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/3/ - 3DCG

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672847 No.672847 [Reply] [Original]

what do you wish someone had told you during your first 10 hours of modeling?

this is a first try at a head, so obviously I've got a verrry long ways to go, but I'm having fun and want to get better

i know blender sucks but im super poor

>> No.672850

That you don't do humans till you have fundamentals in anatomy and know form and silhouette. And that you should sculpt organic forms. Anyone telling you to polymodel them is just challenging you. It won't be worth the time.
Pick up proper polymodelling techniques. Make simple props, replicas of shit on your table or whatever. Don't give me that shit about how it's not what you want to do, those are your ABCs and grammar rules of 3DCG. Everyone has to know them. You can leave lighting and rendering and all that for later on, but you have to know how to model, UV unwrap and texture at the very least.
And watch tutorials. Don't waste your time figuring shit out yourself, you'll lose a lot of hours quick.

>> No.672852

>>672847
>what do you wish someone had told you during your first 10 hours of modeling
don't start with edge extruding organics haha

you CAN do humans with hard surface techniques sure but you have to be well versed in the process in the first place, and this is predominantly luxury and not really popular method to use on organics.
you mainly use edge extrude for hard surface and manual retopo WHEN you have organic already done with sculpt.

if you want to jump into characters right on the getgo, you will want to start sculpting(I don't know how to do it in blender since I don't use this app but it should have something good enough, if it's not enough get sculptris)
get yourself a cube or another primitive and shape it in form of head, with a lowest resolution you can get away with.
once you nail it, once you can't push vertices more with your sculpting tools into right places, only then you can add resolution to your mesh.
I would not start with fully fleshed out head itself with all those fatty tissues muscles skins eyes etc too.
start with bare bones: sculpt a skull.

>> No.672853

>>672847
Organic models are done with sculpting first, then retopoing
Hard surface models are done with booleans, then cleaning up

Nothing wrong with poly modeling organics from scratch with zero reference, you're just doing it the (really) hard way.

>> No.672858

>>672847
The amount of time one should be prepared to invest in finishing a model.

I started 3D modeling for one main goal. To make video game assets. I started with making simple objects to help demonstrate my graphic design work for my clients and used that to improve myself with every model. I made it a point to learn something with every new model.

and now here I am. I have made plenty of game ready assets, but I had no idea that once you get a good base going that there would still be stuff like retopology, baking, UV mapping, and optimizing of the retopolgy in the end and even then, I am positive there are further steps I can take to get better end results be it lower poly counts or ways to squeeze in more detail.

>> No.672860
File: 74 KB, 819x407, face_progression.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
672860

>>672850
>>672852
this

I wasted so much time jumping into making animu heads through poly-modelling and that was a huge mistake because I didn't understand how not only basic anatomy worked but barely how to use the software. The result of that is pic related. Also poly-modelling heads is way too time consuming when you can cut that in half by just sculpting a head in zbrush and retopologizing

>>672847
if you want to do characters OP then crack zbrush and start sculpting. I still love blender but don't fall into the mindset of a blendlet

>> No.672880
File: 97 KB, 500x362, 1546739348229.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
672880

>>672852
>>672853
>dont edge extrude organics, sculpt and retopo
Brainlet beginner here. I wish I knew this 2 weeks ago. All the tutorials I found recommended to extrude with ortographic references. But I didn't had any so I thought that having references in the background while edge extruding freely would be enough. It wasn't. I spent an obscene ammount of hours in a really stupidly simple model that even after being 80% done with the rigging I'm still doing major adjustments.

Worst part is that I actually tried to sculpt before starting with all the extrude nonsense but abandoned it because I have no idea how to use the tools properly and the sculpt looked like shit.

Next time I do something like this I will sit down, get some good sculpting guides and make a fuckton of sculpt before starting to not waste hours of my life redoing topology.

>> No.672882

>>672880
>All the tutorials I found recommended to extrude with ortographic references
while it's really good and valid for hard surface props(sometimes... ok 3 out of 4 times you DON'T have orthographic references lol) I'm really not sure where you found these tutorials that suggested this for organic shapes, that's insane misinfo yikes post the links so that we can ostracise them

as for collecting good sculpting tuts, well pavlovich comes into mind, your one stop for all zbrush related IF you can manage his insane talk speed, for a non-native english user like me it was hard sometimes
he has very good introductory series where he gives you just the necessary tools(many guides shell out entire toolset at noobs right on the getgo, you don't need to know ALL tools in fact you will most of the time be using very small amount of brushes at least until you master them) gradually introducing you into more and more complex stuff
(it is expected that you familiarize with these tools by using them directly in your own projects before proceeding)
and even full-blown from vert mush to finished character asset course which is pretty rad in my opinion

all in all, there is only one rule
learn from the best
find artists you like
find what workflow they used if they have any info given about it if they don't, you can even contact them
study it and imitate their work, pick up latest and best industry practices even if you aren't planning on joining industry at all

>> No.672883

>>672882
>I'm really not sure where you found these tutorials that suggested this for organic shapes
Not that anon, but a lot of tutorials that attempt to introduce people to modelling their own characters will push image plane/ortho modelling.

>youtube.com
>"character modelling"
This is just the first result: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QT1GNMevfc
2.4M views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiIoWrOlIRw
1.5M views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spi4lGxnMZg
883k views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAO4C_8y0w8
338k views.

And so on. They're incredibly popular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn0z9yJkR2s
This was pretty high up too, it's thankfully a sculpt.

>> No.672886
File: 24 KB, 330x309, can we fix it.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
672886

>>672883
>2.4m, 1.5m, 883k, 338k
I'm not even mad at this point

>> No.672890

>>672883
Let Blendlets stick to their idiot ways. Better to keep them from competing.

>> No.672895

>>672890
haven't noticed maya misinfo here? it's as problem for *everyone*

>> No.672907

I'm sorry to hijack it, OP, but I have some questions and I don't want to create another thread to shit the board.
Guys, I'm desperate. I need to make some extra money (70 or 80 dollars a month) to pay for water, energy and internet, but the jobs are disappearing where a I live.
If I work hard enough, can I learn enough about Blender until the end of the year to actually make money?
Should I wait until 2.80 is out or start now?

>> No.672922

>>672890
Bit biased, no? Blender's obviously going to be the most popular given that it's free, but the one with 883k views is outright named "Maya bodybuilder CHARACTER MODELING tutorial". And I'm certain you could find a billion more for Maya and maybe even Max without trying.

>> No.672928

>>672907
do web dev instead it's a lot faster to produce good results unironically

>> No.672954

>>672907

Try to be a programmer instead.

It will take you at least three years to actually be employable assuming you do 3D everyday for 14 hours a day.

>> No.673005

>>672847
Ryan quit making threads.

>> No.673021

>>672907
Get a night cleaning job. 2-3 hours a week will net you 75$ easy.

>> No.673028

>>672847
Most of the online professionals are frustrated and will be mean to you as they make shitty money.

Best is to talk to someone personally and ask for a lesson.

As for modelling.
The most important element for me was
"Don't try to make it perfect, just finish it and improve next one"

>> No.673031

>>673028
>finish it
actually pretty important
people tend to forget that unfinished work is a devil, even worse if it is present in a portfolio - it clearly shows that guy can't finish jobs
subpar FINISHED work >>>>>>>> any UNFINISHED work

>> No.673034

>>672847
You never get better, you just become faster. You can't really pull creative talent out of your ass but regardless of that, your first model can be professional tier if you follow tutorials on youtube.

>> No.673038

>>673034
>professional tier
>tutorials on youtube
pick one

>> No.673070

>>673021
No such thing where I live because there aren't any hotel or big company here.
Companies in other towns require people to own a car or a motorcycle and not live too far.

>> No.673152

>>673038
3d modeling is like folding infinite paper for hours and hours, not a lot of skill involved

>> No.673165
File: 23 KB, 397x412, wut_wut.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
673165

get on my level

>> No.673190

>>672860
Anon that looks terrifying

>> No.673195

>>672882
Like the other anon said, there are plenty of tutorials using edge extrude. Not only that, some artist who take illustrations and make 3d models out of them post videos using similar methods. Im assuming that the technique can actually be helpful and speedier than sculpt/retopo in some instances, but they are not as easy as they make it look and a lot can go wrong.

Thanks for the tips anon, I will give it a try and look for some cool artists around. Im just doing this in my spare time, but I would like doing things properly.

>> No.673223
File: 2.06 MB, 600x600, drill.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
673223

>>673190
oh you bet that's why I posted it. Although I used the heads for cel shading so the horrible anatomy isn't nearly as visible. For example this is what I made with the head 2nd farthest to the right. Head looks like shit but the right shaders make it somewhat forgivable

>> No.673228

>>672847
>I'm having fun and want to get better
And that's good because that's how you get better. Make a bunch of crappy models and analyze on what you can do next time or watch a tutorial related to what you are struggling with- if you can't pinpoint on what to work on, you can always post your stuff on polycount or here (don't use reddit because its the biggest hugbox in the world).
Fun is very important in getting gud, build a habit/discipline of making sure you are having at least a bit of fun. There will be times where you want to kill yourself because making good art is difficult and you'll have trouble of feeling that 'fun' again; so be sure to analyze your insights on how and why you feel fun. You don't have to be a genius or write an essay, writing 1 line of note is better than nothing.

>> No.673477

>>672847
It's shit.

>> No.673481

How do I learn form and anatomy and perspective? Do I need to head on over to /ic/? Do I need to learn to draw first?

>> No.673482

>>672847
that you should stop trying to use blender and use your gmail to get a student license for 3ds max from Autodesk.
they release a new version every year so you can be a student forever.

>> No.673941

>>672847
>what do you wish someone had told you during your first 10 hours of modeling?
the right (x,y,z) locations that my vertices should be at

>> No.673953

>>673223
that really needs an outline

>> No.673971
File: 219 KB, 1733x612, drill_shader.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
673971

>>673953
i've tried it before but it doesn't look as good imo

>> No.673979

>>673971
I can see why you'd prefer it without the outline, but I think it's necessary when the character appears against an environment.

>> No.674003

>>673971
I agree
>>673979
outlines are a crutch for poor composition and colors

>> No.674032
File: 198 KB, 1300x702, spirited-away-ghibli-miyazaki-15th-15-year-anniversary-best-animation-hannah-ewens-1468933340.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
674032

>>674003
"Outlines are a crutch for poor composition and colors," he said, people looking at him in disbelief.

>> No.674034

>>674032
how did they get the 3D models to look like that? any links with a breakdown on the shaders they used?

>> No.674037

>>674034
lol

>> No.674044

The whole learn anatomy argument is bullshit. You know why? Because everything you model has a form of anatomy to it.

Do you honestly think someone who models a spider for a video game buys a book on arachnid anatomy and learns the Latin terminology of all the body parts and musculature system before they attempt to model one? Imagine this scenario of wanting to model an orc but not having an anatomy book on orcs. Too bad, can't model an orc.

Do I need to know how to be an auto mechanic to model a car?

It's a stupid fucking argument. If you want to model people you are welcome to try, just know that it isn't easy and you will get frustrated. It's better to get good at modeling low hanging fruit first. Learn to model simpler object and work your way up to harder ones. Do the same for animation of objects. Start simple then learn harder stuff. It also depends on what animation you need to achieve. DOA bobs and vagene? Probably a lot easier than Train Your Dragon Box Office Films

>> No.674047

>>674044
A heavyset muscled orc isn't going to look that different from a man of the same description. Its much easier to pick up an anatomy book and educate yourself instead of modeling desks and chairs waiting until the Model Fairy visits to bless you with knowledge of modelling humans. Your post comes off as a lot of cope and seethe.

>> No.674048

>>674044
weak ass bait lol interested to see who falls for this though

>> No.674070

>>674044
This but unironically.

>> No.674090

>>672847
>what do you wish someone had told you during your first 10 hours of modeling
Proper Edge Flow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xls25e08sSg&t=317s

>> No.674294

>>672860
Are those not good? The 3rd face
From the right looks perfect. Im currently doing my first 3d anime character in blender and the tutorials tend to look just like yours

>> No.674301

>>674294
The heads I posted are pretty bad anon. When I did these I had no idea about edge flow or anatomy. Even for 3D animu girls knowing how the topology should look and basic human anatomy is really important for it to not look like shit and cause problems.

If you want to make cute anime girls I highly recommend you learn to sculpt them and then retopo. I manually extruded verts in a wireframe then slowly filled in faces which takes significantly longer than if you were to just sculpt it.

>> No.675073
File: 21 KB, 287x274, 1553310009956.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
675073

>>674301
Not that anon, but what EXACTLY is bad about them?

Running into this issue of "No, that's wrong" but I'm not sure what's wrong about it? I don't wanna be the 2 weeks in guy who just found out everything he did is fucked, but I can't avoid a problem I can't spot.

>> No.675084

Blender add ons "F2" and "Loop Tools"

Are a godsend for retopology.

They speed up the process so much.

>> No.675114

>>675073
I am also not that anon but there also doesnt seem to be anything wrong with them to me. They say don’t extrude but im studying this in college with an industry worker teaching and he is teaching us extruding for human models too

I feel like everything /3/ says is wrong

>> No.675119

>>675073
Not that anon.

However. The image says Progression. So maybe Left is the most outdated and the right is the most up to date one.

From the first model(from left to right)
above the lip there is janky topo.

The next over, above the eyebrow is a poll, and Below the chin is very dense for no reason.

Then the ones over that the topology is alright.

however. Visually, they're mostly unpleasant visually. But the last being the most potential. But still being unpleasant.

SO, in the end. they're not... Bad but they
certainly can be improved.

>> No.675127

>>674047
U got a problem with modeling desks and chairs bro?

>> No.675630
File: 45 KB, 823x518, wip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
675630

>>675073
i'm just unhappy with the end result of them except for the last one I made on the right. Maybe that's because i'm too negative towards myself but there are just a lot of small things I would tweak if I went back and fixed them anatomically wise.

>>675114
If that's what your teacher says I would take their advice over something a stranger posted on a cantonese oil painting image board

>>675119
yea it's my character progression from left being my very first attempt to my sixth on the right. Thanks for the feedback i'm very aware a lot of them are unpleasant to look at. I'm trying to make someone with the head on the right in my original head picture so keep an eye out in /wip/

>> No.675808

>>672882
>full-blown from vert mush to finished character asset course
Can't find this. Is his name vertmush or full-blown?

>> No.675810

>>675808
Not sure if serious or memeing.

>> No.675811

>>675810
>Not sure if serious or memeing.
Oh are they programs or tools? Just started learning sorry.

>> No.675817

>>675630
You are improving tho, Good job.

>> No.675836

>>672882
>as for collecting good sculpting tuts, well pavlovich comes into mind, your one stop for all zbrush related IF you can manage his insane talk speed
I don't know why people say this. He talks normal speed, everyone else talks slow as molasses.

>> No.675845

>>675836
>I don't know why people say this.
Bear in mind that a quarter of the population is 90 IQ or less.

>> No.675958

>>674034
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGjCzxJV3E