/3/ - 3DCG

>>784803
Forget about it. Concentrate on programming. Earn some money with that skill and then pay some artists.
On the other hand, start drawing again so you can do loose concepts that you can feed the artists so you can exert some artistic direction.

If you want to do it by yourself, then I think modeling would be a better choice. If I had to choose from using a premade thing, I'd go with premade animation, and for that there's Mixamo. Model characters and environment by yourself so the game doesn't look asset flippy.

>Not programming, modelling, animating, drawing, writing and composing music at once

It sucks being a jack of all trades but on the flip side you can create something from literally nothing. It's the ultimate power of creation. Being a literal god who can create your own universe on a whim.

>>784807
> Forget about it
Can you give me a reason tough?
> Concentrate on programming. Earn some money with that skill and then pay some artists
I have a different plan. I'm unemployed for the moment and want to focus on learning gamedeving as much as I can. But I'm also broke as fuck so in a few months, I'll go back to work, wich is why I'm asking this in the first place, I'll have even less time for gamedeving.
Also I have a ton of programer friends that can take my place in the project if needed. So I'll be able to focus on the 3D skill but it's not for now
>>784809
> If you want to do it by yourself
Well not really, I'll have to create a team at a certain point.
> doesn't look asset flippy
It'll be in the prototype phase but no matter what I choose, I'll have to get rid of the premade stuff to hire some artist to make me original assets

>>784813
>Can you give me a reason tough?
Both 3D artist and Gamedev are fulltime jobs. You think you can wing it, think again. I have seen many people fail after putting years into it fulltime in either one discipline. The overwhelming majority of artists and programmers don't have the brain to do both. Despite people telling you that talent doesn't exist, it kinda does, but its more like personality traits.
If you haven't high values in contentiousness and openness as well as the necessary intelligence for logic and math then you simply won't make it. And I am talking about statistics here. 1 in 1000 artists and 1 in a 1000 programmer can do that.
And then there is time and team management.
>But since I'm not a NEET and that I actually have a life outside of my gamedev hobby
That's the death flag. If you want to succeed you have to work like an entrepreneur for 80hr a week to make up your lack of skill/education and there is no guarantee that you'll make it.
The problem here is that you can learn the tech side of it but the art side of it is much more fickle and cannot be forced - here is were the "talent" comes in.
Imagine spending 3-5 years learning 3D and having no life and then you can only produce stuff like this >>784259

I am not trying to be mean or something, rather I would encourage you to really think about what you are trying to archive. If you want to make a game, (which is fucking hard in itself) the clever strategy is to play out your strengths and not spread yourself thin.

>>784821
> I am not trying to be mean or something
Don't worry, I'm searching for honesty here. Your answers are more than welcome.

Well it's not that I think that I can wing being a 3D artist. But I guenienly feel like I have the skills/abilities to become a good one. I said that I used to draw for a reason, just to specify that I had some base in art. Not throwing flowers at myself here, I never draw professionally but I used to do good stuff and I also feel very confident in my brain and logic skills (for the tech side). And I'm definitely not scared of learning, being blocked, frustrated because my models/animations will suck or not look like what I want them to look or stuff like, that's a part of the learning process and I'm very used to it.

> The problem here is that you can learn the tech side of it but the art side of it is much more fickle and cannot be forced
I agree and I seriously don't mind spending some time on a skill and realising it's just not for me, it's a possibility and I accept it. It's not the first time and not the last time that it'll happen to me. But I need to try first.

>>784827
Do you want to do 3D professionally or just learn enough to be able to make content with a simplistic style for your game? Not that guy, but I think it is perfectly achievable to git gud enough to do it all by yourself, it just takes a shitton of time. But if you want to do both professionally then it becomes much harder, if not impossible. You just can't compete with someone who is focusing on one thing.

>>784827
OK then.
I would suggest the following:
Train your art skills by doing art training - in a very general way (wide not deep) but do a lot of it.
Also learn Houdini.
Its a bold move but maybe its the right one for you.
Learn 3D with Houdini which is the right program for tech-artists and if you succeed you'll have the best core for your whole gamedev pipeline.
Houdini is fully procedural and non-destructive, Node-driven, supports several programming languages - its as close to the metal as you can get.
It will be hard but it stands with one feet in the area you are already familiar with - logic and math.
Instead of focussing on simple modelling or single assets or animation, concentrate your efforts on large systemic problems.
With Houdini you don't build simple assets, you build factories that can build assets for you.
Think big or go home ;)
This the the way.

>>784829
You really want to him to give up, don't you?

>>784830
Actually, no. I am thinking about what is the best solution if he wants to make a game - that is his goal.
If he can handle Houdini, his power will be enormous, even if he fails with the artistic side of it, it can be a massively productive help with gamedev.

>>784829
>>784832
This is the way indeed. Look at what LucenDev is doing for example. https://twitter.com/lucengame

>>784832
Eh, maybe I'm the brainlet here, but I don't see why would somebody learn Houdini before learning 3d modeling basics. Modeling in Houdini will be much more complex and all that power will most likely be unnecessary for him for quite a while. It seems to me that whenever somebody comes here and says they know how to program, they get houdini recommendations, like they will somehow automatically be able to use its potential.

It also depends on what he wants to do, but I don't know why he shouldn't just start with some modeling tutorials in blender, learn how to use Mixamo and start importing basic environments and characters into the game. Then continue from there.

>>784803
Doing game jams is a fun way to develop multiple skills
It also forces you to make a finished project

>>784866
>I don't see why would somebody learn Houdini before learning 3d modeling basics.
Because learning the 3D basics in Houdini makes him automatically understand all the destructive and manual operations in another program. Systemic knowledge vs specific knowledge.
>Modeling in Houdini will be much more complex and all that power will most likely be unnecessary for him for quite a while.
Yes the learning curve will be tough, but the return of investment will blow everything away that he could archive with Blender in the same time.
I would go so far and say this as a general statement:
If you work on a game and do not use Houdini, then you are wasting a lot of time and energy.

>>784878
Any good examples on using Houdini in small indie games? I honestly can't think of one. It's always about "all the potential bro" about Houdini, but I still don't see why would it be so necessary. I used it a bit for some clouds and experimented with foliage generation, and I can also program, but I just can't find any good reason to.

Well to give an idea, this is the style I'm aiming for or at least that quality of models.
>>784829
I'll look into Houdini but there are not so many tutorials on it. Looked in Udemy too, it'always about Houdini VFX and how to make effects
>>784828
No I'm not planning on becoming a pro anytime soon. I love the idea of having the opportunity but I don't plan on working in that field.
>>784866
>>784878
I don't mind spending more time on learning so if it's true that learning Houdini will be a gain in the end, I'll go for it.
>>784884
From the little research I just did, one of the main attraction seems to be that Houdini allows you do a lot of procedural stuff so if other softwares don't allow that (wich I don't know), I can already see the potential time gains

>>784894
take a look at these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsv8UGqDibc&list=PLhyeWJ40aDkUDHDOhZQ2UkCfNiQj7hS5W
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuT2bzBB0kzne16DBAtmLQ/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/Entagma/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/houdini3d/playlists
>>784884
>....but I just can't find any good reason to.
That's on you and your lack of imagination, so not really a factor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCJlBs1B46M
OP watch this video too.

>>784923
Tell me, why are environment artists not using Houdini to model props and buildings more often? If it was that efficient, surely everyone would switch?

>>784946
DUDE, I explicitly recommended him to NOT focus on modelling at first. What about that do you not understand smooth-brain?
>Why are environment artists not using Houdini to model props and buildings more often?
That's a loaded question, who said they don't and even if they don't, you really want to use an argumentum ad populus here?
Maybe because they are artists who are not so good with logic and math, like the majority of them?

>>784951
populum*

>>784951
He asked about modeling and animation though. Wtf are you advising for him to do with houdini? Spend god knows how much time learning high level workflow before actually being productive with it? Go ahead, call me a retard for the fifth time today, I see you enjoy it. All of those are incredibly niche tutorials for stuff he might not ever need, why start with that?

>>784954
>He asked about modeling and animation though.
And I gave him an answer.
>Wtf are you advising for him to do with houdini?
doing magic?
>Go ahead, call me a retard for the fifth time today,
I called you a smooth-brain before, but If you insist I can also call you a retard.
>why start with that?
Because it's what I've got and its better than nothing. Youtube's Algorithm will help him further.
Do you have a better strategy that you would suggest to him? Then lets hear it.
I made my points, why should I try to convince you?

>>784965
I already gave him my advice before. Anyway, good luck to him if he decides to start with Houdini. That's all from me.

The truth is that Houdini is a harsher filter than, say, Maya or Blender. If you start with Maya you'll certainly be able to finish viable projects quickly (single models, at a minimum); with Houdini it's not a sure thing. It works as a lower level and you may grow tired of how slow it is to finish things at the beginning. Of course, once you start going, you'll get more bang for your buck, but that comes with experience and a fair amount of work.

I advise learning the basics first in a true and proven beginner-friendly environment, using Maya and one of the myriad courses available, and only then complement your skills with procedural tools. If you want, you can partition your learning 80-20 in favor of Maya with Houdini, just so you can progress at a good pace, while also being exposed to procedural methods.

>>784984
This is accurate.

You people got me even more confused

>>784803
Not OP and I have a different situation than OP, but I'm also a programmer who wants to get into gamedev as a hobby and learn 3D. I can't draw for shit. I have hand tremors that keep me from being able to draw a straight line, which is why 3D is so attractive to me. You get an undo button and you don't need to be able to draw a straight line because the computer keeps it straight for you. Any advice for how to get good fundamentals if I'm starting with 3D?

>>784803
Modellers are ten a penny. Everyone starts there and most never move beyond it. Everything you can imagine has already been modelled before and is available to buy on asset stores - although quality, and game engine readiness, varies a lot. Everyone in 3dcg needs a basic understanding of modelling, but to get good takes years, usually with a specific focus on either hard surface or characters. Environment modelling benefits hugely from proceduralism and often uses stock library assets for things like foliage to speed things up considerably. Modelling large open worlds and their interaction with gameplay are where things like Houdini shine (look on youtube for HZD or Far Cry 5 workflows for example).

Competent 3d animators are rarer than modellers, but they rely on rigging which is more technical. Given a solid rig in their preferred software they can just go at it and get shit done. Obviously some can rig and animate to a high standard, but that is rarer still, and more valuable as a result.

TL;DR - Pick animation, specifically rigging, with an eye to procedural environments if your game world aspirations are medium to large.

>>785396
Thanks m8