/3/ - 3DCG

How long does it take to learn anatomy

i don't get what's so mysterious about anatomy. i mean don't you have a body? look in a fucking mirror.

>>915621
But anon, I am ugly. If I look in a mirror as a reference, my models will be hideous. I can only create ugly things because ugliness is my existence, my reality, the interface through which I view the world. I'm completely hopeless.

>>915621
> average /3/fag's physique according to this anon

>>915620
2 weeks for each component compounded by another two weeks with each self-reflection session until the artistic depiction of the human body by your hand becomes second nature.
>>915621
Negro... The female body is as mysterious as it get because you don't have that muscular definition to work off of like you do with males.

>>915626
i don't get what's so mysterious about anatomy. i mean don't you have a x-ray machine? look at the fucking machine.
>imagine using a mirror

>>915621
> he ran into a problem: How to construct a cheek? It was clear that the form was not just a sphere, but several complicated forms combined. He thought: “It would be great to understand what these forms are and how they go together!”
> he ran into a problem: How to construct a cheek? It was clear that the form was not just a sphere, but several complicated forms combined. He thought: “It would be great to understand what these forms are and how they go together!”
> he ran into a problem: How to construct a cheek? It was clear that the form was not just a sphere, but several complicated forms combined. He thought: “It would be great to understand what these forms are and how they go together!”

HOW TO ANATOMY:

STEP 1:
Buy Netter.

STEP 2:
Learn all the bones of the skeleton by heart.

STEP 3:
Learn all the facets of the skeleton by heart.

STEP 4:
Learn how to decently draw each bone of the skeleton by heart.

STEP 5:
Learn all the muscle insertions by heart.

STEP 6:
Learn all the muscles by heart.

STEP 7:
Learn how to decently draw each muscle by heart.

STEP 8:
Get Delavier's "Strength Training Anatomy".

STEP 9:
Learn how each element that you previously learned fit and work together.

STEP 10:
Find an artstyle that you like. Try to draw anatomically correct figures over and over until you find the style pleasing to your own eye.


You will not see any progress until you reach step 10. You will be discouraged thinking learning so much is a waste of time. You will start to think that the key is jumping straight to STEP 10 and start practicing. Buddy, you can't practice something that you never learned how to do in the first place. It's like me practicing writing in Kanji even though I don't speak a word of Chinese.

Keep in mind that what I just described is to reach an average level. By no means whatsoever will you become a master of anatomy. But even so an average level is all you need to create anything you want.

"Anatomy For Sculptors" is shit btw. It's like the Down Syndrome version of Delavier.

>>915617
https://austinkleon.com/2020/12/10/quantity-leads-to-quality-the-origin-of-a-parable/
tangentially related, don't try and conciously understand cheek form, just create many cheeks until you get good at it, let your subconcious work out the details

>>915722
You forgot one important thing:
STEP 0:
Proportions! Learn to see them, draw everything with simple lines to capture proportions, until it's your second nature.

without that everything else would be pointless

>>915694
By that I mean that if you're going to sculpt a stylized character or muscly one, there's one way that you're going to see every muscle definition/insertion in your own body by just looking at it in the mirror. Unless you're a professional bodybuilder.

>>916307
That's covered in step 10, bro.

"Muh proportions!" is something really novice artists focus on. By the end of the 10 step program you'll realize how meaningless they are because by that time you trained your eye how to understand proportions instinctively.

Proportions change with focal length, camera angle, movement, etc. Art is about learning how to trick the viewer's eye into seeing what you want them to see and not about following a specific set of unalterable rules. Changing proportions from shot to shot is what great animators/artists do.

>>915722
holy crab, go back to /ic/ grinding boxbones
if you need all this shit just to make a human then you are eternally ngmi

>>915722
>>916311
I pray to God there aren't any /beg/s listening to you and taking you seriously

>>916322
Proportions are a consequence of anatomy, not the other way around. Learning proportions before anatomy is like learning the alphabet before you can speak: practically impossible.

In life there are only two ways: ngmi or follow my advice no matter how tough it sounds.

Signed, someone who works in the industry.

>>916316
>if you need all this shit just to make a human then you are eternally ngmi

You actually think that's a lot? Tell me you're ngmi without telling me you're ngmi. What I described is only a fraction of the shit I know. I thought I was describing the easy mode version of being an artist lol.

>>916311
It is not. You never mentioned proportions at all.
It's something you can't bypass in learning and have great results.
I see many artworks with excessive details like pores and peach fuzz but the character looks ugly overall. And the reason for that is those artists don't give a shit about proportions. Also that's one of the main reason why many fail to make a believable face.
Those aren't rules that's just how things are. So either you consider it in your work or just ignore it and poke in the darknes hoping it'll work.

>>916475

That's like saying that it's the font that makes the writer, not the books themselves.

If you don't know anatomy then no amount of "muh proportions practice" will help you. If you know anatomy it only takes less than a day to master whatever proportions you want.

Go ahead and build your "muh proportions" masterpiece on NOTHING. When you're tired of wasting your time come back to my advice, build a strong anatomical foundation, then start actually doing some work that is worth money to other people.

>>916323
>What I described is only a fraction of the shit I know.
pyw or you are just a sad crab and your opinion is useless
studying every bone of the skeleton, lmfao

>>916323
>I thought I was describing the easy mode version of being an artist lol
You are so far up your own ass you don't realize that you are describing what essentially is a total overkill. It's like someone on /lit/ would want to write a short story and an Anon like you started a tirade on how it's completely necessary to first study linguistics and how each word came to be, then continue with the general history of language, proceed with advanced study of the Trivium, reading the Odyssey and at least a hundred other western canon masterworks, and /only/ after that all he could proceed with writing his own story.
Would it work? Yes, if he was a machine with perfect dedication, infinite free time and mind that would never lose any knowledge.

It's funny how you mention "practicing writing in Kanji even though I don't speak a word of Chinese", considering that yes, this is a valid way of learning - the more senses you use, the better you memorize. Handwriting is an especially useful tool when it comes to acquiring new neural connections. What you instead propose is to learn each letter individually first - without knowing how they interact with each other, this is just a waste of time.

We learn by doing something wrong, then repeating it afterwards and fixing our mistakes. Studying names and bone positions is completely useless until you actually start drawing (and yes, personal projects are a great way to retain motivation for the more dry form of learning). Post your work.

>>916307
Proportions don't work in different styles or real world. Cartoons are meant to look goofy and human bodys are not perfect. Proportions are often use to reference the pose or body, it is never used for important things.

who's the KRENZ of sculpting?

>>916540
>studying
>lmfao

>>916544
>total overkill
>Studying names and bone positions is completely useless


"How can I learn something without me actually putting any effort whatsoever in actually learning?" - The Eternal NGMI

Kids, don't be like this.

>>916544
A couple of months of work.
>essentially is a total overkill

Find something else, anon. You're not cut out for this.

>>916613
>>916614
Again, post your work. Your opinion on this topic is totally useless without it.

>>916619

Your turn.

>>916646
Ummm sorry he's not gonna respond or post his own work... If he does end up responding though it will probably be some nitpicking

>>916323
>Learning proportions before anatomy is like learning the alphabet before you can speak: practically impossible.
you don't need exhaustive knowledge of anatomy to get a good understanding or proportion, you need only know the absolute basics of anatomy.

>>916962
And the absolute basics of anatomy will get you an excellent job in retail or Starbucks.

>>916977
that's 100% troof but ultimately proportion is just a to b not the whole alphabet.

>>916544
If you don't know linguistics you have no business writing a story. Mediocrity is not something to be proud about.

This is what happens when you have knowledge of anatomy, but have 0 knowledge of proportions.

>>918138
and you will never in a million years even reach that level lol

>>918167
Why would anyone want to reach that level?

>>918202
so you can reach the next one?

how is this even a question
are you challenged in some way?

>>918138
This is not even real, you just covered the body in blood vessels and bone. You forgot to add the gross stuff. Even the link is too huge for a human to talk. Why add female chest if you think it's made of fat, news flash it's not.

>>918236
who are you talking to?

>>916646
*crickets*

>>916619
bro? your work?

>>915626
Pretty accurate

>thread about how to learn anatomy
>post explaining how to learn anatomy
>everyone complains it's hard or impossible to learn anatomy that way
>post proving you can indeed learn anatomy that way

/thread

hey leonardo, hows the painting coming?
uhm, im still layering the muscles over the skeletal structure come back in a few weeks

and the prize for the greatest self own on this board goes to:

>>918740

I'm watching this course on udemy right now
https://www.udemy.com/course/female-anatomy-for-artists/

>>918803
>https://www.udemy.com/course/female-anatomy-for-artists/
>"I watched all of John Petrucci's videos TWICE! Why can't I play the guitar???"

Listening to a podcast is not learning. Sorry.
Not shitting on the "course" btw. I really like the guy's style but the only people who will get something out of the podcast are people who are at STEP 10, see >>915722

>>918811
I will try doing those steps first then

>>915722
Alright This feels like a complete fucking meme but im desperate.
I'm going to actually try this.

>Step 1
Fuck you i'm just going to pirate it.

>Step 2:
>ALL the fucking bones.
Netter does not have neat bone section I can read from so I'm looking outside of the book and refering back to it when ever I find a new bone.

I'm also using this quiz to make sure I know what ever I have just learned.
https://www.geoguessr.com/seterra/en-an/vgp/3800

If this is not in depth enough for the bones tell me and I'll look for a different quiz.

>>919194
>Netter does not have neat bone section I can read from

Netter is the Gold Standard from which every other Anatomy Atlas copies from. Netter was a dude who could paint and went to medschool. People noticed how top tier his illustrations were and were willing to pay him the big bux. He spent most of his career fine tuning his Atlas of Human Anatomy. The 4th edition is the complete edition, best money you will ever spend. Newer editions are good also but it includes illustrations from other artists. There are also other top tier anatomy atlases but none of them have his artistic flair. Netter's stuff is both aesthetic and anatomically correct.

You won't find a proper digital copy anywhere. I checked.
This one's fine but it's not like the printed version:
https://enarm.com.mx/catalogo/31.pdf

The resolution of the images is shitty though.

The Atlas is a massive tome but you only need to learn about 30 pages or so.

For visualizing the bones and muscles in 3D I recommend this: https://www.youtube.com/user/Anatomie3DLyon/videos

Thing is actual human body scans won't help you because there's so much anatomical variation that you'll be lost. That channel does a fantastic job at showing how the bones should "ideally" look.

Then after you're done with the learning part get Strength Training Anatomy by Delavier. This is to understand the aesthetics of the human body. There's more in-depth anatomy in Pic Related than you'll ever find in any artist's class or video tutorial.


Netter's tough and you will need to learn it 100 times over because you will forget it all 99 times. The knowledge it will leave you with is some basic stuff about bone shapes and most importantly the muscle insertions. It might not seem much at first but with this knowledge you will be able to easily read Delavier's illustrations. I keep Delavier on my desktop. Takes only a couple of seconds to reference anything but only if you already went through Netter.

>>919255
nta but I have a question about Strength Training Anatomy. If Netter's Anatomy teaches anatomy, then what is STA for? I want to know so I can study it effectively.

>>919263
movement

Muscles slip and slide in and out of each other. The Netter Atlas shows the body in an idle pose. It's impossible to understand how muscles function just from Netter. Plus it's a medical atlas. When surgery is performed the body is always placed in the same exact position. Doesn't matter how many decades of experience the surgeon has, if the body is in a different position then what he's used to he'll have a tough time finding his way around.

Think about the weird posing in a body building competition. That's so the judges can properly see all the muscles. Just pronation of the forearm completely changes its shape and how the muscles relate to one another.

>>919263
I just use Delavier as a reference. Each time I'm unsure of something I take a look at a similar movement.

>>918138
Are those bone tits?

>>919381
It's something called fat, anon. Look down and you'll find it,

>>919194
Update

I've been practicing inbetween work any chance I get.
I'm getting 100% in this test
>https://www.geoguessr.com/seterra/en-an/vgp/3800
But there aren't any facial, hand, feet etc bones included so I can't test my knowledge.
also I was mistaken on page 27 onward theres lots of bone stuff.

I might include pictures of my current level of art to make a comparission.

>>919418
Found a quiz on head skull stuff.
https://www.registerednursern.com/skull-bones-quiz-cranial-and-facial-bones/

The website also generally has a lot of anatomy quizes inside.

>>919418
you don't need to learn the bone name you need to learn how they look in real life. OMG that guy was making a joke and you fell for it.

>>915617
Anatomy for Sculptors official youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qik_lgVD1eM

3D model
https://ecorche.anatomy4sculptors.com/figure-and-torso/muscle-man

>>919418
To me It seems like you fell for something. That guy could have been memeing, but considering the amount of effort he put into samefagging to bump this thread and saying similar things in other threads makes me think he's crazy. Of course, crazy people tend to be good artists, and based on the drawing he posted, it's safe to say that he knows what he's doing. My non-crazy interpretation of his 10 step plan is to use the books he recommended to learn the form of the skeleton, then learn how the muscles attach to the skeleton and weave into each other, then understand how all of those factors create the form of the human body.

>>919486
>>919418

unless you making bone monster or get hired for mortal kobat, you'll never need this in 3d art because we can just skip to the skin. No one who is playing video games cares about the bones or inside the body system. People who look at art cant see the inside of the body.

what you are learning is useless.

>>919418
Update
Im confident with bones now and I did a little muscle stuff

>Step 3 facets of the skeleton
You mean how the bones connect and stuff?

I don't get how this will help me make cute girls but sure bro.

>>919486
I don't value my time may as well follow his schizo plan and see what happens.

>>919499
If you art mog him I will listen to you.

>>919586
you have any idea how hard it is to make a 3d buff man. This is not just going out to make a box into that shape, i have to also sculpture the model in 3d software to get that look. If i don't do that it just looks like a minecraft knockoff. You need to learn sculpture like the greeks did, if you ever want to make that fine art in 3d.

>>919586
Here is a sample of type of bodys I did before this little experiment just so I can see if I make any substantial improvements.

>It's shit
Yes thats why i'm following a schizos advice on 4chan.

So just for context I don't want hyper real daz models I'm going for the stylized look but I want some nice definition here and there kind of like comic characters I don't know if Im making much sense

>>919590
clearly you need to learn how to sculpture if you want comic book hero style. Just doing smoothing in blender tools will get you little results in body figure. Example, the hair is too smooth, no one is not to mention why you did it like that. It looks like clay man, it needs to be hair not clay.

>>919586
The reason why my plan works is that it's how I learned and I have proven that I know my shit.

Any other advice you will hear here on learning anatomy is 100% bullshit because they never post their work nor do they know anatomy on an academic level (as opposed to aesthetical level). Those losers give each other the same advice over and over again and expect that one day one of them will finally get the results they wish they will get. It's been years and they still don't understand basic shit and constantly reinforce their ignorance by restating the same moronic advice.

>You mean how the bones connect and stuff?

In Netter you will find illustrations showing the bones with a bunch of red and blue markings on it. These markings represent areas of muscle origin/insertion. If you look at these videos ((( https://www.youtube.com/user/Anatomie3DLyon/videos ))) you will see what I mean. The facets of the bones are the shapes of the bone in certain areas where the muscles connect to them.

>>919486

Here's the thing. In life you will most likely only achieve 10% of what your set out to do. So how do you get 1 million $? You make it your life goal to get 10 million $.

In art you can either aim for greatness and achieve professionalism, aim for professionalism and achieve mediocrity, or aim for mediocrity and achieve nothing.

>>919589

This is a 3D model, bro: >>916646

>>919661
>https://www.youtube.com/user/Anatomie3DLyon/videos
>>919586

Here's the English version: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9LucUID-BUjL_c8oAT3vHQ/videos

As an example check out this video on the Humerus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWPM8V7J-4A&ab_channel=3DAnatomyLyon

The facets are all those things they're listing at the bottom.

>>919661
There is still a flaw in your plan, you never told anyone know sculpting works. The model could not have been made without sculpting, moving the points leads to sharp edges which the buff man model does not have.

unless you are telling me to added so many useless shapes, mix them together and claim you know anatomy but fail at understanding basic 3d that kids understand.

>>919668
> fail at understanding basic 3d that kids understand
>moving the points leads to sharp edges

Tell me you're NGMI without telling me you're NGMI.

I can outdraw, outmodel, outsculpt any of you self-proclaimed "experts".

If you understand how music works you can make any instrument work for you. The perpetual NGMI is trapped in the whole piano vs guitar mindset. Just learn the basics then find out what instrument best fits your goal.

>>919664
Update

Pic related is waht you mean right?
Can't find it in netters the videos however have been pretty good
I've watched 3 of the videos from the channel and they are alright.

>>919757
Yes. I checked that pdf thing. They removed these (pic related) illustrations completely. No idea why. This is why I recommend buying Netter 4th Edition, whomever edited the printed atlas is not a complete retard.
You can also google "muscle insertions Netter" but the resolution of the images is poor.

>>919717
Answer the question, how did you make that model, it should be easy "Mr. I know Everything".

I bet you used Sculptris on that model or something close to it.

>>919806
>>919757
found a pdf of the 7th edition, it's good, learn from it:
https://mega.nz/file/zG431Qob#6Z1wdiphKRHLQzBEJw2dTN9IzZ1QxZvUUdZFkwTHmT0

>>919808
You're a moron.
I modeled it in Modo.
The very nature of your question tells me how completely parallel you are with the topic.

>>919814
Modo has this thing called snap types, so it still reminds up in the air on how you do a model. As i said it seems like you put a bush of shapes into one model. Using Modo Snap sure does help.

Also modo has sculpting so we back to where we started how how you did the model. I can not confirm how you did it because you refusing to answer it.

As i'm watching Modo demo reel i see a few things that can be called into questions like if you used Modo features to fix your mistakes. The "automatically mash connect" seems very sus considering the buff man can be made from shapes and automatically look like the buff man.

By far the worst thing you did is that you are spending money ($462 a year) while two people believed you. I know those two wont make a good model without sculpting, you never told them to do that so they will never try it. Why do you lie?

>>919827
It's one solid single mesh.
I'm a polygon modeler exclusively because that's how I like to do 3D.
CGI is not for you, consider finding another job. I'm not being insulting, just being truthful. I would make an analogy about how you're trying to figure out why I'm such a great guitarist by getting me to "expose" what sort of pick I use and how I hold it. But unfortunately I doubt you're capable of grasping my point.

>By far the worst thing you did is that you are spending money ($462 a year) while two people believed you. I know those two wont make a good model without sculpting, you never told them to do that so they will never try it. Why do you lie?

Tell us your IQ is room temperature without telling us your IQ is room temperature.

really good podcast

>>919811
Update
Yeah this one is far better.

Its actually way more complicated than I thought, to make it easy on myself I've decided to work on one section at a time, right now Im doing neck stuff

>>919849
Now i know how you fell at 3d modeling, Autodesk def says: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/maya/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/Maya/files/GUID-7941F97A-36E8-47FE-95D1-71412A3B3017-htm.html

So yes i am right you either

A) Put together a bunch of shapes together

B) Copy some body artwork and claim you know everything.

>I'm a polygon modeler exclusively

>>919915
This is why you shouldn't trust crazy people in 4chan. took me this long to find out how he did it, he is not an expert. He proclaim he only works on single mesh, he wont help you on other topics, this is not the way you want to follow.

>>919940
If someone doing polygon modelling amazes you to the point of incredulity then maybe it's time to stop 3D and move on with your life.

>>919943
>Modo: Modo has the Enable Deformers checkbox clear (disabled) by default. If you are working with one of these tabs when you add a deformer, you do not see any effect.

>>919915
>>919811
Exposed, this guy does not know how the human body works. you been dupe.

>>919958
pwned to the point of incoherency
you love to see it

>>919943
After looking at netter and generally llooking online for how a certain muscle works I then draw it onto a skeleton, I think I might attempt to actually do this in 3d now.

I've been learning for days and barely opend up blender.

I have to say I'm starting to see the wisdom in your process, how long did it take to go through everything?

>>920032
Forgot to link

Once i have finished with the neck
I'll move onto the shoulders -> chest -> stomach ->legs etc

After that ill move to the head.

>>919974
You said >Learn all the bones of the skeleton by heart.

You can not claim you know it by heart if you require deformers to be on. You are a fraud.

>>920039
"Deformers" have no bearing on studying Netter. Not only that but you don't even have a clue what a deformer even is.

You are a retard. Just stop.

>>920032
>how long did it take to go through everything?

Years because I have a medical background and had to go through the whole of Netter. A targeted approach on just the skeleton and muscles will get you there much quicker.

There are also great apps like Anatomyka:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6rcVBs7EF8&

The downside is that the 3D models are based on a real scan. Netter has an artistic eye so he knows what areas to emphasize and what details to ignore. When you're looking at the Anatomyka model at the bone facets for instance it will appear random to the untrained eye.

>>920050
Will reading Netter get me a cute nurse gf?

>>920050
Oh so besides not telling people that you suck at knowing how a human body looks, you also never told anyone you spent years in medicare.

Look we are not you, we will not spent years to become doctors. We will not spent years learning one body type, we will not spent $500 a month on some expensive software that you can afford because you are a doctor to over charge your potions.

We can never be you because you are a dumb rich person who does not value us nor care about us. Your ego comments are clear evidence of your actions to us and this community.

>>920050
>medical background
I'm fine with anatomy for sculptors book, I'm not performing a surgery here, I'm creating an art

>>920050
Update
pic related is me putting some of the neck anatomy knowledge to work.
Not refined but I like it.

A while ago it was just random forms that I could barely understand but putting names to the shapes helps.

The sculpt I posted previously I can now immediatley tell where some of the mistakes are.

I'm no longer skeptical about anons anatomy plan.

>>920105
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-renaissance-tradition-cadavers-drawing-classes-alive
>Renaissance master Leonardo da Vinci, the professor said, systematically dissected human bodies in order to improve his figure drawing skills.

Sorry but creating "an art" requires actually studying.

>>920102
>Look we are not you, we will not spent years to become doctors. We will not spent years learning one body type, we will not spent $500 a month on some expensive software that you can afford because you are a doctor to over charge your potions.

I kept telling you this job is not for the likes of you so leave.

bye

>>920112
luckily I don't have to dissect anyone, I can just go on youtube and watch all kinds of dissected bodies

>>920112
i said we, as in many of the people in /3/, we do not study actual body figures, we do body figures that either look human or are in a different class of species.

You lack the creativity to make monsters, simple objects and other works that are not human. SO you are not special you are just a 3d modeler who only makes humans.

>>920109
Update
Today I decided to study mostly facial muscles and skull stuff, Its not entirely obvious but I spent most of the time in this sculpt adding in the muscles first before doing the rest and I must say it feel a lot better to sculpt this way.

I have also been using kenhub along side netter as a way to practice recognising each muscle.

>>920250
this looks cartoonish, make a realistic character

>>920250
>>920301
I told you that learning how to sculpture is way better than whatever dumb thing that faker told you. Do you think greeks learn from a book? No they learn it by themselves and try to master it.

video can give you a look into how they did it: https://youtu.be/2GNsIn3JbIU?t=301

>>920380
you still here?
your inferiority complex is still showing lol

>>920386
look what you did to that person, he copy a picture from it and believed it may help. No it didn't help, you are failing him, he has little experience in 3d modeling while both of us have more experience in the arts.

You cant make him better by making him learn some dumb books you recommend, it's never that easy.

>>920387
you are a crazy person
this place is not for you
seek /adv/

>>920050
You probably shouldn't be giving people advice on how to learn anatomy if it took you multiple years to do so. Medical anatomy and artistic anatomy are different things, and an artist doesn't even need to take a single year to learn anatomy.

Update
I've been learning about delts,infraspin, teres minor/major and the pectoralis major.

I feel fairly confident about my placement of these muscles.

I think I'll make a bust soon but im a little too tired so maybe later
>>920301
I dont want my art to go in that direction but if its for practice sure, I suppose fixing the proportions would do the trick

>>920404
2 years is the duration of the anatomy curriculum, moron.

>an artist doesn't even need to take a single year to learn anatomy.

For you specifically it's going to take your entire lifetime and then some.
It's genuinely fascinating how stupid people like you are. You keep complaining how much it hurts hitting your head against a wall. Your betters tell you "if you want it to stop hurting then stop hitting the wall with your head". Then you go full retard saying "NO! IT'S NEVER THAT EASY! YOU CAN'T JUST STOP HITTING THE WALL WITH YOUR HEAD!".

If you were to take the IQ test from Idiocracy, you would fail.

>>920406
You are probably speaking to cris right now, relax dude.

>>920406
>You keep complaining how much it hurts hitting your head against a wall.
But I haven't complained. Learning anatomy was easy, so I would naturally not have a reason to complain. The problem with your learning method is that, even though it does work, it is unnecessarily complex for the purposes of being an artist, and you are sending beginners into a time sink.

>>920408
>Learning anatomy was easy
post your work

>>920410
This

>>920405
plot twist, every human body is different, a simple google search can tell you that. What you learning to copy from a book that made it for medicare is not going to help you long term.

I dont need to state this but a tall person has more meat and bones than a kid. The book and reference lacks this information and has we keep telling you, this guy has zero understanding on people characteristics.

>>920406
We don't care if you know the human body by name and how they work. We artist can not learn to make the perfect body. There is a mistake in your model -> >>919943

Clavicle is too far, you don't have a acromion, this also goes into shoulder (just looking at >>916646 ) which is not a thing a normal human body is made to build for.

We don't have any staggering skin, our skin is 100% connected to form with the muscles, we are not squirrels.

belly button i'll ignored because it's always different with each person.

You give it no nipples, it would have been ok to have it a small tiny one but you refuse or forgot it existed.

This is just me but you show zero care about vians, when someone has buff as that character moves, there is sometimes vains showing. you don't need to be showy but it's clear you made it without care.

Your not the best artist in human body, no one is, 2 years? I spent nearly 13 years from middle school to today to know how a muscle man looks. I spent years learning nudism and being naked with other people, learning different software like Maya to awful ones like Blender. I remember when Modo was not a subscription based software.

When i say i know you are a fake, i know you are doing something wrong with modeling.

>>920410
lmao are you implying it's not easy? Maybe learning anatomy was hard for you because of the study method you used. I most certainly will not post my work because I know a person as crazy as you will hunt me down and try to get me fired for being an evil 4chudder. What's convenient is that there's a bunch of other people on the internet who recommend better study strategies than you do who's work you can look at. Easy information is at your fingertips, but some of you on this board are too old or too stupid to to google shit.

>>920414
>>920416
TL;DR

now post your work

>>918745
kek, you must be refering to your own post, as we all know leonardo studied and drew cadavers.
BUT WHEN HE PATINTED, HE DID NOT DRAW A BABY JESUS SKELLY AND PROCEED TO ADD LAYERS
lol underage

>>920431

post your work

>>920429
you cant rush art expectedly one that looks like a buff man, it took romans 3 years to carve the smoothness and lifelike of what you see today.

Still this is not something you care and i have other more important work to do. Since ian hit fl and other states i do have some time but won't make a new project until maybe the end of the month. This is because greeks consider the body "secular and sacred" and i also follow that rule.

>>920455
tell me you masturbate too much without telling me you masturbate too much

>>920405
Update
Learned more about the torso and back.

I will try and apply this knowledge to a sculpt.
I'll do a masculine one so the muscles are more obvious.

>>920506
Update

Here is my latest torso sculpt soem areas (particualrly the traps) are lacking but all in all I like it.

Feels good to be able to name a muscle as I do it

I think i'll move over to arms/hands next

>>920601
Ribs look a bit too wide and the torso is too flat as a result imo

>>920601
You're not copying this from a picture are you? You did this without any help, you'll never learn if you just copy stuff, just as a 2d artist will never learn to draw if they trace the outline.

>>920608
Thanks anon I'll reduce its width and see what happens
>>920610
>He thinks I traced
You're going to make my ego too huge anon.

>>920613
Good luck, you're doing a pretty good job, be sure to post results

>>920616
I do like the shape much more, anway im going to move on to arm studying

>beginners larping as pros giving advice
Nobody here is credible in giving out critique for something as complex as 3d anatomy. Used to frequent the blender discord and the guy giving out feedback leaked his twitter showing how fucking bad he was at anatomy. It is not even funny. 2d is way more forgiving and translates VERY WELL when you sculpt. I suggest you guys to fucking draw bridgeman or michael hampton. Kek even doing master studies of certain portions of sculptures in 3d. Scott Eaton is a very good teacher for this. You can fucking pirate it off some russian warez site. This is why you see illustrators picking up sculpting to further there knowledge about anatomy form and perspective. In short don't study anatomy, draw/sculpt what you see provided you have good reference.

>>920624
You know the rules anon, art mog him.

>>920624
Art mog me anon

>>920624
You ngmi faggots will do literakky anything but 3d, same shit as retards drawing boxes all day in /ic.

>>920624
>Scott Eaton
He talks about anatomy as well.

>>920630
>>920632
>>920634
this is the aforementioned work of a beg larping as a pro anatomy artist giving feedback.

>>920643

>>920622
Look at the shape of the ribcage. The ribs are narrower at the top and wider at the bottom.

>>920622
Also a very common mistake have to do with the abs.

Most people have a 6-pack meaning 3 pairs of rectus abdominalis muscles which are distinct (between the pectoralis and belly button), then the 4th (between the belly button and pelvis) .

The first pack starts just below the pectoralis. There is huge variation of this pair from person two person depending on the shape of the ribcage and the pectoralis. In some people it's even difficult to spot. Behind them are ribs (more like cartilage but not that important) which distort the shape of the muscle and sometimes make it hard to develop.

The second and third pack between the ribcage and belly button. These are large distinct muscles visible in all people.

The ending of the rectus abdominalis is hidden by fat in most people. On bodybuilders with low fat percentage you can see this muscle. Sometimes this muscle is split into two packs. This is rare. The people who have this variation can develop 8-pack abs (provided the first pair is visible too of course).

I attached a picture with different illustrations from Delavier. He uses real-life people as examples. You can see the large variation of the first rectus pair and the 4th pair.

>>920613
the way you avoiding answering me and everyone else just tell us that you are 100% copying from that dumb book that you are reading.

Don't think we dont have access to the same book, it's clear that you are copying the picture, we know Xray in 3d exist (even in blender) and we know you have zero understanding on the legs and arm so you never went that far.

the more you lie to yourself the more bad your become at modeling. We dont care if you lie to us, we know when you do, it's you who is hurting yourself.

>>920684
lol
0/10
troll harder

>>920693
It's very hard to know which of you is it, you either the fake 3d guy who only models humans or the blender guy with zero experience. We are helping and if you refuse to help and follow the dumb book by copying it, not learning it, then you are the real loser in this, not us, we will be fine.

>>920701
>we

lmao

>>920684
>>920693

probably the phoneposting sculpt anon samefagging.

>>920624
bro /ic/ and /3/ are both 95% total amateurs giving shitty critiques/larping as successful pros. out of ~100 posters on either board, literally only 3 or 4 are actually any good and they NEVER go to beginner/advice threads

>>920622
Update

Did some arm anatomy, I'm thinking about incorporating anatomy tracing into my training as well.

Later on I'll do a torso/neck/arm sculpt

>>920666
Thank you I will remember this in my next sculpt.

>>920701
I did not post that, I wont be responding to posts critical of anatomy anon until they show me their own art.

>>920806
Pic

>>920806
Think anon think, anyone can post anything in the internet, a picture is worthless when anyone can post a random buff man from somewhere. You should have ask for something more like portfolio or credit from a team. What you doing isn't working.

>>920815
fuck off criss

>>920806
Update

Did a sculpt with arm/neck and torso anatomy.

Certain bony land marks were not as defined as they could have been and I'm having trouble translating semi important muscles like the Coracobrachialis.

I think thats a problem with the pose in which I sculpt, perhaps a t pose would be better, idk.

At this point its translating the data I already have into a sculpt that troubles me.

I'll spend more time studying what I already know and perhaps doing more frequent sculpts.

>>920844
Also I forgot that the clavicle head of the pec is not attached properly to the clavicle xD

>>920844
Update I've been using 3d models now alongside the usual method of study, perhaps now I can fix my embarassing triceps.

Its also been a trip being able to look at the model and immediatley say the name of any muscle.

>>920945
anon again, copying will not make you a better modeler and learning the names of useless stuff that you'll never need in 3d modeling will not help you make better models. Stop copying people work and actually learn how they are done without those things.

>>920945
I like the pectoarlis and clavicle of this one, the muscle definition on the arms is a bit of a fail but im happy with how things are.

I'm going to be learning about forearms and hands next.

My biggest focus however willl be to get some nice deltoids this time.

>>920972
Keep it up.
Being able to identify issues and fixing them means you're progressing.
It will be a while before you will see some results aesthetics-wise. Right now it's obvious to anyone you're overly focusing on certain areas while ignoring the rest (you fixed the pecs issue but the ribcage is still weird). No matter how good you become something will always be off because the body isn't separated into parts, it's a holistic mechanism. But this is the only way to learn, little by little, area by area, and when you've got a good grasp on everything you can attempt a full figure. That's the real test of your knowledge.

>>920997
Thanks for the encoruagement I'll work on my rib cage next

>>920997
He's not learning hes copying, the mistakes were from him copying the book not his own. A real human mistake is forgetting they exist, misplacement, unevenly fat, etc.

The more you encourage him to copy, the more he is not learning.

>>920972
I've been loooking at proko alongside normal anatomy stuff.

Yesterday and today I was just making sure my ribcage was shaped better.

I've also been learning more about how back muscles should work with the scapula also learning more about the forearm, i'll do an actual sculpt soon.

>>921116
I'm happy with the torso and general proporitons of this sculpt even the back does not look too bad.

I struggled heavily however on the serratus anterior and the thoric section of the external oblique.

I was doing the forearms but I they turned out really bad so I removed them.

>>921148
oopsie

>>916544
there's a difference between wanting to create and wanting to create technically

anyone can create, few can do it technically.

>>921149
Update

Just been working on my understanding of fore arm anatomy
Its way harder than rest

>>921409
I honestly never once saw a 3D model that got the wrist right. They always treat it like a ball joint but it's actually 3 joints together (if you count the metacarpalsXcarpals as one joint). I remember trying for days to get the pivot point just right so as to get the anatomically correct bend. I knew what it should look like but nothing I did gave me the result I was after.
This video here explains it perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZIH4fi5M0&ab_channel=3DAnatomyLyon

It might not be helpful when modelling but if you plan on rigging as well I assure you that 100% of riggers out there have no idea of any of the stuff that video shows. Now you know why motion capture always fails when dealing with hand movement and placement: it's the fault of the rig itself.

>>921414
you dont understand how rigging works, we cant morph the skin in 3d unless you want to waste company time and money.

>>921409
Yes it's not perfect because it's never perfect in the shape you want. Each human being has a different shape, there is no perfect example, you have to pick a flaw and allow the character to be personalized. this is where you are failing.

>>921149
up your game, it's cool what you're doing but you need to push your shapes more, really define them. develop your observation skills. think fourth dimensionally.

>>921418
>we cant morph the skin in 3d

0/10

dumbest troll on the planet lol

>>921409

Update
I'm very happy with how the back and the serratus anterior turned out the bicep tricep area looks better than before.

The forearm area, I literally forgot half the muscles as I was doing this, so I should probably spend more time on it.

Especially since it ruins the fore arm/ upper arm connect at the elbow.

Theres also somthing off to me about the pecs shape.

>>921414
Its really helpful seeing how it moves, the wrist has been driving me insane for a while

>>921443
you are the troll, even Arc System could not get "GUY" and Goku muscles to morph correctly. A real professional couldn't do it, neither can you.

>>921446
Why you can never make the perfect arm.
https://youtu.be/yhGjCzxJV3E?t=1957

>>921436
Mr. anatomy anon, did you get a job yet?

>>921470
lmao, this thread is living rent-free in your head
You don't even know what "morph" or "deformer" means, dude. I love how low-IQ people thing they can trick their betters.

>>921446
>Theres also somthing off to me about the pecs shape.

It's because you sculpted the deltoids and pecs as one mesh and the arms as a separate mesh. The pectorals are attached to the arms so you can't really work on the two separately. This is why I said that the true test is sculpting a whole figure.

Also the pecs that you sculpted is 100% better than anything that anyone else made here on /3/. It's amazing to see how just 2 weeks of study was sufficient to BTFO everyone on this board haha.

>>921473
> the true test is sculpting a whole figure
I'll get to that its just wasier to study muscles one bit at a time.

> It's amazing to see how just 2 weeks of study was sufficient to BTFO everyone on this board haha
Thanks to you :)

>>921473

Dude are you fucking new? Your projection is showing. This guy >>921436 has BTFO everyone in here by not posting anything and coming back months later and everytime he does he gets even better than before. This is why >>921446 should stop posting their blog unless he wants to get burnt out like the phonesculpting anon.

>>921436
Excellent Écorché mind explaining pic related to me?

Where the thoracic part of the external obliques and the serratus anterior connect is this how they are meant to be?

>>921473
You fool, Modo names things different just like Maya and Photoshop.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/maya/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2022/ENU/Maya-Modeling/files/GUID-DAC2AA0B-3E70-4F5C-A656-1219219092A1-htm.html

This is deform in maya:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/maya/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2022/ENU/Maya-Modeling/files/GUID-C1B5085D-3229-4BE8-989E-95C460ADB79C-htm.html

they are not the same, you faker. Also Modo deform works differently:

This is Maya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdD97SlzVyU

This is modo: https://learn.foundry.com/modo/content/help/pages/animation/working_with_deformers.html

Just so your dumb head understands Maya just applies it, Modo does not and requires stuff to be able to use it.

This is what morph is in Maya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmNmdRKtcSs

This is modo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g6iMosfvYI

Not the same. Your 2 years of learning Modo and human 3D does not help you in real world 3d industry. You are now a joke the moment you name these wrong.

>>921483
bwahahahaha

that ecorche is not even passable: he added non existent muscles, jaw shape is wrong, anterior deltoid is fucked up, medial deltoid is inaccurate, wrong pectorals insertion, wrong sterno-clavicular joint shape, wrong skull shape (he added his own "spin" to every bone for some reason lol), wrong SCM origin insertion, wrong sternum shape, doesn't understand where to even place the serratus anterior muscles, he forgot to sculpt the muscles the jaw, he [;aced the hyoid bone where the trachea should be.

months you say?
ahahahahaha

>>921490
>This is deform in maya:
>Also Modo deform works differently:

"deformer" = noun
"deform" = verb
noun =/= verb

literally BTFO'd to the point where you forgot basic grammar, ahahahaha

>>921499
This is not a grammar problem noob, this is the software developers who wanted to name it like that. You fail again, your 2 years is showing, you just as bad as that guy, i bet you also just copy body shape and hope it looks good. Don't forget you never added nipples and added too much bone to the shoulder that it looks like the character had a disease.

You are not better, you are a noob.

>>921499
Lol do you even underatand what you are saying? Pyw something tells me you are juat Cris in disguise.

>>921509
I did post my work several times but here's something just for you, this is what an actual skull is supposed to look like. And as far as the other error he's made, just look at the thread image, it shows this guy's mistakes clear as day. How come you did not see it? Did you type your comment using braille or something?

I like how my breakdown was so beyond you that you couldn't even google fact-check me. It was so out of your depth that you didn't even know what to even search for. This is what a prideful refusal to study gets you: eternal NGMI membership. But don't feel bad, it's a huge club with lots of members, I'm sure you'll find some quality friends there lol.

>>921513
That's not your work though.

>>921514
cope

>>921515
>using modo

Damn, Flippednormals really are faggots posting on a dead board.

>>921446
I've been working on my torso and back knowledge and especially the serratus anterior.

I've also been reviewing the muscles of the forearm.

My hope is to get some nice definition in the next sculpt and if all goes will I'll move over to the legs.

>Why the legs?
It will become easier to judge proportions if they are there.
>>921499
>doesn't understand where to even place the serratus anterior muscles
Could you draw ontop of his model where abouts they should be?

>>921519

>>921513
Everytime you and that blender guy encounter the topic of copying or using someone else work you both avoid it. Just be honest, you both are copying the same book/pictures and have zero experience on modeling.

>>921530
nta but while his critique is correct, anyone not with a hint of anatomy knowledge can assert the same feedback given actual reference and readily available anatomy jargon (which I will demonstrate in a second) however the way he interjects himself doesn't make him sound authentic at all.

>>921513
Btw that modo skull is not even fucking correct. The mandible shape is too rounded, the anterior nasal spine is absent, the supraorbital margin is not prominent. Worst of all that is not even yours. Please cut the larp you are giving real industryfags a bad rep and let this be a lesson to anyone serious enough to learn anatomy to leave this fucking board if you value your time at all.

>>921537
>Btw that modo skull is not even fucking correct. The mandible shape is too rounded, the anterior nasal spine is absent, the supraorbital margin is not prominent. Worst of all that is not even yours.

It was literally modelled after a CT-scan of an actual person.

Let's test your anatomy knowledge to see if you yourself are not larping. What am I pointing at in pic related?

>>921539
lol, forgot pic

>>921537
>the anterior nasal spine is absent
>Worst of all that is not even yours
that was a frozen SubD version, here's the actual low-rez sculpt:

All of you silly anatomy chuds are wasting your time trying to perfect your anatomy knowledge. Why not take the old masters pill and fuck things up however you want? No one will notice except a bunch of pedantic autists trying to get a rush of superiority by pointing out minor flaws that don't affect the quality of one's work.

>>921544
>No one will notice except a bunch of pedantic autists trying to get a rush of superiority by pointing out minor flaws that don't affect the quality of one's work.

While the hoi polloi will never notice or be able to appreciate the level of anatomical accuracy I put in my work, this is not why I'm advocating for anatomical knowledge.

The entire 3D industry has been using a flawed approach to human (and animal) anatomy for decades. This flawed approach is what creates the necessity of stuff like blend-shapes, corrective morphs, rigging issues, weight maps struggle, even muscle simulation, etc. This in turn will sink a massive amount of time and resources into fixing the issues that arise from that first flawed step in creating any character. Major studios do not care to change their approach because major studios don't care about budgetary issues. Their approach (for decades) has been to just throw money at the problem. If it works why change it?
I do not have those kind of resources, nobody really does. So I need to be able to find a different approach than what these studios do. This is why every step in the pipeline needs to be perfected, so it doesn't create issues later on, which in turn will eat up all your time and resources.

Like I explained previously with the wrist. Just watching that 3 minute video would have saved countless hours into sculpting corrective shapes and would have made mocap data easier to clean.

>old masters pill

No. This is a poison pill. Old masters need to be considered sub-par by modern standards. If you can't surpass them, why even bother? "I can do better" is what drives progress not "boy, those old masters sure were great, I hope that someday I'll reach one tenth of their skill".

These old masters studied anatomy in medical schools on actual corpses. And Michelangelo was sup-par when even compared to his contemporaries. He's propped up for the same exact reason why LGBTQP are propped up today: homos control the MSM.

Is there a good manual or tutorial on shoulder/arm/hand rigging?
I have issues when it comes to bending, topology fucks up on elbow/wrist parts.

>>921547
Actual schizo moment

>>921547
Holy shit dude, care to enlighten us with some of your work? Surely you are a well established character artist yourself.

>>921541
>low rez sculpt
Fucking knew it this guy is a hack. Doesn't even know what sculpt is. Listen here nigger, what you refer to is a low-res retopologized base mesh.

>>921575
sculpt = noun
sculpting = verb

you have no idea that there's a difference between nouns and verbs
how are you even a real person? ahahahahaha

>>921576
Doesn't change the fact that what that schizo anon refered to as a low resolution sculpt is in fact just a box modeled skull.

>>921580
He probably doesn't even know how to sculpt

>>921580

you are replying to the modofag
>>921576
>>921581

>>921580
lmao
Anything with three dimensions can be referred to as a "sculpt" because that's how words work.

You NGMI's are so fucking stupid that in order to "prove me wrong" you have to resort to changing basic definitions of the English language so you don't look like a bunch of retards. The eternal NGMI can't even shitpost without exposing himself as a mouth-breather ahahaha.

>>921581
I even mentioned I'm a polygon modeler. You're acting as if sculpting is some elite-level technique. Any moron can sculpt. You losers are so butthurt you try to cling to the thinnest thread you can think of. It's hilarious.

>>918138
>tfw will newer get a big neck gf
why even try

>>921587
>Anything with three dimensions can be referred to as a "sculpt"
>I even mentioned I'm a polygon modeler.

You're not making sense anon, just post your work, that'll shut all criticisms down.

>>921590
>You're not making sense anon, just post your work, that'll shut all criticisms down.

I did and there are no criticisms. There is only cope.

Brehs, why is that forearms and the back of the legs are part that my brain can not comprehend? It driving me crazy. Back of the legs, I can picture in my brain how to do it, I guess I lack some practice.
BUT THE FOREARMS. I don't have any picture in my mind when I try to think about its anatomy. What to do

>>921596
that shitty skull? is that all you got to show.

>>921547
Didn't he proof to us that you used that same skull to tell us that you didn't make it. I bet you just smooth it out on Modo tools and try to change something to fit the image of the book you keep referring to us.

Yet again you avoid the topic of whether you did or did not copy. Now it's becoming clear that you just bought and used models.

>>921605
>>921609

NGMI: "Post your work!
>posts work
NGMI: "NOOO! It's not your work!! If it was your work then I would have to admit I got BTFO'd like a retard. NGMI's sisters, help!"


the cope is real

>>921621
Just answer the question, this is why it makes you look so sus. Also that blender guy has to answer too.

>>921635
Lol don't bother guy was full of shit to begin with. The mockingly retarded pics he uses already gave it away.

>>921635
>>921446
Wait you need proof that Im sculpting myself?

>>921642
it's always seems like you just copying from the book or something because of the cut offs. No one sculpting would just make a perfectly cut line in important body parts. So it's very odd on why you doing such things. It's natural to believe you are making body parts one by one and using blender boolan + subdivision + remash.

>>921650
>Cutoffs
I dont sculpt what I have not studied
And of course I use references thats only sensible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAer2j43IF0

Anyway i'll do another sculpt later on today.

>>921635
I already posted my work several times, maybe read the thread?

notice how the NGMI's started losing his shit and went full retard
funniest shit I've seen

>>921650
>it's always seems like you just copying from the book or something because of the cut offs. No one sculpting would just make a perfectly cut line in important body parts. So it's very odd on why you doing such things. It's natural to believe you are making body parts one by one and using blender boolan + subdivision + remash.
>it's always seems
>you just copying
>why you doing
>blender boolan
>remash

lmao, you must be a darkie
boy, this thread is not for you
now GIT!

>>921472
not yet anon, not yet.
>>921489
they're pretty flat in my model but yeah.
>>921499
You're reading too much into it, you can't expect to learn everything from a book full of diagrams, I'd trade anatomical accuracy for creative agency any day, and well, at the end of the day I'm not trying to create a medical illustration, I'm just having fun with the tools at my disposal, exploration of shape, colors, gesture, etc.
All those things do not necessarily need to abide by any rules, unless it is required by design... which is not my case here.

We all have a long way to go, and I for one am not in any rush to get there, your critique is spot on, my anatomy still has tons of issues I'm sure, but that will get better with time and practice, and I enjoy the process the most, so I try to enjoy that. where would be the fun in being perfect all the time? we wouldn't have these threads if everyone was perfect.

>>921715
>I'd trade anatomical accuracy for creative agency any day

This is a false dialectic because you can have both.

"It's meant to look that way" is what every talentless person with an art degree says after their own family laughed at their work.

You have a good eye for shapes, learning actual true-to-life anatomy will only increase your skill level.

>>921722
I really hope so anon, anatomy is a very hard subject, but we'll get there hopefully.

General critics pls. I don't know what to do to make the bake of the legs look kind of right.

>>921658
That's not how you learn anything, just like people who copy lines in other people's work, you'll won't understand how it was done, you only understand how to copy it.

>>921682
He just admit it to it and i don't use blender, we can clearly find any information on blender easy. Plus i don't know how he does it so i'm just assuming the easiest possible way.

>>921715
How long have you been doing 3d for?

>>921715
Gmi unlike the modofag.

>>921735
git !

>>921733
since 2017

>>921658
Update
>Later on today
Anyway here is a sculpt
I feel very confident with most of the muscles even for the forearm but im having touble with how I should rotate it and generally translating that knowledge to the sculpt.

I think I'm going to try doing smaller forearm sculpt until I feel confident.

>>921823
no, stop updating your shit frequently and only come back with a complete full anatomy sculpt. This thread is not going anywhere.

>>921830
NGMI trash: Post your work!
>posts work
NGMI trash: Nooooo!1! stop posting your work!!!

>>921907
If you keep posting work with no significant progress don't even bother posting your work.

>>921911
That was not me.
Anyway I prefer to post anything I do for documentation purposes and its become a part of my routine.

>Full body sculpt
If I did that I'd only post like once a month or somthing which is more exciting to see the big gains but it does not quite explain how I improve.

But you are right I'm stagnating so i'm moving on to the legs starting with the quads

>>921981
oops

>>921981
Also forgot.
https://anatomy.app/encyclopedia/rectus-femoris

For a lot of the muscles it comes with anterior, medial and lateral views.

>>921983
your not proving the book works if all you do is just copy from the book.

totally agree

>>918811
>listening to a podcast is not learning
>btw do everything except sculpt
The guy uses anatomy for sculptors which you shat on. Why should we go back to drawing and rote memorizing anatomy instead of putting in the zbrush mileage and learning by sculpting each part? It's not going to warrant the opportunity cost for everyone. All this really does is function as a recipe for procrastination and driving pathological perfectionists insane and never hitting deadlines because they'll work all day on perfecting each little striation in an area that will never be seen. But at the end of the day it's all relative to your goals. Pavlovich didn't even know anatomy when he was working at studios. That was handled by a different department,

>>921470
Good video. Very needed in a thread where posters think being an artist and a camera is one in the same.

>>922256
You are a faggot. Fundies don't go away no matter what medium you use. You surely can't even do both. Hours put into sculpting = hours put into drawing.

>>922260
>>922256
pyw

>>922305
Sorry we don't use python code, we are artist

What do you guys think about how this wrap turned out? would you change anything about the shapes/anatomy thus far?

>>922330
>hat do you guys think about how this wrap turned out? would you change anything about the shapes/anatomy thus far?
forgot the pic
this gonna be my first fully textured head btw

Here's another semi stylized, meant to be inspired by the newer final fantasy games. I'll be cleaning these up on mari and applying a displacement on zbrush, really hope they come together nicely.

>>922317
the only person that laughs at your jokes is you

>>922331
Idk man just post on a discord like exp points where all the "industry pros" are.

>>922331
>Model name: "realistic model tools"
>Eyes are hidden for no good reason
YOU FAKE

>>922335
Google what you type next time old man or ar you too scare of google.

>>922390
>Google what you type next time old man or ar you too scare of google.

never short of amazing how dumb this guy is

>>922390
Modofag admit you are nothing more than a larp. Nobody here works in the industry. Anyone who says otherwise is a larp. End of story. Stfu unless you have any more unsolicited anatomy critiques to pull out off your anus.

>>922381
oh man i wish i didn't hate discord but i kinda do, I tried doing that a few times and some people even dm me, and I just freak out haha, i choose to be here with the crazies.

>>922390
>Model name: "realistic model tools"
it's named realistic white male tools, and that's to keep things organized, because I keep several ztools per project, high poly, low poly, iterations, xyz zwrap, eyes, etc, but i doubt you would know the first thing about the basic steps of production ready models.
>Eyes are hidden for no good reason
placeholders, and I'm trying to show how the zwrap turned out, so the eyes in this case would just be getting on the way.

but you keep posting your cringy reaction pictures, I'm sure that'll get you somewhere.

>>922400
no one in their right mind would ever call a model a tool unless it is an actual tool model. No there is no such thing as production ready models, you mistaken "placeholders" with actual in game models.

Keep being scared of google, old man, you once again fail to search for basic words.

>>922409
>no one in their right mind would ever call a model a tool unless it is an actual tool model
>there is no such thing as production ready models

wtf? lol man you're deranged, are you like google translating this shit?

>>922381
>>922400
welp in any case I'll be asking for feedback there, kinda feel like I've ran into a brick wall recently.

>>922413
Anon, no one names their models like that. We may have believed you if you randomly name it but no, it's clear that a machine done it. I also don't need to remind everyone that warping in Zbrush is impossible, anyone who has done it always face with bad results.

You do not have enough polygones to make a model look natural thus you show us awful examples of it. (eyelids near close, chopped parts of the head, trying to fill in hair but you cant because it's 2D, etc).

A basic google search can tell you from many sources on how impossible it is to do such thing.

Ten steps and modofag produces the least impressive skull in the thread with a weird caved in area around the zygomaticofrontal suture and some blob flap for the mastoid process. And people even fell for this troll that uses excuses that don't apply to a subdivided zbrush demo skeleton. Anatomical accuracy indeed.
>>921540
Dens

>>922427
>weird caved in area around the zygomaticofrontal suture
> that uses excuses that don't apply to a subdivided zbrush demo skeleton
>blob flap for the mastoid process

I guess an actual CT scan of an actual human is not "anatomically accurate" lmao

post your work
(and no, you can't use "python" as an excuse lol)

>>922435
You think that's some super secret medical data you only have access to? I've seen CT scans before. I have copies of my own as well. Most importantly I've seen real skulls.
>While the hoi polloi will never notice or be able to appreciate the level of anatomical accuracy I put in my work
Your teeth are little more than scaled cylinder block ins shaped with a soft select function. They just look like mini versions of your mastoid process. Even youtube pajeets know that's not how teeth look like.

At the end of the day, there's no perfected level of accuracy because you're not even using the right tools to create an organic object and it just ends up looking like an incomplete zbrush block in.

>>922484
>it's shit cause it doesn't look EXACTLY like how I want it to look

larper, post your work

>>922497
That's an actual skull from medical devices, you never said how we should make our work.

>>922507
post.
your.
work.
faggot.

>>919943
where is this from, I'm studying topology as an artlet

>>915617
this is gay and lame
the whole point of drawing is observation
not how to turn things into spheres or some shit

OP's premise is trash, so ops content is trash

>>922515
ALso using medical devices takes years to learn, checkmate faker

>>922521
we learn he was faking it and it's a model from someone else.

>>922643
post
your
work

it's way easier than making offtopic sperg posts

DO IT!
Don't let your dreams be dreams!

>>922644
again no one, not even you said how we should do it, how it will be made and how something should e used. So by def that picture: >>922484

Is a real 3D skull by a professional, checkmate

>>922664
Excuses, excuses.

just

post

YOUR

work

>>922667
you cant make people do anything for you, you must accept that and i dont want to hear anything from you after you failed to understand basic 3D modeling.

>>922764
>you cant make people do anything for you

even if I had a gun to your head or were to bribe you with 1 million $ you still couldn't post your work because, as we all figured out, there is no "work"

you are nothing more than a larper with an inferiority complex

>>922768
You'll cry about it being fake or something like that guy who posted a 3D scan of a real skull. You can't win, you already lost.

>>922643
Bro, Im just trying to add more examples to my topology references of muscles.

What the fuck is going on in this thread, this fucking board is too slow to have all this shit throwing. I can gather advice quicker by skimming agdg every day or two instead of hopping in this slow motion shit show once a month. The only decent thread seems to be CWIP.

At this rate I'm gonna be forced to go to discords and have to deal with trannies.

>>922779
Has people have told you, copying from pictures are not going to help you in 3D modeling. You have to learn to do it correctly and accept the flaws in your art. There is no such thing as perfect body muscle or art, every art in history has been flaw.

>>922779
A single schizo is enough to shit up a board as slow as this one.

>>922812
post your work, darkie

>>922858
We had this delate now we fight (yes delate is a real word: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/delate))

>>922812
I agree with this. I use real anatomy references primarily but when my brain cant figure out certain topology puzzles looking how other people solved them can cause a mental breakthrough much faster.

>>922918
>learning anatomy = worst way to learn anatomy
>copying other people's methods = mental breakthrough

this board is just terrible

>>915722
>learn muscular insertions before the muscles
Kek. Also I asked a couple of veteran doctors I know. I have no lack of personal on demand access to them. They also think this is redundant and they don't remember a good deal of muscular insertions BECAUSE THEY DON'T DEAL WITH THEM. Your spiel about biomechanics and insertions only apply to sports medicine and orthopedic surgeon. They said you are a textbook example of an ovexcited greenhorn medical student who just crammed for an exam and will forget the countless factoids because you won't even use them just like all the irrelevant unused shit forgotten from undergrad. Luckily the familial docs also have relatives and parents who were master painters that also worked teaching as professors. What's relevant to both groups is SURFACE ANATOMY especially in women where you can barely see any underlying muscular form, let alone the skinless form. You're looking for dimples, knowing the sharp point of the elbow is your ulna's olecranon (forearm) and the side sticking out is a different bone (lateral epicondyle of humerus.)

>Proportions change with focal length, camera angle, movement, etc. Art is about learning how to trick the viewer's eye into seeing what you want them to see and not about following a specific set of unalterable rules. Changing proportions from shot to shot is what great animators/artists do.
Then you learn/practice perspective. You learn to draw the face at different angles and see how the placement of elements like the nose change in relation to your eyes when you tilt your head up or around. Not rote memorizing skeletons. Jesus this is like studying an instrument and music theory but never getting around to playing some scales.

I don't want to hear from anymore med larps. What matters to sculptors most is what matters to plastic surgeons: SURFACE ANATOMY WHICH NO ONE HAS MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD.

>>918803
Good choice an actual industry veteran and anatomy specialist.

>>923781
Cont...
Also if it wasn't made clear at the end of the paragraph, you're learning anatomy as an artist utilizing deconstruction, not aimlessly working forwards from scratch. If you're having trouble with a form regardless of lighting and material, peel back the skin. Not sure what your own elbow you're looking at right now, with chin over top of wrist, when flexing really is? Get in there to see it's the projections of two different bones at its simplest form and not just a giant ball. But overall see the visible elbow is three points to triangulate and forget about radius in this case because it's just being covered by your radial muscles (smooth low hill curve on the proximal thumb side of forearm.) Then just take it further from there asking questions like a curious child about everything while poking at your own arm hopefully fat lacking. But I have to stress that all these prominences and what not change based on age, fat, state of the skin and so on. Look at different bodies essentially.

>>920624
Pedagogy is universally in a complete state of crises but no one seems to realize it. It's like no one has ever learned by trying to explain the things they've read or observed to themselves, someone else, or in their head simulating themselves explaining it to a friend. Or worse people have been conditioned away from inquiry.

>>923781
>>923790

Post your work. Or don't. FYI nobody cares about your moronic advice about anatomy just like nobody cares about a virgin's advice about sex.

> they don't remember a good deal of muscular insertions
>Your spiel about biomechanics and insertions only apply to sports medicine and orthopedic surgeon

You contradicted yourself in your first sperg paragraph. Of course an ophthalmologist won't remember the origin point of the palmaris longus. Of course a microbiologist struggles to remember on which side the apendix is located. Delavier knows more about the musculo-skeletal system than most doctors on the planet. It took Netter an entire lifetime to finish his atlas. Learn from these two (JUST TWO) people, it's not asking for much.
Learning the bones and muscle insertions is just <5% of anatomy.
I explained several times in a thread about anatomy for artists what you need to learn in order to understand anatomy for artistic purposes and beyond. If studying two dozen pages is "too much" then this stuff is beyond your cognitive abilities. Become an environment artist or something.

>>923952
>contradiction
There's no contradiction. There's not even a need for clarification here. I'm not going to entertain these cliché pedantic antics and hold your hand being over explicit about everything to no avail. Either we kiss and make up or continue our kiss fight and go down the all too common combative nigger flowchart dialogue tree for the umpteenth loop.
>FYI nobody cares about your moronic advice about anatomy
That didn't stop you. Also, welcome to anonymity.
>If studying two dozen pages is "too much" then this stuff is beyond your cognitive abilities.
This is the whole problem. Your waving ego around all over the thread like an arrogant upstart honors student like some seasonal anime deteuronginist. There's no concern for pedagogy here it's all about YOU YOU YOU YOU YOU.
>The reason why my plan works is that it's how I learned and I have proven that I know my shit.
>If studying two dozen pages is "too much" then this stuff is beyond your cognitive abilities.
You should know doctors are really particular when to comes to how a study is constructed and the importance of understanding statistics. A sample size of 1 isn't to be taken seriously, as you're making these absolute statements like they're not only universal truths but the only ones in existence. Just because I think something works for me doesn't mean it isn't a flawed/inefficient method in need of refining especially if I will teach it to others. This is the power of self-reflection. So this is what I'm getting from your cognitive genius so far: your thinking is done through the lens of survivorship bias, and all that matters is your own personal experience. Whether something becomes relevant or changes your mind is the moment it affects your personally. This very NPC tier thinking that can be found all over, with this site being no exception, like with people sucking on once despised and threatening red pills a decade later because the circus finally arrived at their place of work.

>>923952
>Netter an entire lifetime to finish his atlas

This is false, his Bibliography says he became an artist and got a art degree first. He never ever understood the working conditions of the human body. He got a job in art for the new york times.

He himself never like being a doctor, when his parents ask, he did it for respect. He still worked on art related projects during and after being a doctor.

He only made art close to what he imagine, there is no actual evidence of the artwork being close to real. It is only used for reference.

Lastly, the book Atlas of Human Anatomy, was put together by old art work. Some may be inaccurate to today's actual study of the human body. Netter died in 1991 so he could have not known stuff like Interstitium, 'third layer of the masseter muscle in the lower jaw' (actual name is in France) and many more you can find here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328402836_A_Brief_Review_of_Recent_Discoveries_in_Human_Anatomy

Just shut up about your dumb pictures that do not represent actual muscles and bones. People have been studying that book as the government forces them too and only helped create malpractice.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3842041/

You are the dumbest anon i ever seen, believing in a book without doing actual research and maybe the other person is right, you are a drop out who fail to become a doctor.

>>923986
>>923988

your work, virgin
post it

>>923986
>>If studying two dozen pages is "too much"
Step outside yourself for a moment. This isn't about me. This isn't about a literal who anon one upping another literal who anon, that likely will never speak to each other again, in a thread that will disappear into the void and end up gone from memory. This is about....
>I explained several times in a thread about anatomy for artists what you need to learn in order to understand anatomy for artistic purposes
You're just telling people to grind for a med school exam and then grandiosely communicating "your only choice is to rigidly follow my ten step program or NGMI." Somehow progress occurs in the demanding traditional arts without using this peculiar method. Yet I see here no mention of surface anatomy, no regard for construction, no care for cross-sectioning or landmarks because proportions don't matter so throw that fundamental out the window along with scale while your supervisor has an aneurism and the riggers and animators prepare to murder you.
>This is false, his Bibliography says he became an artist and got a art degree first.
Well there you go. He probably started learning anatomy by constructing shapes and then getting a grasp on volume by moving onto primary forms. He would have drawn from references of people and nude life modeling classes.
>He only made art close to what he imagine, there is no actual evidence of the artwork being close to real. It is only used for reference.
Well there you go. OP's incomprehensible godly mastery of the anatomical arts is just a copy of someone else's imagination.

>>924002
no work = no credibility

bye

>>924052
anyone can post fake pictures you dumb fk, i can make a robot make 3D art from 2d and you'll never know.

We exposed, you, your artist was only a artist not a doctor is the field of medicine or truma. You claim false events in his life, his Bibliography does not match your crazy theories.

>>924128
>anyone can post fake pictures
you apparently can't lol

>>924143
Then tell us if this is 3D or 2D, answer you cant.

>>924260
3D

>>924260

>>924266
>3D
WRONG!
it's actually complete shit

Pretty embarassing only a couple guys arguing on a 3 month dead thread. I would not even be surprised if it's just one person arguing with himself.

>>924267
the fact that its shit doesnt mean its not 3D retard.

>>924342
lol autism strikes again haha

>>924266
>>924267
I don't know which one of you is it but both of you are wrong. i told he AI to make a bad render of muscle man.

exposed and revealed how bad of a 3D artist you are to the community.

>>924442
you unironically posted a shit image because you lack any personal work and require AI to generate jpegs for you...

anon... wtf

>>924442
so you are telling us that AI image is not 2D image?

amazing, you are a retard and tell others they are bad artist because this image is neither 2d or 3d

>>924472
>>924496
one of you told me to make it and so i did and you fail, you are the real failure not the robot. Also what part of

> i told he AI to make a bad render

did you not understand, the robot did it's job.

>>924554
you seem retarded, its okay - its a given for ai chuds

>>924555
A.I did the job it was asked, people hate it. Maybe get better than just failing to recognize 2D and 3D. Your claim of being so smart is gone by a machine that doesn't even have feelings to you. I bet you'll die once it does have feelings if you are feeling so depressed over your own failure.

> i told he AI to make a bad render of muscle man.
> this image is neither 2d or 3d

You guys are really good, it gives me motivation.

"learning" anatomy is not about memorizing the names of muscles and skeletal bones, its understanding the beauty and complexity of the human form.

If you treat this as a task to master and just another skill to acquire then you will probably hate learning anatomy and thus never really grasp it.

Learn to love the human form and the body that the god/s have given us, once you have done that you will be content laboring over every small muscle and the weird forms that bones make.

Study biology in general for once you grasp the beauty of life then will you be able to reflect such beauty in you're images.

>>925805
Stop bumping old threads

>>925836
Will serve as an extended reminder of why to keep med students away from art, as well as their horse shit epistemological approach towards écorché.