/3/ - 3DCG

[Anonymous No.742671]

Do you have to be good at drawing to be a talented 3d artist? Honest question because I'm shit at drawing.. and never took a class in any school level. However I think modeling is really cool and fun. I just don't want to waste my time learning to model if my brain is incompatable to be talented at it.

[Anonymous No.742673]

The future is not 2d on paper, its sculpture in vr. You have to be good at sculpting in 3d vr.

[Anonymous No.742675]

>>742671
You don't need to be good at drawing, you just need a basic understanding of art if you want to go the creative route in 3d. If you're just looking to model things, and you're not interested in the creative aspect of 3d like coming up with concepts or scenes and that sort of thing, then you don't need any real art skills. It's all technical as far as that's concerned.
If you DO want to do creative things though, learning some art basics will benefit you in the long run. Drawing is one way of getting your foot in that door, but art is art, and art basics are pretty interchangeable between mediums. So take your pick of mediums.

You don't need to drop 3d and suddenly learn 2d to do good, you can learn 3d and art at the same time. It just might be harder to grasp some of the concepts as you're wrangling with how the 3d program itself works.

That being said, if you want to do people and sculpting, drawing will help there. If you really want to go that route, taking a life-drawing class is a good idea.

Modelling for the sake of modelling though, nah. No art required.

[Anonymous No.742706]

>>742671
>Do you have to be good at drawing to be a talented 3d artist?

Yes. Because you can legit not become good at one without automatically become good at the other in the process.
The very same brainfunctions that allow you to judge shapes and volumes well enough to allow you to pen them to paper is what you need to move vertices, polygons or clay.

We see the world form one side at the time, if you close one of your eyes that is a 2D image in-front of you no matter where you look.
In making art 3D is just 2D from multiple angles as far as your brain is concerned, therefore if you fail at 2D you automatically fail at 3D.

[Anonymous No.742715]

>>742706

This is what people who wasted money on an art degree believe but it's not needed you can take concept art and create it in 3D without ever needing to be able to draw.

[Anonymous No.742716]

>>742706
Not exactly true. I'm ok at drawing but suck majorly at sculpting.

[Anonymous No.742724]

>>742716
Perhaps you're not as good or bad at the other as you think you are.

I've been doing art for a long time and my drawing/sculpting/modelling are all on the very same level, if you understand how something is shaped what is stopping you from outputting that shape in any media?

If one can draw the contours of something with a stick in the sand, surly they can shape the sand to a volume with that form too.

[Anonymous No.742730]

>>742724

Not him, but I think you're confused. 2D drawing and 3D modeling are different skill sets, by your logic you should also be able paint at a level in line with your 2D and 3D skills.

2D drawing may help you grasp concepts and think about 3D in a way which you hadn't before, but your skill level in one doesn't reflect your skill in the other.

[Anonymous No.742797]

>>742730
I'm not confused at all. Drawing sculpting and modelling are the same skill because they all deal with shape.
Painting is a different beast because that deals with color and shading and it's completely possible to be excellent at
capturing form in both drawing and sculpting while simultanously being pretty shit at painting/texturing because you're then moving
into territory that requires you to develop a sensitive eye to color and a pretty deep understanding of the physical phenomena
you see before you to represent them well. Neither of which you will learn just from working geometrical relationships.

In 3D you can get away with being a pretty shit painter because there are shaders and lighting solutions that require a very low level of
comprehension on your part to turn out results that looks fairly competent. But on the high end you will need to develop those skills there too.

[Anonymous No.742818]

2D and 3D are just abstractions for conception. By letting go the semantics of '2D' and '3D', you find underlying principles that are needed to create strong, "traditional" art. Many people become confused and talk about modern art not needing these principles, "it's abstract!" they cry out. But all art is just stylization of reality, you cannot escape it, you exist within it. By understanding that all art benefits from the root principles of reality, you will know that 2D and its toolsets are not the same as knowing the components that make the toolset up.This same understanding applies to 3D, they are both separate classes that just hold overlap to one another, but the underlying skillset is found as a foundation beneath them.

You do not need to know 2D to create beautiful 3D. You need to know what lies beneath both, which is separate to knowing either. As a caveat I would argue it doesn't hurt to use whatever path you can to become the best you can be, but there is no rigid linearity you need to follow to become great.

[Anonymous No.742820]

>>742715
Most "concept art" is made by people who don't understand proportions from more than one angle. It looks right in 2D, but when you try and translate that to 3D it's all fucked and you end up spending more time fixing the concept than necessary.
Learn to assemble mood boards with vague styles and collect some elements you think would look good together, then you can start modeling while doing the "artist"'s job of taking things you've seen somewhere and changing their color.

[Anonymous No.742824]

>>742818
Very well articulated anon.

[Anonymous No.742867]

>>742818
What are some good places to learn the underlying fundamentals of traditional art?

[Anonymous No.742869]

>>742820
>Learn to assemble mood boards with vague styles and collect some elements you think would look good together, then you can start modeling while doing the "artist"'s job of taking things you've seen somewhere and changing their color.
And then instead of focusing on improving as a sculptor/modeling/texturing/shading artist which is already pretty complex and requires a lot of effort on it's own, you get to split your time trying to learn designing principles, deep compositional knowledge, color theory, lighting theory, because you're trying to be a concept artist/designer on top of your normal modeler expertise. What you'll probably end up getting is a mediocre to shit result from all of this starting with modeling and ending with the concept art you try to make. This "just make everything yourself, bro" is one of the most destructive mindset for beginner artists, as it makes you divide your attention between multiple things and you end up not mastering any of them

[Anonymous No.743506]

>>742671
No. Perspective and light/rendering (the shit that is solved automatically by 3D) is 90% of being good at drawing. In 3D if you know what a shape is and you know how to use your tools to make it and then all the more abstract rules of 3D (Topology, deformation, optimization) then you can just make that shape and it renders itself. In 2D if you know what a shape is you then need to know how to use your tools, know perspective, you need to be a draftsman and have the physical ability to accurately put the lines to paper, know how light interacts with shapes and materials to render it convincingly and so on. There's skill crossover in visualization, but being good at 3D won't make you better at any of that shit. Conversely, drawing won't teach you anything about the tools, rules or tech behind 3D. Both will give you the basic foundation of Knowing The Shape Of Things, knowing aesthetics and having a sense for design and that'll get you the tiniest bit of a leg up in art in general but it won't make you any better at the act of actually drawing if you're a 3D artist or actually constructing 3D if you're a 2D artist.

[Anonymous No.743509]

>>743506
There's a caveat though, and that is that all the stuff that is shared between the two skills applies to 3D sculpting, because sculpting is honestly just a combination of the easiest aspects of both crafts. If you were able to find a theoretical person who was a design/aesthetic genius without somehow doing any sort of art beforehand they'd probably be able to pick up sculpting in a few months, because it solves the issue of perspective, rendering and needing to be a skilled draftsman from 2D and the issue of needing to learn a billion different non-intuitive tools and rules from 3D. You wouldn't be able to get that same person to paint beautifully rendered paintings or become an expert in poly modeling in the same timeframe. This is also probably where the illusion of 2D being necessary for 3D comes from, because you'll learn all the things necessary to have a good foundation for sculpting doing 2D art, and you'll regularly see 2D artists picking up sculpting packages and almost immediately making decent work after they get the hang of them. It _is_ just an illusion though, because I know an absolute fucktonne of good 3D modelers and sculptors that can't draw. Like, the majority of them.

[Anonymous No.743556]

>>743509
>>743506

OP here. Thanks for the posts they were informative.

Also,
> know an absolute fucktonne of good 3D modelers and sculptors that can't draw

is really encouraging.

[Anonymous No.743562]

>>742675
I am very interested in making 3d landscapes and backgrounds, what art foundations should I get?

[Anonymous No.743603]

>>743562
Composition is a big one, arguably the most important for landscapes. Other things like basic color theory will help too, especially if you want to evoke a certain mood.

My best advice for learning these would be to pick up a camera and start shooting. Then take what you learn into 3d. If you don't want to take photos that's fine, you can learn it in 3d, but I think having a camera or even a basic paper viewfinder like pic related (literally just a piece of paper with a transparency sheet on it) will help you quickly pick up composition way faster than doing it in 3d. I'd still do 3d at the same time though so you can move those skills over.

As for color theory, that's a bit of a mixed bag. It's something you're just going to have to play around with and get a feel for. Maybe start with color palettes that others have made and learn why it works. Then move on to doing it on your own. Eventually things will click and you'll just know when something looks good. You might not be able to figure out why something is bad to fix something, but you'll know when things work.
Something that I suggest you really get a feel for and understand is color relationships. Things like complimentary, analogous, triads and that sort of thing. You don't need to know every relationship or anything like that, but it's a good foundation of knowledge you can pull from when you need to make something visually interesting/pleasing quickly. Then you can build upon that and make something richer visually.
A good tool to use to get a handle on relationships would be Adobe's color tool here ( https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel )

Lastly, some other things that will benefit you would be to learn about focal points and how to create them. It's an important skill as an artist to have the viewer look where you want them to look, and in a certain order to tell a narrative.

Hopefully this helps anon! If you've got any more questions, I'll try to answer them!

[Anonymous No.743636]

>>742671
I think with enough practice you can get good at it without needing to be good at drawing, but knowing how to draw certainly helps
just like how having 3d knowledge can help with drawing
two separate skills that greatly benefit one another

[Anonymous No.743645]

>>743556
This is what keeps happening with these threads, Op asks this tired question because he's worried he won't be able to git any guud, waits til someone like >>743506
>>743509 comes along and levitates his fears by giving him the answer he hoped for, ignoring it's prob a Dunning-Kruger type artisan authoring the post.

Armed with this knowledge he now sets out to trace over reference images in front/side viewport creating box-syndrome Chinese cartoon figures forever.
(Or you know, til he learns how to draw.)

Here's the dirty secret Op: a person who's been doing only 3D all his life and become "good" at it but still doesn't know how to draw,
is missing something very important in not understanding perspective and how lines flow into one another.
Looking at anything before them they don't really understand just what the fuck they're looking at but because they sorta-kindaish-almost do they manage to wing it into the ballpark of correct.
At this stage they already have most of the skills they need to connect the dots and be able to draw and will therefore be able to pick this skill up in a very short window of time.
If they chose to do so they'll find they've just supercharged their 3D skills and will complain about having shot themselves in the foot by not biting that bullet earlier.

Becoming a 'talented artist' is a project that will cost multiple years of dedication. The way you can lessen or extend that cost in time depends on how deliberately you practice.
Learning how to draw in conjunction with 3D is a massive shortcut to gain those skills you seek early on because it'll focus you like a laser
forcing you to think deeply about precisely the foundational tasks that's involved in capturing a shape as it truly exist before you.

[Anonymous No.743654]

>>742671
What you need to do is learn about deliberate practice, commitment and putting in mileage. If you can commit to practising every day in a methodical manner, then you will succeed. At some point deliberate practise may lead you to learning to draw 2d, or it may not.

[Anonymous No.743714]

>>742797
My hands shake as if I had parkinson's, moving vertices is much easier, because it's easily undone and repeated, until you can get the desired results. I can't draw a straight line if my life depended on it, and drawing ends up being fucking mess full of unnecessary lines and distorted shapes.

[Anonymous No.743715]

>>743714
Having good draftsmanship is not the same as being able to draw. One can render shapes using dotting, crosshatching or any number of techniques that require little hand/eye coordination or pinstripe type precision on your throws.

The fact you don't know this is revealing to how little insight you have on the subject. Turn that rock and look at what's beneath it and you'll learn something very useful.

[Anonymous No.743716]

>>743645
Alright so I just need to learn to draw at the same time as learning 3d. Like i said in my OP I have never taken a single drawing class ever so I'm sure my skills can be improved.

[Anonymous No.743718]

>>743715
Having shit craftsmanship is the same as being shit at drawing. You don't need to be all pretentious about it, you fucking faggot.

[Anonymous No.743719]

Watched one YouTube video then made this... I'm gonna make it bros

[Anonymous No.743721]

>>743718
If I lost my dominant limb tomorrow, or where forced to paint with my mouth or my foot, I would not be able to draft something that looked polished.
However I would still be perfectly able to place the pen precisely in the correct location and sketch out all the correct relationships between the shapes and angles.

There's nothing pretentious or astray from hetrosexuality going on with my statement anon. Motorfunction and spatial reasoning about shapes are not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.743725]

>>743721
Please post your mouth sketch results so I can laugh at your precise pen placement and perfectly drawn relationships.

[Anonymous No.743727]

>>743725
You do realize anyone who can draw could still dot down straight lines right?

[Anonymous No.743750]

>>743645
>Armed with this knowledge he now sets out to trace over reference images in front/side viewport creating box-syndrome Chinese cartoon figures forever.
>Here's the dirty secret Op: a person who's been doing only 3D all his life and become "good" at it but still doesn't know how to draw,
>is missing something very important in not understanding perspective and how lines flow into one another.
Sounds like projection, m'dude. Sounds like you, personally, were too dumb to do anything besides model from orthographic reference before you started drawing and then, upon having to make something original - not through the act of drawing or anything specific like that - realized shapes exist. All the shit you've talked about you can learn without ever straying from 3D. Your argument relies on a massive amount of asspull roughly equivalent to me saying something like "The mighty sculpt-chad is immediately forced to realize three dimensional form while the 2Dcuck, armed with his how to draw animu book, copies 3/4ths left facing anime girls from the book, never understanding form". Just assuming the other guy is going to take the worst possible practice just because they're not enlightened and doing both, and I'm saying this coming from primarily a 2D background.
>Looking at anything before them they don't really understand just what the fuck they're looking at but because they sorta-kindaish-almost do they manage to wing it into the ballpark of correct.
I don't see how you can get a better understanding of the form of things than literally modeling or sculpting all of it in actual 3D space. You can't fuck up knowing what sort of space a thing occupies if you've got to model every dimension of the thing, and this quote applies to 2D art even more because it's even easier to draw shit without knowing the actual form of it when with drawing most of the time you're doing even less work and just vaguely suggesting the form of the thing with lines. Retarded asspull shit.

[Anonymous No.743753]

>>743750
Essentially acting as if 2D is some sort of pressure chamber for understanding form when one of the biggest parts of my work is basically looking over 2D work and reference, a lot of it my own, and trying to translate all the vaguely implied forms into actual 3D space since it turns out it's actually 3D that is the artform where you don't get the luxury of just being able to imply form without properly understanding it. Big shocker.

[Anonymous No.743772]

>>742671
there is some merit in quick sketching techniques/ideation approaches gathered from industrial designers so when you need to pull some idea out of your braincase and store it so that you don't lose; it's just simply faster to scratch five-ten lines silhouette and be done with it
also you stop being dependent on some other dude delivering. and it's fastest to learn.
also you can impress chicks with it. neat.
don't actually learn 2d painting techniques unless you plan to handpaint some textures tho lol

[Anonymous No.744381]

>>743719
are you manic

[Anonymous No.745364]

not really, but it helps

[Anonymous No.745954]

>>742673
No?

[Anonymous No.746721]

>>742673
This is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

[Anonymous No.746740]

>>743645
>is missing something very important in not understanding perspective and how lines flow into one another.
>Looking at anything before them they don't really understand just what the fuck they're looking at
But can't you learn it in 3d form? by looking at reference, real life and drawings, seeing how the shapes create certain lines, why things look like that from this angle and differently from the other angle? can't you learn prespective? why does it have to be in 3d?

[Anonymous No.746760]

>>743719
I know this is a joke, but the shadows on the balls are all wrong

[Anonymous No.746781]

OP, here's a real argument.

Do u need 2D for being a 3D artist?
No.

Do u want to become a professional 3D artist?
Then you need to learn 2D skills.

Think of 2D and 3D like having two arms.
Can u live with a single arm?
Yes

Do u want?
No.

3D will make you a better 2D artist and vice versa.
Learning both will make you better than most guy that focus on just 2D or 3D.

[Anonymous No.746781,2]

>>746781,1
Well, there is some logic in this ...