/3/ - 3DCG

>>363972
If you want to create characters you should study human anatomy and learn how to draw, then learn basic box modeling

>inb4 use zbrush and zremesher lel kekekekek

>>363975
Is the drawing a necessity? That is just one thing I can't seem to get right

>>363976
A lot of people here would say that is not a necessity, but if you want to create the characters from scratch it would really help you a lot, Im in a team of 5 making an animated short film, we've been working for months and everything is on drawings now, storyboards, character desing, animatic, props, everything.

>>363979
well for the time being I have friends who can do very good at character drawing but arent 3D modelers, is there like a basic guide on how to make 2D drawings into models?

>>363980
yes, if they can make you front and side views of the characters you can use image planes to make the models

>>363982
Alrighty thanks, one more thing. I've seen the image plane thing done with boxes and cylinders. Is there any advantages to having one over the other?

>>363983
in maya image planes are proyected with the camaras so you cant use a cylinders or boxes.

if you are talking about the modeling I've never seen anyone using cylinders to start, its always a box or a box with one smooth

>>363986
forgot pic

>>363986
Yeah I meant modeling, and alright thanks for the help. I'll see if my friend can draw me something to start with

>>363982
Holy sit that guy is packing some huge polygon

>>363993
lol 10/10 made me laugh

>>363975
whats wrong with zbrsh and zremesher? or repotoing it manually?

>>363975
Don't listen to this guy, he's giving you 8 year old workflow advice. If you're serious about modeling characters like in your picture, learn ZBrush. In fact, that model was made entirely in ZBrush.

Model quality and freedom should come first, then your optimized low poly base afterwards. Maya will never let you get that kind of fidelity without a shitload of passing textures through Photoshop and painting displacement maps, and even then, it's very tricky.

So to sum things up, learn ZBrush, practice sculpting in it, study detailed anatomy references, and now just retopo with ZRemesher and tweak the base mesh in Maya if needed.

>>363975

Base mesh first is out-dated. People with an amazing eye for silhouette and anatomy along with sculpting skills will be the ones that get ahead.

You can teach an artist to retop pretty quick. Can't teach a tech monkey to sculpt well.

>>364081
>Can't teach a tech monkey to sculpt well.

No, you definetly can. Even elephants can paint well, so why cant a monkey with an opposable thumb do zbrush?

>>363975

I love it that you tell him to study human anatomy and learn to draw, but then you suggest him to use box modelling, which is shit for creating 3D characters.

I'm so sorry for you if this is the workflow you use for work

>>364082

Those elephants that paint can just do a single shitty painting because they trained them for that, they can't create shit on their own.

Just like tech monkey who are still stucked with box modelling

>>364088
>Those elephants that paint can just do a single shitty painting because they trained them for that, they can't create shit on their own.

and artists cant create shit on their own w/o artistic direction by the AD. My point stands.

>>364093

do you even sculpt, bro?

>>364095
>ad hominem

>>364093
lol'd, you got point

>>364093
If artists can't create shit on their own, they aren't exactly artists, don't they?

Also, the AD can do the same thing with tech monkeys that still model with box modelling, so your point is moot

>>364100
>If artists can't create shit on their own, they aren't exactly artists, don't they?

art isnt exactly being made. its a business first and foremost that delivers a product. Monkeys could do it. Elephants already can. If you dont have any new points, I'll have to back away.

>>363982
if you need guides to make human anatomy then you're a pleb.

Learn your stuff or you won't even reach the major leagues, kiddo.

Also, lel @ box modelling

>>364103

It looks like you don't know shit about art then.

keep doing your shitty box modelling, pleb
Meanwhile I'll be earning top dollars with sculpts with real knowledge on fine arts.

>>364087
>>364081
>>364016

I can make models really fast on wings, then add details on zbrush, I don't have to do any retopo and it gives me complete controll over the mesh which makes rigging easier.

I like both box modeling and sculpting

>>364108
also he was asking about maya and im was not ging to tell him to change to another program

>>364108
>wings

what is fast for you? 6 hours to make a shitty human figure with using image planes?

I can do that without guides in less than 2 hours and then retopo it in just seconds.

Keep being delusional, you won't stay competitive in a few years, if not already

>>364111
>still shitty box modelling

You guys are real plebs.
No skills at all

Keep using those image planes, tech monkeys

>>364110
>6 hours
that was made in 1 hour and a half

>>364113
topology looks like shit
The chest is all screwed up

You didn't even finish the rest (head, hands)
I can do all this in less than 1 hour with dynamesh

>>364115
Its obviously not finished head is in another file. also "tech monkeys LEL " Everyone ignoring that I draw my own characters (I make my own image planes).

>>364118

>(I make my own image planes).

lel, real artists don't use image planes, you even waste time doing that shit instead of getting busy with the sculpt mesh because you have no knowledge to do anatomically correct sculpting.

But keep it that way, the only thing you'll get will be low-tier modelling job.

>>364121
>waste time
making a drawing that takes less thatn 5 minutes

>>364122
>>363982

yeah, you totally drew those planes yourself in 5 minutes.

pleb

>>364123
thats a practice, you know to make shit faster, I didn't draw those

>>364125

that's why you are still a pleb, you don't know shit about anatomy, you didn't even learned about proportions, muscles, bones.

You rely on image planes with drawing done by pros that do have a background on fine arts.

As I said, you're just a tech monkey

Keep being delusional

>>364128
>you didn't even learned about proportions, muscles, bones.

But I did I studied human anatomy.

didn't even learned lel

>>364130
>But I did I studied human anatomy.
>still using image planes with drawings done by others

>>364131
see
>>364125

Its a practice I'm making it to make models faster not to lean anatomy again

>>364132
>I'm making it to make models faster not to lean anatomy again

Copying an image plane is not learning anatomy, pleb.

If you really know your shit you won't even be using those, you'll do it from your head.

>>364133
Im not trying to learn anatomy with image planes you retard, I alredy know anatomy, why would I make a drawing If I dont need it.

>>364135
if you know anatomy then why the fuck you need an image plane for?

Why don't you do your shitty box modelling without those?

And even looking at your shitty topology, you still need more practice. You'll keep wasting time fixing your shit (chest) while I already finished mine with full retopology done.

This might be helpful
http://pinterest.com/characterdesigh/

>>364136
>why the fuck you need an image plane for?

Do you even read? its a practice, to make the 3d models faster, not to learn anatomy I dont need image planes made by others.

>you still need more practice.

really do you even read?

>>364141

>faster
>wasting 1,5 hour doing only the low poly base mesh body with a shitty topology and not counting hands and head.
>implying he knows anatomy and doesn't need image planes while he still need to practice doing his shitty box modelling using image planes.

>pleb

Even after you know anatomy and learn how to sculpt we always use some sort of guideline when creating characters, Image planes are not outdated at all and are the artist's only way to get aproximate measurements.

Just the same thing that non digital sculptors do when taking measurements, it helps a lot specially if your character has to look exactly like the concept you are given.

Dynamesh is awkward to work with in that regard, zspheres is a bit better for making a base mesh with correct proportions inside zbrush but nothing beats good old box modeling. You can shit out a character in 15 minutes with perfect sculpting geo and proportions just like the concept art.

>>364150

I don't give a shit if you use image planes or not, but don't be a guy that says "inb4 use zbrush and zremesher lel kekekekek" just because he doesn't know how to operate with a full zbrush workflow and says that you should study human anatomy when he clearly don't know it and make shitty topology as a base mesh that takes him hours to do.

His idea of a 3D character workflow is outdated as fuck and a lot of studios are switching to a full Zbrush workflow for characters without doing a base model with box modelling, such as ILM, Naughty Dogs among others.

http://pixologic.com/blog/2013/01/behind-the-scenes-with-ilm/

As said before, this is a business, and the VFX/game studios are looking to do faster and better work at a fraction of the time and having a lot of iterations as possible, which Zbrush can bring quickly with Dynamesh and Zremesher.

Box modelling is not efficient.

You can argue all you want that box modelling is great because that's the way you learned to do 3D modelling, but it doesn't change the fact that time's are changing and you need to adapt to stay competitive in the field.

>mfw it's 2013 and we still are using 90' techniques.

I am somewhat a decent artist, anyone know of some really awesome guides that helped them with zbrush?

(pic related its doodles)

>>364161
I said "inb4 use zbrush and zremesher lel kekekekek" because after zremesher was released every single question about topology was answered with SUBDIVIDE THEN ZREMESH!. you cant just let the softwere do everything for you

again implying that I dont know anatomy

Also I'm going to learn sculpting after im done with the short film its not like im going to just stay with box modeling, I will learn how to do both.

>>364162
i wouldn't say you're a somewhat decent artist. you're mediocre at best

>>364162
Jojos reference. 10/10

>>364165
asks for guides to start sculpting, YOU ARE MEDIOCRE. /3/.gif

>>364163
That's not letting the software do everything for you, that's doing things the most efficient way so you can focus on CREATING THE BEST MODEL POSSIBLE, not fiddling around with a base mesh for hours. ZRemesher will give you that base mesh, and then you can merely GoZ>Maya to quickly move some edges around for a couple minutes to optimize it and send straight back to ZBrush.

Your argument is like saying we shouldn't use weaving machines to create large textile sheets of fabric because it's "doing the work for you", no, it's getting rid of the tedious work that doesn't contribute to the result by having to do it manually, a thousand times longer.

>>364163
If you let >remesher to do all the work then the retopology is not production ready, you have to use polypaint and zremesher guides to optimize it further, you can even tweak the finished topology when you import the model to 3dsmax or whatever software you use.

It's waaay better than doing first a base mesh with box modelling and then import it to zbrush, you can switch subdivision levels quickly and modify the low mesh as you want without touching the topology.

See more here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVoFi2mnyhA

>>364167
he didnt need to upload a picture of his shitty drawings to ask a question. he obviously wanted praise

>>364169
>>364168

I will learn how to do sculpting and all that, I want to, it looks fun and all, but I need to learn box modeling first, I dont live in the us the industry is really small here, and a lot of work is done with freeware Blender/wings I wont be able to use zbrush all the time so I NEED to learn this shit.

The video game industry is also really small but its growing with mobile games and all that, and i dont think I will be making any game models with zbrush because I need to keep them as low poly as posible

>>364172
Perhaps that's best for you, but you saw OP use a highly detailed ZBrush sculpt as a starting picture, obviously what he wants to go for. So advising box modeling for that is silly, and even scoffing at the suggestion of ZBrush, when it was made with ZBrush.

>>364173
>So I'm in maya and have been modeling for about half a year now

I told him to go with box modeling because he is using maya not zbrush. but I kneww some people where going to give me shit for that thats why the "inb4 use zbrush and zremesher lel kekekekek" part

>>364174
Being in Maya is no excuse. You tell a person what they need to know to create the result they are after. He probably pirated Maya anyways, so he can pirate ZBrush. ZBrush and Maya are generally used together.

I dont see what the whole basemesh shit flinging is all about.

It takes me the same amount of time to create a basemesh in maya with box modeling as it takes me in zbrush with zspheres. I prefer box modeling because fuck you I like the precision it gives. Starting with planes gives a much better result for most people (this is the way both traditional sculptors and a lot of artists begin the figure studies and drawings,simple geometrical shapes and planes to give form.) see:Eliot Goldfinger.

I think we might have different ideas of a basemesh. it should be the basic shape of the object you wish to sculpt with zbrush happy topology, something you can do in 15 to 30 minutes, very very basic not a mesh you have to "tweak for hours". Specially because you really only have to do it once for each different model and then reuse it and tweak proportions in 5 minutes.

ZRemesh sounds very good and might be good for both retopo and creating a workable basemesh from either zspheres or dynamesh (or both).

>>364191
>It takes me the same amount of time to create a basemesh in maya with box modeling as it takes me in zbrush with zspheres

>>364191
this

If you spend more than 1 hour on a base mesh, then you are doing it wrong. Time is money

>>364191

if you want to go faster you can just use the pre made figures that comes with zbrush and modify them as you wish. That'll take even less time than doing the base mesh with box modelling.

>>364199
You can create a Zsphere base to sculpt on in less than 2 minutes.

But why would you even remake a human base mesh every time? You make one base and use that to sculpt on each time if you are going a full character production. If you're just doing some concepting, you start right from a dynamesh sphere, get right into it.

>>363976
Yes it is. To make anything look good and to work at any kind of speed, you need to know how the body works, how the muscles fit together. Drawing ensures that you know it. I had a 3D professor who wouldn't let us touch a program until we had drawn orthos and a 3/4 view.

>>364357
>I had a 3D professor who wouldn't let us touch a program until we had drawn orthos and a 3/4 view.

so hes a teacher and not in the industry. That makes sense. Hes telling you lies.