, toolbag. They dont make sense to manipulate by themselves. Look at any version of maya in the past 20+ years

[Anonymous No.939620]

Imagine being too stupid to understand Quats. lmfao

[Anonymous No.939621]

>>939620
Quaternions are not for the end user to manipulate. You dont have your graph editor show Quaternions, toolbag. KYS

[Anonymous No.939622]

>>939554
Be a big boy and use quaternions

[Anonymous No.939629]

>>939616
You can work with quaternions in maya anon. They've been part of 3D for as long as 3D been a part of anything. If you travel back in time to Alias PowerAnimator I'm sure "maya" had quats even back then.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/maya/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2020/ENU/Maya-Animation/files/GUID-CBD30A0A-1166-4076-A564-1ADC946A15F3-htm.html

[Anonymous No.939630]

>>939621
Looks like you're missing quaternion in your toolbag anon. Here, this will help you get you started in understanding how to read your quaternions <3

https://eater.net/quaternions

[Anonymous No.939672]

>>939608
Ahhh, I got ya.
What this anon posted ( >>939630 ) kinda helped me understand it a bit better. I don't know if it really helps my curve manipulation much, but I'll practice with it a bit more.
Thanks anons.

[Anonymous No.940083]

Quaternions, quaternions, quaternions! Is that all you fucks can say?!

I have quaternions on! Blender defaults to quaternion! And yet! When I use Inverse kinetics to rotate a bone along its Y axis more than 180 degrees, it still does a flippity-do, getting all twisted for a sec, before flipping back to normal.

[Anonymous No.940102]

>>939554
the hardest part to understand about gimbal lock is that it only matters if you are tracing out paths through rotation space. it's not a problem if you are just interested in a single pose.

[Anonymous No.940103]

>>940083
It's hard to know what you're talking about without knowing what you're attempting to achieve but if you're doing complex constrained rotations where your joint needs to twist over 180 degrees between keyframes you have to pay attention to the rotation order and/or isolate the joint so your unlimited rotation is all it does.

Like if you're making 'Propellerman the Spinblade' and he has a pair of arms that ends in fanblades that spin at some high RPM; You have the one joint that orients them fanblade to face the desired direction and an auxiliary joint that is parented to that joint which provide an endless rotation around a single axis inside local space of the parent.

I'd recommend you sit down and read thru the documentation of how these things actually work and you'll spare yourself a lot of headache
compared to just jumping in and expect everything to behave just the way you think it does.
Once you have some background knowldge in how movement in 3D actually is achived and you start understanding transform spaces and thinking in terms of the local forward/up vectors
a lot of things about solvers/constraints and what order you need to build things or what axii to constraint to will be demystified.
It's not like you need an engineer level understanding of the 4x4matrix and 3D space either, just knowing the flavor of what's going on with your tools in a lot of question marks.

Understand that once you start pushing into rigging and you're leaving pure art and entering an area where art and engineering start to intersect in a big way.
To perform here you'll have to educate yourself a bit so you can swim in these waters because depending on what you're making it can get rather deep fast.

Armed with a bit of knowledge most things are not very hard, but without that knowledge it'll be almost impossible to figure out.

[Anonymous No.940130]

>>939621
>Quaternions are not for the end user to manipulate
sounds like you need to get better end-users

[Anonymous No.940137]

>>940130
Do you see quaternions in the defaults of ANY commercial DCC, yes or no?

[Anonymous No.940138]

>>940137
i'm just teasing, pal. lighten up.

[Anonymous No.940174]

quaternion rotation is literally axis-angle rotation dressed up in fancy math.
the quaternion rotation formula when expanded is identical to the rodriguez rotation formula (a basis free vector formula)

[Anonymous No.940178]

>>940103
>I'd recommend you sit down and read thru the documentation of how these things actually work and you'll spare yourself a lot of headache
This sounds like the most tedious thing imaginable. But I'm starting to believe there really is no other way to make sense of this. Do you have any recommended reading?