The Big Debate

[Anonymous No.750688]

What takes more skill, stylized characters or realistic characters? To make a realistic character you open up an anatomy book and then trace the proportions & details from pictures. To make a stylized character you have to use your imagination and can't use a book as a crutch to save you.

[Anonymous No.750691]

Realistic is now photogrammetry.
So stylized by a mile.

[Anonymous No.750696]

>>750688
stylized, but not another iteration of beaten to death animu aesthetic presented in the OP pic

[Anonymous No.750697]

how do I find muh style

[Anonymous No.750700]

>>750688
>you open up an anatomy book and then trace
So, what you're saying is, you don't know anatomy?

[Anonymous No.750705]

>>750688
Everyone can make something they claim is stylized, almost none can make something look real.

When you're doing something stylized there is no exact target for you to reach so if your work has appeal or not is for the audience to decide.
When you go for realism anyone and everyone can tell how unsuccessful you are at reaching your goal.

Your take on the subject comes off like a coping mechanism to justify why you should be able to go straight to making anime girls without putting in the work.
That's completely fine anon, but you will notice how guys who studied the subject properly will be running circles around you.
Because When you go for style knowing real you'll be very deliberate in how you change that real to arrive at something stylized.
When you go for style not knowing how to make something realistic you're fumbling to hit a bar you don't really know where it is.

[Anonymous No.750729]

Don't you have to learn realistic before moving to stylized?

It's called knowing the rules before you break the rules. If you break the rules without knowing them, you make something that looks like shit.

[Anonymous No.750748]

Which is harder? Realistic, by a million miles.
Which is more creative? Stylized, by a million miles.
Which has more job prospects? Stylized, because realistic is being slowly but surely automated away.

[Anonymous No.750807]

>>750748
If realistic can be automated then it's easier

[Anonymous No.750815]

The big debate:

Has OP ever made a single 3d model in his life?

[Anonymous No.750822]

>>750697

find styles that you think are cool, break down what exactly about them that you find cool, ape them into some sort of amalgamation, hope it turns out

[Anonymous No.750824]

>>750729

Thats a rule for stupid people. It suggests a linearity to learning an art skill set that doesn't exist outside of the boundaries other put up for you to abide by.

What do you think happens, you learn a stylized workflow and that somehow precludes you from ever learning realism as a consequence?

You are a silly person.

[Anonymous No.750830]

stylized requires to actually know how to texture which is the hardest part

[Anonymous No.750856]

Stylized is easier because it's just a simpler abstraction than "realism", which is of course yet another level of abstract garnered from reality. The simpler you go, the easier it is in terms of skill input. As in terms of creativity, I would argue that the laws of reality dictate how creative you can truly be, meaning the freedom to do what you want with the subject at hand is limited the further abstract you go. Stray too far from reality, and your "realism" becomes uncanny. Use too much creativity and laxness in your subject, and it becomes alien and foreign in poor formation.

/3/ will have this debate over and over, repeating until the end of 4chan itself simply because you are mediocre. You can't accept hard truths. It does not matter what you personally think, shitposter. Your intelligence does a disservice to /3/ and you've brought down the posting quality of this board with your pathetic, I repeat: Pathetic thread topics which you know are purposely incendiary. But you really do believe stylized is harder, and of course there's no way I could ever change your mind because your mutt brain can't handle it. So you'll sit and respond in a shitpost, and I will ignore it because I hid the thread like usual. You have absolutely no counter to this position, and if you think you do then you've garnered my contempt for not having some self awareness.

[Anonymous No.750861]

>>750856
tl;dr

[Anonymous No.750888]

>>750856
>The simpler you go, the easier it is in terms of skill input
another smooth brain answer from the dunning–kruger avatarfag, stylised and realism are a spectrum. By the time you've got great at one, you could have focused on the other. People don't, because they find gay pixarshit more interesting than well sculpted men.

>You have absolutely no counter to this position,
>>I will ignore it because I hid the thread like usual.
kek. What did OP do to make you seethe this hard?

[Anonymous No.750889]

>By the time you've got great at one
I mean. If you go out of your way to practice one, you're going to get better at the other.

[Anonymous No.750892]

>>750888
Avatarfag guy does seem to have his inner demons but overall what the guy says is on point time and time again.
If you unpack his statements and look past the hostile language it seems to me one can gleam a will to help.

I don't think he has any dunning-kruger vibe going, it's more like these hard won truths uttered by an intelligent guy
who has seen so much shitposting he's now drowning in it.

[Anonymous No.750901]

>>750688
I say stylised. Because when you think stylised, you think hand painted textures.

And when you think realistic, its just going into quixel megascans and finding textures that were photo scanned in the real world. Go ask industry professionals when they're working with realistic textures. I bet most of them say they use textures that are already scanned or from websites like quixel.

Therefore stylised is much harder because you can't just cheat it.

[Anonymous No.750902]

>>750688
Any artist that can make realistic art can make stylized art quite comfortably. The reverse is rarely true
And there is a simple way to see it for yourselves. I'm sure there are a lot of beginners and middle level artists around here, try to make a stylized character and a realistic one and see which one comes closer to how it's supposed to look

[Anonymous No.751011]

>>750902
just because you can draw realistically doesn't mean its worth it

[Anonymous No.751027]

>>751011
>just because you can draw realistically
>you can draw
>draw
Are all these stupid "versus threads" made by /ic/ tourists?

[Anonymous No.751032]

>>751027
the principal still applies to the question

[Anonymous No.751083]

>>750697
Model, look at your disaster and decide its your style.
Tell yourself that enough and make porn with it, sell out for mad cash to degenerates. Live in gleeful denial in your mansion.
No, I'm not protecting, why?

[Anonymous No.751097]

>>751083
If true, absolutely based
t. actual professional who wants to get some of the coomer shekels

[Anonymous No.751101]

>>751027
People from ic are incredibly unproductive and love drama so probably

[Anonymous No.751104]

>>751097
Get a fake mail address, create an Instagram (yeah, I know) account and a DeviantArt (YES, I KNOW) account. Call 'em the same and publish SFW shit on both, make the characters visually pleasing to an audience of your choice. This is the one part where you should put in as much effort as possible. Also make a high-poly and a retopo version of 'em. Rig 'em up properly.
Back to marketing. For example, if you decide to drain furries, make some characters that COULD fit in porn, but keep it SFW for now.
Don't hint at the connection between your Ig and DA accounts to avoid NSFW reports later. Demand for your work is probably high and supply is low, word will spread by mouth.
Gather feedback and work it in. I know you're a professional, but pretend you're learning and improving.
Make a Patreon, link it from DA only. Start uploading lewd shit once or twice a week, images only for now. If you rigged up your abominations properly, this'll take about 30 minutes a picture. Cash will begin to flow in.
[tbc]

[Anonymous No.751110]

>>751104
Continue uploading SFW stuff for that steady flow of customers from Ig.
After some time, move to animation. Don't RT that shit for now, render it with some real-time renderer. Do commissions if you feel like it. Show stuff early on Patreon and use the feedback.
Tell the audience that you can ramp up the quality for more shekels. Use those to grab an RTX 8000 card or rent a render farm from time to time. Grab stock HP resources and deliver with your rigged HP models, confirming that you're trustworthy (yeah, right).
Realize your artistic integrity now lives under a bridge, drinks cheap Vodka and eats rats. Don't give a shit because you make a fuckton of money. Work on whatever the fuck you want when not working on lewd shit, which takes up about 2 hours a week tops.
This works FAR too well. But since, e.g. furries shell out insane amounts of cash for 2D porn, it should come at no surprise they'll pay a fortune for 3D. Just don't post a link anywhere else (especially here) and don't let friends or family see that shit.

[Anonymous No.751112]

>>750688
realistic characters imo
its hard to do them without them looking uncanny
but for stylized stuff theres so many different art styles that you're more likely to find something easier, while realistic stuff is usually all the same

[Anonymous No.751113]

>>751104
Thanks anon, that's very very useful.
I'm a character artist and am planning with another dude(env/tech artist) to do a game(with actual assets and characters made by us, none of that daz stuff). I thought we should take this route especially because you basically reuse the same assets all throughout the game and don't have to churn a new char every other week.(That means I can actually put in almost cinematic level characters) Basically I was envisioning a very similar marketing strategy, with sfw models on main account and NSF promotionals on pages like DA or F95. I was also hoping to start us off with maybe something more vanilla (a game like "Dating My Daughter" or "Big Brother", but with significantly better renders/art), mostly because I don't think I can actually stomach yet to do vore pregnant Sonic fanart porn yet

[Anonymous No.751114]

>>751113
Not him but would you mind showing a wip sculpt or etc (no watermark needed) just to show us the level of detail you'd be bringing?

[Anonymous No.751116]

>>751113
No prob dude. Oh, one last thing when it comes to games. Unless you're creating beasts or anthromorphs, it pays to keep a modular collection of head shapes, body shapes and hair at hand. You can't use these everywhere, of course, but it allows you to mass-produce NPCs and other background characters. With those, adding mesh variations (not just textures) adds a lot to the game without spending too much time where it's not needed. Maybe that helped a bit.
I'd wish you good luck, but you seem to know your shit. You won't need it.

[Anonymous No.751117]

>>751114
I wish I could but as of right now I have only around seven likenesses blocked out and the overall script(had to finish some personal work first before actually focusing on this). But basically the current cinematic/AAA level of quality with xgen hair, texturingxyz pore maps, baked wrinkle maps, professional vray render(displacement based workflow for closeups/normal based workflow for far aways shots for faster rendering), maya cloth sims for jiggling parts like tits, etc.

[Anonymous No.751118]

>>751117
blurryanon?

[Anonymous No.751120]

>>751118
Nope, different dude.

[Anonymous No.751122]

>>751116
Thanks for the advice, man, very helpful stuff

[Anonymous No.751123]

>>751120
Well good luck. :P

[Anonymous No.751237]

>>751104
Im not sure about the DA part, isnt there any other better websites? Its 2020, im posting in artstation, DA is too amateur, shit tier.. I would even prefer reddit

[Anonymous No.751255]

>>751237
Yeah, but you're trying to reach an easily drained audience.
It works well, not claiming there's a better alternative, ymmv.

[Anonymous No.751258]

>>751237
DA has a lot of weirdo coomer boomers though, they got cash.

[Anonymous No.751259]

>>750815
lol

>>750688
neither takes more "skill" per se, if you know how to use the tools of the 3d application, realistic characters take far more time.

[Anonymous No.751269]

>>751237
Anons were talking about making coomer money, You don't post that on a site that technically is for "professional portfolios", like Artstation

[Anonymous No.751273]

>>751104
>>751110
So its better to not show everything at the beginning, I was planning on making a 3d game too but I dont have enough interesting content already.

Between this two options, its better to go slowly?
A- Throw everything at the beginning, showing an interesting project, with lots of configurations and update it month by month. But starting at a high level
B- Start posting just sfw content, static images, working your way out for months and once you are known, announce a big update

[Anonymous No.751279]

>>751273
I went with B. Of course your content can't be shit, aim for mediocre stuff tailored to the specific audience with high demand, but low supply.
The key here is to interact with your community. Even if you're 100% after their cash only, allowing them to witness and "shape" your learning progress, fake or not, makes them feel involved.
They are, in some way or another, part of the creative process and more willing to shell out for content you, an artist they like, created specifically for them. Throwing everything at them from the very start allows them to shape a project, but that's not as effective as allowing them to shape your style and progress.
Last but not least: Don't forget you are selling out and that they are customers. Even if you do the most twisted, disgusting fetish shit, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Hide your contempt, don't make fun of them, treat them with respect.

[Anonymous No.751280]

>>751273
Quality's a fine line. Old games can still look aesthetically pleasing, indie games with programmer art can as well.
You'll want to start at THAT level. Aim for a clean overall and most important consistent quality with a lot of room for improvement, but by no means bad.

[Anonymous No.751283]

>>751279
>>751280
Thanks, thinking about making it this way makes a lot of room for changes and "suggestions" as most of the customers from patreon and such love to interact with the creator.
I need to adapt my project, because showing everything would require a lot of work and even after that.. it doesnt mean it would succeed.

[Anonymous No.751289]

>>751283
Glad to help. That's the beauty of the internet, gaining feedback or making money from a good idea and tenacity has never been this easy.
Have fun!

[Anonymous No.751316]

>>750688
Why do video game characters like Mario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Peach, Sonic, Spyro, Crash, Croc and Banjo Kazooie all have such huge lasting appeal? Amazing shape language and stylized design.

It's why no one gives a shit about Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, Sly Fox, Yooka Laylie etc. Detail and complexity destroys good design.

Realistic design is nothing more than slight tweaks to human anatomy and costume (fashion) design.

Stylized characters are a whole different dimension of art, color, shape and more.

[Anonymous No.751317]

>>750696
I mean, i'm still a big fan of animu shit, but gotta say there's a lotta space for other styles, which are kickass and not even that hard lmao e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfR_p5BO-Yw

[Anonymous No.751336]

>>750691
Beat me to it.
People did photorealistic modelling for like 4 years between 05 and 09 and now it's scans and mocap. Its so cheap now.

[Anonymous No.751345]

>>750856
100% correct.

[Anonymous No.751348]

>>751316
They have slowly been updating Mario and all those characters. Plain Mario would have looked out of place in Odyssey so they added fabric details and detailed his hair. The new Ratchet looks phenominal too with all the fur detail. In comparison to Crash who now looks out of place in the his new game. The extra 5% details will be the deciding factor this gen. It's really obvious in the Crash vs Ratchet comparison.

[Anonymous No.751360]

>>751348
>Crash who now looks out of place in the his new game

I know that 3d artists very often have no sense of style whatsoever but what the fuck dude

[Anonymous No.751383]

>Realism is easier
k /3

[Anonymous No.751567]

>>751383
Couldn't you stir fry that in daz with a bit of sculpting? Stylized is harder because you HAVE to work from scratch otherwise it will not look appealing. That's how I see it.

[Anonymous No.751575]

>>751567
>daz, "work"

The absolute state of /3/.

[Anonymous No.751597]

>>751567
you have never modeled anything in your life have you

[Anonymous No.751604]

realistic renderings of objects that don't exist made from materials that can't be made

[Anonymous No.751630]

>>751567
Because I see decent works every now and then in the wip threads, sometimes I forget this place is absolute bottom of the barrel when it comes to 3d artists. Thanks for reminding me

[Anonymous No.751631]

>>750688
Tard

[Anonymous No.751641]

>>751630
Work smart not hard

[Anonymous No.751646]

>>751641
Playing with dolls in daz doesn't qualify as working at all, neither smart nor dumb

[Anonymous No.751647]

>>751641
there's nothing smart about doing crap in daz. it's just hours and hours of your life expending effort but not developing any skill. if you only started from scratch you could have been a master sculptor by now - but instead you "smartly" played around with sliders for a thousand hours and now you're exactly where you started. daz is a classic idiot trap, the 3d equivalent of poor people spending all their disposable income on lottery tickets.