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/3/ - 3DCG

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396547 No.396547 [Reply] [Original]

Are there any techniques to render animations in 3DS Max as quickly as in video games, or close to it? Video games also have plenty of reflections/refractions and lighting, yet video games render in real time, while in 3DS Max it usually takes about 3 minutes to render one frame.

>> No.396548

Bake everything

>> No.396578

>>396548

I don't know what that means.

>> No.396579

>>396548
no, videogames like crysis take advantage of parallel programming for gpu while max is written in serial for cpu

>> No.396580

>>396547

Videogames models are 10k triangles max.
For modern games 5-7k is the average for characters if not too many on screen. Are you using models with millions of tris or something?

>> No.396582

>>396579

Also plenty of baking, fake reflections and really low res post process refraction effects as well as using shadowmap technology instead of true raytracing.

>> No.396583

>>396582
>Also plenty of baking, fake reflections and really low res post process refraction effects as well as using shadowmap technology instead of true raytracing.

you can still trace rays. Refraction doesnt have to be low rez or post process if you dont want

>> No.396585

>>396583

Show me a game that doesn't do it that way.

>> No.396588

>>396585
i....dont have source code....

>> No.396589

The closest you could get is using direct X on everything and render the viewport using the 'make preview', but that'll look pretty shit compared to any actual game.
The offline renderers in software like max/maya etc uses very high quality sampling that's focused on image quality, game engines focus on speed and sacrifice
accuracy in oreder to achive this.

If you wanna make machinima type animation use something else to render your stuff. I don't know what that something would be but I've had my eyes on
this for some time http://mycryengine.com/?conid=59

>> No.396590

>>396580

Actually that was like 5 years ago. Currently a primary character is more like 30 K~

>> No.396591

>>396590
what ? polycount doesnt matter now, only num of draw calls

>> No.396594

>>396591
Ofcourse it matters if you could use infinite amounts of them it'd be awesome, it just isn't the primary thing you worry about anymore in the same way it'd use to be.
Wwith a slack of +- a few thousands you have enough room to maneuver that you're not very worried about it but ofcourse you have a poly budget.

>> No.396653

>>396548
>>396578
not OP, but can someone explain what baking is to me?

>> No.396654

>>396594
no, polycount is pretty much obsolete.

>> No.396656

>>396654
>troll harder

>> No.396657

>>396656
you are the troll

>> No.396658

>>396653
Baking is rendering to texture, so you can do things like light your model with complex expensive lighting that takes perhaps hours to calculate
save that information as a texture that renders in realtime giving the illusion of really complex light in the scene.

Mirror's edge is a good example of efficient baking used for environments.
Another typical example is baking normals of a highpoly mesh by projecting them onto a texture of a lowpoly one creating a normalmap,
or rendering a ambient occlusion pass to give a general GI look to a moveable objects and characters for use in games.

>> No.396659

>>396654
>knowing this little about the actual game industry
>wat
Surely it matters less than it did 5-10 years ago, but it's far from obsolete. Don't you think MMORPGs would use higher polycounts if they could? It's not only about developing for todays consoles or gaming computers, you have to think backwards to at least the XBOX 360 and the PS3, and to singlecore CPUs when you create a game. Sometimes with integrated graphics!

Stop trolling the newbies of the board, they will take away crappy knowledge and never learn anything real.

>> No.396660

>>396658
ah i see. I didn't know you could do that with ambient occlusion. I only know how to render it as a separate layer in maya. I'll have to look into how to do that

>> No.396661

>>396659
>Don't you think MMORPGs would use higher polycounts if they could?

wow was developed starting in 1999 my son, the codebase is still rooted there. Time for you to suck my dick and balls

>> No.396662

>>396661
Name one title that disregard polycount or stop trolling.
Since you can't really do the former, stop trolling.

>> No.396663

>>396662
get it through your head - polycount does not matter, only drawcalls. If your engine was built in 1999 and its now 2014 then it does matter. If you are a nigger running a game on an original gameboy, then it does matter for you, nigger

>> No.396664

>>396663
>And thus the troll was debunked, but he still kept squealing indefinitely as if it never had happened.
>The End.

>> No.396665

>>396664
If you want to disprove the fact that i laid out, that pc is obsolete, do so now, troll

>> No.396666

>>396665
Not that guy but here you go anon, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics

>> No.396667

>>396666
not reading any links - if you have something to say, say it right fucking now or accept your fate as a troll

>> No.396672

>>396547
Max doesn't have LOD meshes, or distance-aware texture resolution, or any decent translucency shaders for plants. So I doubt you can optimize your scene enough to render something like thatin realtime.

>> No.396674

>>396667
Basically he's saying that for your claim to be true thermodynamic conservation laws must be false, invalidating all of modern physics.
Polygons are not ethereal things but rather data sets that must exist physically on memory and which need to be calculated by a processor with a finite processing capability.
Current hardware can handle no more than a few million transformed and lit while retaining workable update speed, but since we wanna do lots of stuff except just calculating triangles
like running shaders and animations and game logic like physics, AI etc this number is massivly scaled back for games, to run smoothly you may have no more than perhaps ~2 million polygons
on screen at any given time and this should cover everything in the environment.

Polite sage since you are indeed a troll.

>> No.396676

>>396674
nice strawman son. Of course you cant load in a trillion poly mesh. Are you trying?

>> No.396681

>>396676
Husch now little anklebiter, these grownups has been very tollerant with your 'niggering' 'son' and general hostilities and it's time to god to bed now.
I'm a troll just like you, and even I can tell you've been counter-trolled into another dimension, continuing would just be shameful.

>> No.396685

>>396681
please tell me you are that cripple from last week with ms who trolled from his wheelchair while sitting in his own shit and piss

>> No.396686

>>396685
Okay, but only since you said the magic word.
I'm that cripple from last week with ms who trolled from his wheelchair while sitting in his own shit and piss.

See how easy your life becomes when you're polite?

>> No.396687

>>396686
you spelt 'your' wrong

>> No.396688 [DELETED] 

>>396686
ha ha ha cripple it is you. I knew it all along. Time for your meddys now kid

>> No.396689

holy shit what is going on in this thread. is /3/ always this autistic?

>> No.396690

>>396689
only when that cripple shows his wretched gay face

>> No.396691

>>396547
You could always buff up your viewport with custom shaders etc. and then just render as preview... as was suggested.
I'm sure there are even tons of plug-ins to do just that..

>> No.396693

>>396676
>Of course you cant load in a trillion poly mesh.

So you admit that you're wrong? I thought polycount didn't matter.

>> No.396694

>>396693
nice post - quality. Worth the type

>> No.396737

>>396694
>>396693
you two were made for each other

>> No.396756

>>396580

I don't even have that in the entire scene I'm curently rendering, but reflection/refraction takes forever, and something else is slowing it down drastically, maybe opacity.

>> No.396942

>>396582

Is there a way to reduce reflection and refraction resolution in the scanline renderer? My teacher recommended staying away from mental ray at first, but scanline renders so fucking slow for some reason.

>> No.396943

Why would you want to render in real time?

>> No.396961

>>396943
Not Op, but I would like a good DirectX renderer, one that rendered with really high settings and perhaps ran at like ~3 fps or something.
It'd be awesome for creating great looking animation on the desktop.

Making CGI shots takes to long for it to be any fun to work with unless you're in a studio that has a good renderfarm.
Biggest reason I went over to working with games in the firstplace was the time wasted rendering and re-rendering to see how materials looked etc.
Realtime graphics is really good enough for almost any non-photoreal level work. It's also much easier to tweak as you can see exactly
what your shaders look like while you change settings on them.

>> No.396978

>>396547
Yes. Real-time rendering is an active field of study. Real-time path tracing is making some big strides. The next generation of consoles (after PS4 etc) will probably feature it commonly. There are already desktop GPUs that can do it in real time for simple scenes. If you have a good programmer who can be efficient with the way your scene is managed, you could probably do a fairly complex scene in real time. My personal guess is that the first real-time-path-traced game will come out for PC in a year or two. Just a guess.

>> No.399135

I just got a Tesla C2075, but I was reading about the latest versions of NVIDIA Maximus stuff working with Vray.

it looked real fast

>> No.399137

>>396663
>gameboy
>poly count

>> No.399164

>>396588
no game uses raytraces for in game use, a few car games however will use a ray trace for a screenshot, though i forget which ones did that.

>> No.399165
File: 87 KB, 549x275, 2486940-0248877224-ChsSw.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
399165

>>396687
im not going to bother finding the post to reply to so look back in this chain and find the most appropriate one.

polly count basically doesn't matter anymore. sure you can give examples where a cutscene is rendered in game and zooms in to a low poly something as say im disproven, but thats not the point, the point is largely we have enough pollys that the detail added by a 10 times increase isn't noticeable. the only reason you can even pick it up in the picture i posted is because they aren't shading dick.

hell look at resistance 1 and resistance 2 on the ps3, oh shit i mentioned a game on inferior hardware but humor me. the difference between 1 and 2 was a doubled polly count on at least the enemies if not everything, and people had to be told it before anyone noticed it.

we hit the plateau for just pure polly count increasing the games look.

in my opinion the next one should be textures we bang the fuck out of it, and than lighting is all thats left (as far as graphics are concerned) at that point you are literally free to do whatever you want because it no longer matters, you realistically aren't being held back unless you want to do something fucking stupid.

>> No.399166

>>399165
Poly count very much matters, please post your sources anon because I do want know where this shit is coming from since you're not the first on this board to drop such claims.
You realize that in games today we still have to employ LOD meshes and trickery just to make the environments draw at even a low 30 fps? Now why is that?

I've bet this stems from some lame ass 'game journalist' who went to quakecon and heard Carmack talking about 'the diminishing returns in graphics'
who didn't really know what the fuck he was writing about and misinterpreted what he had heard as 'herpaderpa polygons = free' or some weird shit.

>> No.399167

>>399164
>no game uses raytraces for in game use, a few car games however will use a ray trace for a screenshot, though i forget which ones did that.

sure they do. I just watched the making of killzone shadow fall and they use raytracing all the time. The guy even said to not be scared of raytracing. \

Are you fucking retarded or is your head in the sand like a fucking ostrich??

http://youtu.be/_29M8F-sRsU?t=1h5m52s

>> No.399168
File: 213 KB, 772x420, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
399168

also at this point

http://youtu.be/_29M8F-sRsU?t=1h5s

tldr: You are dead, dead, dead, DEAD wrong

>> No.399203

>>399165
you do realize this image is fake do you ?
If not, then congratz yourself, you are a sheep.

>> No.399205

>>399203
Well it's not really fake, it just makes a flawed exemplary case for what's going on with the 'diminishing returns' problem, since it wastes all the extra polygons at describing negligible curvature.
The image falls into programmer art, as a stock object used by a tech to illustrate his case to an audience comfortable with such simplified abstractions and fulfills that purpose well enough.
It becomes a problem when shown to an art-centric audience of content creators that have a less naive understanding of to spend a poly-budget that take it at face value, as something else than it's intended.

>> No.401204

Want to make things near real-time? Use a GPU-based renderer like Octane or Furryball.

CGI rendering software for film like Mental Ray and V-Ray are horribly out of date with their shitty CPU only solutions.

>> No.401208
File: 490 KB, 449x401, slutz.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
401208

>>401204
>Want to make things near real-time? Use a GPU-based renderer like Octane or Furryball.

realtime doesnt mean noisy as shit, you dumbass. Realtime means 30 fps minimum, no noise ever

>> No.401277

>>401208

what does noise mean?
ive seen it in some other threads, seems like its something like "fucked up" texture