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426284 No.426284[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Hey guys.
I'm the french student who made and showed you the Persepolis 3D scene. For the end of my 2nd year of 3D lessons at my school, I did this very short movie. Wanted to know what you guys think about it.

https://vimeo.com/97434145

Funny fact: Even though I had to do it, someone here told me that I was nowhere near being able to do a very short.

>> No.426290

Op here.
We had 4 month to do it since the script was written.
I know the main problem is the terribel walk cycle and the fact that there is no ending.

>> No.426292

Jesus christ it was fucking awful

>> No.426293

Bad. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddd.

>> No.426294
File: 20 KB, 400x301, 1385766419653.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
426294

Could you please precise why it was that bad ?

>> No.426295

>>426294
Everything. You cant even make a correct walk cycle so dont try to make a "movie". Just embarrassing. I hope you dont show that to anyone.

>> No.426296

>>426295
I do actually. I said it, this is my end of the 2nd year in 3D. but we had 4 months for all of it, so people here don't really expect much I guess. even though there is really great stuffin our prom.

What do you guys think about the story ?

>> No.426297

>>426296
Cant believe you took 4 whole months for that and you've been doing it for 2 years already. Its wendy vanity tier. You WONT make it in this industry.

>> No.426308

>>426297
I assume you are just trashtalking me, and not giving any advice/review.

May I see your job, just for information ?
I'm not the type of person who think that you need to do better to be able to criticize.

>> No.426310

I don't see any sense of inertia to the guy's movements. You can't have wiggle without some jiggle, OP. If he moves a limb/the body from point A to point B it'll go beyond that point to point C and return to B (but really it'll be the sneaky point D right next to it)

That combined with the walk cycle makes him walk like he's a lame robot made out of styrofoam.

You need to venture out and search shit out yourself, man. You can't rely on your school to teach you shit, they don't need you to find a job afterward to get paid.

>> No.426320

your character moves very robotic and his face doesn't change at all. I have a hard time believing it took you two months to make that. I could do the same thing in under a week.

The modeling all looks very nice though. The guy looks like he's straight out of Team Fortress 2. People here are haters, people who expect everything to be Pixar/Dreamworks level of quality and none of them have made any animations themselves.

>> No.426325

>>426284
How many people worked on this project? What were you doing for 4 months!?

I don't need to point out the walk cycle because you said yourself it was bad. But Did you use reference? did you film yourself walking? it looks like whoever animated that walk has never seen a human walk before..
None of the animation anywhere has any follow through. There are no arcs from point A to B. When he comes through the door at the start he abruptly stops and then slooowly different body parts start rotating to the left as he walks off again.

I did like the overhead establishing shot of the warehouse, probably the only time there was any ease-in ease-out motion of the camera, but the walk cycle there was bad too.
When the conveyor belt moves the first things he has to make (with the screws) you could have done so much more with that.. the belt moves at a constant speed and then just stops! Its such an easy thing to animate it just looks sloppy. The animation of him tightening the screws wasn't terrible though.

I had a hard time reading what he was thinking/feeling as his face hardly changed throughout the entire film. Facial animation is really important for something this short. I went through it again and saw that there are tiny changes to eyebrow position and at one point a really small smile but thats it. You need to really push those facial expressions to convey what you want him to be feeling.
After all of that he walks again like a retarded robot to the door where I assume he got vaporized by the amount of light coming in.

As far as the story goes, its not a story. It has no ending so it fundamentally is not a story. Out of curiosity what is supposed to happen after he walks outside? Can you explain what you wanted to have happened?

All in all, it is bretty bad for 4 months. If it was just you by yourself and you had to model, rig, texture, animate, light, render and comp it all I would still say "What were you doing??" for 4 months.

>> No.426329

The animation is too much robotic. Plus, the story is bad, we know from the start how it will end + bonus point to the text on the screen, We don't fucking need this. Every Disney, pixar movies are supposed to be understandable without text or voices, renember that if you want to continue in this industry.
By the way, your school is pretty retarded to make you do an animation all by yourself. Ok, you do everything and you're polyvalent, cool. But none of your classmate will stop you when you're doing bullshit and you probably don't know about teamwork.
This is pretty bad, even if we got to be better to everyone in this industry, we need each other to learn and to understand our mistakes to progress.

Anyway, if you got 15 000e to spend, go to supinfocom or Lisaa if you want a true formation.

>> No.426330

>>426325
In my conception of the story, the guy was a product of that world: really cold and sanitized. My teachers told me that he was not human enough for that "human vs robot" story to work. Even though, I couldn't help myself. In my head, he was like that.
I don't think that kind of character would be a problem in a real life movie. I think I don't build my stories as animated ones, 'cause im not really attracted to their themes/style.

I've been through that exercise about "what does the character feel ?", and all I've been able to think is "this is my job", "just an ordinary at the office", or even "it's already done for me, I'm fired anyway".

After he walks out, I originally think of him trying to light a cigarette. As the lighter isn't working, he throws it in the trash, and has a smile on his face while starring at it.
Basically, I had the idea of the story watching my mom throwing a scissor in the trash, as it wasn't cuting anymore. I think my character as someone who puts things into perspective, someone realistic.

TF2 wa my main inspiration. I though the mood was relevant for my kind of story. And I couldn't go for realism.

Finally, yeah. I did everything on my own. I wasn't working on it 24/7 as we have lessons beside that project, but yeah. I know I could have done better, for sure.

Thanks for your answers boys. I'll keep training on my walk cycles. I plan to do a run cycle this summer, 'cause I'm really disapointed of myself, but I don't think I could have done better with the time we ahd anyway.

>> No.426331

>>426329
I doubt my school is bad. We, students, don't think that being a generalist this early is good too. But ,it is the way it is.
Of course, my teachers and classmates know when I'm doing shit, but even though, I have to respect deadline, so we can't spend too much time on things.

The TV is an idea of my teachers, for the story being more understandable. I don't think it was a bad idea.

>> No.426338

>>426330
Aaah okay, Knowing that you did it all yourself explains a bit then, from your comment earlier in the thread "We had 4 month to do it since the script was written." I took the "We" as a group.

Its real pity you couldn't have got that ending in there though. It ties it up quite well. If you do have time in the future it might be worth adding the end in and possibly re working the animation.
As someone else said the character is quite good, I thought straight away TF2 so you hit the nail on the head there.

Lastly, don't be disappointed of yourself. Take what has been said (well the useful stuff to you) and apply it next time. You can only get better, you need to make mistakes to improve.

>> No.426343

>>426284
How did this take four months to make? It doesn't show.

>> No.426356

>>426343
As a guess? People are still learning while they're making things. There's a chance the guy had other assessments and such too.

Christ, /3/ is so toxic and eltist all the time.

>> No.426358

>>426356
No, the guy wasted his fucking time making a movie when he couldnt even do a walk cycle. Shameful.

>> No.426360
File: 124 KB, 640x811, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
426360

>>426331
Yes, bellecour is shit, pic related. Go to a real school and learn real animation, pls.

>> No.426361

Make your character animation have character. Walk cycles might seem boring to do, but if you move beyond the basics and into expression they become very fun!
You can tell a LOT about someone from how they walk in real life - make your characters embody that in your videos. I should be able to look at your animations and know - just from the walk cycle - how your characters are feeling, etc.

>> No.426369

>>426360
For an exemple, Supinfocom students spend 1 complete year on their project. So yeah, their movies are better but we don't have the same deadline.

>>426356
That's exactly it.

>>426361
Indeed. That's why I'll do a run cycle, and comeback do you guys. And, as I said, I think my character is a product of that sanitized world, so I wanted a "cold" walk cycle. Failed it so bd anyway.

>> No.426371

>>426284
Record yourself doing these actions, take note of all the subtle movements your body makes.

Also arcs are your friend, the graph editor is your next best friend.

Have follow through/ lead ins and anticipation.

You have some clever shots though!

>> No.426376

>>426371
Thanks.
As I'm using the biped, the graph editor isn't that much my best friend. And yeah, I plan on improving my animation skills, firstly on the artistic level, and then, technically.

>> No.426385

6 means sufficient

Character design: 6.5 / 10
Main character is well proportioned and appealing. His eyes look creepy probably due to bad animation.
Could have been a 7 if it wasn't unoriginal

Texturing: 5/10
Not good enough. Cheap texturing looks bad. There is no visual interest, surfaces are not well defined.

Lighting/rendering/shading: 5/10
Ambient Occlusion is not enough. There is no style, no art direction to be seen anywhere. Everything is so impersonal and bland. This might go well with the theme of the short, but it's by chance. Even if it's a stylistic choice, and it's probably not, the execution is weak

Animation: 2/10
You clearly have no idea what you are doing here

Script/Direction: 4/10
Too basic for the theme you chose. You couldn't handle it well, neither technically nor artistically and definitely not with brilliant writing either. If you choose to go serious or artsy with your plot, make sure you have the expressive tools to make it worth, otherwise it's just ridiculous. Sad background music and a red industrial background are not enough to express a subtle atmosphere of oppression etc etc you get what I mean

virdict is: nope. You're not ready. Try again.

>> No.426387

>>426385
sorry I meant ambient occlusion is too much

>> No.426388

>>426385
meh means sufficient

Character design: meh

Texturing: meh

Lighting/shading/rendering: shit

animation: hooooo hhoooo hoooooo

Script/direction: shit

virdict is: it's bad. Real bad.

>> No.426393

>>426388
>>426385
Thanks guys. I'll comeback to oyu with the proper ending.
I prefer having a good story/directing than being good technically. So I'll do my best do improve that.

>> No.426441

>>426393
Just keep at it faggot, even if this rates a 9.0 on the shitometer, I'm sure you can improve. Just keep getting better and work on your weaknesses, or specialize. who gives a fuck

>> No.426448

>>426284
i liked it

but i'm really confused why we could hear you fapping in the back ground the entire time

>> No.426452

>>426441
Will surely do. Thanks.

>>426448
The music "Brandon" already has that "tac tac tac" sound. That's why I choosed it. It's from the movie "Shame" by Steve McQueen.

>> No.426466

>>426310
>you can't rely on the thing that is designed to teach you shit to teach your shit.

>> No.426471

>>426466

>Muh just werld'

It's designed to either generate income because it's an asset or workplaces to the techers because they're a pressure group, depending on who owns the school. Those interests will naturally become priority.

The feudal system was for the good of the people and a (permanent) social contract. Declaratively. Which means nothing, of course. Claiming one thing and doing another isn't exactly new but if you take it at face value can you blame an institution for taking advantage of your dumb ass? It's not a person with a conscience, it's an organism made of people.

>> No.426472

>>426471
>this amount of autism in one post

sad.

>> No.426615

>>426296
I don't know enough technically about 3d animation but

>>What do you guys think about the story ?

Lol'd. Pretty sure you're a troll.

>> No.426627

i thought that clip wasn't bad, i don't give a fuck about 3d animation though.
just one thing that annoyed me was the title. don't try to be artificially artsy with a title that doesn't make any sense. a machination is always humaine and if it's supposed to be a pun, it should still make sense. those little things can be very annoying if the guy that's rating your clip gives any fuck about the artistic aspect of it. other than that the atmosphere and directing were pretty good.

>> No.426661

>>426627
Not sure if serious? He's French so the title literally translate as
Human-Machine

>> No.426662

>>426284
OP, Bellecour Ecoles is a pretty decent school for 3d right?

Monsterbox was made by 3 or 4 students as a project there (http://vimeo.com/49224248).). Is this the same line of study as you?

>> No.426691

>>426662
Not OP, bellecour is medium i'd say. Some student that come out of there are talented and have no problem to work (as in any school), but it's not a school that buids a network you can rely on to get jobs as soon as you've finished it (in paris at least)...So if you're gonna study there, be ready to work hard

>> No.426719

>>426284
Hi fellow esia. I don't want to repeat what has already be said.

I like the modeling but the scene is really empty. It looks like a scene from a developping game. There are only the machines and the walls. Add some life to it, so we can believe in it. Use some factory references add some tools, screws, toolboxes, tables, ... and work on the textures.

You didn't gave enough details on the battle between the man and the machine. It's a "duel" so we must feel the tension between them. I imagine some shots where the man is working slowly but with passion on very little part of the toys like a clockmaker, trying to reach the perfection and some others where you see the machine just doing the exact same thing very fast and without giving any attention to the details.

Don't give up on this and try again, work your weakness and ask around about your work.

>> No.426761

>>426284
Tell me, what grade did you got from this animation?

Otherwise don't ask for criticism in 4chan unless it's /ic/, otherwise you're asking for shit posters to come here and call you a shitfag.

>> No.427051

>>426284
If you are still paying attention to this.
try to rotoscope the animations till you can do it free hand.

>> No.427270

OP here.
Thank everybody.

You all are right, everybody who see this say me the same thing, because it's pretty to notice how bad it is. I know it is. Maybe not that bad, but whatever.
I didn't take a single references for that shit, and I just came back from the Annecy Festival, and that's obviously the main problem. My teachers use ti say it all day, but I was too much in a haste I guess. I assume this kind of exercise are done to make mistakes.

The thing about the title is: The sound pf "Machination" just reminds of the machine world, even though it has nothing to do with it. And that's pretty much why I did that story. I didn't wanted to make it a machine vs robot plot. I wanted to be clear on the fact that it's a Human, who prefers to keep the machine for profits. And it's barely logical. But as I said, I think the script is quite clear, but I could'nt do everything I wanted.
The Boss was supposed to have a voice who says to the man what he has to do, and while he speaks, he cough. I think that was enough to point that even if it was an electronic voice, because it goes through the TV + old school, he was a human.

>>426761
I think, even if I failed it, I'll get to the 3rd year of 3D, which is the last.

>>426627
Thanks. As I said, I'm just came from the Annecy Animated Movie festival, and this teached me that I don't build that movie/my stories as animated ones. I guess I'm not enough of a fan to do it. I tend to criticize the kiddiy oriented movies a lot, especially from the big studios like Pixar and Disney, when people in 3D are just happy to see beautiful pictures. I simply prefer the live action movies, sincerly. That's why I'm probably going onto the video game world, unless the movie I work for isn't dumb.

Finally, there is some really nice stuff on Bellecour/Esia, even if it's probably not the TOP.

>> No.427271

>>426719
You are absolutly right. I tried to reach that idea but was tough with the deadlin. I added the shot which he smiles lastly, I tried to apply to do the shot where the man put the doll on the assembly line, doing it slowly, even if it was off-camera.

Will surely do. Thanks.

>> No.427276

>>427271
>>427270

I've never visited board before, I frequent ic and b usually. I saw a 3 in the bottom of the page and wondered what it was. here I am now.

So firstly, why are there so many negative and angered commentators? What's with all this negativity? This student is trying and thats the most important thing. Don't be so negative; it doesn't help.

Here's my opinion OP, I saw your video:

Story-wise, it's a bit cliche. Man vs Machine, Machine is better than man, man has heart but he fails in being better. etc etc..

Animation-wise, it's not good. If you look at Pixar's stuff, their characters move very fluidly. I think the problem with yours is that you have your character posed, so you're posing him in all the different poses (pose to pose technique in animation) and then you basically pressed tween and ta da! you've connected all the poses together.

What this does is it creates a very jerky effect, almost robotic as someone said before. It makes it look like someone who animated it in 3D, not a real person. The movement should be smooth, fluid, and have a bit of overlap, just to make it look good. If you know what I mean.

But don't be discouraged. I have a 3D teacher, I'm an animation student myself, and my teacher has been a pre-vis artist for the Hobbit films, Narnia, a digital artist for Animal Logic, and a director of several films. The films he directed almost had the same problem as yours, in terms of animation. And he's very experienced as well.

So don't be disgruntled, it takes time and I wish you good luck in your future. I would look back at animation principles, Richard william's book "An animation survival kit" is a very VERY USEFUL resource. Read it and maybe even try animating in 2D. It'll help you!

Good luck

>> No.427291

>>427276
Thanks a lot mate. I know this is a long road. I'm currently working on my 2D skills indeed, it can only be positive.

>> No.427467

>>427276
>he frequents both /b/ and /ic/ yet he doesn't know how this board approach mediocre work

>> No.427493

>>427467
How does this board approach mediocre work?

>> No.427511

>>426284
There are some problems, but at least you saw the project through to its end. You should work on your walk cycle, the walking was too jerky, get more reference an observe. Facial movements and poses could use some work too. Since it's cartoon, get some over exaggerated movements in there as well.

>> No.427968
File: 49 KB, 600x800, 1403044713919.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
427968

>>426284

The walk cycle gave me a headache.

>> No.427987

>>427968
The tits cheered me up.

>> No.427988

>>427987
enormous nose kills it.

>> No.427998

>>427987
I figured if I put tits with the criticism I wouldn't break ops heart.

>> No.428064

>>427998
I'm no touchy feely, but ty anyway.

By the way, I got 9.5/20 average mark on this, on 4 teachers marking.

>> No.428743
File: 243 KB, 1000x423, 786.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
428743

>>426360
This seems like bullshit to me. Do you have any sauce on that? That may be relevant for a few french studios but if you get a look at the big vfx houses abroad, top of this list would be artfx and esma. Just have a look at the student films.
pic related it from 2012 I think