/3/ - 3DCG

[Anonymous No.599148]

I`m trying to learn Anime/manga 3D modeling, but I don`t think I`m getting things right...
Just give me some tips and your thoughts on the model so far...

[Anonymous No.599152]

>>599148
>I`m trying to learn Anime/manga 3D modeling
There's your fucking problem.

Animu and Mango are supposed to be fucking 2D.
That shit does not look good 3D with all the computer shit instead of being hand-drawn.

[Anonymous No.599157]

this definitely deserves its own thread

[Anonymous No.599159]

>>599152
I mean, not exactly ANIME.
But anime style...

[Anonymous No.599160]

>>599157
This fucking board deserves every thread that is not another software pissing contest.
Also, it's one of the slowest, so calm your fucking tits

[Anonymous No.599161]

>>599159
You do realize that most of this is baked in AO, various skin shadings and when looking at your OP your eye shape is completely wrong?

[Anonymous No.599163]

>>599148
I would like to agree with you on that. After doing R&D on cel-shading, 2D/3D compositing and stylized modeling & rendering for almost 18 years, witnessing several hardware/software revolutions and technological paradigms, I came to the sobering conclusion that there is currently nothing I (or most other artists) can do to satisfactorily mimic 2D artwork - especially hand-inked artstyles - with 3D CG.

All attempts, even the latest, look off and wrong. Nothing of this 3D 'Anime' work is pleasant to look at. The argument 'good enough' is not satisfactory and usually used by dilettantes to justify compromises or technical inaptitude. As someone with classical art training (oil, acrylics, Chinese ink, airbrush) I cannot accept this attitude.

"Render unto 2D the things that are 2D's, and unto 3D the things that are 3D's."

[Anonymous No.599164]

>>599148
What software is that?

[Anonymous No.599174]

>>599148
Learn to make shaders. Using very simple geometry and the correct shaders, you can make some impressive work. A lot of Breath of the Wild's beauty is achieved through their shaders and their models are easily lopo by today's standards.

[Anonymous No.599192]

IMO RWBY Volume 5 looks pretty decent
https://youtu.be/tHg08RnpSqY?t=1m31s

[Anonymous No.599193]

>>599192
Also checkout Daniel Kreuter

[Anonymous No.599202]

>>599192
This looks like it's done by people who don't understand the medium they try to emulate.
Really jarring to the eye. Looks like a video game cutscene.

[Anonymous No.599204]

>>599152
sometimes it works

[Anonymous No.599205]

>>599202
Sadly it's actually an improvement over the previous seasons. The fag who made it basically stole everything. Then he died and nobody gave a fuck and continued to make his shitty chinese cartoon because money.
>>599202
>medium they try to emulate
This. If you want to get good looking 3D that emulates 2D, first you need to become a "master" at that style.
Don't try to bake bread, if you don't even know how to operate a toaster. So to speak.

[Anonymous No.599209]

>>599204

Disgusting.

[Anonymous No.599230]

Okay geniuses, we get it, you don't like when people try to do 2D in 3D because it looks off to you and any transgression to this opinion is haram in your book. You can go back to doing your guns and your swamp monsters now, no need to get so uppity about this.

[Anonymous No.599245]

>>599230
Seems to me the opinions were mixed, are you sure you aren't the one uppity about this?
Personally it's hit and miss for me. I like some of the stuff that mimics the style, but a lot of it is uncanny valley as fuck.

[Anonymous No.599248]

>>599209
not really lad...

[Anonymous No.599258]

So far...
I think it looks kinda nice, but I don't think I got it right yet...
Random shader I found btw.

[Anonymous No.599259]

[Anonymous No.599268]

>>599204
No.
>>599230
You are a real pleb if you settle for ugly, half-assed shit.

[Anonymous No.599275]

So... Can I get those tips and thoughts on the model I asked for?

[Anonymous No.599278]

>>599258

anything will look incomplete when it's missing eyelashes, eyebrows, eyes, hair, ears etc.

Looking good so far, shader definitely makes it look nicer

>>599275
go to sketchfab and look at other anime models for guidance
https://sketchfab.com/models/5d2f4e1c07bf4c61a6d49c3b10907b5b
https://sketchfab.com/models/17abec44a68a4fc6900a783eea655bd8

watch more anime and take note of how heads and faces change shape when animated

use a gosh darn reference

what more can you ask for as far as tips go? anime models are greatly defined by the features your WIP is missing (hair etc.) and texturing/shading plays a massive part in the final result

[Anonymous No.599284]

>>599278
Thanks, you really helped with those Sketchfab models.
And I'm using a reference. Akari from YuruYuri.

[Anonymous No.599286]

Most anime models I see on Sketchfab use only diffuse to mimic the effects of cell-shading.
It looks nice and it's easier, but it doesn't takes de ''fun'' and beauty out of it?

[Anonymous No.599290]

All you naysayers haven't seen it done right yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdTZ0Sj2I_A

[Anonymous No.599318]

>>599290
Hate to break it to ya, and to all for that matter. In order for anime style models to look ok, they need to change from angle to angle to accomadate for liberties taken in 2D animation. Anime isnt drawn perfectly, with geometry in mind. The reason the guilty gear shit looks nice is because they mimic the 2d art style and change models and shading in 3d, where 2D would too.

[Anonymous No.599327]

anime is garbage, why does 4chan like it so much?

[Anonymous No.599330]

>>599148
There is no differrence in anime/real topology, just variation in the shape

Learn how to do the basics and then use them to do animu :P

[Anonymous No.599331]

>>599163
ARC System is doing pretty good imo my friend

[Anonymous No.599332]

>>599330
Op here... This just creates even more questions...

[Anonymous No.599334]

>>599318
What is the problem? That takes effort but I dont see why that should be a detriment. You want good shit, you work to get it. You could allways get the videogame level without much complication.

>>599332

Not really there is plenty of ifo about it, and its not that complicated once you try it a couple of times
<----

[Anonymous No.599335]

>>599334
btw, to get more control over the shadows, dont change the shape. The shape should be good to the silouette, for more shading here an there, modify the normals, not the shape.

[Anonymous No.599349]

>>599334
Considering the amount of work the regular /3/'er puts in, that' ll be too much work

[Anonymous No.599390]

>>599290
Looks cheap compared to 2D cel animation. Next.

[Anonymous No.599391]

>>599331
Your taste is low and shitty.

[Anonymous No.599415]

>>599152
Black Rock Shooter was 3D, and it look really good
https://youtube.com/watch?v=0ok6ElsQsDI

[Anonymous No.599417]

https://youtu.be/rbfM7w_1HaM

[Anonymous No.599418]

>>599163
I agree

I thought we were finally getting somewhere with Arpeggio of Blue Steel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkKXLvRsm4c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4GuiZPyyc0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JWp0Cyl9Uw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgpMsxC_fgU
I'm talking about the characters, not the ships.
It looks much better when they try to animate everything like the 2d, without tween animation and curves.

BUT that series is over 4 years old now, and every other series that used 3d for their characters was a step back (Berserk being a perfect example)

The only other series that was on the same level was probably Seikaisuru Kado
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jgN_YUdamM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwo5cIS-smg

and like you mentioned that is still not enough.

It lacks all the imperfections

[Anonymous No.599423]

3d looks terrible when you try to "Mimic" 2d. Plus i find people use 3d to describe any computer generated effects, a great deal of animations rely on cg effects to streamline the workflow

[Anonymous No.599470]

I think I got the main shape of the face done...
The back part of the head wont be a problem since the hair will cover it I guess.

[Anonymous No.599477]

The problem is not the shape, its the lighting.
Anime tends to have flat tones all over, even the slightest shading makes it look odd.
Most 3d anime stuff looks terrible because it breaks the immersion, like a full-body, faced kigurumi.

So just pay attention to the lighting, I guess. Nailing the "anime aesthetic" is not as important since its supposed to be hand drawn so it obviously differs from one artist to another.

[Anonymous No.599532]

>>599148
OP, your model doesn't look "anime" because it has too much mesh detail and not enough texture detail.
Look at some models that you like with the "anime" tag on Sketchfab and then inspect it in wireframe mode. You'll often see that the eyes are painted on to a round (convex) or flat surface with no inset (no concavity), or are even painted onto floating planes that float in front of the skull.
The nose is usually extremely (disgustingly) minimal. Lines are often painted onto the texture to create contrast or suggest the presence of features via hard shadows (bridge of the nose, elbow, knees, creases in the skin at arm and leg joints).

Lighting is also a big deal, you can't rely on a single lighting source or method. The goal is to recreate the errors made by 2D artists, and that means characters are lit in a general way that varies little between indoor or outdoor other than their shadows. If you want smooth / even shading you're going to have to manually adjust the normals per frame, any time you get lazy about this you'll have irregularly shaped shading that immediately stands out (even if someone can't say why it looks wrong, they know it looks wrong).
Watch this video for theory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGjCzxJV3E

Watch these videos for tutorials:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9NTBQja_r2NI5e56PvuSAA

[Anonymous No.599654]

>>599477
This right here sempai. Notice how at 1:32 most of the colors remain flat with only slight shading. It's almost like color field painting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB4Ot_FxINY

[Anonymous No.599664]

>>599163
You can use any 3D modelling package to model in 2D as well. You must be incredibly retarded or lying for not knowing this after "doing R&D on cel-shading, 2D/3D compositing and stylized modeling & rendering for almost 18 years, witnessing several hardware/software revolutions and technological paradigms".

[Anonymous No.599960]

>>599163
Houseki no Kuni looked great.
Most stuff Sanzigen and Kamikaze Douga do also look good.

[Anonymous No.599973]

>>599664
Sorry, anon. You lost. Good day. :)

[Anonymous No.600439]

Am I doing this right?
I never tried anime hairstyle before...

[Anonymous No.600441]

>>599973
I think the person meant that you can use 3d programs similar to how a person would use flash or toonboom and make a 2d animation like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cI--TlWiIQ

[Anonymous No.600445]

I guess you guys must cringe everytime you see Yotsuba on the pinned thread.

[Anonymous No.600450]

>>600439
for modeling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwUmjbhzm1M

i'd recommend sculpting hair desu since it's much easier, but it's your call.

[Anonymous No.600458]

>>600439
Try bezier curves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn7mISvVzJk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_Zj2H0UEes

[Anonymous No.600612]

I've done the details...
But hair.. I just can't do anime hair... HOW IS IT DONE?

[Anonymous No.600617]

You need to relay more on textures.

Take it from me, textures are the most important part of modelling otherwise 2D characters. The eyes are painted, not modelled. Most of the face is just a flat plane.

[Anonymous No.600626]

>>600617
OP here, I thought about it, but if I wanted to change facial expression and stuff wouldn't be possible.

[Anonymous No.600636]

>>600626
I think the person is referring to this kind of texture where there are multiple different kinds of eyes on one sheet and you animate the texture up or down depending on the expression. (Though personally I prefer modelled eyes over painted, it's just a preference.)
https://youtu.be/ph04XXLamVQ?t=6m14s

[Anonymous No.600646]

>>599209
You deserve rape

[Anonymous No.600657]

>>600646
All the greenglowlyshit is ugly, but it doesn't look bad as far as mimicking 2D goes.

[Anonymous No.600671]

>>600612
reduce the background's saturation and value a notch. You'll make our asses blind.

[Anonymous No.600672]

https://blog.sketchfab.com/art-spotlight-kumiko-hibike-euphonium/

[Anonymous No.601068]

>>599148
Try editing the model normals to give it the shading you want. The shading looks bad currently, but you need to edit them to give your model 2d-esque shading.

[Anonymous No.601072]

>>600657
green glowy shit is because she's supposed to be a humanoid gemstone

[Anonymous No.601076]

>>599192
don't know why people dick ride rwby
it looks like shit

I skipped the first 3 seasons because it looked like shit and watched some parts of the newer ones but the story is fucking boring and written by an amateur.

I seriously hope that the creators don't think of them as professionals because... wew lad

[Anonymous No.601081]

>>601072
We couldn't protect Phos's smile.

[Anonymous No.601149]

>>599327
The entire site is based off Japanese forums used for discussing anime.. It's kind of part of it all :p

[Anonymous No.601278]

>>599152
gantz had basic models and backgrounds made in
3d and drawn over in 2d

[Anonymous No.602020]

I took a time off the model to practice hair modeling and stuff.
Now I can't decide which type of hair would fit the model better.
1 - Hair strands with textures and alpha maps...
2 - Hair strands with curves
3 - Full 3D hair
If anyone could give me a light here would be nice.

[Anonymous No.602091]

>>602020
2 with an animu shader will work best.

[Anonymous No.602129]

>>602020
I'd suggest 3

[Anonymous No.602151]

I prefer my 3d models like pic related

[Anonymous No.602157]

>>602151
underage and flat-chested?

[Anonymous No.602159]

>>602157
Yes.

[Anonymous No.602208]

I'm scared that if I post a legit reply you'll end up like one of those fags on the good workshop

[Anonymous No.602772]

its fine for mmd or whatever except when they try to mix it in with normal anime shows the transition is quite jarring and immediately noticeable to someone that is quite familiar with the medium. They do it to save money

I tried to make my other waifu because I can't find a good model which represents her but it turned out very bad, so I think faces are hard to do, need a lot of experience.

[Anonymous No.602780]

>>602157
>>602159
Hmm, that's how I like it in real life too

[Anonymous No.602781]

>>602772
When I was first started off, I never textured my models because the base was always fucked.

At least you have the drive to go a little further than that, stopping halfway is probably what made my progress so slow.

[Anonymous No.602782]

>>600612
add some more blush on those cheeks my dude and lower those eyebrows

[Anonymous No.602794]

I am also having difficult times with the head..

[Anonymous No.603150]

>>602794
is it weird that i like the blocky and different colored gray look it has?

[Anonymous No.603427]

>>599209
You clearly haven't seen houseki no kuni

[Anonymous No.603430]

>>603427
...and that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.604783]

How did I do so far? It'll end up in unity. Any tips on making it easy to work around intricate areas like the mouth and fingers?

[Anonymous No.604823]

>>599284
that is terrifying

[Anonymous No.604835]

>>604783
So that's why people shout at noobs to study anatomy. I get it

[Anonymous No.604837]

>>604835
Anything in particular I should start working on?

[Anonymous No.604870]

>>604837
How many muscles of e.g. a leg can you name, and can you point at them in your model?

It's not a requirement to know anatomy like a doctor, but you should know at least superficial muscles.

I think you just don't know you are trying to make. It's like you know a head connects to a neck and neck to the upper torso, and there are some muscles there, but you completely ignore existence of clavicle and stm.

Even stylized characters are done with anatomical knowledge.
Many forms get simplified, and others exaggerated.

You lack anatomical knowledge, so you should start working on that.

Another thing is, it looks like you were modeling instead of sculpting. That's not advised these days, unless you go for really low poly.

[Anonymous No.604874]

>>604870
>That's not advised these days
>Not advised by talentless hacks
fix'd

[Anonymous No.604879]

eyes aren't inward holes

[Anonymous No.604880]

>>604879
Mines are, because I have no soul.

[Anonymous No.604881]

>>604874
and what are you going to do? Bake your modeled low poly? Edit your maps in 2d in photoshop?

[Anonymous No.604899]

Working on a 3D model of my waifu. UV unwrapping is the most annoying thing ever.

[Anonymous No.604917]

>>604870
I guess I might not be good enough at 3d to imply the presence of these muscles because I did try at one point to make them more prominent but since this isnt a sculpt and it's low poly for a game/animation I would have to change the topology significantly, which isn't a good idea and is better suited for texture I believe.

I did model it, but that's mostly because I dread the sculpt->retopo process.

I'll keep working on it.

[Anonymous No.604951]

>>604917
>I dread the sculpt->retopo process.
It's actually more efficient, because you're going to be able to bake textures which would be hard to draw yourself.

If you are just a beginner, then it is going to be harder for you judging which details can be done with just texturing.

If you stick to the modeling, you should definitely concentrate on the contour of your character.

I also advice you to work off a reference.

[Anonymous No.605075]

>>599163
Why don't any of these anime studios frame blending? It's a simple fucking concept: after animation is done, take every pair of frames and blend them to create a more natural motion rather than the stuttery robotic mess that most cheaply-produced anime feature. It's how actual 2D anime is done and would easily make things easier to watch.

[Anonymous No.605118]

>>604899
Painting is hard.

[Anonymous No.605137]

>>605118
Ugh, I don't understand why the seams on the boots have that white line. Been messing around with the UV, but nothing seems to work.

[Anonymous No.605142]

>>604899
I'm a nigger who uses automatic unwrap on almost everything and tries his best to hide the visible seams with texturing and decals. So far it has always been working great for me baka desu suiseiseki.

[Anonymous No.605146]

>>605142
>Automatic unwrap
No, just shitty unwrap.

[Anonymous No.605149]

>>605146
Well no shit.

[Anonymous No.605150]

>>605149
But why are you so angry, Anon? Had a bad day? Want to talk about it?

[Anonymous No.605154]

>>605150
These are my posts:
>>605142
>>605149
Where do you see any kind of anger here?

Sometimes I wonder if everyone here are literal autismos without any social experience. You're projecting a bit too hard, mah boi.

[Anonymous No.605156]

>>605142
>>605154
Yes, it is hard to say if you were angry without any other signs. But it would be assumed based on how you write. Sorry if I'm guessing wrong.
Also,
>hide the visible seams with texturing and decals
Where, specifically, I used decals? And where am I trying to hide seams with texturing, according to you? And is it wrong to hide seams? Am I supposed to place them in places where they can be seen?
pls respond

[Anonymous No.605158]

>>605118
>>605137
Hey, she looks really good, well done! The dress details look pretty sharp, you're using a bunch of separate materials, right? Are you gonna put that on sketchfab at some point? I'd love to give you a follow.

Take a screencap of your UV's please? If you did any sort of preliminary color baking on those boots, it may be that you need to adjust the edge padding.

[Anonymous No.605189]

>>605075
if you are talking about frame ghosting aka soap opera effect, then, no that's not what 2d anime does.

To improve 3d anime look, animators should do more pose to pose, and less working with curves, on lower fps.

[Anonymous No.605190]

>>605189
Yes, frame ghosting would be what I meant. 2s anime doesn't do that? Then how come whenever you pause during a dynamic scene you'll find frame ghosting? And either way, isn't it something that would vastly improve the visuals of current 3D anime?

[Anonymous No.605225]

>>605156
Oh, I get it. You completely misunderstood my replies lol. I was jokingly talking about my OWN workflow, I didn't even mention you anywhere. That's why you thought my replies sound like I'm angry kek. No, it's fine.

[Anonymous No.605227]

>>605225
>>605156
Oh and btw to answer your question - you're supposed to hide the seams somewhere where they won't be easily seen, yeah, that's the point. When I'm doing environments with a shitton of small objects, I usually just say "fuck it" and auto unwrap those, it often does a decent job, so eh. Even if there were visible seams, you wouldn't be able to see them anyway.

[Anonymous No.605228]

>>605190
ok, I think you are either mistaking blur effect and either takes on animation smears, or the person who ripped, encoded the video you downloaded had forced interlacing on.

That effect is also used in slow motion parts where characters leave the so called afterimages of themselves, but there is more to it than that.

You would need to show me an example to keep the conversation going.
If it's HMVs thou, there are 2 schools of thought.

As for improvement of 3D anime:
If the goal is to make it look as close as possible to 2D anime, then 2D animation principals need to be present.

24fps, animated on 2s, or less depending on scenes and budget. Any episode that gets downloaded and is at higher fps is because of credit rolls, everything is still animated normally.
Pose to pose animation, and keeping it sharp.

3D animation is closer to Flash animation, and not hand drawn animation. Motion tweens and smooth curves in graph editor easily break the immersion.

here's a great video about principals of animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqjIdI4bF4
It may help you understand some things
as for replicating the 2d look with 3d, I guess you are familiar with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGjCzxJV3E
Pay extra attention to what he says about how everything is animated.

[Anonymous No.605284]

>>605225
>>605227
I'm truly sorry, I thought you were mocking me. I feel stupid now.
Thanks for answering my questions by the way. I'm new at this, so any help is appreciated.
>>605158
Sorry, but I don't plan on putting my models anywhere.
In regards the UV's, you mean the image with the texture of the boots? With the, uh, faces of the model visible or not? There's a lot of wasted space, now that I look at the unwraps.
And no, I just unwrapped and painted directly on the model; there was no baking or anything. I'll look into edge padding and see if I can fix it. Thanks, Anon.