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896808 No.896808 [Reply] [Original]

What are the main benefits to rigging and animating in Maya over Blender?

I keep hearing about how good Maya's animation toolset is, and how shit Blender's NLA editor is. Can someone further elaborate on this stuff? What makes rigging and animating in Maya better than Blender and other 3D software?

>> No.896810

>>896808
Maya API is extremely well documented and allows you to create new nodes with ease that you can use under a suitable BSD license. Unfortunately since its not source you have to be creative when you debug.

To do the same with Blender you have to fork blender and modify the source code as well as making it so you can only use the GPL license since you modified the source to create new nodes. For most this is a non-starter. However, since you're working with source you have the full array of debugging tools.

>> No.896813

>>896810
to clarify, when you rig, you will want to create new nodes and new behaviors. TD & CFX go hand in hand.

>> No.896814

>>896808
The bottom line:
rigging in blender is retarded, rigging in Maya is comfy
animators are scared of change, even when all they fucking do basically boils down to setting keyframes.

the hurdle is two-fold:
on one hand you have the most technical discipline who isn't afraid to tinker, but will still chose the path of least resistance (==Maya)
on the other, you have the least technical discipline who has an irrational phobia of change, and fears losing their edge if they suddenly lost all the fancy scripts and tools (==animBot) and/or had to drop all the animation tricks and workarounds they learned over the years

and the two are necessarily interwoven and indissoluble, which makes it 100x as difficult to initiate the change. Nevermind the licensing or the API, that comes later. The first problem is getting people to switch. And myself, I see no reason to.

>> No.896961

>>896814
You forget to mention another important aspect - efficiency through performance.
Maya's animation performance is easily 5-10x that of Blender.
In Blender a rig might run barely with 25 fps, in Maya the same rig runs 60+ with SubD enabled and maybe even with an additional cached layer of cloth sim on top of it.
That performance alone is a killer feature or rather the lack of it in Blender kills it as an animation tool.

>> No.896962

>>896961
but anon, that doesn't even make sense since
1) if you cloth sim, you also have to do a muscle sim underneath
2) if you're doing a muscle sim you have to animate the bone geometry
3) the order is bone animation (easy, lightweight, doesn't show up in final render) -> muscle sim -> cloth sim (marvelous)

>> No.896977

>>896962
>1) if you cloth sim, you also have to do a muscle sim underneath

????

>> No.896981

>>896962
Are you retarded?

>> No.896992

Blender is the best! Forget about the rest!

>> No.896995

>>896977
>>896981
dont respond to the ziva shill

>>896961
even if blender reached maya-levels of performance or surpassed it, people still wouldn't budge.
blender would need a literally revolutionary gimmick or something that makes it worth to force people to switch over.

>> No.897066

>>896977
The long and the short of it is that if youre in production you're going to have a cfx department who build and simulate muscles which then have multiple layers of simulation on top, usually hair and cloth. Guys, im not making this up nor am i shilling any particular solver ive just been around production cg for long enough to have to inform to you guys that there is a world beyond the old maya skincluster and weight painting. We use muscle solvers to get muscle sliding and fat jiggle that isnt possible with traditional skincluster and then you feed that into the hair and cloth simulations. You animate and key a lightweight proxy rig.

>> No.897080

>>896962
>>897066
>this fucking muscle sim retard again
No one is going to buy your product other than lazefags who can't bother making their own medical productions. Give up.

>> No.897112

>>897080
why are you calling me names when my knowledge of rigging in the industry is an order of magnitude above yours? What is your problem, man?

Your position is that you are running a rig "with SubD enabled and maybe even with an additional cached layer of cloth sim on top of it." while I'm telling you that in present day when you're doing characters that's not how it works for humans or animals as it doesn't look realistic enough. You have to simulate the muscles over a bone-only (and i mean "only" bone) rig using a muscle solver. There are a variety of different solvers that can do this, commercial, in house, maya, houdini, blender, you name it.

>> No.897115

>>897080
I told you not to respond, nigger, what the fuck is wrong with you

>> No.897117

>>897115
go back to your containment board (/b/).

Racism is not allowed here.

>> No.897180

Are there any genuinely good reasons to animate for games in Maya over Blender? Or is it mainly just movies?

Keep in mind a lot of the non-linear animation stuff is handled in a game engine, not the 3D software.

>> No.897182

>>897180
>Are there any genuinely good reasons to animate for games in Maya over Blender? Or is it mainly just movies?

the graph editor is terrible in blender and thats one of your main tools whilst animating

>> No.897184

>>897182
What's so terrible about it? Explain.

>> No.897250

>>897184
Still waiting...

>> No.897287

Which has the better animation workflow, Blender or Unreal Engine?

>> No.897297

>>897184
>>897250
More control, more tools. MUCH better performance.
The only thing that maya doesn't have without animbot is paste flipped keyframes.
P.S.: the NLA editor is garbage

>> No.897298

>>897297
>More control, more tools
Examples?
Blender allows me to control curves as well as I could possibly imagine; free handles alone allow you to create any kind of interpolation. How does Maya's curve editor allow more control?
And tools like what? I know Blender's NLA editor is behind the times (although it can be greatly improved with addons), but non-linear animation is not particularly relevant for videogames; game engines have their own way of handling that.

>> No.897301

>>897298
will you just fuck off already

>> No.897303

>>897298
>Examples?
I made it up.
Maya is inferior to Blender.
Don't try to google it, your software is the best.

>> No.897304

>>897301
Idiot.
>>897303
In other words, you're too stupid to explain yourself.

I was simply asking questions. It's not my problem you couldn't answer them in a non-superficial way.

>> No.897306

>>897304
fuck off kid

>> No.897307

>>897306
I already know you're a moron, you don't need to dig yourself deeper.

>> No.897308

>>897304
In other words you're a retard who needs to be spoonfed. Kys.

>> No.897309

>>897308
No, I was simply asking valid questions. It's not my problem you're too big of an idiot to have a discussion :)

>> No.897311

>>897309
you have no reading comprehension but ill spell it out for you - the experience is far worse in every way. If you dont trust me, download the free trial for ADSK and then fuck off back to learning

>> No.897312

>>897311
>you have no reading comprehension
No, idiot, you're the one who can't answer simple questions, and get buttangry when people correctly label you an idiot.
>the experience is far worse in every way
Except you're too stupid to explain how.

>> No.897313

>>897312
fuck off, child!

>> No.897314

>>897313
No, I'm more than happy to keep correctly labeling you an idiot.

>> No.897315

>>897314
see >>897308

>> No.897316

>>897315
Nah, you're just a moron. Simple as that.

>> No.897328

The reason nobody will make you a list, blendlet, is because whenever you do that blendlets will just say all those things don't matter or aren't needed when the blendlet has never even used those things. Wasted effort if even 10x rig performance and node based rigging apparently don't matter to you fucking idiots.

Keep practicing your animation, eventually you'll need to use Maya for work and you're gonna wanna kill yourself cringing thinking about all this shit you posted

>> No.897330

>>897298
You have to use it in a serious capacity to see the difference. There are workarounds in Blender, but they are a nonissue in Maya and it helps you release your work faster.

>> No.897336

>>897330
Give me just one example.

>> No.897337

>>897328
No, that's just you using strawman like the idiot you are.
I've only ever asked questions, and you've exposed yourself as a complete moron with no clue what you're talking about on this subject. You clearly have no experience with Maya or Blender.

>> No.897350

>>897336
>>897337
NTA, but you're a retard.
You btfo'd yourself here: >>897298
>I know Blender's NLA editor is behind the times
>aka "it's hot garbage but we don't want to hurt THE BLENDER COMMUNITY'S feefees"
>but non-linear animation is not particularly relevant for videogames
false and irrelevant and dishonest.
false because any animator worth their salt will make use of animation clips and animation layers, even when crafting videogame animations.
irrelevant because that is the one example you asked for.
dishonest because:
>give me just ONE example
>N-NO, NOT THAT! THAT IS N-NOT PARTICULARLY RELEVANT F-FOR ME!!!
exactly as expected from a fucking blendlet, as >>897328 predicted

back to watching andrew price, fuckface.

>> No.897351

>>897350
>NTA
Yes you are, embarrassing idiot. You have the exact same posting style, and you're now desperately trying to reclaim your lost pride.

All I did was ask some simple questions and you were too stupid to answer them. Again, it's not my problem you're an idiot who doesn't understand Maya or Blender, but pretends to anyway.

>> No.897353

>>897351
what an embarassing post

>> No.897370

>>897351
No, he is not me.
You're a dipshit. I am not looking for a discussion with a beginner. There is nothing to discuss.
You're coming to us, asking and whining. >>897350 is right. You don't know the first thing when it comes to animation and are a prick. Going to gatekeep the shit out of you fag.

>> No.897464

>>897370
No, you were simply too stupid to answer a very simple set of questions.
You clearly have no experience with Maya or Blender, and it clearly bothers you, idiot.
>You're coming to us, whining
Us? You're trying to speak for /3/ as a whole now? You're so desperate and stupid it's funny.
All I did was ask some questions, which you didn't possess the knowledge to answer, and started to get cranky once that became clear.

You're a worthless idiot and obviously a beginner in 3D.

>> No.897477

>>896808
I can simply click on the controls of any object and start animating on Maya with no issues
I have to click on the rig of one object in Blender, change it to pose mode, animate it, and then change back to object mode, click another object, change to pose mode, and then I can start animating on the other one
In summary, blender wastes more of my time to do the same work. Therefore I do not like to use it, and am only using it because my current employer is a cheapskate. The end.

>> No.897478

>>897476
>You're only here to shit up the board.
No, I entered this thread to ask questions. It's not my fault you're too stupid to answer them.
It's also not my fault you're stupid enough to pretend you know what you're talking about, then get aggro after being exposed as a beginner and a fraud.

>> No.897479

>>897477
Can't this be mitigated by selecting the other control rig in the world outliner?

>> No.897482

>>897479
Yeah and that still wastes more of my time and I still have to go into pose mode. No thanks, I'm working with blender, and I hate every miserable second of it.

>> No.897484

>>897482
don't waste ur time explaining, again it doesn't matter what you say they'll just say it's not needed, you could show them every feature in animbot and they'll just say they're all "not needed" so therefore blender is the best.

They are working backwards from the assumption that blender is the best and anything that blender doesn't do is therefore not required rather than looking at the tools and choosing whichever one has the best features, workflow and performance.

>> No.897488

>>897484
You already exposed yourself as a complete idiot with no clue what you're talking about, no need to dig yourself deeper and piggy back on others.

All I ever did was ask a few questions and you were too stupid to answer. No need to try and recruit others to back your tiny brain up. Just swallow your pride and accept you're a beginner.

>> No.897499

>>897488
i think you are too good for this place. You are clearly better than everyone else here, even those that are seniors in the industry with decades of experience and multiple award winning shipped products. You have gotten the better of us and exposed us, thats for damn sure.

/thread

>> No.897509

>>897499
Honestly, your levels of insecurity are so funny and embarrassing. All I ever did was ask a few questions and it's ultimately lead to you making a complete idiot out of yourself.
I don't claim to be an expert in Maya or Blender, but I can very easily see you're a beginner with no experience in either software, or 3D in general.

>> No.897516

>>897509
everything you say is true, except that you putting yourself down. You are an expert. Despite me working for 10 years in both maya and blender I know nothing compared to you and have wasted my time and my sadly, my life. Same for the rest of the anons itt. We all collectively kneel to you, good sir.

>> No.897518

>>897516
>Despite me working for 10 years in both maya and blender
Nah, you haven't idiot.
You're just a beginner and a moron who comes to /3/ to shitpost about how much you hate Blender users. You're a garbage artist and you know it, so you compensate by chimping out in software wars.

>> No.897521

>>897518
Stfu, Cris.

>> No.897522

>>897521
So when your back is against the wall and you know you've lost hard, you retort by trying to claim I'm cris? Even though my posting style is obviously completely different?

You are so goddamn stupid it's funny. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you were cris; your shitposting style is eerily similar and your lack of 3D knowledge would be reflected by your sheer lack of improvement for 10 years.

>> No.897552

>>897522
What's your take on maya?

>> No.897608

Rigging, animation, retopology, just everything blows blendshit out of the water. Glad I switched over, never looking back to Blender anymore. God fucking damnit, I won't miss my rig in blender causing it to run at 8 fps anymore. Piece of shit software

>> No.897610

>>897608
Quad draw tool, much better than fiddling with your shitty vertices points dragging them around in Blender and being a hotkey monkey

>> No.897717

>>897608
>Rigging, animation, retopology, just everything blows blendshit out of the water.
How?

>> No.897726

>>897717
I already said one point. Adding a skeleton won't cause Maya to run at 8 fps while animating. Rigging has a better feel along with a better provided toolset. Maya can handle more polys than Blender crashing.

>> No.897728

>>897726
>I already said one point
Yeah, just one.
When you say something like:
>Rigging, animation, retopology, just everything blows blendshit out of the water
I'd like to think you have more than just one point of contention.

Stuff like this:
>Rigging has a better feel along with a better provided toolset
Is entirely subjective, unless you can further explain yourself.

>> No.897738

>>897728
My god this guy >>897484 is right you just work backwards from assuming that Blender is the best

>> No.897739

>>897738
Again, I was asking some simple questions. It's not my problem you were too big of an idiot to answer them.
Just accept you're a beginner in 3D and don't actually know anything about Maya or Blender.

>> No.897742

>>897739
anon, we have told you a dozen times the exact answers to your questions. Objectively at least 10x perf for one! What is wrong with you?

>> No.897745

>>897742
>anon, we have told
>we
There you go again, pretending you're acting on behalf of a collective.
You're clearly the only one struggling here, which is why you've resorted to gaslighting like this.

There are a few people who have provided some answers my questions, but you're very clearly not one of them. It's only natural, because you're clearly a beginner and a moron :)

>> No.897746

>>897745
Are you crazy

>> No.897749

>>897746
he's still convinced he's talking to one person
typical blendlet cannot rationalize being wrong, he was raised by youtubers and it did to him what tv did to the boomers.
he should get off the copium and get back on meds instead.

>> No.897756

>>897745
Yes, we, now stop posting you retard you're just making a fool of yourself

>> No.897762

>>897756
>getting this desperate
I already know you're a moron, you don't need to dig yourself deeper.

>> No.897763
File: 17 KB, 225x225, 1430561709628.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897763

ITT: A beginner-level spastic goes crazy after he fails to answer even the most basic of questions relating to the differences between Blender and Maya, and gets exposed for not actually knowing anything about either software.

>> No.897771
File: 57 KB, 328x346, bac.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897771

>ITT: A beginner-level spastic goes crazy after he fails to answer even the most basic of questions relating to the differences between Blender and Maya, and gets exposed for not actually knowing anything about either software.

>> No.897780

>>897775
>6 years as a mid
>brushes off python as little more than a gimmick

yeah, I guess that's why you've spent 6 years stuck in a mid position and then left.
do you craft rigs by hand still? or do you keep hoping rigify wont shit the bed? Or maybe you're rigging wooden sticks, I don't know.

>> No.897785

>>897775
why was swapping to blender the best choice you ever made when all you listed was downsides to the swap?

>> No.897796

>>896808
Blender is free.

>> No.897803
File: 322 KB, 690x394, 1631517384515.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897803

>>897775
> For most animation needs you will NEVER EVER need any complex tools at all.

>People who tell you Blender sucks compared to Maya are cosplaying retards. End of story.

>> No.897805

>>897785
not just that but cached playback is a literal fucking meme. It doesn't work half the time and it's prone to shit the bed.
maya's rig performance advantage is not in the cached playback AT ALL, it's in the underlying architecture. All it needs is multi-core skincluster evaluation and it will be even better.
>yfw maya's 20+ year old skin deformer is still the best in the biz

>> No.897806
File: 6 KB, 259x195, 1624633077857.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897806

>>897805
again...studios are by and large not using skincluster anymore, but are using muscle simulations which replace maya's implementation of skincluster. For humans and for animals...

>> No.897821

>>897820
you are glowing

>> No.897832

Fuck this. It's a retard AI made to troll.

>> No.897837

>>896813
Td & CFX?

>> No.897838
File: 1.74 MB, 4032x3024, IMG_20211025_182738_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897838

New to the thread, don't want to shit up the board with this similar question:

I have nothing against proprietary software. I simply have never used it. I used blender as a kid back around 2.32. Now, coming back to it, all of its workflows are second nature to me. Feels like everything 'just werks'. I understand this is uncommon, but I actually feel really at home in blender's UI.

However, unlike when I was a kid, I've got a bigboy job and software pricing is mostly trivial to me now. What am I missing out on from other software?

Also, up above there was some discussion of NLA being outdated+having workarounds. Can you guys describe them? Please ignore blendlets who get emotional or vice versa, I'm just using NLA a lot right now for a project and want to understand its limitations better and have no frame of reference. So far I've been able to achieve anything I need to maybe with a little python, but it will be helpful to know where I'm gonna hit speed bumps.

>> No.897844

>>897838
No, you're not. It's still 18 posters, you liar.

>> No.897845

>>897832
Do you always sperg out and cry like this when someone rightly exposes your stupidity?

>> No.897867

>>897775
>>Used Maya for 6 years as a rigger/TD reaching medior level.
>>Said fuck Maya its a dying software with no future

the problem was with you not advancing with the software. this is why you feel like it has no future.

most studios would consider you senior level after six or seven years of Maya or a few years of TD work if you were developing plugins and pipeline tools by then, which you should have been if you really wanted to do TD work at a high level.

now heres the challenge, if you dont reach beyond your capabilities in Maya, IN Blender. Then YOU wont be moving forward.

>> No.897875

>>897845
Talk about maya vs blender without insulting.
Ask me anything and I'll tell you. I've 5 years of movie production experience and 7 years of experience in AAA games. (environment artist, later character artist and now technical artist)
I've learned blender on the side for the past 4 years, because I'm always open to new software.
Ask away.

>> No.897910

>>897875
>>897875
How expensive are all the plugins together you use at AAA studios?

What's the point of using Blender when you have a super saiyan version of Maya that can assimilate whatever you like about Blender through a TD?

>> No.897912

>>897910
>How expensive are all the plugins together you use at AAA studios?
Usually you already have all needed plugins, most of them being in-house stuff, that's extra made for the occasion and not publicly available. So I can't say much about the cost, artists don't manage that anyways. I think there was one occasion where an animator didn't have Animbot for some reason and the supervisor quickly got the files for him, they usually have licenses laying around.
>What's the point of using Blender when you have a super saiyan version of Maya that can assimilate whatever you like about Blender through a TD?

I have my private version of Maya, the company has its own with all the bells and whistles on their own company machines. Which, by the way, are sometimes terrible.
A friend of mine worked on game of thrones at pixomondo and he was constantly annoyed by how slow the machines are, or at least were.
To answer your question: I am just trying it out to see how it is, as a hobby. Sometimes I run across weird files and someone has an import script written for blender, so I use it as an import slave.

>> No.897916

>>897912
Thank you for your answers. How did you start out work? Did you make portfolio that blew some studio's pants off, and were there connections involved?

As far as I know after your modeling with the industry software has become ingrained into your muscle memory, you work on filling your portfolio with a style/niche in mind that you, determined earlier, based on what modeling focus you're working towards. I don't know the ideal portfolio count but was informed that 3 beautifully modeled assets with a clean wireframe will be much better received than 12 sloppy ones. But now what? Other than posting stuff on art station and praying you get lottery lucky and someone comes to you, do you just send out demo reels wherever but prioritize the studios that will would be more interested in the style your models were made? Do you figure out how to build your own brand and market yourself? What's the next step after you've obtained the skills and finished that portfolio?

>> No.897922

>>897844
I promise on my life that was my first post in the thread

>> No.897926

>>897916
It was a little different 12 years ago. I already know a bunch of people in both industries, so usually, I just get asked "hey, asshole, I got a job, wanna join? It'll be fun"
But I'll tell you what will significantly increase your chances of getting into the industry
>AAA games and films
if you're a rigger or "technical animator" you're basically in and can call everyone a stupid nigger and they can't do anything about it, because they are highly in demand.
My guess is that you want to be a modeller. Just so you know, character artists are never sought after. Main characters always get modelled by seniors, everything important is made by seniors and they can be divas sometimes, lol.
So your best bet is to be a prop artist or environment artist, those are hidden gems, not many people apply for those positions, because they're not as glorious as character artists.
>small studios, indies and advertisement companies
Generalists are usually more in demand for these guys and their standards are much lower. You can start here.
>Quality of your work (hard surface modelling point of view)
As a junior your reel must start with your best, highest quality work that you can achieve. Period. Textures are also recommended.
It has to have clean geometry and you have to show off, that you are absolutely capable of modelling hard surface props.
You should know about clean topology. (!!!)
I can't tell you exactly what to model, it depends on where you want to work. Applying to work on games at blizzard with highly detailed, photorealistic ww2 tanks is a bad idea, because it doesn't match their artstyle. You get the idea.
>applying
you can apply for announces or directly at companies, even if they're not really looking.
Alternatively, you can befriend artists on artstation, but you know, this takes a while.. you can't just go "sheeesh the topology on that troondilator is lit bro frfrdoyouhaveajobforme?"
>own brand and market yourself
not my speciality. sry

>> No.897928

>>897916
>>897926
by the way, and I'm not even joking, HR are a bunch of faggot leftists, if you're black, or even better a native american, they'll most likely pick you for the second round. (but the artists who will ask you technical things won't give you good boy points)
Also if you are indian and HR is indian, you're also pretty much guaranteed to go to 2nd round.

>> No.897930
File: 364 KB, 915x636, soldier.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897930

>>897928
So going back in a time machine, creating a generic demo soldier at a French Canadian 3D school after a year that gets me a junior character artist job at Eidos right after graduation, and taking HRT to get promoted to lead responsible for modeling and texturing Adam Jensen would be the best path towards becoming a lead character artist like Laura Gallagher

https://www.artstation.com/lipstick/profile

>> No.897936

>>897926
Rigger isn't out of the question since I know I need to be dynamic and able to adapt to changing market conditions. That soon I'll want to take my models to the next level. Only issue right now is starting from square one knowing little about rigging before I've even finished the first goal I set my mind to after working nonstop all year, and that's a demoralizing bad habit I don't want to fall back into. Do you have some good prop recommendations to work on because many I try aren't challenging and are little more than primary forms with textures on them, and I don't know what's in demand for props other than cars, custom furniture, and medical equipment.

>> No.897938

>>897875
>Talk about maya vs blender without insulting.
My bad, I think I mistook you for the actual troll.

>> No.897940

>>897930
Just be a remote working Daz chad. Leave the 20th century model of office cuck work behind.

>> No.897944

>>897936
Try hard surface props that incorporate a lot of curves.
Photo cameras, musical instruments, gadgets pre smartphone, of course anything mechanical, robots etc.
I sometimes browse through the 2d section of artstation and ask artists if I can 3d model their drawings.
Alternatively you can design your own. It's great fun.
Architecture is another thing that you can try. Archviz is also a good choice for beginners.
Put up some walls, floor ceiling, add lighting, add some props etc. The trick is to keep it in a realistic scale.
If you get demoralized or are not in the mood, just start the program, and boolean a bunch of primitives together.

>> No.897955
File: 20 KB, 300x280, pauldron.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
897955

>>897785
Because I'm not an intellectually dishonest shill. Yes, there are some downsides in Blender comparing to Maya.

But then again there are also a shitload of upsides to Blender that have already been mentioned in a million threads and anyone using Blender for longer than a month will find out themselves.

For my needs Blender made my workflow a lot faster despite the downsides.

>>897780
>reading comprehension
Didnt say I was a mid for 6 years, I said I reached mid in 6 years of maya. Thats from being a drooling noob to having a respectable wellpaying job. I couldn't stand corp so I left otherwise I'd already be senior.

>>897803
I was referring to graph editor tools. You don't need anything more complex than the other guy >>897298 already pointed out.

>> No.897956

>>897350
You're a schizo idiot.

>> No.897957

>>897867
>>897955
Wasn't a mid for 6 years, I said I reached mid in 6 years. Obviously there was still stuff for me to learn in Maya I would never deny that. But there's no point denying Maya is dead software. Autodesk is just a shell company filled with lazy managers milking its decaying userbase dry till the last drop. Only thing they do is buy out the competition here and there to extend the squeeze a little longer.

>> No.897961

>>897944
What are your thoughts on booleans? An industry senior told me they avoid them because of the problems they cause with topology and would rather just flat model and multi-cut their way into making holes. But using booleans would be ideal and if I go back to blender I still want to look into things like boxcutter and hardops and have individual origins again that scale together correctly.

>> No.897975

>>897926
What is the money actually like? Hours?

>> No.897977

>>897955
Please tell me blender's benefits as well as specific limitations to NLA & graph editors vs maya, even if they're so advanced they're irrelevant. What about shaders/modeling/rendering?

i don't hang around in CG threads at all. I've been a traditional artist for 12 years (oil, clay, some wood) and I'm picking up blender and most stuff feels really easy. But I want to understand my options better.

>> No.897981

>>897955
You might not need the more complex tools, but it's not just about that, it's the general flow of things, and how much faster working with Maya's graph editor is compared to Blenders, just in basic functionality and usability. Add to that something like AnimBot, and there's really no contest on which is faster to animate with. Yes, you don't necessarily need them, but you will animate faster with Maya, assuming you're used to it, and animation tends to be one of the most expensive parts of any bigger project if you measure it in total hours worked, so even the small things like an extra click here, and another there, add up to a lot of wasted time. Add to that the clearly worse performance blender has framerate wise for a similarly complex rig, why would any animator want to work in Blender over Maya? I can have two fully animated 3 million poly characters in a relatively complex scene, and it's still perfectly workable, with an average fps of 20. And no, I don't use the animation cache feature to achieve that, as it's too finicky in my opinion.

In short, a lot of the stuff that seems very minor to a non-animator, can in reality be massive time savers for an animator.

Here's an okay video that explains some differences in the graph editor for example, skip to 13:00, if the time link isn't working. Granted, it's a couple years old, so some of those might have been fixed.

https://youtu.be/L-vLraYGir8?t=780

I admit, that it's been a long time since I personally tried out blender, and I assume things have gotten better since, but the thing is, it would need to become noticeably better than Maya in animation & rigging, not just on par, for me to feel like making the the switch is worth the re-acclimation to a new UI. And I'd assume it's the same for most animators.

>> No.897987

>>897957
>Maya is dead software
I know why you feel this way, but I think you fail to understand what it means to be the industry standard, and why Maya will be quite fine.

You think Maya is dead because you compare it to Blender's dev more recently and you see how much has changed with all the new stuff in every update, and you think that Blender will eventually overtake it. I get that, and that's great for Blender users. However, the film/game industry doesn't really seem to care at all about that does it? Now, you might ask why is that?

Well, being industry standard means that large studios and people who pay for Maya, have expectations that are particular to paid software.
1. They expect technical support. They want it. This is the key and most important requirement from Autodesk (not updates)
2. They expect updates that break their pipelines to be few and far in between.

expectaion #1 is why Blender cant replace Maya for the majority of studios.
#2 is why Autodesk only adds features that have been available (often for years) from third parties, which are often tools that vfx studios have written for their own pipelines, proven through many productions and brought to Maya. This is why features are added sparingly.

So, you see, people have been saying the dev is lacking and Maya is dying or dead since Autodesk bought it.
However, Maya is almost nothing like what it was 10 years ago, and I know for a fact that Autodesk works closely with major studios to develope Maya around their needs. This is why a lot of updates are generally for performance optimizations, stability improvements, and small extensions to existing tools. This is why Maya inarguably has the best rigging tools, animation tools, hair grooming and rendering system of any animation program. This is the Maya formula and why it's still the best thing out there even after 17 years under autodesk.

>> No.897998

>>897957
>>897987
Also, Maya caters a lot (mainly) to large studios with TDs that actively develop tools for Maya.
How many Blender users actually add to Blender outside of its developers? I don't know of any.
It's a different dynamic.
Maya has a well documented API so you can relatively easily access every part of how Maya operates if you were so inclined with a TD that's able to do so, while accessing that part of Blender requires looking through source code.
So when it comes to how tools work, it is much more important for the individual than it is for a large studio that has the ability to make or edit tools to work however they want.

>> No.898003

>>897998
ah I see, so the latest argument for why blender is better than maya is that it's...harder to script for?

I don't understand you man.

>> No.898004

>>897961
Booleans are a great tool if you know what's up and how to prepare the model's geometry and how to go from there.
There's also a remesher workflow where you just use only booleans to make your object and then remesh it, or retopo by hand, if you want to do that.
I'd advise starters to stay away from them until they have a good understanding of topology.
>>897977
The graph editor in maya doesn't start slowing down the program and last time I checked, you couldn't select multiple handles and manipulate them at the same time in blender.
Nla editor. Not sure, can you merge layers together?
Something like animation layers is imperative for animation if nla can accomplish that, good for blender.
It's a good piece of software for amateurs, hobbyists and maybe freelancers, but it is subpar for production. Just because some people like it, it won't make big companies rock the boat and adapt it into their pipelines, that's leftist söy mentality.
About rendering and shaders, depends. Maya has arnold but can use different renderers, v-ray, redshift, octane etc. and they are well supported.
For modelling, blender can be extremely annoying with its performance and set in stone workflow. Try adding a torus with a certain amount of edge loops, then a box and then try to change the attributes on the torus again. You won't be able to change parameters unless you do it manually.
If you want a job, btw just learn maya, you can't go wrong with it.
>>898003
Maya had MEL. Extremely useful for making scripts on the fly and for rigging, easy enough for artists to learn.
Blender needs python.
If you can modem something good in blender, you can do the same in maya and vice versa.
I've had enough of this software war topic.
Maya = industry standard and aryan.
Blender = steals your time and a nigger, just like OP.

>> No.898006

>>898003
no, you have it backwards.
Maya has a documented API that makes it easier to for someone to edit how it works, and write plugins for in either C++ or Python. Im not even talking about scripting. You can script in MEL or Python in Maya as easily as anything in Blender.
Blender has no API, and you need to look through the source code in order to see how it works, and recompile Blender if you want to change how it works. this is orders more difficult to learn and apply.

>> No.898007

>>898004
>Maya had MEL
It still has MEL, it's interface is written in MEL.
Python is just more capable and also easy to learn and write, so noone writes MEL scripts anymore, besides to edit the Maya interface.

>> No.898009

>>898007
except mpc :^)

>> No.898034

Who fucking knows maya!! the answer is simple noone.

>> No.898121

>>898055
>>No one writes scripts in MEL anymore.
>Yeah they do.
None was an exaggeration but very very few compared to 10 years ago. Like I said, the only reason to write MEL anymore is to edit the Maya interface, so mainly Maya devs would use it, and perhaps users who are starting to learn scripting in Maya and think it's a good idea, and I'm not talking about expressions.
I've written hundreds of MEL scripts when it was a thing, but the past few years have been exclusively Python.
Everything can be writen in Python with so much less code, and so much more can be done in Python that it makes no sense to script anything in MEL.

>> No.898124

>>898121
>requirements: Python
You're talking from your own experiences and you're most likely not an artist, but a rigger or generalist.

>> No.898131

>>898124
No, independently, I'm an artist, but on the job I'm a TD, simply because Im able to be and it pays more.
I dont consider maya artists dragging mel code onto the tool bar to be actually doing any coding, if that's your idea, and even that is a rare case.

>> No.898135
File: 217 KB, 879x641, journey'sbeginning.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
898135

>>897930
What the hell? Right out of a one year or 9 month program? Was this some sort of result from knowing the right someone at NAD or the school having a pathway to towards working at companies like Eidos as part of the academic program? Is this sort of thing even possible in 2022?
>maybe he had experience character modelling before entering school
Pic related was his first character sculpt at the start of the year, and you're definitely not working on a specific robust portfolio as a fresh novice trying to learn the Maya, Zbrush, and Photoshop for months while doing modeling exercises that aren't going into that portfolio. Also you're doing this all within the restrictions of the curriculum in such a short span of time where you have little breathing room to prioritize your weak points that you absolutely do not want to show off to AAA studios. And Gallagher even says much of his work he trashes as just sketch practice.

>> No.898139

>>898135
i'm saying this from experience.
companies have a female hire quota. if you're female, you're almost garanteed a job in tech nowadays no matter how qualified you are. it's particularly easy to get a decent position too if you have any credientials or training.

>> No.898141
File: 33 KB, 680x763, 66f-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
898141

>>898121
>need to run obscure command I rarely use in main python function
>click
>click
>copy command echo from script editor
>undo
>mel.eval(*paste echo*)

>> No.898154

>>898141
devilish

>> No.898157

>>898131
It doesn't matter what you consider. It's being used and it's an upside to blender period.

>> No.898164

>>898157
>It's being used and it's an upside to blender period.
No, actually MEL is legacy and a waste of time.
The original point was no one WRITES in MEL anymore. No one argued that it's not still being used, the interface is written in it. Using the interface means you're using MEL.
And the fact that you think artists using copying and pasting MEL commands means they're writing MEL scripts reveals you as really knowing nothing about coding or what the original argument was.

>> No.898169

>>898164
Oh fuck off, you lying prick. You can't lose an argument, so you argue in bad faith. Open your veins and die, you faggot. I'm done with you.

>> No.898173

>>898139
That's a guy and who knows when he went full blast on the HRT train, since he got fast-tracked from class of 2007 right into junior character artist for Deus Ex in January of 2008.

Was there some sort of Transgender quota as well in the gaming industry in the 2000s or did they legally count towards fulfilling the woman quota?

>> No.898199
File: 136 KB, 1200x800, ~(you).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
898199

>>898169
>lying
Python is more capable, easier to write, and faster than MEL in Maya. That's not a secret to lie about. That's why Python was added. Why the hell would anyone write in MEL anymore outside of Maya devs unless they were retarded artists who know nothing about how Maya works like you? Every Maya TD who eer wrote in MEL has switched over to Python. The industry has switched over to Python. The only reason MEL still exists in Maya is because it's deeply integrated into interface. This makes it in fact a LEGACY.
But don't take my word for it. Keep keep telling people you're using MEL and it's great.

These are facts, retard.

>> No.898218
File: 13 KB, 208x250, 1599091991465.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
898218

>>898210
>You absolute retard are just too stupid. Stop your larp and try suicide.
>You can leave your reply on your suicide message. No one's going to read it anyways.

You've exposed yourself as knowing nothing about scripting, or Mel or Python, yet you speak on it like you have experience. Your opinions and *arguments on it are simply humorous and cringe at this point. You did not refute one single point made, but still wanted to argue, just to end up crying like a little bitch. wahhh wahh

>> No.898223

best version of maya?

>> No.898237

>>898218
Hahahaha, don't shit yourself. I know what's up and don't need to be lectured by some hobbyist codenigger about the industry in which I have worked for over a decade.
That said, read the thread again, you faggot and maybe you understand why I'm not going to argue with an amateur like you.
I prefer to insult you, since it clearly makes you shit yourself and everytime you do, you expose yourself als the larper you are. Lmaoo
(Also kill yourself and your family)

>> No.898244

>>897987
The technical support argument is kinda bullshit though. Its just something managers want to cover their asses. Everyone knows Maya crashes are notorious, it crashes so often and unexpectedly its not even funny. Meanwhile I've only had Blender crash when I accidentally set my subdivs to 10 and exceed my hardware limitations. Also Blender crash recoveries are absolutely legendary I've never lost more than a single minutes work from a single crash, not something I can say about maya.

Maya as industry standard is understandable because Blender as a alternative wasn't even around when the industry got established. Understandable nobody wants to go through the trouble of disrupting their existing pipeline either, but its all very much driven by sunk cost fallacy at this point and not because maya is inherently that much better.
Thats why saying >muh industry standard
Is not an argument for why Maya is better, only for why its being used more.

But this will change as the talent pool for Maya users is pretty much going to dry up. They've shot themselves in the foot so many times they deserve to die at this point and I won't shed a tear for all those thickheaded Maya Boomers losing their jobs.

>> No.898319
File: 62 KB, 256x256, C4D_Logo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
898319

okay enough about maya vs blender.

What about 3ds max, cinema 4d and houdini?

I haven't been around the space much since 2011 and back then the fanboy wars were between like 6 different pieces of software and 3Ds Max was king. Now it seems like all anyone mentions in seriousness is Blender and Maya.

>> No.898325

>>898244
Retard take. Blender can't handle heavy scenes. Can't even handle one heavy rig without shitting the bed.
That alone is already a reason for it to never be industry standard.

>> No.898329

>>898325
>one heavy rig
>has never heard of proxy's
>who's the retard

>> No.898330

>>898319
Max still mops the floor with everything else when it comes to modeling.

>> No.898404

>>898329
>has to animate his shot a million times because proxy still slow
>playblast button gets erroded
>has to constantly hide rigs
>still sub 10 fps, like IQ
Blendlets are the worst.
Pirate maya, you retards.

>> No.898442

>>898404
Idiot.

>> No.898447

>>898446
I'm happier to just laugh at what a loser you are.
Most people don't get invested in software wars, and yet here you are hurling abuse at anyone who uses a program you don't like.

>> No.898449
File: 34 KB, 600x554, 1650924950002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
898449

>>898447
>mimimi making shit up, because no arguments and retarded

>> No.898456

>>896808
i really liked maya's set driven keys. that was a fantastic feature. im sure blender has something similar, but just having a constant menu on the right showing the transforms and allowing you to set constraints and the set driven keys right from there was super easy, didnt require any complicated scripting or menu diving

thats probably my biggest beef with blender is just how hidden everything is.

>> No.898460

>>898447
Hahahahaha! He reported it, lmao

>> No.898462

>>896961
>In Blender a rig might run barely with 25 fps, in Maya the same rig runs 60+ with SubD enabled and maybe even with an additional cached layer of cloth sim on top of it.
how the fuck is that acceptable for blender users

>> No.898463

>>898004
Idiot.

>> No.898541

>>898456
>just how hidden everything is

I've only ever used blender but I've never understood this complaint. When I use blender everything feels like it's right at my fingertips. Then again, I'm real confident with python and I've been using blender since I was 10 so that could be the bias.

>> No.898664

>>898462
>how the fuck is that acceptable for blender users
simple....they don't know.
Just look at this thread, I posted this a week ago, but retards are still arguing that Blender is just as good...it doesn't register, they have a selective perception and confirmation bias.
Next week one of these retards will make another Maya vs Blender thread and it starts again from scratch.
Ask me how I know (we've been there before...).

>> No.898669

>>898664
Actually you were just being asked questions.
Questions you were clearly too stupid to answer. That, and you weren't qualified to answer them from the start because you're beginner-level.

>> No.898671

>>898462
F/free

>> No.898675

>>898671
My 3dsMax, Maya, Houdini, Nuke, Substance Painter and Mari is free too...I just fly the black flag and the price dissolves like salty tears in the rain.

>> No.898676

>>898669
Actually you have gotten a ton of answers.
Calling people stupid noobs does not make the truth go away, but maybe it helps with your headache?
Even if it doesn't hurt, you should go see a doctor.

>> No.898679

Can i run maya on linux?

>> No.898680

>>898676
>Actually you have gotten a ton of answers.
Where? I think 1-2 people gave fair answers, and there were also some people making good cases for Blender.

For the most part, this thread mostly consists of you sperging like a retard and hurling abuse towards anyone mentioning the positive aspects of Blender.

>> No.898683

I don't like navigating in blender after having used a maya for a few weeks and I didn't even like maya at first.

And in the end the mentality of industry people is no one care how you got to your result. If the tool gets the job done then good. But for blender people it's a matter of console wars 3dcg edition.

>> No.898686

>>898683
>But for blender people it's a matter of console wars 3dcg edition.
Literally the complete opposite judging by this thread. It's Autodesk fanboy hurling all the abuse.

>> No.898691

The only thing preventing me from ditching Blender is that I don't want to pay nor pirate for the moment. But the latest version of Blender has been successfully pushing all my fucking annoyed buttons, the latest one being who the fuck thought enabling motion blur by default was a good idea???
I fucking swear, Blender picks the shittiest options available every fucking time.

>> No.898696

gotta admit that the rigging feature in Blender is
needlessly complicated.

>> No.898714

>>898696
Explain

>> No.898751

>>898714
You're a retard.
/Thread

>> No.898763

>>898714
>>898748

>> No.898793

>>898664
I have used maya for 6 years
Still switched to blender and will never go back
Where is your god now?

Everyone with more than a few years 3D experience will see through these maya user strawman fallacies

>> No.898795

>>898696
Actually its not, its very nicely modifier based(unlike maya's fake 'nodebased' system). The only thing convuluted in blender is doing set driven keys which is much nicer in maya. But having model/edit/pose mode is a huge advantage for rigging in blender compared to maya

>> No.898803

>>898686
kek no kidding. Normie maya users especially cry if you dare use pirate autodesk products thinking making something in Maya without the permission of a multi national and multi billion dollar mega corp on the sp 500 is the same as stealing a car from the moralizing nigger.

>> No.898808

>>898686
>hurling abuse
abuse comes from provocation you dumb fuck.

>> No.898813

>>898808
It comes from you being a mentally unstable retard who's very frustrated with life.

>> No.898815

>>898813
Prove it.
I can prove that this retard op makes new threads and when people answer normally he's being retarded etc. which makes people attack him.
Also, don't you know where you are, dumbfuck?

>> No.898817

>>898793
>strawman fallacies
elaborate

>> No.898818

>>898815
>Prove it.
Trust me sweety, anyone can see you're a mentally ill freak from the way you carry on in these Blender vs Maya discussions. It's also quite easy to deduce that you're beginner level.
>I can prove that this retard op makes new threads and when people answer normally he's being retarded etc. which makes people attack him.
Actually you can't, idiot. This is an anonymous imageboard, you can't prove anything like that without being a moderator.
>Also, don't you know where you are, dumbfuck?
Thank you for further displaying your mental illness :)

>> No.898822

I refuse to use blender solely because of its userbase. I don't even know if it's good or not, I won't even download it.

>> No.898828

>>898818
So this is what cris does now? being a complete no progress retard was not enough?

>> No.898829

>>898803
I will shit on blender any day of the week in favor of maya as far as OP's topic goes, but you're retarded if you think I'm paying for it or suggesting anyone should do so.

>> No.899163

>>896808
Another major advantage blender has with rigging is vertex groups. Seriously this shit is overpowered.
You can remove bones, move bones, replace bones, mirror bones. But as long as the vertex group is correctly named (literally name of bone) it will automatically reskin itself. You can also easily add a new bone to an existing skin by creating a new vertex group with the name of that bone, you don't even have to select it.

The amount of versatility and more importantly non-destructibility of this system is something Maya severely lacks. Maya has an extremely destructive workflow compared to Blender when it comes to rigging. Yes in Blender you will have to click a few extra buttons for most actions but man its nice to have that extra steady control that doesn't crash and burn the rig down when you change something drastically.

>> No.899685

The problem with Blender and animation is its developers suck. Years ago Blender 2.79 was the latest version, it was possible to have three 200 bone rigs while the viewport could run at 60fps. All three meshes could have two subdivisions and the performance wouldn't suffer. The reason for this was pixar opensubdiv was running in blender. With physics baked.

Then 2.80 came around and they decided to rewrite the code for subdiv and replace it. The rewritten code sucked and they decided to bring back the old code. They still haven't brought back the old version's performance six years later.

There are probably more reasons for the bad performance in blender now. Recent Blender is probably just getting too bloated. Unoptimized, slow, and crashes more often than it should.

>> No.899819

>>899685
Except I've never had Blender crash on me unless I accidentally put subdivs at like 10 and my cpu says no

>> No.899822

>>899819
Then you've been using blender for like a week. I love blender but this shit people say about it never crashing is just disingenuous

>> No.900113
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900113

>>896808
Blender is year behind in implementation of new techniques and another year behind on stable well documented branches.

I find blender capability fucking impressive for what it is. Blender is just 1 just one developer decision away from becoming perferct 3d software for everything.

Sadly I won't see this dev decision in my lifetime.

>> No.900116

>>898793

You were never a good maya user to begin with. Also, actual pro 3dlets never spend their time on 4chin. This makes you a larping blendlet loser.

>> No.900360
File: 764 KB, 4096x2304, 20220220_035027.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
900360

>>898675
Out of topic but, where do you find cracked maya that doesn't fail at license check after a week? One of the popular 2022 version on cgpeers has this issue...

>> No.900367

>>900360
unironically take the blender pill

>> No.900376

>>899822
lowpoly shitter found.
that's the only thing this piece of shit software is good for.
low poly amateur garbage shit.

>> No.900611
File: 103 KB, 736x956, c38b08a427ec8c044bd104822180e77d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
900611

>>899822

Then give an example of having Blender crash on you and tell us how to replicate it. Oh wait... you can't.

>> No.900695

>>900611
Have a humanoid character.
Add rigify rig with automated weights.
Editmode rig.
Scale a bone.
Go to object mode.
Go to pose mode.
Move a bone.
Set keyframe.
Go to edit mode.
Move a different bone.
Hide a bone.
Go to object mode.
Go to pose mode.
Rotate a bone.
Set keyframe.
Go to edit mode.
Ctrl Z
>Crash

You can thank me later, blendnigger
This will also corrupt your last 2 backup files for some reason.

>> No.900766

>>898173
he just saw what was coming and secured himself a spot

>> No.901157
File: 66 KB, 774x773, Soldier.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
901157

>>900695
>makes up the most incoherent example ever
Thanks for proving my point retard
d44hk

>> No.901159

>>901157
>can't follow simple instructions
>chimps out like a retard
I farted. I will leave you with my fart, you might learn a thing or two, since it is only a few steps above you.

>> No.901167

>>901159
>fart insults
>maya fanboy
It all starts to make sense now

>> No.901169

>>900695
You couldn't think of a single Blender feature that reliably crashes. So you make up this retarded list of commands that nobody will ever encounter or use for anything as if that proves a point. I'm not even going to bother replicating that as I don't use rigify and you're probably lying anyway.

I could have told you Blender crashes pretty reliably when using the UVpacker tool and smashing the pack button a few times.
Or that topoflow tends to freeze blender. Things that people actually experience, not this made up dribble your smoothbrain came up with.

But yeh you just exposed you don't even use blender and you know so little about 3D you can't even make a convincing argument.