/3/ - 3DCG

The interface is considered unintuitive and confusing. Blender is also heavily reliant on shortcuts. Couple that with it not being used professionally (generally) and it makes more sense to learn Maya. Putting that aside, Blender is a great tool but with a stiff learning curve. It holds its own against commercial 3d software and gets better every year.

>>598804
I hate you(the userbase), first and foremost, because you(the userbase) are annoying asswipes and useless, raving fanboys.

For regular modeling, it's excellent; probably the best in the business with addons and certainly the fastest. People only rag on it because when they buy software or use something else, they develop a case of brand loyalty and feel the need to shit on anyone using tools they don't use. It's similar to Sony/PC/Nintendo fanboys, or Marvel/DC fanboys.

For things like rendering, texturing, sculpting and other things, it leaves a lot to be desired and most are probably better off with other programs. That being said, part of what makes Blender so appealing is that it's a jack-of-all-trades software. If you're just making a simple indie project and don't want to invest in 4-5 programs for your pipeline, Blender has everything you will ever need.

oh it's one of these threads again

>>598837
>when they buy software or use something else, they develop a case of brand loyalty and feel the need to shit on anyone using tools they don't use

I can list a million little things I hate about 3ds Max, but let me tell you why Autodesk products engender such loyalty:

-For starters, it's ridiculously well documented by first party sources: every little button, menu and setting is very well explained, often with clear tutorials.

-it doesn't buck the basic UI trends of Left-Button(Select, interact, drag select), Middle-Button(Pan view), Right-Button(Context Menu) - I'd also accept right-mouse being a second viewport navigator (preferably turntable rotate view). Blender goes against this for no good reason at all (and I've heard all the arguments, there are no good ones) and I want to fucking kick the developers every time they don't cave on this and just fucking switch over. Yes, you can change this behavior in Blender, but it's not officially supported and many shortcuts can and do break, as well as places where the defaults are simply unavoidable due to shortsighted UI design (most noticeable when weight painting and UV editing).

-Product support, patches for serious bugs, and all those other little things that no one wants to do, and therefore don't get done, because that's how open source projects _are_, but are still needed in a professional production environment. Maybe if we could hire dedicated Blender support for a couple-grand a year... . Now, Blender has gotten better about that in recent years, and Autodesk for lack of competition has gotten worse, but still.

-New feature development (when it still happens these days) is based on what's going on here and now. Autodesk didn't shit on PBR based workflows, it simply supported them. Ton is on record showing blatant disregard for the needs of his pro user base, and then still having the unmitigated GALL to call Blender industry grade. Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuck him.

>>598844
Case in point: blind loyalty and fanboyism.

Blender being bad is just a meme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZSdpcWRaMY

It's constantly improving.

>>598845
There's a reason Autodesk fans trot out these tired old arguments. They keep holding up, year after year, and despite much gains made by Blender, their developers never seem to learn.

>>598844
those are good reasons, let me expand on that

-blender does have official documentation, but there is no offline version you can use within blender, only a short description.
if you want the offline manual you can download it here
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/dev/blender_manual.zip

however, the documentation is lacking. it only explains how to use the tools in brief detail and you can't really troubleshoot with it.

- the UV tools are good if you know the advanced functions (relax,snap,cut). its not difficult to get a good unwrap if you do it long enough

-there is no product support and there won't be, its all word of mouth. the program however works well without having to patch it, and you can program your own solutions within

-blender did shit on its users when it comes to PBR, but they released 2.79 last minute with denoiser and PBR and both worked well. still, cycles is not at the stage where i can recommend it to professionals. it is useful for small gigs in vfx or archviz

--------

some overlooked features in blender are the movie editor and the compositor, both are good for something that is not supposed to be part of a 3D package. the problem is both severely lack documentation and there are only few freelancers or studious that use them on a regular basis.
so realistically you can make your studio use blender, but it will take alot of on-the-spot training because the program changes so fast and you will also need someone that understand the compositor +movie editor which is unlikely

>>598846
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZSdpcWRaMY
>It's constantly improving.
I see nothing special here

>>598848
Blender = industry standard by 2039, AMIRIGHT?!

>>598852
>Blender = industry standard by 2039, AMIRIGHT?!

I don't think the Blender developers really, no fooling around, actually WANT widespread industry acceptance. Else many of the issues I have just wouldn't be there.

>>598848
Except your arguments don't hold up because you're an idiot loyal to a corporation and there are plenty of amazing artists who work with Blender.

>>598855
>Except your arguments don't hold up because you're an idiot loyal to a corporation

I haven't used AD products in my pipeline in over 5 years, and Blender is my primary DCC application. I have Blender open right now. I'm working between posts.

>there are plenty of amazing artists who work with Blender.

Which does not, in the slightest, say anything to contradict the facts in my initial post. Ton did say those things about PBR. Blender does not follow the general trends for mouse use. A couple grand a year buys you more support from AD than you're likely to get for a similar amount for Blender. These things aren't matters of opinion.

I mostly only know blender, it seems pretty great for modeling and retopo, and it seems fine for rigging. Even cycles seems pretty adequate for rendering. What kind of features do the autodesk programs have over blender for these tasks?

I know zbrush is better for sculpting, it can just handle way more faces. The navigation is annoying though, even more annoying that it's not customizable at all. Really wanted to just transfer over blender navigation.

>>598805
When you learn how to use the hotkeys, your perfornance efficiency goes up through the roof.

>>598884
Not to mention, the fact that it has hotkeys like programs such as Photoshop at least give it that edge over Maya.

That said Blender, while I have seen both good and bad come from it (just as much as I've seen good and bad from any given Autodesk program), is both rather hard to use and some of its features are rather lacking.

Blender and z-brush are good tools with the massive flaw of their user interfaces literally being like pissing around a corner to hit a thimble 5 miles away.

Their organisational layout is not intuitive enough to make picking them up easy enough so that you can't just spend the same effort to find a solution in Maya or another autodesk product. Having paid for an autodesk product gives you the option of support, which is usually shit but it give you the excuse of paying off someone who doesn't know what you want to at least lift a finger to deal with your problem. Being skilled at blender gives better results in the end because you're freed from not paying off anyone. Zbrush's interface is still shitty. This is coming from someone who hasn't made any effort to at least give either of them a shot, so my critique isn't very valid. It's too daunting because they've got such a strange setup, it's non-linear in menu structure and zbrush is like what the fucking fuckity fuck, if i click on something it better do something when i click it.

you know when you don't want to learn how to write in chinese because you can write in english? Yeah. That.

There's going to be a point where one of these pieces of software has a feature that another one doesn't.

Autodesk products (not saying maya) have the same layout as the new Microsoft standard, a nice ribbon instead of a menu where every tool is sorted well easily visible and each tool has a tiny little video on it where if you move the mouse over it it literally shows you eeeexaaaclty what it does.

the fact we even have to use shitty windows setups when we could use linux, which at this point i think even responds to human emotion... means we're kind of stupid, it's liekw as just wannt to sit there staring at a wall of little lights because physicaly activity and real work scares us. We're kind of sad.

>>598804
It's controls are pretty vague for me I like programs which are closer to CAD than anything else

>>598895
blender have the same menus as maya or 3ds its just that the majority of blender tutors don't recommend using them.
i can work exclusively using buttons in blender, the keyboard workflow thing is a myth.
yes its much faster working with a keyboard but it doesn't mean you can't work with buttons

>>598884
>when you learn how to disregard the garbage UI entirely your performance goes through the roof
That's not a real argument when you consider that the UI is supposed to be the gateway that makes or breaks whether someone spends more than an hour with your product.
You would have to be incredibly delusional to believe that a user who has spent less than an hour figuring out how a program works is going to find enough merit to suddenly destroy all impressions of being a beginner and use nothing but keyboard shortcuts.

>>598804
The real, quantifiable fault with Blender is that from a human factors (UX) perspective, the UI is a complete failure. By placing each Editor in a dropdown box, they give each Editor equal priority, which is an objectively wrong thing to do.
You cannot, from a user experience perspective, give equal priority to a group of interfaces, when all of those interfaces are used more or less frequently than each other. That's fucking dumb.

For an example of MASTERFUL UX design, see Autodesk 3ds Max.
Everything a beginner to 3D modeling needs is front and center. 80% of what the beginner needs is right in their face.
No need to go hunting around dropdown boxes and figuring out what the fuck a "Logic Editor" is.
All they have to do is read the titles of the buttons and they can roughly figure out what would happen if they pressed it.

t. someone who started out with 3ds Max with only prior experience from Blender, and used no tutorials in the process.

>>598911
To add onto this, Blender has a tendency to give equal priority to interfaces where it shouldn't, because there seems to be some severe autism where the first and foremost design requirement is to be able to completely redesign the UI.
This would ordinarily be a good thing, if only a single person in the world would take the time to do such a thing and then force everyone else to use it.
Too little too late.

Majority of people on this planet are retards.
If you take a group of people, with big chance most of them will be retards.
If you take into account group of 3d artists, most of them will be retards
retards is incapable of learning handful of shortcuts that fasten work bysignificant ammount in the long run.
Considering the above, retards say that they're not the problem - the software is the problem.

>>598920
Software that can't be used by most of the people who would use that software for its typical use-case is badly designed.

>>598911
blender UI is broken down into 3 main parts

the first part is views, views can be changed from the dropdown like you said, and helps to organize and customize views

the second part is panels, panels open in N and T. the left side panel is the equivalent of autodesk panel. i call it "the underused panel" because sometimes buttons come in handy. blender might fail in arranging those properly, but those buttons are there to use.

and number 3 are modes. like texture paint,sculpting,render mode etc.

if you want blender to be more like maya, you have to focus on using the panel buttons rather than the keyboard, which is simply a matter of preference

>>598931
In 3ds Max, the top panel is actually rather important, because it's the panel where buttons have images, which makes the button's purpose immediately understandable.
On top of that, the top bar will sometimes change by itself depending on usage context.
This somewhat organic toolbar is more or less omnipresent in Autodesk software and in my opinion is one of the best parts about using their software.

The main issue is that the utility of software should be judged by people who are completely new to the field--these people are your life and blood.
If these people have difficulties using the software without consulting documentation or having someone hold their hand for them, something is wrong.

All software should be judged from the context of newfags, and that's something that almost everyone in this thread seems to be forgetting.

>>598884
>>598887
>You can't use shortcuts in other software, they just don't exist!

>>598897
>Having a straightforward interface stops shortcuts from existing!
>>598920
>SHORTCUTS DON'T EXIST! BLENDER INVENTED SHORTCUTS WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

>>598939
When the hell did I say that? I'm saying other programs have it too.

How dense are you?

>>598940
what i meant was, autodesk people always say blender is too dependent on hotkeys, which is true.
but people hardly utilize the buttons in blender and it stems from how people teach the program to others.
personally i rather use buttons sometimes depends on the project and what im doing

I on the other hand like Blender exactly for its UI and shortcuts. Yes, I know other programs have shortcuts as well, duh, but Blender's workflow is still faster for me. I LOVE that you're able to click and just pull the mouse and that's it. Makes things like e.g. extruding super fast. In Max I could use an extrude shortcut but I'd still have to click on the edge everytime and pull it to extrude. Small things like that, and it eventually adds up.

>>598893


Zbrush gets a pass for being phenomenal at what it does. It's also intended to be used with a stylus (preferably with a cintiq style display) and that makes a big difference to the overall feel of it.

>>598804
Blender is NOT bad. The people giving it shit are just worried because with every build it comes closer to replacing their precious Maya and zbrush.
By the end of 2018 I can guarantee more AAA studios will be using it over Maya.

>>598957
>Not to mention, the fact that it has hotkeys [...] give it that edge over Maya.

I mean, Maya has hotkeys, it's not exactly exclusive.
I don't get how "Blender has fast hotkey workflow" became some go-to, Blender-exclusive positive to point at when every other DCC package out there has hotkeys and is capable of a "Fast hotkey-based workflow". Do you guys just not think to configure and use hotkeys unless you're forced to?

Blender is the only 3D program that has hotkeys. They patented them and will sue anyone who tries to put hotkeys in their software. In fact you're not even allowed to look directly at your computer keyboard when using other 3D software or else Blender will send you a C&D Order.

>>598972
*inhales*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>598989

It's not completely laughable, but it's not going down that way either.

Maya/3ds Max maybe, for some things: AA game dev (AA, not a typo. like Hell Blade), and arch viz come to mind. Blender has been chipping away at the arch viz marketshare for a while, and that's only going to accelerate. Autodesk makes most of its money outside the entertainment industry, so that's a real threat to them.

AAA studios using Blender will not outnumber the ones using Maya, not by a long shot, not in 12 months. There's SO many factors to overcome that aren't even "lolz Blender is weird". That's not to say there aren't a lot of eyes on Blender as Eevee shapes up, but Blender devs are going to have to show that it can be integrated into their pipeline and the Blender devs aren't really keen on it. There may be some community solutions, or some enterprising plugin developer will handle integration with popular game engines, we'll see. So not in 2018, but a large scale switch to Blender could happen over the next few years depending on how things go with 2.8. I'm not optimistic due to Blender dev's track record of not understanding what pro users want, and not giving a damn when they do understand it, but it's at least possible.

<cont>

Every thread this happens:
>Autodesk users insulting "Blendlets" because they constantly shill their software
While the reality is this:
>Autodesk user opens a thread asking why Blender sucks so much
>Blender user calmly tries to give a fair explanation why he thinks Blender is a good software
>Autodesk user starts making insults and memes like >>598989
This happens EVERY time. Just remember all those "donut maker" threads we had recently.

>>598996

Now, Zbrush isn't getting displaced without some major changes to Blender, some of them so deep under the hood that they might not ever be practical. Zbrush handles data and 3d operations in a fundamentally different way and that's how it can push so many polys without chugging. Blender struggles to keep up at an order of magnitude less detail. This allows Zbrush to do much more computationally expensive stuff (not to mention the Blender foundation not having the resources to implement those more advanced features anyway). Even considering Moore's Law, raw hardware is years away from giving Blender brute force parity with what Zbrush can do now on today's hardware. Though I gotta give props to Blender for doing the smart thing (for maybe the first time literally ever) in stealing Zbrush's Shift+Click as the shortcut for the smooth brush.

So Autodesk I can see a move away from, Zbrush not so much.

>>598974
You forgot that I compared it to Photoshop and other Adobe products.

Besides, is there any official documentation on Maya Hotkeys?

>>598997
Hey fuck you, I'm tired of getting called a brand loyal idiot by fuckwits like this guy >>598855 for pointing out the serious flaws in Blender, some of which are so easy to correct that the developers must be actively malevolent assholes to not address. It seems inconceivable to a lot of Blender users that its harshest critics are ALSO Blender users who would like Blender to be fucking normal. Meanwhile Ton is saying shit like "Why be normal when you can be extraordinary"

Hey Ton, how about you walk before you try to run. Do you have any god damn clue how many of us would be happy with that? Thanks for the free software you dickhead.

>>599001
That post was inappropriate, and I apologize to anyone that might have seen it.

>>599001
F* both of you for arguing over and over again, insults go in both directions and I'm tired of seeing these retarded threads all the time.

*EDIT: seen your post, there's no point in this, I agree.

>>599003
I was over the line there, I freely admit that.

>>598804
Actually microwaves are bullshit.

>>598804
I started learning 3D with Cinema 4D, which is regarded as having a very easy to learn UI. I really liked Cinema 4D, but when I wanted to start making money on things I need to either buy a license or find an alternative. I tried Blender and within a couple weeks removed C4D from my computer.

If you "buy in" to the Blender workflow, it's one of the sleekest, fastest programs you'll ever use. I use Blender for modeling, animation, UVs, and compositing, and the hotkeys all transfer throughout the different phases of the program.

I truly love Blender and feel it's workflow has made me a better artist.

blender is hated by autofags because of one simple reason:
the one guy on the team at the only job they had, that one guy that knew blender, he had the best workstation because his value was higher for knowing blender.

blender fits into workflows where other 3d progs fail to work.

>>599067
>>his value was higher for knowing blender.

>this is what blendfags actually believe

>>599067
>job
>blender
Pick one.

I have first hand experience with the cancerous userbase. I know that if I have to troubleshoot anything, I will have to interact with this cancerous userbase.

>>598836
Not all of us :')

>>598804
blenderfags like furries

>>599108
Accurate
Top 3 things describing the physical world:
>General relativity
>Quantum mechanics
>Blenderfags like furries

>>599067
you got it backwards kid
kys asap

>>599067
This is the single most retarded comment I've read on /3/

That is a fucking accomplishment, congrats.

I've never had any opinion or experiencewith blender, so I went out of my way to ask a lot of people in the industry what they thought about blender.

The pattern is pretty clear. Blender users usually think its some sort of "first 3d program" and that they will switch to big boy maya when they're good enough, first time 3ds/maya users cargocult their way out of everything just by "its what the industry uses so if i use it im in the industry and im a professional", and actual veteran professionals all had this "if it works for you and you can prove, its cool" attitude about most of the software no matter which one they used.

This whole thread reeks of Vim vs Emacs threads where no one actually knows what the fuck they're doing but they read in an article that Stallman uses Emacs so they do too without knowing why.

>>599114
I know our sticky is outdated, but god damnit people this still applies.
>You heard wrong, there is no one program that is better than the rest, it has and always will be the skill level of the artist

>>599117
Try telling that to the people who keep bitching about Blender's existence.

So unless the mods begin to crack down harder on the behavior of idiots, or when or if /3/ even gets mods, it'll remain that way probably until whenever.

>>599114

No professional is going to give you shit for using Blender if you gets results. The question is what kind of results you're going to get from Blender vs the other guys, and if it's worth putting down the money. And I get the feeling you're trivializing that, or somehow acting like the people who have these discussions wouldn't be having them if they "knew better", whatever that means.

>>599114
as a user ill admit that some of the tools in blender are tough to work with. a good example is the baker, i had to sort through 20 videos until i found someone that knows how to bake without using multires.
the texture paint and vertex paint can be improved too, the lightning system could use better portals than the shit we have now.

now if you actually have to deal with those things, fixing them is not a problem. you can mod blender to the point where its an excellent tool.
same goes for autodesk, people rather use xnormal and topogun for a reason. its better to use something like that than mod every single tool that you don't like

>>598804
I don't understand the UI

It's probably ok but it doesn't make sense for anyone to suffer through it if they can just pirate maya or some shit

>>599195
It depends entirely on which program you use first and how you respond to each program personally.
I don't understand the clusterfuck that is maya.
Lots of people say the same about blender, but it makes sense to me.
Tools don't make the artist.
>>599122
I don't think we'll ever get a proper mod/admin here.
They'd rather just piss people off at this point, just look at the state of basically every other board.

>>598974
You have never used Blender.
Blender's hotkey system is unique and increases work speed a lot. Try it.

>>598893
Maya has a lot shittier UI than Blender. Maya's menus aren't structured, and everything is buried within long dropdown menus.
In Blender, everything is available right there, and hotkeys are universal - Whether you're editing UVs, modeling, making video fx or animating, Blender's hotkeys and controls are always the same.
Maya's UI is like that of a badly ported console game.

>>599114
This right here. I personally use Blender exclusively for modeling and UV, and some light sculpting before exporting into Zbrush. I really enjoy it's UI, both visually and in a UX context. I work super fast with it. The other areas are obviously very lacking compared to paid "industry standard" softwares for me, so I just don't use them and use better equivalents instead.

That being said, you do have to realize that some studios will not let you use Blender, because they have invested in tons of plugins for a specific software. Even if you always COULD use it to make some solo asset (it always exports in the same format anyway), it's just not possible for larger scenes. You won't get any great tools they've already made, nor a support if something goes wrong.

For example, Naughty Dog uses exclusively Maya, you can't even be a Maxfag there. They have so many extra software on top of Maya that Maya is basically their engine at this point.

The point in the end is that no matter what, you will have to learn new software and be able to adapt. You just can't think that you are "investing my time into a safe choice" and stick to it like an autist. And what if you now "invested" so many years in "industry standard" 3DS Max and are too incompetent to make a switch when needed, and now you want to work in Naughty Dog? You're fucked, my man. So, these threads are stupid and pointless, and the people that get invested in heated discussion here are, dare I say it, retarded.

P.S. - I have to admit I don't have a real experience with this yet, but I learned it through reading and listening to a lot of podcasts. If something is wrong, please do correct me, because I don't want to spread false information.

>>599109

I bet you like midichlorians as well.

>>599220
Maya's menu clusterfuck is what initially drove me to learn Blender in the first place, and holy shit do I ever agree. I don't necessarily like Blender, but some of it actually makes more sense than Maya, and what doesn't is for the most part equally obtuse with the exception of left click being Set 3d Cursor. Even years later that doesn't make any sense to me.

>>598804
A daily reminder. Know your place, blendlets.

>>599393
/3/ would be a much better place if idiots like you weren't here.

You're like those console war shitposters on /v/.

>>599393
See, I can do it too.

>>599458
And for a more accurate opinion...

>>599458
This is what blendlets actually believe.

"b...but...we're gonna beat Maya and 3ds. 2.8 will be a game changer!" says increasingly nervous man for the hundredth time.

>>599483
delete this

>>598836
Lol okay learn the industry with a dildo in your ass from some nosey professor for that sweet cum drip on top of your blue waffle

>>599483
No, I'm just proving a point. Anyone can edit that image to anything they damn well want. See >>599459 for an example of /3/ as a whole and not just one program.

Hell, I could easilly do it to you or your mom if I knew who you were. It's really not that fucking hard to twist it like that.

>>599500
Or better yet, realize that 3D is a joke and neck yourself as soon as you realize everyone either sucks or are snobs who make you suck.

>>598804
>>599458
>>599459
Huhuhuhuhu i haz the funnies.

>>598804
no actual numbers, so I can't make my 3D models to print

>>599557
What are you referring to?

>>598804
I've been using Blender, never used Maya so my opinion might just be total shit. I feel like Blender is criticized unfairly because people compare it's functionality to specialized programs like cycles renderer vs something like Octane, Redshift or whatever. Sculpting feels kind of weak and just the fact that Zbrush has preset brushes along with layers puts it way above Blender.
Working with hair and clothing system in Blender makes me want to kill myself.

I didn't really answer your question OP but that's that kind of criticism I come across most often.

>>600676
I have yet to make blender not shit the bed when trying to give clothing cloth physics.
And when you Google it, all you get is a flag tutorial

>>599557
wut

>>600732
when doing cloth physics, I make a very simple mesh cage for the clothes, give the cage cloth physics, and then apply mesh deformation modifier on the actual clothes.

>>600676
The biggest gripe that I have with blender is the amount of shortcuts I have to memorize. Yeah sure, they are right there in the menus but every time I pick up blender, I get huge waves of anxiety. It's taken me 2 years to learn the donut tutorial because there's just too much to memorize and know and I still haven't finished. It's a program that makes me unsure of itself. I seriously have no idea how I can understand every other 3D program except for this one.

I'm saying this coming from a background in C4D, AE, and a little bit of Maya

>>600755
I don't think I've had that much trouble with my first donut. I have to agree though that when learning Blender, I had a bit of trouble learning the hotkeys, but it really does manage to be helpful after learning them. I think the learning curve starts steep but gets more even once you get over the troubles with the UI, hotkeys, and start getting used to how everything works.

>>599459
we're already in the trash bro this is the bottom

>>600795
If this is the bottom, I'd hate to see what's underneath the can.

>>598804
if you are just starting and want to get into the industry i see no reason to waste time learning blender over maya or max depending on what you want to do.

if you are just learning for some fun on the side, desu max and maya are still better as you can just pirate them and the tutorials if you want and no one will care cos you just making dicks and ugandan knuckles anyway

>>598805
>the interface is considered intuitive and confusing
>coming from 3ds max users
I have both programs installed and 3DS Max looks like something out of 1995.

Don't know why, but working in 3ds max always feels like a chore to me. It could possibly be just because of the fact that it is industry standard and people say that you should use it, so naturally I refuse to like it. It could also be because of the old-school UI. And 3ds max was my first 3d program.

I jumped back and forth a few times between 3ds max and blender and every time, I felt so good when working with blender that now I still use it for modeling and unwrapping. I don't know about the industry and if I'd want to be a part of it, I'm probably shooting myself in the foot, but blender actually makes modeling a lot more fun for me. Everybody is different, I like pretty much everything about it from UI to shortcuts, and it also has some pretty great addons like hardops for modeling hard-surface with booleans similar to tor frick's approach in modo. 3ds max probably has more plugins, but so many of them are either paid or, worse, old and lack any support that they might as well not exist in the first place.

>>598935
i have mostly used blender, but i have tried maya once. I couldn't figure out how to do nearly anything the first 30 minutes, while this may be because i am used to blender, and really like the shortcut workflow.

but the UX in such software doesn't really matter because any user working with it, learned its tools somewhere. if you have no experience beforehand, you won't be able to use bleder or maya.

it ultimately ends up being user preference, which for alot of non professional users is blender, because it is free and the internet is filled with tutorials on it.

i understand why someone would prefer buttons, i just love shortcuts, in any program.

>>598804
Pros:
Blender is extensively documented.

It has a built in game engine.

You can extend it with python.

Having more shortcuts makes your work slightly faster than other programs.

The Principled BSDF is a new addition that can composite any material by recognizing that everything has Fresnel reflection.

You can even do 2D animation in blender with 3D environments.

Cons:
Blender is rarely used in major motion productions, or the industry in general.

It has a steeper learning curve because it's interface is not intuitive.

>>598804
>>601813
I will say that watching the few shows/movies that Blender was used in sold me on trying to learn the program even more. It's the underdog that still isn't the best but if you have a budget of zero; then there's not that much to complain about.

Hardcore Henry, Warcraft, Lights Out, The Orville, Pre-production of Sam Raimi's Spiderman, I think even the game Euro Truck is mostly made in Blender. I know there's a bunch more too but there's a guy at my work that uses blender for our graphics or transitions sometimes. We mainly use C4D but now and again, I see him using Blender in pretty much a professional environment (news station). I still think it really just comes down to the artist. Not the tools. Our Producer kinda could give a shit what we use, as long it gets done and is what they want on time. The only time they seem to care is if it costs money or they have to pay for a plugin or service.

>>598804
Blender is free and easy to get into. The fags who autodesk just want to feel good about their 100 dollars/month purchase

As someone who uses both, I prefer Autodesk. The controls and UI are just leagues better. Blender's controls and interface makes me want to shoot myself in the head.

But I mainly use Blender for one reason, and that is it's completely free with no strings attached. I can't say the same for Autodesk or the student version of Autodesk.

>>598805
You literally must be high IQ to use blender and to understand how shortcuts and the UI make sense. I'm sorry for you anon.

>>598804
maya, 3dx, houdini, c4d industry standard

blender is for studios who cant even afford windows.


its like asking why macs are bad for 3d, sure you "can do everything" the other programs can. but your either doing it out of ignorance or you are doing it to try to prove a point. using a superior software that is industry standard will help when looking for tutorials that will actually teach you thing, looking for jobs, or just fucking doing anything.

>my friend i went to school with used blender until he came to our school. He taught and spoke at blender events. he worked his ass off to get up to speed with the rest of us, he was far behind in understanding and skill due to all the wasted time he put into learning blender. He really worked hard and became a ridiculously talented artist. he is now a lead lighting set artist at blur studios. He now talks about how shit blender is. Blender was probably the only thing holding him back.


/thread/
http://artofbeat.com/

>>601813
>Blender is extensively documented.
>>601872
>Blender is free and easy to get into.

You guys are so funny. Have you received your $0.02 from the Blender foundation?

>>598804
Used both Blender and Maya. While I'm inclined to say Blender is just as good as Maya, it's interface is so clunky, it has an artificial barrier to entry. Maya does the same thing without contorting your fingers all across the keyboard.
If I come back to Maya after months of not using it, I'm good to go.
If I come back to Blender after months of not using it, time to watch a few dozen video tutorials to get the hot-keys down again!
No real reason for Blender's UI to be that bad outside of
>Free
But it comes at a price. Time.
I do like some features in Blender, like the text-editor. Makes sharing rigs easier by having the read-me as a part of the file. Some features of Blender are just...Why?
>Garbage collector. Now you need to fake users and manage what is clenching on to what in one file format wondering why it's storing 3x the data it should have.
It's a feature, not complete clunk!

>>598804
>Why is Blender so bad?
it's not.
/thread
>inb4 "you can't '/thread' your own post."
/thread

>>601915
/thread

>>601901
I'm trying to make people convince me to go back to 3ds max, but nobody can do it. Can you? If Blender is so bad, please help me stop shooting myself in the foot then. After gathering experience in both softwares, I'm faster with Blender, there's plenty of tutorials for Blender on the internet (aside from Gnomon courses) both paid and free and generally they are newer, while when I want to learn something for Max I usually only find 7+ years old tuts done by Ahmeds and Rajeshs. And Blender is more pleasant to model in for me, so it pushes me to work even harder since everything is enjoyable. Am I far too lost or is there still a "hope" for me? Tell me why I should switch back, and ignore the "industry standard, no jobs" talk. I'm surprised that your friend was somehow much slower then his colleagues and want to know why, because Blender is super fast with shortcuts IMO, especially when you add all the addons and stuff like HardOps in the mix.

>>601936
>Blender is more pleasant to model in for me
There's something wrong with you.

>>601942
Or maybe people have different tastes and you're so asocial you can't even comprehend that is possible.

Do all of you faggots actually buy this shit though?
>$1,470/year for Maya|3DS Max
>$795 for Zbrush
>$1,100/6 months for Cinema 4D

Being a poorfag, Blender is the only place to start. Unless you pirate.

>>601946
>Blender is the only place to start.
It's not. There are many, many free or cheap, maybe more specialized but actually useful tools to make 3D.
If you start up with Blender you end up nowhere slowly.

>>601943
There is no taste involved in "broken", unuseable and "waste of time and money", which are all things that objectively describe Blender.

>>601955
>waste of time and money
if that's how you view something enjoyable as 3D then you should stay away from it.

>>601955
You know that is not true. At least try and give some arguments. You just hate the program for no reason and want to insult its user base. A lot of good art came out of it and many people use it without any problems, so that is enough of a proof that it is not "completely broken". Sure it is kinda inferior to other specialized programs, sure there are still things that could be improved. But I like it's modeling tools specifically and that is mainly what I use it for.

>>601955
3D is a hobby, you shouldn't calculate time x money with something that you are passionate about.
there is no "net gain/loss" when it comes to something you like to do, because not all of the things you like to do are productive or economic

>>601964
You're right in the sense that Blender is unsuitable for any kind of professional work, or any work really, so at best you can be an hobbyist who makes donuts. But still time isn't free and so isn't Blender.

>>601963
Dude, just stop. What's happening right now is the crab bucket mentality. They are telling you blender is shit because they are terrible, miserable people who takes great pleasure in making others feel miserable about your decisions. You don't need to justify shit dude. You really DO NOT need to explain yourself to the cancer and toxicity that is this board and 4chinz and why you like Blender. You do you man. All they will forever do, and will continue to do is egg you on for a reaction and try to get into your head to make you think otherwise.

>>601964
>3D is a hobby
Why does it have to be just that, though?

>>601942
Don't be silly. They both feel similar when you actually go in and model something.
Max is the outlier when it comes to modelling workflow.

>>601963
As someone who mainly used Maya and Blender after trying out a bunch of the big 3D packages as well as a few smaller ones, pretty much this.

They all basically do the same thing, and you'll always feel like something is missing. Blender and Maya is what I ultimately end up coming back to. I don't trash post about how much I don't get why people favor Max over those two. Geez people, it's like one of the memes that spread like wild fire on /3/. Blender is perfectly feasible if you're willing to put up with its flaws. It's not like knowledge is lost learning it- as I said they're basically all the same program. It takes weeks to jump from one to the other anyway once you get past the initial 3D learning curve. Don't get why some of you are so defensive of Autodesk :V

>>601954
What are the other free options? Blender is a mess, I agree. But the other free shit is either trials or trash.

>>601999


>>601970

>>601999
If you're looking specifically for character rigging and animation, there are no free alternatives because the Blender Foundation, with its satanic predatory bait and switch tactics has sucked the life out of every other project over the years.

>>598804
I don't, it has become pretty good in the past few years

The only problem is that it's still not an industry standard (although I've already seen 1, 2 job offers where they asked for blender experience)

>>598804
oh noes

>>598897
>the keyboard workflow thing is a myth.
>yes its much faster working with a keyboard

>>598804

I actually hate how everything that comes out of blender looks like it's made of rubber
Why does it all look like shit?

>>604258
broad assumption here: shit shaders and cycles?

>>601999
free educational licence for 3dsmax or Maya

>>598856
>hurr mouse is swaped
I have been working in several packages. They all require pinpoint precision for selecting vertices (unless you use lasso or some shit), and if the transform gizmo is below you're gonna get that instead. Swapping the mouse buttons fixes those issues without introducing any new ones. By having right-click exclusively for selection, it allows you to select the stuff you want selected much easier and faster. It's a tradeoff. Intuitiveness for efficiency. And it's not even that hard to get used to.

>>604258

>>604279
Yes

>>604278
>having right-click exclusively for selection
>It's a tradeoff.
It's one of many, many Blender's mistakes. Of couse the biggest mistake one can make is to use Blender at all.

>>604285
Great argument. You really hit the nail on the head with that one.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Blender. The workflow is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the shortcuts will go over a typical user's head.

>>605340
>t. blendlet

>>605340
With just an average IQ you can understand that Blender is garbage and use something else.

>>605383
>>605398
There’s also UI's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into its characterisation- its personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The userbase understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these keys, to realise that they’re not just easy to remember- they say something deep aboutLIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Blender trulyAREidiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the complexity in Blender's existential catchphrase “S to scale, r to rotate,” which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev’s Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Ton Roosendaal’s genius wit unfolds itself on their monitors. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Blender tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 years of study points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

Blender is only good for peeps too broke to invest in commercial 3D software. It's got a steep learning curve and a horrible interface, but it's powerful and a great alternative to pirating since it's free/ open source.

However, Autodesk offers free student editions for non commercial use on nearly all of their software. Also, Maya LT is $30 a month and Mudbox $10 a month. Not too bad. Cut out your daily smoking / coffee habits and you could afford either of these a month.

Personally, I prefer perpetual licenses over subscription, which is why I use Zbrush, Lightwave, and Substance Painter. I really love LW's interface, especially compared to Blender and Maya.

The 3D software comparisons threads are redundant though. Everyone is going to have a different preference.

I luv threads like this. What is funny is all the adesk folks act as though they are using some kind of standard shit. They aren't. All this yammering about interfaces. What huge load that argument it. You know maya? open 3ds you are fucked. then there is their cad software. know CAD open adt or mep you are fucked. learn adt and mep open revit you are fucked. lets not even discuss inventor cause you know what you are fucked. Autodesk has run out and bought every hoar graphics package they can slathered their logo on it and called it theirs. Blender is simply a product they don't own but to say this other shit has a proper "standard" interface is pure bullshit plain and simple. Its just what you bothered to learn. Wait till the sands shift under your feed and you are expected to learn the next new "standard" shit the interface will be arbitrary and you will be fucked until you learn it and then you will be trolling about how great and standard that shit is.

>>605401
>It's got a steep learning curve
You're either trolling or you're literally a brainlet.

>>605402
Yeah, people here are falsely accusing blender for having a vastly different UI and workflow from the rest of the packages, but whoever actually tried out all of them knows it is a bullshit. I knew Max and Blender, got into Maya and I didn't even know how to move around the viewport at first. Every package has different controls for that. I had to google a lot for Maya, more so than for any other software. It really depends on the individual and it's a matter of preference.

>>605402
> Autodesk has run out and bought every hoar graphics package they can slathered their logo on it and called it theirs.

Now that you mention this, it makes me think, if Blender weren’t free software, Autodesk would probably have bought it. People would be then shilling Blender against any other free alternative, just as they shill Maya or whatever big name they happen to have heard.

the UI fucking SUCKS and it's buggy

it's very powerful but it needs a civilized UI

>>605418
UI is fucking GREAT and is completely bug-free compared to e.g. 3DS Max 2018's UI.

What are you gonna do now?

>>605404
>vastly different UI
Blender doesn't have an useable UI. That's the problem, not that it's different.

>>605421
You have to learn to be more subtle when you're shilling.

>>605430
You have to learn to be more subtle when you're shitting.

>>605429
It does have AN usable UI, you can still access every tool with a button, and you can also just press space and type in what you want. If you're not retarded, sooner or later you'll work almost exclusively with hotkeys anyway, so UI won't matter if you use Blender or Max or Maya or Modo anyway.

>>605432
You can also just press space and marvel at the fact that Blender is garbage software filled with so many buggy garbage functions that you have to google them.

UIs, from best to worst:

Modo
Blender
Lightwave
3ds Max
Maya

>>605431
And Blender is still garbage that wastes your precious time and money.

>>605437
If I export a box from Blender and then export a box from Maya, will Blender's box be shittier?

>>598972

Lol Zbrush will NEVER be replaced by Blender. Hell, Blender can barely handle 1 million polygons.
Besides, 3d artists learn maya/3ds max and zbrush at school,why would they switch to blender after learning industry standard softwares for 3 years?

>>598997
Well what did you expect? If Blendlets say stupid shit, they'll get laughed at, that's normal.

hurr durr blender will replace Maya in 2050.

(32 years later)

hurrrr Blender is going to be the industrystandard by 3000, mark my words

>>601872

$230/month

I don't have to feel good about it since I don't pay for it.

Is Modo accepted in studios or is it also a "waste of time"?

>>601946

I don't pay for any of my stuff but I'd definitely buy zbrush if I wasn't a poorfag. Blender is a waste of time.

What do you guys mean when you say Blender is a "waste of time"? Is it only because you can't get a job with it or what? Clearly a lot of artists create great things with it so you must be talking about the lack of jobs, right? Which is super retarded considering a lot of people here are doing 3d as a hobby, so it doesn't matter.

>>605451
i know people that work in news stations and production and they use blender, in combination with other things to cut costs

>>605451
They mean nothing in particular; it’s just trolling for the sake of it.

As there are few users here of the programs they shill for (if there are any at all), the chances of Blender users getting all riled up are higher than if these trolls were badmouthing Maya or whichever other software. So they go for Blender.

It’s quite reasonable if you are a troll. Stupid otherwise, but who gives a fuck?

>>605454
Yes, it's obvious they are trolling, some even admitted so. Although we already had a discussion about how pointless and insulting to some people it is. Eh, people have to find some fun for themselves, won't judge. Also, you can tell by the time of a response that there is a good amount of samefagging involved as well.

>>605452
They work in a news station. You don't and you never will. And what they do is make stuff in Maya and then claim it was made in Blender, to reduce costs.

>>605464
Lmaoing at your life.

>>605464

>>605464

>>598998
Throw a respectable workstation class card in your machine, with at least 16GB of ram and I bet performance will get a lot closer to Zbrush. Maybe even surpass it. Has anyone done any sculpting tests in non Zbrush software with something like a P5000, GP100? or Radeon Pro WX9100?

>>601904
Did it ever occur to you that maybe you're a bit dumb? As far as 3D modelling software goes Blender is pretty easy to use.

>>605506
According to everybody else it isn't. And after all the hardship, the results, if you can call them that, are really bad. That's the typical Blender experience.

well this is my first time entering this board and people are already shitting on the only 3D CGI software i know how to use... screw you guys i like blender for dicking around and learning the basics

>>605522
Nobody can have such a shitty, false argument for real. You need to up your trolling game, faggot. This is just sad.

>>605543
You're doing yourself a disservice if you try to learn 3D in Blender because it teches you the wrong basics and doesn't allow you to progress.
>>605593
You need to talk to people outside of your echo chamber sometimes.

>>605598
Stop lying to people, you humongous fucking idiot.

>>605543
They are just trolling. That’s their only talent at 3DCG, and it’s not even a 3DCG skill.

>>605601

He's right though. Try saying loop cut in a studio, people will laugh at your ass. Hell I'm sure most blendlets aren't aware of how normals work because unless you toggle the small directional pins, reversed normals aren't displayed in the viewport. This often results in fucked up models you have to fix inside good software (maya, modo) because blendlet artists are that clueless.

>>605484

Are you dumb? The performance gap will always be the same regardless of your specs.

>>605614
>They are just trolling
Keep repeating yourself that

>>605624
>reversed normals aren't displayed in the viewport

>what are OpenGL lighting settings?

>>605624
Even if you don't have to normal pins visible you can immediately tell the model has some wrong normals in it due to weird looking lighting errors, you just go to edit mode, press A and click the recalculate normals button and it solves everything 99% of the time.

>>605625
If you are using a weak GPU with a small amount of RAM for GPU intensive tasks you will get lower performance than tasks that do not use the GPU. That isn't some far fetched theory. Every sculpting software, except Zbrush, uses the GPU. So yes if you have a shit card those software will in general perform far worse than Zbrush. If you use a professional GPU that is appropriate for the level of work you are doing, Zbrushes performance lead shrinks considerably. Especially when you factor in the impact a professional GPU can have on the rest of the pipeline.

>>605598
dude, that's not correct at all. Fuck you for spreading misinformation.

>>599507
there are artists, and there are gods
this is a god

>>598836
but that's a really good render, keep it up!

>>598804
are you kidding?


show me one good thing ever made on blender lol, its like ametueur hour over there lol

>>608250
Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYQd_2DK4gY

>>608250
>>608262
Oops, wrong video, that's from season 1. Here is the one you want to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Je3oQjK17A

>>608262
They know that there are awesome stuff done in Blender, but it's fun to shitpost, nevertheless this is 4chan

>>598804
What are the facts that make Blender worthless? All the facts.
>>608266
That would have been considered awesome work 10 years ago, which was claimed to have been made in Blender (it wasn't) by extremely talented people, which you aren't. And what good does that do to you? None.

>>608266
Everyone who doesn't agree with your bizarre software preferences is a shitposting troll.

>>598804
It's not at all "inferior" in terms of capabilities.

But it might not be to some people's taste.

Most 3D packages are already messy to learn, but Blender is on a different level altogether, do to being built piece-by-piece by so many different people.

It's absolutely one of the hardest to learn on your own, which is of course a shame, seeing as it's free and all.

>>608315
Eh, it was pretty easy for me... Different minds will like different workflows, and thus learn them more easily. After reading all of the bitchings here for months, I'm probably a genius for never having a trouble with any of them... Or some of you just give up too easily and can't wait to blame somebody else.

>>608315
>It's absolutely one of the hardest to learn on your own
The only people who say that are people that have never tried. It's not any harder to learn than any other 3d software.
"Just try stuff!" doesn't work very well in ANY 3d program if you're an absolute beginner, all of them are esoteric, obtuse, and full of jargon; you're going to have to go through tutorials or courses or documentation to get anywhere with any of them.
Thankfully once you learn something, it's pretty interchangeable with any other software.

Blender's biggest problem is that 1) it has too many users, so there's an assload of terrible user made content and 2) the default settings for almost everything in it (World settings, render settings, camera settings, light settings, the default materials) are all just terrible and you MUST MUST MUST change them but the common rabble often don't and beginner tutorials don't have you change those things either (so that you aren't overwhelmed) so the output of beginners follow tutorials and beginners messing around is very low quality

>>608330
from what i can gather there is a difference between beginners of different 3D packages

people that work with maya/max pay more attention to topology and structure. i don't know if its because of tutorials or because they had formal education.
blender beginners typically make models with poor topology, they tend to try things that are not intuitive in their work (eg. modeling something easy using booleans or modeling characters with awful topology).
i think this is because most of the information regards blender is all over the place, you can't really find a good tutorial by just typing "blender tutorial" in youtube. i do my best to direct people to youtube channels that make good consistent content.

>608331
>people that work with maya/max pay more attention to topology and structure.

There are plenty of bad models on deviantart made in maya or 3dsmax or modo or zbrush, there are just more bad blender models because third worlders and children can download blender

>>608331
Lol, I don't defend anyone, but this is next level projecting right there.

>>608330
>It's not any harder to learn than any other 3d software.

I've learned both that, Maya, and Max. It's true what you say that most of what you learn is interchangable but holy hell was Blender confusing in its way of handling many things.

>>608326
I never "gave up", otherwise I wouldn't be able to talk about this at all.

>make a simple table in blender
>use cycles
>add a new material to it
>diffuse, choose color
>blender immediately crashes
Jesus fuck what is wrong with this program.

>>608930
Yeah, it totally sucks. I recommend you to delete it and never touch 3D ever again.

>>608937
Sure thing buddy! I guess blender crashing from the smallest things is a norm now.

>>608930
Reproduce, and submit the bug to the issue tracker.

If it’s critical, it’ll be solved in a few weeks tops.

>>608938
Just because you have some personal problem doesn't mean it happens to everyone, how many times do we need to get through this? There were times where Modo crashed on me just by opening my scene. Max also crashed for the stupidest reasons ever... So what? Shit like that happens to every program.

>>608930
>>608938
>Blender crashing from the smallest things is a norm now
I've been using Blender for 4 years now, and it has never crashed on me once.
Meanwhile, Maya 2018 crashes several times a week.

>>608978
Maya has a built-in crash system. It fills your history stack until it runs out memory and dies. It's by design.

>>608979
As expected from the industry standard.

>>608978

I always use Maya 2018 and it NEVER crashed on me. 2017 was a piece of crap tho.

>>601999

CGPeers. If you're such a moralfag that you'd rather use free crapware that would lead you nowhere that's your problem.

>>601954
>>608987
I actually hate you for how much you are willing to lie to people who want to get into 3D.

>there are better free alternatives to Blender
Come on now.

>>608991

I never said there was a better free alternative to blender. I said that as a broke person, you're better off cracking pro software than using free open source software that won't get you anywhere.

>>608987
>>608991
>>608996

you can get a free version from autodesk anyway just put in a fake name and school and get the student version you fucking idiots.

>>608985
You can't be using it much, then. It's extremely prone to crashing.

>>609000

I'm using it all day long and it never crashes.

>>608998

Free student versions are crap because of the watermark that will pop up if you send your fbx file to a client.

>>608996
> than using free open source software that won't get you anywhere.
Fuck you.

>There are many, many free or cheap, maybe more specialized but actually useful tools to make 3D.
Fuck you.

>>609005

Cry more Blendlet, go make me some guru-Green flavoured donuts, I'm hungry.

>>609013
I'm using Modo, you dipshit. Stop lying to people, let them use whatever they want. Blender is fine.

>>609015

Fuck you.

>>609001
you do know you can remove those student version pop ups right?

>>599557
You mean measurement units?
You can change those in the scene settings.

>>605624
>People will laugh at you for using a descriptive word for cutting an edgeloop

>>598911
I don't understand. You can change all of that shit and create the key bindings that matter to you.

>>599557
You can just change BU to whatever length you're modeling in you dummy.

STOP REPLYING TO THE TROLL

YOU STUPID FUCKING FAGGOTS

HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

I remapped every single hotkey in Blender, all the editors, the modal interactions, down to the file menus to work like a mix of Max and Maya.
I deleted every single redundant key and used the python manual to find functions that had no hotkey and added them in. It took almost a week and a half and I backed up the blend config file so I never have to do this process again. I don't understand what is so critical about Blender's default special snowflake UI/UX, is it just ego at this point?

>>599067
what the fuck am I reading

>>599067
Companies who want to stay in business carefully keep Blender and the Blender fanbois out of their workflow a reason.

>>609490
>Autism speaks.

>>609503
over your head noob?

>>609490
If true, did you upload it anywhere? Because your hard work would be greatly appreciated

>>609506
Not really. My brain has enough space for learning the hotkeys to different programs and doing context-switch when needed.

>>609521
This. Every program has a different controls and hotkeys anyway.