/3/ - 3DCG

from what i'm seeing it's

1)make a shape
2)place contours
3)place centerline
4)elevate
5)subdivide

is this sensible?

but then there's this which confuses me

This guys work is inspiring. Real quality Subd work is rare these days on characters. As for it's feasibility look at his rigs and tell me what you think.
>>653909
What makes this guys work so successful in it's appeal is that he works from the profile of the form out. Ensuring that profile reads clearly and communicates his intent before going into anything else lays a solid foundation for the rest of the model. I'm not sure what confuses you about this image. If you study classical figure drawing you are taught to visualize the cross sections of the form, that is all that is going on here.

>>653913
but how do you decide where to bisect the contours? or how to draw out the profile in terms of vertex distribution? he has the foot profile then adds planes and merges them i assume, but i have no clue where to plant such things. furthermore he has muscular detailing. how can you commit to that many loops and have it work well topologically still for rigging? it's mind boggling. i wanna approach this the same way but i'm worried i won't properly distribute my edges for the top of the foot or bicep, or abs, the illiac spine, and other important areas. even if i look at them i feel a need to approach it from different angles but this is all a strict vertex weld between the profile and various planes or vertices that he adds later on like this.

https://www.rig-it.net/blog/maya-advanced-rigging-deformation-tutorial/

i'm planning to get this to learn the rigging methods he used, but i have no clue how to approach the modelling.

>>653952
furthermore, how the hell did he light this?

>>653952
>>653913
>>653909
>>653905
This is what a pro looks like. No dogma, no BS, just R&D and results.

>>653909
What a strange workflow.

>>653913
>>653952
>>653958
This is basic fucking shit people, stuff that you are already supposed to know if you wanted to make characters in the first place.
Not just that, it adds an unnecessary level of complexity, like trying to draw with both hands tied behind your back, just to add a little challenge.
>hurr durr silhouette is crucial
No fucking shit, Sherlock.
What's next? Make sure your primary forms are well defined before delving into the secondary ones?
You gotta know your anatomy if you want to make characters?
God, it's like I'm watching cavemen watching in awe as someone makes fire by rubbing two sticks together. Except it's 2018 and lighters are a thing.

>>653970
Oh enlightened master please tell us more!
Get over yourself. This work is interesting because people don't often do polygon/subd characters anymore, and when they do it's never to this fidelity. And this guy rigs his work proving the unorthodox topology works just fine. If you don't find it interesting, fine, move on and find somewhere else to fling your bitter bull shit.

>>653973
>reading comprehension
I even used a simple metaphor so your babby brain could understand it.

>because people don't often do polygon/subd characters anymore
Because, like rubbing sticks together to make fire instead of buying a match box, it's unnecessarily complex and laborious.
>And this guy rigs his work proving the unorthodox topology works just fine.
Any topology can be rigged and will work.
But again, will any non-overly autistic rigger (a bit of an oxymoron, I know, but still) shove the entire computer tower down my throat if I give him that kind of topology to paint weights on? Fucking hell yes he will.
He's not climbing a yet to be challenged mountain, he's climbing a mountain which has a fucking high speed train tunnel and a highway dug through, just to make his life harder for the hell of it.
And you still eat it up like it's some revolutionary workflow.

>>653979
I understood you just fine. I just disagree with you. So show us the rigged and textured characters you did yourself if this guys work is so unimpressive and he is a climbing a mountain he could just take a train through, show us the benefit of that train ride. If you can't finish a character to at least the level of what we are discussing here I am not interested in your opinions as they are worthless.

>But again, will any non-overly autistic rigger (a bit of an oxymoron, I know, but still) shove the entire computer tower down my throat if I give him that kind of topology to paint weights on? Fucking hell yes he will.
He rigs them himself he can do whatever he wants. His rigs look good too. So please show us your superior characters and rigs that you did yourself.

>And you still eat it up like it's some revolutionary workflow.
Evolutionary, not revolutionary. Subd character modeling has mostly been abandoned and this guy is rocking it. He goes further than the endless crowds of Zbrush cowboys getting his stuff rigged to a proper level to support the modeling. If you are interested in doing more than just digital still life on your own this guys work is interesting. If you don't find interesting good for you, now go spend your time on something you do find interesting.

>>653913
>Greasepencil
>Truly revolutionary shit

>>653982
>if you don't show something better your opinion doesn't count
Aaaaand dropped.
Ignoring the fact that I'm not keen on getting doxxed on 4chinz by posting work tied to my real identity, even if by all rules and standards, my work was without a shadow of a doubt objectively superior, the one in charge of judging it as such in this instance would be you, and you only. And we both know that with this last post, you just told the world that you would pretend to not be wrong rather than admit so, out of spite.

The discussion is over.
It was never really gonna go anywhere good in the first place.

>>653990
you started off saying this is basic shit. if you have nothing to prove this then you're either below basic or your claim is false. either way you're spouting nonsense, so the argument was never in your favor.

>>653970

>>653990
>>if you don't show something better your opinion doesn't count

I didn't say better, I said at least as good as. Work on that reading comprehension anon.
I am looking for an approach to 3d that is high quality and viable for solo artists. If your work is on the same level, or hell even close, I would be interested in what you have to say. If you are going to rip on a technique that is clearly working you need to back it up with evidence if you want to be taken seriously.

>The discussion is over.
>It was never really gonna go anywhere good in the first place.

That's your fault. Maybe don't come into thread insulting the participants and spewing garbage next time. If you have a contrarian point of view there are far better ways to make your case. Don't take it as a personal slight if people want to see proof of what you're talking about. However, if after all your shit talk you have nothing concrete to contribute, by all means tuck your tail and run.

>>653952
This looks gross and unappealing. It's like awful capeshit art that tries to be realistic by adding an absurd amount of anatomical detail. But it also tries to be stylistic and sexy, so the bodily proportions are exaggerated in a way that does not look good with the anatomy.

>>653990
Fuck off retard.

>>653970
Link to your ArtStation or portfolio, now. Then you may speak.

>>654004
>t. mobile game asset slave

>>653952
>>654004
And I forgot to add, that tutorial probably doesn't use his method. He seems to purely use bones and weights while the tut goes over Maya's muscle tools and corrective shapes. As for modelling, from the looks of the topology, he mostly likely box modeled a base and used some sort of tessellation sculpting for the weird- looking details.

>>654011
What?

>>653905
This is /3/ where the general populace thinks that the best way to achieve anything is to sculpt it. There are people here who sculpt their edge bevels in hard surface because they exclusively use sculpting software.

There are people here who would rationalize a cube with smoothed edges being fucking 40k poly, then they would spend two days taking it down to something reasonable for use. I can almost guarantee someone here has tried to sculpt one primitive into another primitive.

This really doesn't have much to do with your post, but its on topic I'm just venting and its related.

Man, someone really loves sakuramochi don't they.
I always have to wonder: what's the point of doing this? Like I get that it's fuckin' impressive to be able to purely polymodel all this shit, I'm in awe here. But I just don't see any advantage of this over just sculpting things. It just feels like unnecessary complication and an act of showing off just because you can.
His rigging's pretty damn impressive though, that I really admire.

>>653954
Front key coming from the top, front fill coming from the bottom, two rims. It's pretty simple lighting, anon.

>>653970
>idiots falling for "DID YOU KNOW I AM IN THE INDUSTRY" poster once again
They're the equivalent to bait posters on /3/. Just ignore them next time, honestly.

>>654004
I sorta agree with this. It's really excessive detail, almost feels like those sculptors that overload all the serratus anteriors along the rib cage because "he pump many muskels". Then again some art of Cammy has shown her stupidly muscular, so I guess he was trying to stay faithful to the source?

>>654016
Not necessarily the best, but it sure is the easiest. But Zbrush purists are the worst, I agree.

>>654004
Yeah that one is a little muscular and 'hard' in feel but it's Cami from street fighter. He's got others that are much more feminine.

>>654013
not really 'box' modeling.
>>654017
>I always have to wonder: what's the point of doing this?
Fucking tired of Zbrush and sculpting in general. I am skeptical that it is the best method for solo artists who wish to animate their own characters. Zbrush has so many little quirks and hiccups that I am tired of dealing with. I would rather experience a different set of hiccups and quirks for a little bit and learn something new.

>>653970
>hurr it's trivial durr!!
You aren't disguising your ignorance or lack of talent, sorry. Here's your (You), I hope it's a comfort to you as it's the only meaningful interaction a person like you can ever hope to achieve.

>>653905
This is what happens when you realize that sculpting is a meme and the only thing it's good at is making making alien heads.

>>654016
I once booled a cube into a perfect sphere for the fun of it.

>>653952
Don't overthink it. I tried following his approach and I found myself thinking too much about classical topology concerns, and not about form. It turned out a mess. I am going to try again think only about form and not topology, I am only going to go back and fix topology after I subdivide and see how it looks. I think there is a certain amount of not giving a shit in this guys technique that makes it work.

>>654028

t. talentless cunt with no artistic skill who blames his failure on sculpting. Enjoy pushing your verts around.

>>654028

Every game and movie studios sculpt creatures and characters. Why would they do this if it's just a meme? You just don't have any artistic abilities. Why don't you consider a carreer change?

>>654016

Do you realize there are also proper artists who know when to sculpt and when not to? You cunts are always using both extremes.

>>654028
a bad workman blames his tools

>>654016
first thing a traditional sculptor does with new material is basic shape

>>654700
is it possible to get a similar result like this if i zbrush sculpt then zremesh it to make it riggable?

>>654754
A lot of what this kind of modeling work is the way this guy exploits polygons and subd's. He does things that were/are considered 'taboo'. Using Zremesher you give up all that control. It's a quick way to get a usuable mesh for rigging though, even if it makes wasteful decisions about topology. If all you are after is the rigging results then by all means go for it, get there as fast as you can!

>>654719
Yes anon. Notice how I didn't say every person who uses sculpting software is a complete moron? I'm joking about how so many people who are either new to 3d or exclusively use sculpting software and think the best way to do anything is sculpt are on this board.

>>654024
> Most well understood technique, easiest to teach and learn, easiest to translate skills from other artistic media
> "Not the best method for solo artists"
Go ahead anon. Nobody ever is going to want to collaborate with you on your furry porn game, so so might as well teach yourself some weird ass techniques nobody else is doing.


>>654756
Zremesher is extreme shit tier for rigging. At a minimum you have to retopo hands and face manually, period.

>>653952
>tfw she will never sit on your face

>>653909
I don't know why this image makes me laugh so much

>>654054
That's unironically good practice for a beginner.

And you guys wonder why this board moves so slowly. Sucks that there aren't that many good forums for 3D shit.

He said he only does this for fun and uses zbrush in his job

>>655557
So he doesn't find Zbrush fun in his off time. Can't say I blame him there.

>>655588
Why though? Isn't zbrush more liberating?

>>655591
If all you want to do is make models or stay in Zbrush, sure it's great. Dealing with Zbrush data further down the pipeline is anything but liberating. I've worked at places where there are people whose only job is to clean up the mess Zbrush makes so that the sculptors can keep sculpting. The sculpters are happy, but the TA's dealing with their data are anything but. I certainly wouldn't say they are 'liberated'.

>>655594
You mean like topogun zremesh and quad draw? I've been meaning to learn topogun. Is it worthwhile over. The other tools? Same with uvlayout.

>>655596
topogun is abandoned, go with anything else

>>655597
Wtf why? I thought it had the best tools for quick creature topology.

>>655601
development and support stopped years ago, It was unrivaled like 6 years ago, now I just don't see the point of it.

what's the best workflow for this type of modeling? is there any documentation or tutorials that go over making high poly characters like this comfortably and efficiently?

>>657064
Go through the guys Twitter history, plenty of media to help along with ideas on the guys workflow. Nothing special thing, poly modeling with a nice style.

>>653905
>>653973
>>653998
>>654009
>>654025

Go back to /v/, guys, really. The model is so fucking tacky.
I don't give a fuck if you don't want heavy models bogging down your games and dipping 2 fps, if you want more boobs on them or if, on the other hand, you want more realistic designs. I just want 3d art to do interesting, new things.
Look at this, and pay attention. THIS IS BEAUTIFUL, THIS IS INNOVATIVE. And it's a mess, and it's dead because most 3d artists are autistic cavemen like you who only reference other concept artists instead of real artists' work and real life.
You're the reazon nobody takes concept art and videogames as a serious medium for expression. You're the reason why we can't have nice things.

>>657064
There is no tutorial. This guys work is an evolution of traditional polygon modeling techniques. Starting there isn't a bad idea if you don't have an understanding of how to work with polygons and subd's.
I've studied his twitter a good amount and taken a couple of shots at this method, and I noticed a couple big things that I was doing wrong.
1. I didn't break the initial silhouette into enough pieces.
2. I didn't utilize the 3d space of the silhouette well enough for the legs, arms, tits and ass. Treat the silhouette like a 3d gesture drawing.
3. I got too worried about 'clean' topology. Open Subdivision surface is much for forgiving of tris and n-sided polygons. This kept me from making the big cuts into the geometry I needed to get the right forms.

>>657074
what do you mean by open subdivision surface?

>>657076
https://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/docs/intro.html
It's the original Subdivision surface that Pixar developed and patented. All other subdivision surfaces were knock offs designed to not infringe on Pixars patent. Pixars subdivision surfaces were released as open source a few years ago and are now found in every major package, except Zbrush (that may have changed). One of the really great things about them is you can count on your model looking the same as it moves through the pipeline as everyone now uses the same subdivision surface algorithm. Except Zbrush.

>>657074
>>657076

Do you know why there's no tutorials? Because nobody would give a shit about his autism, and he knows it. He's got nothing of note to bring to the table.

Someone here has quite the obsession japanese twitter guy, huh? The dude's modelling is really nothing special and he isn't playing 5D checkers with his topology. Unless you want to make stuff like the ugly Street Fighter musclegirl shit, you can achieve the same results with normal topology. He's already made several images where he models hands, feet, and faces with like how you usually see them done.
However, I do love his rigging skills. THAT I want a tutorial on.

>>657090
*obsession with

>>657090
salty

>>657093
I don't see what what there is to be salty about. Just pointing out how some dude, or (You), is blowing this guy's modelling method out of proportion like it's a big mystery. Especially when he shows his process and it's just like how anyone would model. The Cammy model is a notable exception where the topology is weird.

>>653905
video or it didn't happen

>>657080
>Except Zbrush.
And Blender, which doesn't implement OpenSubdiv Loop algorithm.

>>653905
>still better than 95% of /3/ users

>>657090
>However, I do love his rigging skills. THAT I want a tutorial on.
It's really funny reading your whole post shrugging off his mediocre modelling skills and then finish it off by doing a 180 on his even less impressive rigging "skills".
Fucking amazing how obliviously retarded people can look like at times.

>>657138
Care to show your rigging work?

>>657138
seething

>>653909
the end result is surely nice looking but that topology has my soul screaming

although i lean on the quads only autism i don't wanna bash the triangles but you can't tell me leaving those surely nonplanar ngons like that is fine

>>657209
Look at his rigs and judge the quality of the model in motion. If it looks good and deforms well, what does it matter what the topology looks like? Most everybody here is focusing on one of two things instead of the work as a whole. If the model looks great and deforms great, yet the topology breaks all the 'rules' maybe it's time for the 'rules' to be re-evaluated?

>>657090
>? The dude's modelling is really nothing special

if that were the case wouldn't there be more people capable of this type of result without zbrush? otherwise it is pretty special.

>>657229
it might rig well but my other concern would be shading, an ngon is very liable to shading concerns afaik
also i wish it was that simple but you gotta think about what the workflow implies for other things like doing clothing

like, how the fuck are you going to make a shoe for that foot? you're gonna have to make it from the ground up because you can't just copy the faces and offset them like you would with a clean geometry, same with pants and jackets

>>657229
no because the existing standardized workflow is the most efficient in production because time is money.

As a solo artist you're allowed to use whatever method you like, but if you're in a studio you must deliver your work in a format that other people can work with as easily as possible

>>657344
He has renders of his characters, and he has clothing and shoes as well. Make sure to check them out.

>>657351
Productions are just as fallable as the people working on them. If you are in a studio you do as you are told, that doesn't mean it's the right way, the best way or anything else. It's just the way things are. My concern isn't studios anyway, I don't have teams of specialists working in parallel.

>>657281
Just because people don't use more traditional methods as much as they used to due to more efficient software doesn't make it special. We get it, you don't like sculpting and retopology.

Half of 3d doesn't understand box modeling.

This is a manual transmission vs automatic transmission analogy.

>>653905
judging by his twitter timeline, this guy got good really fast. almost comical since most of the plebs here dicking around for years with this stuff, going objectively nowhere.

>>657414
pretty cool, my only point is just that in a pipeline he is probably going to be LOATHED by everybody and forced to do things in another way, that's why it's not practical, but if he's a freelancer and does his own thing then cool, kudos to him

>>657416
how is it more efficient to make two sets of geometry vs one? why go through the process of sculpting only to retopo if you know how to get the retopo'd result with box modeling? that seems way more inefficient. what happens if you want to redesign the mesh? do you make a whole new sculpt and retopo each time?

>>657110
i thought it was added with 2.8, or was soon to come?

>>657435
I agree. When you become an employee you lose a lot of control. You give up control of what you make and how you make it in exchange for money.

>>657436
Zbrush's solution is to throw more polygons at everything. It isn't efficient. Zbrush is really fast at destructively building up form, ignoring everything else in the process. That speed in form development is not efficiency

Imagine being such pathetically fucking virgin ass nerds that you make a thread only to find excuses to suck the dick of some random guy on Twitter and pretend his autistically stupid workflow and unimpressive results are actually revolutionary because you failed 3rd grade maths and art classes.
Jesus if this guy was a Mexican making tuned cars instead of a jap making yet more jap girls in 3d, you'd shit all over him.
God, you people make me sick.

>>657668
>being this assblasted

>>657439
It was, that guy Paolo or Pablo said in the feature video.

>>657681
It's cognitive dissonance. The idea of high quality character modeling without Zbrush/sculpting is apparently very unsettling to some anons.

>>657668
Imagine projecting this much. You probably couldn't even box model a single organic shape let alone a character.

Wonder why absolutely nobody here, be it the ones shitting on random twitter artist or kissing his ass, posted their own work.

>>657706
Working on 3d is hard. Even making something shotty takes a long time and most people here are too insecure to post their work. That and nobody here could achieve that result with just polyextrude. This require knowledge of anatomy, polyediting tools, topology, but more than all that, the DILIGENCE to finish a large scale project such as a clothed figure that could be rigged well even with tris or ngons. Nobody posting on 4channel is gonna have all of those.

>>657708
Basically this. You guys can talk like you know shit but have nothing to show for it. And when someone does, you bet your ass they'll get shat on.

>>657708
>Working on 3d is hard. Even making something shotty takes a long time and most people...
... would rather use the time they have invested in their work to land jobs and not have it permanently associated with ranting about the dumb underage fangirls of some gook on twitter on 4channel.
>That and nobody here could achieve that result with just polyextrude.
The core issue is that all you idiots keep believing this is impressive in any way.
The only way this is impressive is how unnecessarily time-wasting it is and the deep-rooted autism required to put up with it.
Again, the only reason you all have this raging boner for him is that he's a jap making jap girls, which don't look like the usual /3/ abominations (which is not an impressive feat at all)

>>657724
Post something you think is more worthwhile then. This is a free country bud.

>>657724
>muh jobs

Lol. That gook has a job too and still manages to make this stuff. What's your excuse?

>>657724
If you think this is so unimpressive please show something finished to the same level that is impressive. Solo artist work only.

>>657726
He's not posting it on /3/, though. I doubt he would even if he were lurking here.

>>657724
Why the fuck is this guy getting so much attention? Literally go to artstation, refresh the front page and there are dozens of superior artists.

>>657791
Because /3/ apparently can't believe "this is all made with just polymodelling technique without any sculpting at all??!?!" and as you expect that jumpstarts a lot of arguments.
Also some anon on this board has a superboner for sakuramochi (artist behind that).

>>657791
>>657792

The bigger issue here is you retards shitting up the thread with your autism.

Durrr why do people like art and appreciate its merits. Duurrrrr that guy is a retard hes doing it out for pure fun, HES NOT OPTIMISING FOR MASS APPEAL AND PROJECT EFFICIENCY!

DURRRRR Rrrrrrreeeeeeeeerrr!!!!!

>>653905
/3/ fell hard for the sculpt & topology dogma and this guy practically shits all over it. He's a true 3D punk.

>>657791
I did just as you suggested. Lots of work that is very good in it's own right. However when it comes to finished, rigged, ready to animate character models made by a single artist. Art Station is a little light on that kind of content. In fact I didn't see any at all, let alone 'dozens'.
If you are aware of any artists that can properly rig for the level of detail they model at please share them.

>>657791
Show your artwork or STFU

>>657823
>"Show your artwork or STFU"
Ah, the good old retard's counterargument.

>>657825
I'm waiting

>>657828
You are going to be waiting awhile. The thing I have noticed about the anons coming in to shit up this thread is they are so inexperienced they can't understand what is in front of them, then they get surprised and offended when you ask them for proof that this work isn't special.
The fact of the matter is character modelers who can also rig to the same level as their models are damn near non existent. That alone makes Sakuramochi's work special. If you can't see that you are either retarded or so fucking new 3d you might as well be retarded.

>>657829
Good lord, dude, stop acting like he's the fuckin' second coming of Christ. I get that you're a raging homosexual but please don't do such indecent acts in public.

This thread is getting nowhere now.

>>657830
No ones saying that hes the second coming of christ, but its nice to see modelers also rig and animate their models.

But the truth is that youre in a mostly japanese culture forum with people who like to consume japanese culture and this guy is a japanese artist making 3d art that people like.
Weird huh?

If you cant get that then go fuck yourself off to reddit.

>>657820
>If you are aware of any artists that can properly rig for the level of detail they model at please share them.
That explains why I'm so unimpressed.
I was HIRED because of that very reason.
No, on top of it, I also animate my characters.
And funnily enough, my work is not on artstation yet.

>>657829
Man, Where's my fucking thread where you all suck my cock?
Oh right, even if you weren't so mad at me for dissing your stupid gook artist, I couldn't post my work because it violates global rule 3 :^)
And you'd ignore it because it doesn't fit your fetish for jap girls.
Don't waste more time trying to get me to doxx myself. I ain't gonna do that just to prove the fangirl of some weeb fucker on /3/ wrong. Unlike you, I'm not so petty.

Both sides are retarded.

It is extremely impressive and a major eye opener to some people who think the only way to model is to sculpt to get complicated results, but also "post your work" is retarded and not an argument

>>657832
You know what, anon. I was going to give you a proper response, but what the fuck is this thread anymore. You've got fuckers drowning in Dunning-Kruger, people pulling in some obtuse argument that "you only like it because it's anime!!!", others just constantly dick-sucking fuck knows, this thread's off the rails. Both sides are delusional at this point, good lord.

>>657835
>And funnily enough, my work is not on artstation yet.
You post your own work there, idiot.

Well, I guess if I ever want to derail a thread on /3/ the next time I don't have to rely on the >blendlet >autocuck shtick anymore. I can just go "HEH WHO NEEDS SCULPTING WHEN YOU CAN POLYMODEL" and watch hell shit itself.

>>657835
>No, on top of it, I also animate my characters.
>And funnily enough, my work is not on artstation yet.
Anywhere I can see your work? I am very interested in what solo artists are doing.

the /3/ virgin VS the Jap Chad

>>657842
This. i've never seen someone so triggererd by another person's skill kek.

>>657835
We are all anonymous here. You could post your work, or links to it without taking credit for it and add something to the discussion. You didn't do that though because you don't have anything except bullshit stories about a life you wish you had.

>>657849

He won't I guarantee it. This is exactly the kind of shit that happens on /ic/ for years:
>someone posts something
>guy posts this seething angry post that is thinly veiled as "critique"
>when people question or ask evidence to back up their claims, they bitch out and say they can't or wont but still maintain its everyone and the original post is wrong
>says the discussion is over and/or posts things like "virgin", "nerds" and other furious replies
>still claims that they are better than everyone and has the moral highground and how skilled and employed by the best but somehow doesn't have the tiniest scrap or piece of non-nda art or even a WIP that hasn't been shown at all

>>657856
Nobody wants to be associated with /3/ IRL.

>>657869
100% this. Anything that is going near my portfolio I am not going to place on /3/

Can you fucking imagine?
>employer right clicks on image
>search google for image to make sure its yours and not stolen
>only result is an archive of /3/ with someone posting that and also calling someone else a faggot

>>657871
just don't post the same image as the image in your portfolio

>>657869
>>657871
1. Don't upload it to /3/ use a link instead.
2. Don't claim it as yours when you post a link to it on /3/
3. failing that just shut the fuck up if you don't have anything substantial to contribute the discussion. You don't need to post work you personally did to contribute, but you do need to provide something that illustrates your point.

>>657837
This is the thing that gets me about this thread. What the hell is it with you guys whining about sculpting? Nobody's shitting on him because he doesn't sculpt. Just the guys who are shitting on people who do, like that makes the final product inferior or something. If you want to use traditional methods, go ahead, just don't pretend it'll make your work look better. Mochi's work is as good as it is because he has skills, if he were to sculpt his shit he would have the same results. I don't think I can say the same about anyone in this thread.

>>657904
>Nobody's shitting on him because he doesn't sculpt.

have you even been reading the thread? half of it is some autist saying that this is a waste of time because he didn't sculpt and retopo.

is there not a particular universal method for 3d modeling characters without orthos? that seems really fucked up considering sculpting is fairly young in comparison to CG as a whole. i get how this guy utilized contours but it still bugs me that this isn't the norm, since there are a ton of modeling shortcuts to merging such contours together.

>>658481
Skilled poly artists spend very little time in orthographic views.
You need to move around the mesh in perspective and try to capture the concept from any angle.
Reason is you need the same exact same brain functions as a skilled sculptor to model something well.
Main difference is you trade speed for accuracy in opting to push carefully thought out vertices instead of these impressionistic masses of them.

Discounting initial familiarity with the tools it is highly unusual to find a good sculptor that doesn't a good modeller and vice versa.

I've never used this front/side plane BS when working on a real project, cept for the initial stages of modelling things like real-world cars.
It seems to be this naive idea of how to go about this that almost everyone attempts at first, I sure did way back in them 90's.

There is so much information missing from orthograpic projections that you typically end up with this kinda horror >>653909 should you try.
Once you have the skills to fill in those blanks from non-orthograpic references you no longer need the crutch of some image plane to draw on-top of.

>>658486
but how do you obtain those skills? where do you start from? low poly to high poly character stuff?

>>658486
This except when modeling anything math related in hard surface or where accuracy is more important than interpretation.
Think sculpting a figure from concept art vs building a scale model in a sense

>>658492
Pushing polygons, sculpting shapes, drawing real world objects.

Basically anything that forces you to pay careful attention to angles, curvature and aspect ratios.
Train your eye to notice if something is off and by how much.

Look for visual cues like the length of some feature on your subject and see how it's ratio stacks up against other features, correct and repeat til you can't find any errors.
At first you might be able to tell if something is an inch off , 10's of degrees here and there, but with years of practice you will be within millimeters and single degrees.

When you look at a curved feature or angle think not only of the curve as it exists on the object,
but think also in terms of the negative space between the features and it doubles your eyeball accuracy right there.

Reason you need to do it by eye is because this allows you to look at something from any angle and make many many informed edits and corrections
in the same time it would take you to try and actually measure it. It's also what makes you productive and able to enjoy the process never getting stuck.

Listen and look to other skilled artists demo'ing their work and you'll pick up what works for you over time.
The more skilled you get the faster you can access and make use of new information since you'll be a ever more finely tuned instrument.

Whenever in doubt just throw something out there and keep correcting it til it starts to look right.
But don't fall into the trap of trying to polish a turd, If it doesn't work don't try to save what you already have but tear it down and rebuild, because only big edits will make big differences.

>>658486
I have a question, would you say the OP image and that foot image is the work of a skilled poly artist? I wouldn't honestly know, but judging by your words and the plane-based workflow of those images you don't think it is, right?

>>658492
Learn to accurate draw turn around of characters. If you can produce accurate model sheets you can model accurate characters.

>>658497
I see. I've been darwing mostly for a while now although i started off trying to focus on 3d sculpting because i was helping a friend make assets for a project and thought it would speed up designing things, but i realized i really suck at utilizing primitives and doing contours via negative and positive space perception.

i then simplified a lot of my thinking and ended up simply drawing various organic shapes and their respective center lines, and in turn their contours, but i then stopped doing that and started just drawing spheres with offset tapering to mimic regions where they'd connect.

overall i just don't know how i'd implement this to 3d because i want to sculpt to design, but i want to mesh edit so that i can get a good topology from the get go.

my visual cues for getting things well proportioned is still lacking but i've been mentally working on different angles to try and fix that, but it's only been with various curves for spheres or cylinders combined to be semi organic if that makes sense.

>>658502
I see. that's pretty tough for me because i can't into perspective that well on paper. like in terms of rotation and how things vanish properly instead of being exaggerated. i've mostly been freehanding.

man this is starting to just become a drawing advice thing lmao. i guess it is gonna be crucial no matte what.

i guess i was looking for some sort of step by step for poly-modeling outside of just taking a cube and going into orrthographic view. that's all i've learned atm for doing a head model for example, and that's without image planes.

that's simply to mesh edit free-handed. it just feels clunky compared to having a more ideal contour to begin with like this artist does.

>>658507
That struggle with perspective should tell you everything about what you need to learn. The point in learning to draw the same subject, consistently from multiple angles is to teach you how to fully visualize form and space. Once you can do this it really won't matter what tool you use, you will be able to get results anywhere.

If starting with a box feels clunky (it is) listen to your instincts and start with another method, like drawing out the polygons in the exact silhouettes you need. Trust yourself anon you probably know more than you give yourself credit for.

>>658507
Hi,

In my own experience the easiest way to have a good 3D career in sculpting is to erase you higher brain functions. You need to draw and sculpt everything as it _is_, not as it means. Remove your higher brain functions. Pattern processing, conscientious thinking, it's all unnecessary. You need to see the world as the most basic idea imaginable. As it appears to be, not as it is.

There is a reason why the best artists are leftists. You need to remove the part of your brain that is thinking. Don't think, feel. Maths and higher thinking are wrong. See, feel, that's what you see.

>>658507
A shortcut to learn how to draw, and by extension how to model/sculpt is to grow very patient, take your time and attempt to depict something as it actually exist
without you imposing any of your own simplifications into the shape. Naturally you are gonna suck at first and it's gonna be slow and annoying.
But persist and it'll 'click' and you'll grow to be able to hold shapes as they actually exist in your mind.

You do this for a hundred hours and you'll learn more than you will in a thousand doodling away at simplified geometry you dream up to approximate shapes you see.

Even if you have no interest at all in drawing highly realistic depictions of stuff possessing the ability to do so will unlock wizard tier abilities you can use elsewhere.
There are no shortcut past putting in endless hours to get good, but there are shortcuts to pick up key stuff in hundreds of hours rather than thousands of hours.

>>658501
Op's image looks like art made by someone I'd deem fairly competent.
The foot image workflow looks like something one might invent during ones ~2nd week in 3D if left to ones own devices.

If it's the work of the same person I'm willing to wager dude fell down a flight of stairs between making the upper and lower body.

>>653905
Anyone can do mesh. But can you rig it so it can do deep crouch and spread legs without deforming ass and do nazi salute without wrecking shoulder?

>>658625
Obviously he can you buttblasted mutt

>>658625
Those are... interesting benchmarks for a rig's quality, I say.

>>658625
polygons were a mistake
skin over physically simulated muscle deformations on mesh bones is the one true way

>>659420
NURBS or bust

>>659420
How 2 do this in Blender? Serious

>>659425
There is an add-on, X-Muscle or something like that I believe it's called, but I haven't used it. Has some cool demos on YouTube.

>>654017
>I just don't see any advantage of this over just sculpting things.

Not having to do extensive retopo, for one.

Honestly, I feel the only reason sculpting is the industry standard is so that higher ups can ask for constant alterations and redesigns before approving the final design and handing it off to a low paid internet for retopo.

>>659575
But retopology isn't difficult at all? Once you get a feel for where your important edge loops are supposed to go (which you'd have to know with or without a sculpt anyways) retopology's a pretty simple process. It does lean on the tedious side, but as with anything it gets much faster with time.

>>659575

Sculpting is the industry standard because it allows total creativity, you can create very complex shapes very quickly that would be a pain to do with poly modeling.

>>659589
>It does lean on the tedious side, but as with anything it gets much faster with time.

But probably still nowhere near as fast as being able to model to a game-ready poly count in a single pass.

I can see why the big industry is all about sculpting - they've got marketers and managers wanting changes made, designs that have to go through iteration after iteration before getting the official seal of approval, and people on lower pay grades to do the tedious work that requires less skill.

...But for a smaller company on a smaller budget, someone who models like this would probably be a way bigger asset to them than someone who models in zbrush.

>>658625
This guy has all the right priorities. A true veteran of the internet 3d scene.

>>659594
>the industry
>total creativity

Those things are mutually exclusive

I'm a starry eyed blendlet newbie and I wonder: can this be done in Blender too? The rigging that is

>>659599
Of course. Just find a model with a great rig on Blendswap, and use it on all your projects.

Automatic weights really does wonders.
>awaits the wagecuck screeching

>>659575
>Honestly, I feel
your feelings are wrong and don't matter

>>659598

I'm talking about the artistic process stupid cunt. How can we discuss anything with you stupid blendlets, all you say is "hurrr fuck the industry" and "lol wagecucks".

>>659589
not that guy but here's my beef with retopology. as a skill it's pretty useful for just that task, but if you were to learn that why not just utilize the knowledge to model that mesh to begin with? wouldn't it save you time?

>>659600
The wagecuck is probably spending his slavepay on hookers, and too high on cocaine to even care about these posts.

>>659656
If the concept is clear, either in mind or in paper, modeling directly is the fastest way, using sculpting to add detail later. But if you want to explore forms, and don't want to, or can't draw, sculpting is much quicker add you don't have to worry about the technical aspects of modeling.

>>658521
Yeah, that's what there hasn't been a single reputable right wing intelectual in centuries.
Right wingers are just "pragmatic" apes, rednecks that are too tired to think about chaning anything, just like banks, who work on infrastructure from the 70s.

>>659618
Industry artists are the least creative of the bunch. They all do the same shit, probably out of having to work fast and having to work within the constrictions of their software.

>>659676
Radically changing an infrastructure for something that requires massive capital is reckless. Of course it's gonna be old. Why does this confuse you?

>>659676
(((Academia))) is a leftist safespace, no rational person shows his power level among these cultists. Besides, leftists are idealist thinkers, philosophers and circle jerkers. Right wingers just do things.

>>659676
>>658521
Are American leftists so fragile that they have to say this ridiculous stuff?

What absolutely insane statements to make. Who do you think you are fooling?

t. the rest of the world

>>659711
Oh, it doesn't confuse me. I'm being merely descriptive. Capitalism is conservative by nature nowadays. Reactionary forces have always been lazier.
It's the reason why we're stuck with 8 hours shifts from the past century, that, apart from proven to be unhealthy and less productive, could be halved given the technological improvements we've gone through.

>>659716

So, what I'm getting from here is you're drones and conspirativists instead of rational people.
Also, "you do things" and follow your dreams and what not.

>>659716

>complains about leftist safespace
>what he wants is a space with rightwingers
>A space safe from left wingers
>A safe space

:OOOOO