/3/ - 3DCG

[Anonymous No.436465]

is there a way to recreate playstation graphics in a 3d software?

for clear purposes.

[Anonymous No.436467]

yes. just use blender

[Anonymous No.436469]

>>436465
Simple, don't use Anti-Aliasing, stick to textures that are no larger than 256x256, use only simple, blocky shapes for everything (no bevels ever), and use simple point lights for lighting without shadows. Simple as that.

[Anonymous No.436470]

what do you mean playstation graphics?
all the graphics are made with a 3d software, do you think they popped out of thin air?

[Anonymous No.436474]

I think he is about all that slight juttering and warping of textures and geometry like in OP video.

[Anonymous No.436475]

>>436474
render at a really low resolution and frame rate and then stretch it back out in post.

[Anonymous No.436476]

>>436467
kek

[Anonymous No.436477]

oh and used baked lighting instead of bump or normal maps.
That's the real key

[Anonymous No.436489]

>>436465
You should at least feel a little stupid for asking this. Those are basically planes with drawings over.
Drawings are called textures.
Kust make basic shapes with textures.
Doesn't look like PS1? That's because you probably suck at modeling and texturing.
Oh, so, what's the key?
Not sucking. That's the fucking key.

I can't believe people won't realize this by theselves. Holy shit how difficult is it to understand. It's just basic shapes with textures, OF COURSE any fucking 3D application CAN make it
PS1 games looked good because they were made by good artists.

Can it be done? Yes, sure.
Can you do it?
Nope.

[Anonymous No.436492]

>>436489
>Can it be done? Yes, sure.
>Can you do it?
>Nope.

[Anonymous No.436505]

>>436465
Yes make the damn scene for ps1 specs.
That is Find a way to fit all the graphics in one megabyte of frame-buffer... So either you fit all the textures and polygons in that or stream one MB chunks like probably Ace combat did... or a lot of games for the ps1 did.

[Anonymous No.436508]

you people do see the lines that are suppose to go straight, but don't for some reason right?

remember all the graphic glitches on ps1 games?

i mean everyone knows render low res and turn option off to get the look of a ps1 game but you want it exactly like one can 3d programs do that or are they to good to do that?

[Anonymous No.436509]

>>436508
Texture warping on ps1 game is because it didn't do floating point operations. Its was all rounded to the nearest whole number. That's why There was jumpy animations too. Meaning if you can make you program not interpolate the texture coordinates on a polygon then yeah it possible to get similar effect. Dammed if i know how one would do that.Other than sticking the model in a ps1

[Anonymous No.436513]

>>436509
You could do it pretty simply in Maya by using a rounding expression on the texture coordinate value.

[Anonymous No.436524]

>>436467
>>436469
>>436470
>>436475
>>436477
>>436489

you all missed it i suppose.

>>436474
>>436508

that's what im talking about. i've veen this done on a pc game called high macs simulator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcM38NJihM and wondered if this was doable in render software

>>436509
>>436513

imma look into this

pic related is some of my work that id like to have the ps1 render on.

[Anonymous No.436583]

Just use OpenGL?

[Anon No.436594]

>>436509
IIRC the texture warping was b/c the PS1 didn't have a Z-buffer resulting in affline texture mapping. The lack of Z-buffer was also the cause polygons popping on top of each other when they clip. The lack of floating points only resulted in jumpy polygons and animations.

You're probably gonna have program your own 3D engine that simulates all of the limitations of the PS1 since modern game engines try to stay away from these issues.

[Anonymous No.436601]

>>436594

i see.. thats what maybe causes those face overlaps too like in the gif and the high macs game.

well maybe i'll find out how to do this someday, in the mean time i'll stick to nintendo ds graphics. I just love this effect. takes you rigth back..

i think somebody mentioned id have to actually get my model into a ps1 game.. im gonna see if thats really possible, like make my own ps1 rom or some shit

[Anonymous No.436602]

there must also be a way to make the vertices act like in ps1 games (see how they look like theyre snapping on a grid?) that effect alone is pretty cool

[Anonymous No.436605]

>>436594

Affline mapping probably consumes less processing power, so maybe it could be used on distant objects even today.

[Anonymous No.436610]

>>436602
They look like they're snapping on a grid because 3D is essentially a grid. It's simply a low resolution grid because it's not using floating point values.

[Anon No.436611]

>>436601
I tried doing that, I gave up since the 3D tools for porting models to the PS1 I found are for ancient software that don't work reliably on modern Windows.

[Anonymous No.436613]

>>436611

damn. this is too bad.. i wish someone made a tool that can easily display models this way.

that would be like the BOMB. my favorites lowpoly models are probably from final fantasy 9 and megaman.

i still make ds/ps2 tier models but id love to see them in this type of render, like i would make a fucking game or movie if i could have this. but i probably never will..

so heres a wip for you guys instead.

[Anon No.436615]

>>436613
You could also try and aim for N64 graphics since the only limitation (other than lo-poly) is to have some absurdly low res (32x32 I think) textures.

[Anonymous No.436616]

>>436615
the n64 blurs the texture and i hate it. but did the n64 allow more polygons for characters?

about the ps1 graphics i already searched far and beyond on the subject. so i'm gonna try to ask on polycount that has a pretty big community of lowpoly modelers if they know on the subject
when their slow admin will let start a thread.
my last resort would be to ask that guy that made the high macs game but hes japanese so theres very little chance hed give a shit about a baka gaijin

[Anonymous No.436623]

>>436465
That game, so good...

[Anonymous No.436625]

Please which game was this? I used to play this all the time when I was a child

[Anonymous No.436626]

>>436625

ace combat: electrosphere

i replay it every once in a while.. the soundtrack and mood of the game is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQcTqu4AzqM&list=PL42E35BB5984A1A50

[Anonymous No.436684]

>>436626
I just came to this thread to high five you for playing my most favorite game ever EVER. I'm dead serious. Bye.

[Anonymous No.436712]

>>436602
Yeah, it's called making a model and load it in a PSX model viewer.

[Anon No.436732]

>>436712
Do you recommend any PSX model viewers b/c there's a few of them and they're all game specific from what I found. Also how can I get my model into the viewer?

[Anonymous No.436734]

>>436712

i checked some of them and the viewer doesnt seem to render the models like the actual playsation at all.

[Anonymous No.436736]

>>436594
Correction: It was not because of lacking of a zbuffer, since to do correct mapping you don't need a zbuffer at all.
If I recall correctly it is just one or two extra divisions per line (or pixel, cant really remember, last time I implemented that was years ago)

The console didnt do it because to increase performance, since it was an expensive operation for the hardware of that time

[Anonymous No.436737]

>>436602
Trivial to do with a shader... just round the vertex positions (and anything else you want, normals, texture UVs, etc)

[Anonymous No.436749]

>>436524
>post a poorly worded and meaningless question
>somehow still get intelligent responses
>"you all missed it i suppose"
why are you even here

[Anonymous No.436755]

>>436749
Because its an interesting concept douche gtfo

[Anonymous No.436836]

>>436734
I don't mean a model loader that loads models from PSX games. I mean a model loader that you run in an emulator.

[Anonymous No.436863]

>>436836

but how do you even do that anon

[Anonymous No.436899]

>>436465
This is just a shot in the dark, but I imagine Blender would be flexible enough to allow it through scripting.

[Anonymous No.436977]

>>436508
It was because the PSX lacked a Z-buffer

[Anonymous No.437012]

>>436594
>>436977
A z-buffer is a performance optimization. It does not have anything to do with texture perspective transformations.

[Anonymous No.437018]

>>437012
ITs because of the lack of z buffer
read thi post by this guy

http://ngemu.com/threads/perspective-correction-whats-up-with-that.21080/#post-249845

Lewpy aka of lewpys glide plugin for psx emulation

[Anonymous No.437598]

bump for interests

[Anonymous No.437613]

>>437598
MILITARY
STRATEGY
awesome

[Anonymous No.437618]

>>436613
damn post the full satsuki

[Anonymous No.437772]

>>437618

[Anonymous No.437822]

>>436465
>low resolution window, 700 x shit
>low poly models. 500-2000 i think, unrealistic oldschool hyperbolism proportions gives extra shittyness
>low res texture. 256 x 256 maybe, draw texture cartoon or anime like, no normals and crap, which means you make every detail in the diffuse texture
>gouraud shadeing for crappy shading where you see parts of the geometry
>no fucking antialiasing or other improvements, this is 1998.

and there you go.

also there is some simple workflow to do this, so that it looks like ps1 models from the beginning: use blender

[Anonymous No.437832]

was reading a thread in /vr/ related to this, in particular this post >>>/vr/1880496 suggests that >>436594 is half right.

>Saturn and Playstation both affine mapped 3d polygons and draw them as 2d sprites. N64 was the only machine that could draw real 3d objects.

The z-buffer didn't cause the affine mapping, it was just how the ps1 rendered things

[Anonymous No.437862]

>>437772

Retriangulate that boob manually. Looks indented.

[Anonymous No.437882]

Man I miss the look of old PSX games, shit I've tried to recreate an engine that replicates the look but every single OpenGL/DirectX tutorial only gives tutorials on how to make next gen looking shit and advanced shader tactics. I don't enough about low level graphics programming to make my own rendering engine. It's much easier to just learn how to program on the PlayStation itself and recreate the look on real hardware.

[Anonymous No.438001]

>>437882

check this out tho, its a pc game that has that very psx look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlz-mpov4qY

now how he did it i have no idea. probably made his own engine like you tried to.

[Anonymous No.438003]

>>438001
>now how he did it i have no idea. probably made his own engine like you tried to.

[Anonymous No.438012]

>>437882
Man, just read the thread, it was discussed already.

There's no secret to it, it is all about low res textures/ low poly models and then doing emulating the psx fixed point in shaders, like
>>436737

You may also want to disable zbuffer and manually sort the meshes...

[Anonymous No.438017]

>>436737
sounds simple. now how you do this in lightwave 3D? or maya? or anything?

[Anonymous No.438024]

>>436476
samefag

[Anonymous No.438043]

>>438017
You would basically have to code your own renderer.

Sounds like you will need to find a coder person willing to help with that

[Anonymous No.438079]

>>436737
Unfortunately, it's actually not as simple as that, since you'd be transforming the actual vertex positions when rounding, which would build up position inaccuracy until your mesh looked like a mangled mess of stretched faces. You would need a way to round vertex positions BEFORE render-time, then undo the rounding after render-time but before the next animation frame takes place. Which could theoretically be done with Pre-render and post-render MEL scripting, but it would be quite a convoluted approach.

One approach might be to duplicate the animated character on each frame, leave the original hidden, and do your rounding on the copy. This way each frame you are doing the rounding based off the un-modified copy... Hmm, might have to try that.

[Anonymous No.438090]

>>438012
Yeah and like I said I couldn't figure that out because all the tutorials and documentation are focuses on next gen rendering techniques. It's not just about the textures and low poly models there's a very peculiar way that the PSX rendered polygons the same goes with the N64 and Sega Saturn. There was no standard back ten so they each their own approach. Much easier to just port my code onto the Playstation itself.

[Anonymous No.438100]

>>438079
Alright, played around with some scripting a bit and I think I got it. My script hides the reference object and duplicates it, then does the rounding. On the next frame it deletes the previous duplicate and duplicates the reference object again at it's new animation position to start over, giving the needed effect.

[Anonymous No.438101]

>>438100
I can easily adapt the script to do this for every object in the scene as well.

[Anonymous No.438106]

>>438101
>>438100

wow, looking good man. what program are you making that plugin for?

i use lightwave and blender.

[Anonymous No.438107]

>>438106
It's no plugin, just MEL scripting within Maya. I apply the code as an expression, which causes it to cycle every frame change.

[Anonymous No.438110]

>>438107

neat. could you share the script? i might use it later when i actually know how to use maya.

[Anonymous No.438111]

>>438110
I'll release it later once I've looked it over more and made some improvements. I need to know if the bones for animation in those PS1 games were using integers as well, if so, I need to script in some stuff for that too.

And what was the other effect people were talking about with z-depth? Is that for transparency sorting? Cause, Viewport 2.0 has a few sorting modes and one of them might work for it...

[Anonymous No.438115]

>>438100
I wonder how you'd do this in Unity, I would assume trying to optimize this for a game would be a real bitch.

[Anonymous No.438120]

>>438115
Only if you wanted your game to run on mobile...
But in Unity, you'd simply do this by writing a custom shader instead, would be the most efficient way.

[Anonymous No.438127]

>>436601
The faces overlapping in that image, is caused by the integer rounding, so sometimes vertices are penetrating the mesh in places more or less than usual, resulting in it popping in or out of the overlaps.

[Anonymous No.438128]

>>438127
I though the face overlapping was from no Z-buffer.

[Anonymous No.438132]

>>438128
Nah, watch it closely, you can see how the vertices are popping to the nearest integer, causing that. If they had no Z-Buffer, then you wouldn't be able to have one character in front of the other like that, as it would simply be based on render order instead of render distance then.

[Anonymous No.438143]

>>438120
But how would you keep the vertices from continually being distorted until it becomes a geometrical mess? Unless the position of the verts reset every frame?

[Anonymous No.438147]

>>438143
Doing it through a shader prevents that, since the shader is fed the vertex positions from the animation each frame, and the engine isn't animating the results of the shader, it's only animating the base geometry, shading happens after that operation.

[Anonymous No.438148]

>>438147
I'm curious, can you do vertex shaders on hardware from say... 2005 or earlier?

[Anonymous No.438150]

>>438148
Uhh, probably, but it would require a tonne of shader research, why, what kind of hardware are you thinking?

Also, here's my script on something more fitting (models aren't my work)

[Anonymous No.438156]

>>438150
thats pretty cool man

[Anonymous No.438168]

>>436465
Oh, and the reason why the level is popping like that; if you take a look at the ship, there's no popping going on with it... strange, huh? It's because the ship isn't moving, they're using an old trick where you move the level around the player, thus giving you an "infinite" amount of distance you can travel, despite having such a limited grid-space.

[Anonymous No.438192]

>>438150

so it works with bones hierarchies too?? we're getting closer!

[Anonymous No.438292]

>>438150
damn that's hot

[Anonymous No.438345]

>>437018
Well, according to that post, if he knows what he's talking about, it's not the lack of a z-buffer, it's the lack of z coordinate in the vertex data being sent to the GPU. That's kind of hard to believe, because z coordinate is required for all transforms... unless the PS1 didn't do hardware transforms. That would mean that essentially all the hardware did was pixel filling, and the entire 3D pipeline was all done in software. I guess that's plausible since we're talking about 1994.

[Anonymous No.438376]

>>436863
Make a PSX homebrew.

[Anonymous No.438912]

please keep us updated on the script and say when you might release it

[Anonymous No.438917]

So has anyone got some UV maps they could show off to help me figure out how you can lay my UVs?
Id love to see some because I think I keep getting it wrong.