/3/ - 3DCG

[Anonymous No.619960]

What is the worst 3D modeling program?

[Anonymous No.619972]

paint 3D

[Anonymous No.619984]

>>619972
Paint 3D is limited but interesting. I'd say Blender is by far the worst, if you can even consider it a "3D modeling program".

[Anonymous No.619994]

can't think of any "bad" one. at most they just lack functionality.

[Anonymous No.619998]

>>619960

Blender

[Anonymous No.620001]

Bryce, although it does have some neat Boolean features.

[Anonymous No.620005]

>>619960
c4d

[Pangaso No.620017]

Good

[Anonymous No.620021]

>>619960
Depending what you go by
For my Blender, fuck the Ui

I know modo, maya, max, Cinema 4D, xsi ( back when it was still alive), autocad, zbrush, mudbox and 3d coat, and by a fucking mile Blender is the biggest clusterfuck of counter intuitive retarded UI, i even menaged to get used to zbrush dated photoshop wanna be UI but i never got used to how shit blender is.
If not for the fact some plugins i use at work are blender only i would never use it.

Zbrush take second price for being shit to use even if its not a full modeling package and its poly modeling tools are an afterthought. Fucking zmodler brush "lets put 100 different features under one context sensitive button so you cant key bind it or even predict what the fuck will it do" fuck that.

Third spot goes to anything from Autodesk, its all the same shit designed 40 years ago, all the did in last 10 years is steal all ideas from Modo.

[Anonymous No.620022]

>>620021
fuck, almost all opensource GNU/loonix software has the worst gui. Half the fonts are always missing, but worst of all everything is just counter intuitive. People don't call GIMP "gimped" for no reason.

[Anonymous No.620023]

Can I actually have a break down as to why Blender is touted to have a terrible UI?

[Anonymous No.620034]

>>620023
because it's not a clone of the inefficient shitshow that is Max

[Anonymous No.620035]

>>620034

[Anonymous No.620039]

>>620021
So, Zbrush 2nd place just for ZModeler? Wew lad.

[Anonymous No.620042]

>>620021
Zbrush actually has the worst UI I have ever seen. It operates so alien to literally every single other program I have ever used, even doing things that should be simple like starting a new project and saving it, exporting a mesh, etc, are hard to figure out on your own. Blender throws a lot of information at you, but it's all clearly labeled and categorized, and mostly follows common design considerations like the menu bar. Zbrush has that early 2000s japanese hobbyist wrote this from scratch UI.

[Anonymous No.620044]

>>620022
The fact the other software has bad UI does nothing to Blender.
>>620023
>>620034
Blender has an horrible UI because it's just a simple reflection of its internal database, which is broken beyound repair.

[Anonymous No.620045]

>zbrush creates utterly alien and horrible UI in order to vendor-lock users
>blender creates utterly alien and horrible UI in order to...
...actually what is the point

[Anonymous No.620046]

>>620045
tabs and pop up menus isn't alien though

[Anonymous No.620070]

>>620039
For the whole package.
But zmodeler highlights just how incompetent pixologic is at designing an user friendly interface and opening windows towards workflow optimization.
And honestly for something this awful they should get a separate award, something like "the worst butchering of a good idea" award or something.
>>620042
True, thats why its just behind blender for me.
I sometimes forget how fucking many options there are to save the project/tool/export/document and all are in different places not linked at all
Still, got used to it, and never used to blender, every time using it is like a new kick in the balls

[Anonymous No.620073]

>>620070
So true. I don't like the Blender UI much but holy fuck, Zbrush's UI is a trainwreck, from the horrible 2.5d shit to flipping your textures upside down to the pointles nonstandard names to the lack of discoverability, but Zmodeler really takes the crown. The crazy thing is that dedicated Zbrush users can get good with Zmodeler. Blows my mind.

[Anonymous No.620075]

wings3d

i don't know why people are saying blender, its pretty fucking robust for a free program. that if you can get around the UI

[Anonymous No.620091]

Probably Milkshape3D, it's the 3D equivalent of mspaint

[Anonymous No.620092]

>>620091
Milkshape3D was useful for making Quake models, so it's more useful than Blender ever was.

[Anonymous No.620094]

>>620023

It's an old meme, Blender was very different many years ago. Back then the UI wasn't generated through Python and many things like sub-window size were hardcoded so it was hard to add new features without cramming a ton of buttons into a small space. Developers also had to shorten text to fit into those tiny buttons, resulting in vague names like "Orco", "Nor", "Mat on Obj" etc. Shortcut keys were also hardcoded, and selecting with the right mouse button is the default.

It was like this up to around 2008. Ever since version 2.5 most things on the UI are very configurable so complaints about it don't carry much weight. Usually it's people who already use something else and are too lazy to really check Blender out. The only reason i'm a Blender user now is because i thought "it can't be THAT bad, can it?" and took a closer look into it. It had a few weird moments but you get that with every software youre not used to.

[Anonymous No.620095]

>>620094

[Anonymous No.620103]

>>620095

I'm merely answering a question

[Anonymous No.620104]

>>619960
Blender!!!

[Anonymous No.620166]

>>620094
Well I use Blender, and I still have issues trying to work in the UI.

I can model in it, but it's not exactly easy. At the very least they're trying to fix it (keyword here being trying) in the 2.8 releases. Though time will tell if it'll be better or worse.

[Anonymous No.620177]

>>620166

Which things do you find most annoying?

[Anonymous No.620188]

>>620177
Blender's UI (if you can call it an UI) constantly and relentlessly misdirects you. The tools appear to have been organized on purpose to never appear in the correct order no matter what modeling or or other process you want to go through. It's really quite amazing how bad and unuseable it is and how people are able to fool themselves into thinking: "but it's allright, I'm going to just use hotkeys because they're the best".

[Anonymous No.620194]

>>620188
>Blender's UI (if you can call it an UI) constantly and relentlessly misdirects you. The tools appear to have been organized on purpose to never appear in the correct order no matter what modeling or or other process you want to go through.
What are you even talking about? The UI is consistent and logical, with the notable exception of the W-menu. 90% of the things you will use while modeling are concentrated in the W-menu, CTRL-E menu, and a few basic hotkeys (e, r, etc) and modifiers (mirror, subsurf, etc)

[Anonymous No.620206]

>>620194
Yeah, but more than once I keep pressing the 'A' button on the side of the UI and keep minimizing tabs instead of actually selecting the mesh I want to move. And that's only one of my gripes.

And I've pretty much accustomed myself to the hotkeys because i'm not going to do anything manually as much as I can. Because of how unmitigated of a mess the UI is.

And the modifiers, if you don't know what you're doing, can become a clusterfuck of its own.

[Anonymous No.620207]

>>620206
>Yeah, but more than once I keep pressing the 'A' button on the side of the UI and keep minimizing tabs instead of actually selecting the mesh I want to move.
What? The A key on your keyboard, meaning Select (A)ll? By tabs do you mean subwindows? I didn't even know there was a hotkey for minimizing subwindows, I just use the corner triangles for creating and closing them.
If all you want to do is move a single object, go into object mode (tab), right-click on the object, and press G. If you have two meshes in one object, click on a vertex of the mesh you want to move, press CTRL-L, and then G.

>And the modifiers, if you don't know what you're doing, can become a clusterfuck of its own.
Modifiers are nondestructive, so it can't fuck your mesh. If you fuck up a modifier you can just delete it and re-add it. The only thing that can be deceptive about them is the order in which they're processed, which is top to bottom, so if subsurf is above mirror it might cause some alignment issues at the mirror seam.

[Anonymous No.620215]

>>620207
>you can just delete it and re-add it
I wish I could delete Blender and re-add the time of my life I've wasted in it.

[Anonymous No.620224]

lmao what the fuck. I get that blender has garbage UI but how is it that people have this much trouble doing basic tasks? Just google it retard.

[Anonymous No.620240]

>>619984
Why?

[Anonymous No.620242]

>>620240
It makes no sense to ask why facts are what they are. Past 6 years or age people usually get over that stage. Blender is useless and bad is a fact. It just is.

[Anonymous No.620244]

>>620207
Yeah, that's what I meant, the subwindows. Apparently 'A' key minimizes them, and I don't know what kind of assbackwards thought process was used to think that was a good idea.

And I was talking about edit mode. Not object mode.

[Anonymous No.620245]

>>620242
Frankly, I'd argue anything that isn't Maya or Houdini is useless.

Yes, even zBrush.

[Anonymous No.620257]

>>619984
faster than max and maya

[Anonymous No.620271]

>>620245

Excuse me? Zbrush is essential in any serious pipeline.

[Anonymous No.620282]

>>619960
Any one you don't know/understand how to use.

[Anonymous No.620283]

Anim8or.

But it's what I learned on, so I have deep fondness for it.

[Anonymous No.620288]

>>620283

fun fact: i started on anim8or about 15 years ago and now ive been working in the film VFX industry for about 10

were all gonna make it brahs

[Anonymous No.620339]

>>620005
This. Maybe graphic designers use it for it's "simplicity" but for modeling it's nothing but shit.

[Anonymous No.620343]

>>620339
>nothing but shit
That's an accurate description of Blender.

[Anonymous No.620369]

>>620271
Then why hasn't Autodesk bought it out?

[Anonymous No.620372]

>>620369
because mudbox was cheaper

[Anonymous No.620733]

>>620242
>REEEE how dare you try to gain insight and learn about the rationality of opinions before adopting them! Accept my opinion because it is the correct one REEEEEE

[Anonymous No.620734]

>>620733
Not everything is an opinion.

[Anonymous No.620738]

>>620369

Then why is zbrush used in every damn studio on this planet (and probably other planets too)?

[Anonymous No.620789]

>>620271
>Excuse me?
Hey, it makes no sense to ask why facts are what they are, remember?

>>620194
The W menu is just autismal. A menu for things that belong in other existing menus, but they couldn't be bothered to move.

[Anonymous No.620793]

>>620789
>The W menu is just autismal.
...I kinda like it. It's pretty helpful when you don't feel like doing finger acrobatics to let's say perform a vertex merge. W over Alt+M is a lot more comfortable when you've got one hand on the mouse already.

[Anonymous No.620803]

BLENDER SHIT FUCK

[Anonymous No.620959]

>>620734
No, but not everything's fact either.

However, all 3D programs are shit, some are just stinkier than others.

[Anonymous No.620961]

ZModeler 1x. UV Mapping is a giant pain in the ass, there's no real units, and a whole host of other things. What's more, is you sort of need it to create mods in some games.

[Anonymous No.620991]

>hurr durr I can't get used to ZBrush's interface

No one mentioned how terrible 3ds Max's interface and performance is.

Literally the only reason it's being used is because it's an old behemoth everyone got used to that devoured and absorbed all sorts of better software. Yeah, you can do a lot of shit in it, but I can't name another software that gives the user a worse experience.

[Anonymous No.620992]

>>620991
No one mentioned that because it isn't true. The reason people use it is because it gets the job done.

[Anonymous No.620994]

>>620992
It does get the job done, but if you can do what you want to do in any other software, that other software is the better choice.

[Anonymous No.620996]

>>620994
That's possible but as a business you don't like to take unnecessary risks.

[Anonymous No.621011]

>>620994
get out poor NEET

[Anonymous No.621015]

>>619984
>Blender is bad because it is!
>I won't give any reason for my statement it's a fact

What's so bad about blender?
And Maya, Max and Zbrush are shit because i just said so and you can't prove me wrong, because it's a fact REEEE!

[Anonymous No.621017]

>>619960
I've only ever used blender and maya so i would really know. I like blender better then maya, but i'm not saying my opinion is objective.

[Anonymous No.621018]

>>619960
Anim8or. Jesus H fucking Christ that shit was terrible to use.

[Anonymous No.621021]

>>619960
There are no bad tools, only bad artists(or technologically impaired users)

[Anonymous No.621022]

>>621021
It's the artist, not the tools, but it sure is a hell of a lot easier to paint with a brush which hairs don't fray.

[Anonymous No.621031]

Anything thats not blender

[Anonymous No.621035]

>>621017
>>621021
>>621031
Nothing is going to give you back the time you wasted in Blender and its cult but to encourage others to make the same mistake is sadistic.

[Anonymous No.621040]

>>621035
Nothing's also going to give back the time wasted in Maya, zBrush or any other software either.

So just quit 3D and find a good wholesome job, like bag boy or janitor.

[Anonymous No.621043]

>>621040
Maybe we should all stop doing 3D...because we will never find the Shangri-La of 3D applications.

[Anonymous No.621056]

>>620021

>>620021

You obviously have a learning disability. I'm surprised you're able to learn how to use all those programs but can't learn how to use blender. At some point you must have gotten a flu vaccination which made you a retard, because that doesn't add up.

Almost like you have some sort of bias, but no, you're retarded Get fucked

[Anonymous No.621096]

>>621043
Or even better, just shut down /3/ altogether.

I mean it IS a dying board after all.

>>620021
Jesus fuck dude, bias is one thing, mental retardation showing up when you type anything is another. Because I sure as shit couldn't get any of what you said beyond Blender, zBrush and Autodesk having shit UIs And I was only barely able to piece that together.

[Anonymous No.621097]

>>621096
The board is dying because Blender cultists turn off real talents with their non-stop bullying and shilling and they themselves are unable to produce anything interesting or even worth looking at.

[Anonymous No.621163]

daz3d, no question about it

[Anonymous No.621170]

>>621097
>Blender cultists turn off real talents with their non-stop bullying and shilling

????

If anything, it's really the opposite. Most people nowadays typically start doing 3D with Blender, given its whole "free and open source" thing. When (rather if) they come here they're immediately told "fuck off blendlet" in the most hostile way possible, rather than actually being told the benefits of alternate software and how to switch to them.

Hell, even the concept of "Blender cultist" seems pretty inane. Yeah, they do exist, we do get the random "this was made in blender i bet autodesk can't do this can it??!?!" threads every once in a while, but honestly I visit this board very frequently and I mostly see Blender users being the ones turned away when they're just trying to do a project they're passionate about.

People like you are really pushing this whole anti-blender agenda really fucking hard. You're probably going to call me an "ignorant blendlet" or whatever, but no. I genuinely do see the pros that the industry standards have over Blender, why they're _the_ industry standards and why Blender isn't one, but seriously. The argument's made out to be "blender is the literal devil" when it's really more of store brand vs name brand.

[Anonymous No.621177]

>>621170
I agree with you that this board pushes anti blender too hard, and I pretty much find Blender useless. I've tried to use it since the early days and never did like it.

The biggest issue is the UI and the creators know this but, won't do anything about it. They even try to stop people from making the UI remotely like Maya or Unity or any other standardized 3D modeling program. There are key combinations that require 4 keys, that's just fucking stupid. Even the damn color of the UI is awful. Just trying to simply rotate the damn camera is a chore compared to any other program. Even most character creation screens in games use the same camera rotation key combination as something like Maya.

What I would like to see here is more support for bforartists. It's a fork of Blender that should be supported. Yet, you still get ass-hats in here that write if off as trash because it's Blender and that's a disservice. I mean if people hate the UI of Blender why discourage people for trying to fix it?

[Anonymous No.621179]

>>621097
No, the board's dying because most of you retards, when extolling the praises of Maya, 3DS Max or zBrush, don't show jack shit of their work to prove it. And if they do, it's often as shit as a Blender user on /3/.

Seriously, if you want to convince people that Blender's shittier than Autodesk, then show your fucking work. But you don't, because you know you lack skill, talent or the drive to do so. Software is completely irrelevant to that.

Now I work in Blender, it does stuff better than Autodesk, it does stuff worse than Autodesk. But if you're going to tell people Blender is shit and either not be polite about getting them to switch, or showcase your own work. Then it's your fucking fault the board's dying.

[Anonymous No.621180]

>>621179
>Seriously, if you want to convince people that Blender's shittier than Autodesk, then show your fucking work. But you don't, because you know you lack skill, talent or the drive to do so. Software is completely irrelevant to that.
Probably should add that "if your own art is shit, and it's made in Autodesk, then you have no right to talk about Blender being shit."

[Anonymous No.621181]

>>621177
>bforartists
Version 1.0.0 RC1 has been released 4 days ago. It's a definite improvement over Blender but the cultists hate it.

[Anonymous No.621184]

>>621177
I agree that the UI is an absolute clusterfuck. They're trying to change things in 2.8, but monitoring 2.8's progress I kinda feel like they have zero idea as to what they're doing.
Interestingly enough though, keyboard acrobatics are probably the best part of Blender's UI, even though it's commonly cited as the fuckin worst. Things really move when you get used to the hotkeys, and you can change every single one of them if you don't like their complexity. There are even presets that attempt to sync them with Maya or 3ds hotkeys.
And yeah, the camera is absolutely trash. It's really annoying when you jump from a game with orbit view on RMB and blender's orbit view is with MMB. Fly Mode (Shift+F) is a thing though, and it's pretty much noclip in the viewport. It's an absolute godsend and I rarely use my MMB while navigating the viewport.

>Even the damn color of the UI is awful
Shit, man, make your own UI theme. I don't like it too so I very painstakingly made my own.
The theme creator is literal hell to work with though, there's like a million different colors (you can change the color of every single goddamn element and I have no idea why) and you can't have several user prefs windows to drag-drop colors. There are a few presets too, but imo none of them are improvements over the base theme.

[Anonymous No.621186]

>>621170
I've used the old Softimage3D and earlier version of Houdini just fine and both were not known for having especially user friendly interfaces. But all the times I've tried Blender, it just didn't work for me. Maybe the Blender people schould let actual UI Designers in instead of sitting in their closed circles shitting on Autodesk.

[Anonymous No.621242]

>>621184
The reason Blender's UI is so perpetually locked in place is because they implement a 100% custom cross platform GUI toolkit that is unique to Blender. It's not like there's a nice tool like Qt Designer or Glade where you can redesign your program by drag and drop or design new custom widgets with a standard API and lots of examples of how to do it. Changing the UI in Blender literally means coding new OpenGL draw routines.

[Anonymous No.621262]

>>619960
>2018
>not placing your vertices by hand with a text editor

[Anonymous No.621265]

>>621262
Are.. Are there actually people who do this still? Why...

[Anonymous No.621268]

>>621265
It's a joke. Obviously.

[Anonymous No.621270]

>>621268
I once had a guy tell me he "programmed" digital paintings by inputting binary numbers into notepad

[Anonymous No.621273]

>>621270
So... How would that work? theoretically speaking. He would manually write the code for every pixel in the painting...? That would legit be pretty impressive.

[Anonymous No.621274]

>>621273
It wouldn't. All the things he showed were things he obviously stole from somebody else online. He was pathetic to say the least.

I guess it could be done if you write an image header and then pixel by pixel input the colors. Why you'd want to do that is beyond me. Also the file you'd get would be pretty massive as there is no compression, or maybe you are so smart to manually compress a 1080p image.

[Anonymous No.621330]

>>620001
The only thing I use Bryce for is making terrain maps. It's good at that and they export fine. It's also useful for exporting foliage for trees even though the trunks themselves are totally fucked, but modelling a tree trunk is pretty easy so I just delete the Bryce tree trunk and keep the leaves.

[Anonymous No.621332]

>>621330
Oh and I've used it to make skies too.

[Anonymous No.621334]

>>621184
>Things really move when you get used to the hotkeys, and you can change every single one of them if you don't like their complexity.

But that's no different than it is with any other software. 3D coat I use the hotkeys and I can reprogram them as I wish. Maya you can too. Blender acts like it's the only software with hotkeys and editable hotkeys.

[Anonymous No.621335]

>>621177
>The biggest issue is the UI and the creators know this but, won't do anything about it

They can't do anything about this. Everyone in the org that has even suggested making Blender's UI more inviting ends up getting death threats. Blender users are like the Incels of the 3D world screeching about the Chads and their user friendly software.

[Anonymous No.621376]

>>621335
I, unlike other users, would be far more welcome to a better UI.

Those sending death threats need to be fucking shot themselves. Preferably in front of a lot of people.

[Anonymous No.621457]

Anyone not saying Anim8or is probably underage.

[Anonymous No.621475]

>>621457
Excactly. I fucking hatelove that shit because it was the first 3D program I learned, and while it sucked big time it was simple enough at the same time.

[Anonymous No.621547]

>>620242
>no sense to ask why facts are what they are. Past 6 years or age people usually get over that stage
what kind of idiot are you?

[Anonymous No.621558]

>>621547
I don't know but you must be a Blender user.

[Anonymous No.621653]

>>621274
it's almost as if the file would be a map of bits. what's the name for that, again?

but still, i agree - there's no way he actually did it.

[Anonymous No.621654]

>>621653
Yeah I know, thats basically what I was getting at lol

[Anonymous No.621692]

>>620021
I definitely agree with you on the Blendr front. I'm not even bait posting that it's shit, just not for me in the sense that I have to find my way around a 'simplified' GUI. It's like Windows 8 for 3D.

Zbrush, isn't all that bad but I understand what you mean with some of the poly tools. It can get a mess fucking fast but that's the problem with on the fly application. Algorithms can only help so much- just compliment it with something else like 3DS. Low poly in something a bit more complex and high poly in Zbrush.

Autodesk is the same old shit but without that 'shit' you wouldn't really have much to compare it to. I know my way around other applications because of the standard that Autodesk set. Not that I'm being simply nostalgic but it just makes sense. There are a few tools I can use elsewhere to get there faster or to give a slightly different feel but it's always been a good home base.

[Anonymous No.621695]

>>620073
Zbrush is like a shipwreck. It's horrible, you're alone and confused when you first emerge but after a while you tweak it to make it your home.

Then when you don't really need it anymore you visit once in a while to relive the memories in the land of digital PTSD.

In all seriousness when you get used to it, the thing can be a massive shortcut to do stuff that I can't be assed with otherwise. The most important thing is to save well and often (in iterations preferably).

[Anonymous No.621697]

>>620372
/Thread

[Anonymous No.621698]

>>621653
>>621654
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netpbm_format
Then you can use GIMP to convert the pbm text format into jpeg or whatever. People have done it for ages to make icons for buttons, levels for videogames, all sort of stuff.

[Anonymous No.621700]

>>621163
DAZ isn't a 3D modeler, dumbfuck, it's a virtual photo studio.
"Studio" is even in its name.

[Anonymous No.621704]

>>621698
Woh neat, didn't know this. Thanks for sharing!

I hope people didn't use it for HD digital painting though, that'd be severly autistic.

[Anonymous No.621709]

>>621704
It's for pixel art obviously but there are nice upsampling filters like like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hqx
which is used mostly on emulators. I don't think GIMP has it, but it's available.

[Anonymous No.621911]

>>621558
i'm a 4chan user.
i would say that totally trumps blender users.

[Anonymous No.621920]

>>621911
I dunno, sometimes they're one and the same.

Especially if they're using /3/.

[Anonymous No.622255]

>>621179
Us mayabros can't show our work because it's copyrighted/ protected by our studio

[Anonymous No.622281]

Notepad, I've been unable to make anything in 3D, and the camera controls are virtually non existent.

[Anonymous No.622293]

>>622255
What studio? You using the educational license?

[Anonymous No.622468]

Mm3d